Internet Goes on Strike - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 19 Old Jan 18th, 2012, 12:06 am Thread Starter
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Arrow Internet Goes on Strike

I understand the SOPA and PIPA bills before congress is a very bad thing. But why is this site shutting down? This site is for members only and most of us pay to play here.

Is Amazon or Google going to go black? How about GM or Ford... Ebay???
If the super big companies don't go dark whats the point?

Please explain...

Tvguy
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post #2 of 19 Old Jan 18th, 2012, 1:13 am
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Re: Internet Goes on Strike

I don't have the explanation..just know its signs of the times..something they call, FEAR.

.......No Fear Here

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post #3 of 19 Old Jan 18th, 2012, 7:38 pm
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Re: Internet Goes on Strike

Quote:
Originally Posted by tvguy
I understand the SOPA and PIPA bills before congress is a very bad thing. But why is this site shutting down? This site is for members only and most of us pay to play here.

Is Amazon or Google going to go black? How about GM or Ford... Ebay???
If the super big companies don't go dark whats the point?

Please explain...
Mobile access seems to be OK - but will I now be censored for posting this during the blackout - am I now a scab for "crossing the picket line?"

I'm all for the protest against SOPA and we all do it our own way, bit IMHO the blackout on this "community" site should have been a "community" descision.

(You can also disable Java Script in your browser to get past this, and other, redirect screens...)

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post #4 of 19 Old Jan 18th, 2012, 7:51 pm
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Re: Internet Goes on Strike

Tirade deleted..


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post #5 of 19 Old Jan 18th, 2012, 8:25 pm
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Re: Internet Goes on Strike

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPSpen
Tirade deleted..


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post #6 of 19 Old Jan 18th, 2012, 8:41 pm
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Re: Internet Goes on Strike

We struggled with the issue. The concern we have is that either act as written could severely impact our ability to operate a public forum, whether paid or not. The risks to our community are great if the legislation is passed in its current form. The owners of the community could be held liable for any copyright infringement posted by any participating member of the community. While we do a fairly good job at policing our site, there is still the possibility that a member participating in our forums could post copyrighted material without our knowledge and by doing so jeopardize the very existence of the community. Further, if the legislation is passed in its current form, we will be forced to drastically change our methods of operation, making it necessary for us to moderate every single attachment or upload to our community. Since we wouldn’t have the manpower to monitor everything, we might have to disable our file repository and photo gallery.

While we are making a “political” statement, it is only out of a desire to keep our community and others like it free from the threat of frivolous actions by entities under the guise of copyright protection. Though the legislation is targeted at foreign websites offering downloads of materials in violation of US copyright, the actual wording of proposed legislation is far broader in scope than just foreign websites. Since our community has some support by advertising we could fall under the provisions of either bill seeking remedy for alleged distribution of copyrighted materials. SOPA defines a "foreign infringing site" as any site that is "committing or facilitating" copyright infringement, whereas PIPA is limited to sites with "no significant use other than" copyright infringement. Neither piece of legislation does enough to protect our community and others like it from having to defend ourselves against the mere accusation of violation. We do not have the resources to defend ourselves from legal actions, so our only choice would be to more tightly control what our members may post to the website, inhibiting the free flow of information and subjecting the site owners to greater legal risks. We have already been informed that it would be “nearly impossible” to acquire an insurance policy to protect the site owners from such legal actions. The only option would be to isolate the communities from the owners through corporate and legal means, both of which are simply too expensive for us under our current limited funding. In recent years our revenue has barely met or fallen short of the costs of maintaining this community.

We fully support the intent of this legislation, but just as we witnessed with the Digital Millenium Act, legislation with good intent that is too broadly written can impact even innocent individuals. This blackout, joined by many thousands of other communities is simply an effort to raise awareness of the many communities who might be affected by passage of either of these acts. We hope that our membership will be awakened to realize the impact that such legislation may have on any community that allows member contribution of material which may be covered by copyright, and join us in efforts to get the legislation more tightly focused to the problem, with sufficient safeguards to prevent small web communities from being exposed to unreasonable risk.

Randy Prade
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Last edited by Randy; Jan 18th, 2012 at 8:50 pm.
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post #7 of 19 Old Jan 18th, 2012, 9:03 pm
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Re: Internet Goes on Strike

I completely agree and support the discission to make a statement regarding these clearly repressive bills. Unintended consequences of these bills are enormous and could and most probably would be used in ways the writer never considered.

The irony of the SOPA bill is that Lamar Smith( Texas), author of the Stop Online Piracy Act actually could one of the first people breaking the law. His WEB page has a photo background that he failed to get permission to use. One complaint and his internet provider would have had to shutdown his site.
http://venturebeat.com/2012/01/14/so...ngement-claim/

Hope you all consider sending an email, calling or writing to your representative in congress to express your position on both bills. (even you guys in Texas)

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post #8 of 19 Old Jan 18th, 2012, 9:31 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Internet Goes on Strike

It was good to see sites offline today. I did send my senator the dumb ass Harry Reid a protest email urging that this bill be dropped.
After a little review I am to understand that Disney and other movie companies are behind this bill so they can try to screw with every website in the country.

