Asking for Social Sec No during traffic stop? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 169 Old Mar 13th, 2006, 1:30 pm Thread Starter
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Asking for Social Sec No during traffic stop?

At my performance award (84 in a 70) something odd happened: Despite the fact that EVERYTHING with our papers was in order, bill of sale, temporary registration, drivers license, insurance, in short everything in LEO continued to ask questions. And then something that really struck us odd. He wanted to see my passengers drivers license and even our social security numbers.

Maybe some of our LEO members can weigh in here, or someone who knows? Was this officer still within his rights? What could have prompted that kind of behaviour? Especially since I am not aware that either Lanette nor I made any threatening or otherwise dumb moves. Despite the fact that the question "What do you need my socsec number for?" was on the tip of my tongue I bit it and provided the info, thinking to myself "I'm gonna find out about that one later"

Anybody in the know?

Andreas Pleschutznig
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post #2 of 169 Old Mar 13th, 2006, 1:38 pm
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The easiest was to perform a warrant and criminal backround check on the state and federal crime computers is through the use of the SS number. You can do the check by name, but that often comes up with multiple hits and requires a lot of additional checking. The SS# is unique. As far as the officer being within his rights to ask for the number, the courts have ruled they can ask anything they want. Whether or not you are required to answer is another matter. My guess is he was fishing.

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post #3 of 169 Old Mar 13th, 2006, 1:44 pm
 
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Heck Andy - that one's easy. It's way easier to check you SS# than it is to try and spell your name .ROFL
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post #4 of 169 Old Mar 13th, 2006, 1:53 pm Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jorawro
Heck Andy - that one's easy. It's way easier to check you SS# than it is to try and spell your name .ROFL
Hey, he had my drivers license in his hands! No need to ask me to spell my name. But that still does not answer what he wanted from my passenger?

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post #5 of 169 Old Mar 13th, 2006, 2:08 pm
 
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post #6 of 169 Old Mar 13th, 2006, 2:15 pm
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If you were pulling someone over wouldnt you want to know who you where talking to and make sure it wasnt some cop killer or murderer? Every time these guys get out of their car there is a possiblility they might not make it home to their families because of the danger. So the more accurate information he can get and the faster he can get it, not only speeds up yours and his time, but also helps protect his life. Everything you mentioned in your post sounds perfectly normal to me. Is it an inconveinence? Yes...but so is me having to take off my shoes and undress everytime I have to go on a flight, but dont get me started on the perpetuation of government regulation.

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post #7 of 169 Old Mar 13th, 2006, 2:24 pm
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I don't know if asking for the additional information was within his rights though I suspect it was, even if it was unusual. I've been able to talk LEOs down some by being extremely polite and courteous, usually calling them sir and answering whatever they asked, but also stating my case clearly and without any tone or indication of confrontation. It shows that I respect their position and authority, but also that I am intelligent and aware of the entire situation.

But the bottom line is that while you're at the side of the road, the LEO is in charge. Sometimes they may come with an attitude, or at least preconceptions, but realize that every traffic stops can be a risk to their life, and also that they have much more power to ruin your day than you do theirs. Most LEOs know this and act professionally, but some get into a bit of a power trip. If that is the case, you're sure not gonna fix it during a traffic stop, so just go with the flow and be as helpful as you can.

Then bitch about it later to your friends.

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post #8 of 169 Old Mar 13th, 2006, 3:22 pm
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Andy, have you ever tried to type your name. A 9 digit SSN is orders of magnitude easier. LOL!!!

Was this LEO in Texas? If so, I don't know why he'd want your SSN, since your SSN is part of your data which is keyed on your DL#. So any Texas police officer has your SSN just by having your DL#.


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post #9 of 169 Old Mar 13th, 2006, 3:53 pm
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meese that is great advise.

Also, I would ask for the ss# even if it was on the card to verify/crosscheck for a fake DL, which is a huge problem, also I don't know about TX but in Arkansas you can choose SSN or not as your DL number.