Tvguy
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post #9 of 19 Old Jan 18th, 2012, 10:17 pm
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Re: Internet Goes on Strike

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveDragon
Guess where all of the DRM breaking software as well as the file sharing software came from, and who provided it???

http://youtu.be/WJIuYgIvKsc
Great video...! Thanks for sharing...

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post #10 of 19 Old Jan 19th, 2012, 6:44 am
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Re: Internet Goes on Strike

I appreciate the site Ops decision to black out the site. Though I was disappointed I couldn't get my fix of BMWLT banter. If bills like SOPA and PIPA pass we could be looking at a far greater loss than just access to our favorite web site for a few hours.

Randy you did an excellent job summarizing why this issue is important to the users and owners of this site and the many small community sites across the Internet.

Thanks

-Preston

-Preston
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post #11 of 19 Old Jan 19th, 2012, 7:25 am
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Re: Internet Goes on Strike

+1

Good show Randy. I'm glad we were down to show our support!


Quote:
Originally Posted by palarimer
I appreciate the site Ops decision to black out the site. Though I was disappointed I couldn't get my fix of BMWLT banter. If bills like SOPA and PIPA pass we could be looking at a far greater loss than just access to our favorite web site for a few hours.

Randy you did an excellent job summarizing why this issue is important to the users and owners of this site and the many small community sites across the Internet.

Thanks

-Preston

Brad

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post #12 of 19 Old Jan 19th, 2012, 7:37 am
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Re: Internet Goes on Strike

http://www.thewrap.com/media/column-...ver-sopa-34547

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post #13 of 19 Old Jan 19th, 2012, 11:19 am
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Re: Internet Goes on Strike

The thought that one of our members could be imprisoned and our site could be shut down due to a video link or a video posted that contains copyrighted material (background music for a ride video), is enough for me.

Any proposed legislation has to protect us from the crusaders. Intent to infringe and focus on the distributor are key here and due process is the cornerstone. "Protection" like SOPA and PIPA we DO NOT NEED!!!!

Thanks, Randy.

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post #14 of 19 Old Jan 19th, 2012, 1:45 pm
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Re: Internet Goes on Strike

I always find that a good example of letting the "Government" get away with a vague law is the 16th Amendment allowing taxation. Very vague and has allowed Congress to play fast and loose with what is an "income" since it was written. If it had been written as a amendment with exact definitions of what it meant then our Tax code would only be a page or 2 long instead of the mass of complicated rules it is now.
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post #15 of 19 Old Jan 19th, 2012, 3:20 pm
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Re: Internet Goes on Strike

Personally, I was glad to see that the operators of this site shut it down for the day. Sure got everyone's attention didn't it?

There is WAY to much gov interference in our everyday lives, we don't need big brother adding more control over us via the internet! At least IMHO!
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post #16 of 19 Old Jan 19th, 2012, 11:06 pm
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Talking Re: Internet Goes on Strike

I tried to be smarter than the average bear and entered www.bmwlt.com/default.html to see if I could circumvent the "Dark" page.
What I got in return was so funny I had to share with my friends at work...
Good show Randy!

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post #17 of 19 Old Jan 20th, 2012, 10:52 am
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Re: Internet Goes on Strike

SOPA is not the answer, and I certainly I do not know what is. I applaud this sites protest, but there needs to be an answer for sites like Rip Off Report which ruined a friends business when a former (fired) employee started posting untruths on Rip Off Report. The web site is totally immune under current law. But, they will hide the offending posts if you pay them enough money. So----to get it straight, they allow anyone who so desires to post anonymous lies and then charge (blackmail) the victim thousand of dollars to clean it up!

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post #18 of 19 Old Jan 20th, 2012, 8:43 pm
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Re: Internet Goes on Strike

Yeah, this attempt was pretty overwhelmingly underthought.

But, sure wish some group could come up with ways to make the Web what we almost all want it to be. Basically what it is now, without the piracy, spam, viruses, trojans, and other rip offs.

There was a group of professional computer experts on a show I saw about three years ago, and they all agreed that with just a few changes in the heirarchy of the way it all works it could be made so that spam, and most hacking would be easily traceable to the source, which would just about stop most of the problems. It is just too easy for the perpetrators to stay hidden now. I would love to see the Internet configured so that NO ONE could use it without being easily identified if needed.

If you feel otherwise, then maybe you are one the rest of us need protection from.

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post #19 of 19 Old Jan 21st, 2012, 3:28 pm
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Re: Internet Goes on Strike

Here is a more rational view of what piracy actually costs the US.

http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/how-c...-con-congress/

Certainly there are costs to piracy, but the cost to the copyright holders is much less than commonly stated and piracy would still exist outside our borders. Couple that with the fact that the money "pirates" save on downloads, probably still enters the economy on other goods.

I also read of a huge move by federal prosecutors breaking up a piracy ring using current laws:

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/...aring-website/

Giving the fed the right to cut off funding of sites like this through PayPal, without due process is just wrong headed. There is likely plenty of teeth in current copyright laws, without expanding the government's reach to shut down social forums with unintentional pointers to illegal sites.

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