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post #10 of 169 Old Mar 13th, 2006, 4:40 pm
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
...I've been able to talk LEOs down some by being extremely polite and courteous, usually calling them sir and answering whatever they asked, but also stating my case clearly and without any tone or indication of confrontation. It shows that I respect their position and authority, but also that I am intelligent and aware of the entire situation.
I think that's good advise, and that's how I behave when being "harrassed" by Mr. Pokey. (Couldn't resist!)

Odd as it may seem, however, the only two times I was ever let go with a warning is when I was rude, loud, inappreciative, and obnoxious. Go figure!
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post #11 of 169 Old Mar 13th, 2006, 4:43 pm
 
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We all know he cannot require you to give him your SSN. But if we as a society don't refuse comply with these things it will some day be the law..

The ONLY thing he could ask your passenger for is a valid ID not a drivers license, I carry an ID just for that purpose, in town I used to get asked for my military id when buying something with a check... I'd say no and ask them why they didn't ask the person in front of me for a military id and they'd say well, he was military so he showed us his drivers license, I'd smile and hand them my drivers license..............Regards Pete
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post #12 of 169 Old Mar 13th, 2006, 4:51 pm
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Originally Posted by messenger13
I think that's good advise, and that's how I behave when being "harrassed" by Mr. Pokey. (Couldn't resist!)

Odd as it may seem, however, the only two times I was ever let go with a warning is when I was rude, loud, inappreciative, and obnoxious. Go figure!
So your normal demeanor works for you then?

Sometimes you can talk your way out of it, sometimes you get a reduced ticket and some respect back from the officer, and sometimes you just take what you get. Once you're pulled over it's all up to the LEO, but your attitude and response can usually help or hinder your case.

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post #13 of 169 Old Mar 13th, 2006, 4:54 pm
 
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So your normal demeanor works for you then?
Sometimes you just hafta stick with what you know.

(BTW...Your boots are on their way. You should see them Friday.)
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post #14 of 169 Old Mar 13th, 2006, 4:55 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
I don't know if asking for the additional information was within his rights though I suspect it was, even if it was unusual. I've been able to talk LEOs down some by being extremely polite and courteous, usually calling them sir and answering whatever they asked, but also stating my case clearly and without any tone or indication of confrontation. It shows that I respect their position and authority, but also that I am intelligent and aware of the entire situation.

But the bottom line is that while you're at the side of the road, the LEO is in charge. Sometimes they may come with an attitude, or at least preconceptions, but realize that every traffic stops can be a risk to their life, and also that they have much more power to ruin your day than you do theirs. Most LEOs know this and act professionally, but some get into a bit of a power trip. If that is the case, you're sure not gonna fix it during a traffic stop, so just go with the flow and be as helpful as you can.

Then bitch about it later to your friends.
Hey Ken, did you read the piece in Moto Consumer News about getting pulled over and leaving with naught but a warning? The feller says to get off the bike, keeping your hands in plain view, face the officer, take off your helmet, bend over and put it at your feet. Psychologically, you're bowing to him and showing subservience.



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post #15 of 169 Old Mar 13th, 2006, 4:56 pm
 
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... take off your helmet, bend over and put it at your feet. Psychologically, you're bowing to him and showing subservience.
Not if you're facing away from him!!!
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post #16 of 169 Old Mar 13th, 2006, 4:57 pm Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eljeffe
Andy, have you ever tried to type your name. A 9 digit SSN is orders of magnitude easier. LOL!!!

Was this LEO in Texas? If so, I don't know why he'd want your SSN, since your SSN is part of your data which is keyed on your DL#. So any Texas police officer has your SSN just by having your DL#.
No, this LEO was in CA on the way from Anderson to SAC. And wether my name is hard to spell or not, that is not the issue.

And heck yeah, I have tried to type my name. I find that this is not a problem whatsoever.

Andreas Pleschutznig
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post #17 of 169 Old Mar 13th, 2006, 5:46 pm
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SS# Number Request

Andy:

My first question would be how old was this officer? Often times Rookie officers fresh out of the academy haven't refined their traffic stop skills down to where they feel comfortable with the information provided. Some Officers do in fact overdue it. But often times the people who are stopped aren't aware of things the officer is. The police might be looking for a green Chevy Blazer with with a man who just punched out Burger Boy at the drive-up for getting his order wrong... you can bet if your driving a green Blazer in the area your probably going to get stopped and questioned extensively.

Requesting the SS# isn't unusual, in fact some states VT included would like it on their traffic tickets along with your home phone number. Yes... that generally spikes Hubby's interest when he finds out "the cop wanted your phone number".

I'd have to say that its not common practice to ask for the SS# on the passengers unless they are looking for something specific. If not he was just fishing.
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post #18 of 169 Old Mar 13th, 2006, 6:05 pm
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I'll sound like a cop basher when I say this, especially coupled with my post about the LEO running over the biker last night, but I assure you I am not. Matter of fact, I did the LEO thing for a few years 20 years ago before I decided it wasn't for me. Long story.

Anyway...

there is no legal requirement to carry your social security card. and, gee, guess what, I've got a shitty memory. Sorry, officer, I don't remember the number. It's pretty long - what is it, 9 or 11 digits? Shucks, I was never good with math.

some states (Illinois) won't *give* you a drivers license without you first showing your original SS card. GO figure.
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post #19 of 169 Old Mar 13th, 2006, 6:06 pm
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Like wise, unless he's contributing to my retirement, he ain't getting my SSN. Got called out this past Sunday morn at 0130, took a sort cut through the 'hood trying to save a couple of minutes and got pulled, says I ran a red light, no red light that time of morning, they are all flashing yellow. Wrote me a ticket for running a red light after playing his silly games. Anyone out at 0130 is either up to no good or on business and I figure it should be fairly easy to figure that out. Driving a company truck, in uniform, no evidence of alchohol, etc. He wanted my SSN and home phone number to put on the ticket he had written out, saw there was no way out of the ticket so told him I was refusing any information other than what he had/needed. Guess I'll see him in court.
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post #20 of 169 Old Mar 13th, 2006, 6:31 pm
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Yeah, I saw that. I prefer to let them approach me, still with hands in plain sight, bike off, and helmet flipped up. Somehow I don't think that getting off the bike and heading towards the patrol car is usually a good idea unless invited. I'll also wait until asked then tell him I'm reaching for my wallet in my jacket pocket, and that the registration and insurance is in the side bag. Then I'll retrieve those items slowly and in plain sight. I've had lots of chances to develop my system, which isn't necessarily a good thing.

But I guess "bowing" can be considered subservient regardless of which direction you're facing. Might be asking for a slightly different outcome though.

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post #21 of 169 Old Mar 13th, 2006, 6:35 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danbrew
some states (Illinois) won't *give* you a drivers license without you first showing your original SS card.
Maybe it's to establish citizenship or residency? Not that that matters much in California . . .

And I don't think you're a cop basher. But there does need to be certain limits, especially to those who hold some power over others. However, the side of the road just isn't the best place to argue for them.

Ken
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post #22 of 169 Old Mar 13th, 2006, 6:41 pm
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Are you saying Ken bought something from you? Wow; that's ammunition you can use for a loooooong time, Joe.

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post #23 of 169 Old Mar 13th, 2006, 6:43 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
...Odd as it may seem, however, the only two times I was ever let go with a warning is when I was rude, loud, inappreciative, and obnoxious. Go figure!
You've only been stopped twice?

KIDDING!!

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post #24 of 169 Old Mar 13th, 2006, 6:52 pm
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Who carries their ssn cards with them?

I did not even have a card for about 40 years. I had a number, but the card?
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post #25 of 169 Old Mar 13th, 2006, 6:55 pm
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Nah, it was a fair trade. Guess I should box up his intercom though.

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Why box up his intercom? You been putting off all these other motorcycle related task.

Good luck Joe, he never mentioned getting it to UPS.

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post #27 of 169 Old Mar 13th, 2006, 7:25 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
Yeah, I saw that. I prefer to let them approach me, still with hands in plain sight, bike off, and helmet flipped up. Somehow I don't think that getting off the bike and heading towards the patrol car is usually a good idea unless invited. I'll also wait until asked then tell him I'm reaching for my wallet in my jacket pocket, and that the registration and insurance is in the side bag. Then I'll retrieve those items slowly and in plain sight. I've had lots of chances to develop my system, which isn't necessarily a good thing.
My last ticket was in Oct. of '05. When stopped and still sitting, I flipped up my helmet, grabbed my liscense from my wallet plus the reg. & ins. card both Velcroed inside the oddments box. It took him about three minutes to return with the 75 in a 65 ticket. He spoke six words, "Liscense, registration and insurance card, please" and then another three words "Please sign here". I spoke one word "Thankyou" when leaving. I think he made about $20. a word for the Roseville, Ca. courts. There was really no time to explain or quell anything or give him any excuse. There was no time for him to see that I was being polite. I had no opportunity to do anything except sign and skedaddle.

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post #28 of 169 Old Mar 13th, 2006, 7:55 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy
At my performance award (84 in a 70) something odd happened: Despite the fact that EVERYTHING with our papers was in order, bill of sale, temporary registration, drivers license, insurance, in short everything in LEO continued to ask questions. And then something that really struck us odd. He wanted to see my passengers drivers license and even our social security numbers.

Maybe some of our LEO members can weigh in here, or someone who knows? Was this officer still within his rights? What could have prompted that kind of behaviour? Especially since I am not aware that either Lanette nor I made any threatening or otherwise dumb moves. Despite the fact that the question "What do you need my socsec number for?" was on the tip of my tongue I bit it and provided the info, thinking to myself "I'm gonna find out about that one later"

Anybody in the know?
Do not know why you went through all that. The only reason I would ask for someone's SSN is to see if they are telling the truth. They had no picture ID and we are playing the name game. Example is what is your birthday and then ask how old??? You would not believe how many I have taken to jail because the lied about their name. What I find usuall is that you had all the paper work. Like someone stated, could've been a rookie.
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post #29 of 169 Old Mar 13th, 2006, 8:37 pm
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But you had your helmet up and paperwork ready, so you're ahead of the curve already. A quick "Yes, sir" wouldn't have hurt, but might not have made any difference, either. Sometimes you just gotta sign on the line and sort it out later.

Ken
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post #30 of 169 Old Mar 13th, 2006, 8:54 pm
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If the LEO stops me, it must be for a specific reason. He must tell you the reason he stopped you if it was for a traffic violation. If he doesn't, you have the right to ask in a professional manner why he stopped you. He then is required to inform you why.

If you respond to his questions with license, insurance and registration, he can run it right there to verify it. There is no need to ask for SS#. It is an invasion of privacy and none of his business. SS#'s are not a requirement for proff of anything since they are readily availabe from anywhere if you really need it. I can't recall any law or requirement to give out SS# to a LEO.

The next thing they will ask for is a passport. But there again, maybe we need a national ID card.

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post #31 of 169 Old Mar 13th, 2006, 9:20 pm
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Question

Hi , things may have changed senses 9-11 , but my S.S.card say's It's Not For Identification . ...Patric ...

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post #32 of 169 Old Mar 13th, 2006, 9:44 pm
 
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Which right?

The Officer has the right to ask you anyting he wants. He can ask to search your vehicle or search you or your passenger. Its your business if you comply or not. SS#s and home phone numbers are requested in NC. They are not required . A citation is a request to come to court and is a courtesy in misdemenor cases. So he could be taking you to a magistrate to post a bond unless the offence is an infraction. Yes I know it doesnt seem like a courtesy at the time. By the way, dont come back to the car, Ill call you back when Im ready. The polite thing almost always works with me. I really like when someone demands my name. I always give it to them on a pink piece of paper. The names on the uniform if you really want it. when you think you have been treated unfairly contact the Internal Affairs Division of the Depertment or the Officers supervisor. Whining in a forum wont help you at all. Some people just seem to have more trouble with citations than others. Could it be that they operate motor vehicles poorly or overly aggressive?
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post #33 of 169 Old Mar 13th, 2006, 11:28 pm
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A police office can not search your car without your permission unless: he has probale cause that a something is wrong...Drug case of marijuana is a example of this. But without probable cause he can not search your car. A speeding ticket is not probable cause or is a normal traffic violation. If you become defensive and resist to follow instructions of getting out of the car, doing the normal roadside sobriety tests, he can arrest you and look for alcohol, then if he come up with something it can be used becasue he has arrestede oyu on a felony.

But just stopping you and asking you to look in the car would constitute illegle search and would not stand up in court.

O. K. Upchurch III
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post #34 of 169 Old Mar 14th, 2006, 1:13 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OKUIII
He then is required to inform you why.
I'm curious, would you cite your source for that requirement?

Tom Lashbrook
Napa, CA
Minden, NV

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post #35 of 169 Old Mar 14th, 2006, 1:39 am
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It was an interesting thread. from what I can read, there is a difference between "asking" and the requirement to answer. The problem for the average joe is knowing that difference. if you make a mistake, the peace officer can easily ruin the rest of your day.

if one then finds out later, you feel taken advantage of.

Don
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post #36 of 169 Old Mar 14th, 2006, 5:48 am
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Do you know how easy it is to get probable cause???? You start making movements to the glove box or under the seat, I have probable cause to search for drugs, weapons....... So go ahead and piss off the police.
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post #37 of 169 Old Mar 14th, 2006, 5:51 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OKUIII
A police office can not search your car without your permission unless: he has probale cause that a something is wrong...Drug case of marijuana is a example of this. But without probable cause he can not search your car. A speeding ticket is not probable cause or is a normal traffic violation. If you become defensive and resist to follow instructions of getting out of the car, doing the normal roadside sobriety tests, he can arrest you and look for alcohol, then if he come up with something it can be used becasue he has arrestede oyu on a felony.

But just stopping you and asking you to look in the car would constitute illegle search and would not stand up in court.

An officer can walk to you an ASK to search you. You have a right to say no. Just like in a vehicle. You have a right to search no, but then he can keep you there and call a K-9 to do the search. And in most states a K-9 that hits on a vehicle is probable cause to search. Just becareful tring to beat the system.
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post #38 of 169 Old Mar 14th, 2006, 2:51 pm
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I believe the officer has to have a probable cause to perform any search of your person or you car. This may be a pissing off point for some but we do not live in a society where officers of the law can use that power or influence to search or do whatever they feel they want. I agree that failure to let them search you or your car is probably not wise, but it is certainly within your rights if you have not been stopped for anything other than a normal traffice violation. They can't hold you there and send for a K-9 unit without cause. I'm sorry. I disagree with your interpretation of the law.

There is no probable cause to search unless you see drug items or smell marijuana or other substances. But this whole issue started off with the rights of public citizens to have to show SS#'s for normal traffic violations. You can not use SS#'s for identification except for employement. Even at that, employers would like to see birth certificates or passports.

O. K. Upchurch III
Irvine, California

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post #39 of 169 Old Mar 14th, 2006, 2:55 pm
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More arrests are made from normal traffic stops. Most officers don't get probable cause right of way. They do, however, get reasonable suspicion. If I were to make a traffic stop and the violator acts different than normal violators, my suspicion becomes aroused. I will ask a few questions and see what the answers are. I'll see if proabable cause develops.

Regarding Andy's situation, the officer most likely saw something he didn't like. If was on his ride home with the new bike, it may have been Texas Driver's License, Texas Ins, but California bill of sale.

Mike
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post #40 of 169 Old Mar 14th, 2006, 3:16 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikerd400
Regarding Andy's situation, the officer most likely saw something he didn't like. If was on his ride home with the new bike, it may have been Texas Driver's License, Texas Ins, but California bill of sale.

And that is illegal? Buying a bike in CA and living in TX? That is enough case not only to harrass the driver, but also the passenger? And treat us like criminals?


Please understand where I am coming from: I have the GREATEST respect for LEO's in general and I appreciate the service we (as in society) are getting from them.

Just this particular officer in my opinion overstepped his boundaries in terms of tone, how he handled the situation, asking my passenger (who had absolutely nothing to do with my alleged traffic violation) for id and SSN.

Andreas Pleschutznig
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post #41 of 169 Old Mar 14th, 2006, 3:22 pm
 
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Searches

There are a couple ways to search a vehicle or person...
Voluntary Consent
Search Incident to Arrest
Search Warrant issued for Probable Cause. What is probable cause? Those facts and circumstatnces that woould lead a reasonable person to believe that a crime ha been commited and the suspect comitted the crime.
Voluntary Consent gets more people in trouble than either of the other two combined.
As motorman said, probable cause in a vehicle stop is not as difficlult as one might think, the Supreme Court has rulled that because you are dealing with a method of escape you can keep the vehicle and person secure for protection or the issuence of a searcch warrant in certain situations.
A search incident to arrest allows the Officer to search the lunge area of the vehicle and the person one he or she is arrested. You can be arreste for most traffic offences.
May not be what you wanted to here but thats my understanding of how things work.
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post #42 of 169 Old Mar 14th, 2006, 4:19 pm
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Andy -

Just curious - and forgive me if you have already stated this, but exactly how did you get the ticket? You said it was written for 84 in a 70, but how did the officer catch you - blind corner, over a rise, hiding on an on-ramp, pacing you, etc...

Ted

Camarillo, CA
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post #43 of 169 Old Mar 14th, 2006, 5:49 pm
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My experience w/ the CHP has been that even when speeding, slowing down upon seeing them will usually (not always!) save getting the ticket. In other words, if the officer knows that you see him - and that you are paying attention - and adjust your speed accordingly they'll let it slide (given that you're not being reckless otherwise).

I'm just guessing here, but since you didn't slow down, he either figured you were not "paying attention" or worse - were just ignoring him.

I know that wasn't your intention, but perhaps that is how the officer interpreted it and set the tone for everything that followed.

Ted

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post #44 of 169 Old Mar 14th, 2006, 6:05 pm
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I don't know how many LEO's that are in the US, but it is a large number. Within that large number, there will always be a few jerks. I've had bad witers/waitresses, nurses, sales people, so no matter what job there are the few that can make that profession look bad.

I was stopped by a fellow CHP officer about 6 years ago. I never ID'd myself and I thought he was an ass. He was not a liar or anything. He just was not a people person, and his choice of words sucked.

There are many more good cops that "bad" cops.

Mike
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post #45 of 169 Old Mar 14th, 2006, 6:08 pm
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This is all crap

I am driving down the road and ok so I am speeding or I don't signal when changing lanes. It has gotten ridiculous that we are all treated like criminals. I think alot of it is that people in law enforcement do think differently than most people. They are trained and it is there job to find the "bad people in society". They find ways to have the laws written so that they can infringe on our rights. For instance, I just read an article this week about some town where the cops are stopping motorists and giving them a good citation because the officer saw them do something good while driving. This is just another way for them to check you. I am going to be damned pissed if some cop stops me for no good reason. Bottom line is you have no rights anymore and law enforcement has all the rights to protect people from themselves.
Sorry, sometimes I wish for the America I grew up in.
I could go on forever but it just pisses some people off.

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post #46 of 169 Old Mar 14th, 2006, 6:45 pm
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Mike -

Thanks - actually, all of my "experiences" have been positive (other than the actual receipt of the ticket!) No officer has ever been verbally abusive or overstepped their authority with me. Of course, I always stay in my vehicle until the officer approaches, keep both hands on top of the steering wheel until asked to produce id (never been stopped while on a bike) , and say "yes sir" / "no sir".

You guys have enough pressure and have to operate by "rules" which when dealing with "real criminals" actually put you at a disadvantage - so whatever the number of "bad" cops is - I'm sure it's far less than other less stressful professions.

I'm sorry Andy got his ticket, but everyone should try to look at things from the officer's perspective.

Ted

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post #47 of 169 Old Mar 14th, 2006, 6:55 pm
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Wow! I thought I had answered your question about why the officer asked for you and your passengers SS#s etc. Then the rest chimed in. If the answers here are typical of the rest of America's then we are a country very disappointed with it's law enforcement. A country, also, that views law enforcement through the eyes of television with no understanding of what probable cause is, what is necesary to get a search warrant and what "rights (careful, follow the bill of rights and the constitution carefully)" are. The rules change constantly in the courts and therefore on the street for the cops (thats 'Constable on Patrol', or short for the Brittish slang. 'Coppers', for the copper badges they wore early on.) When I went to college my professor taught that Americans started to "hate" the police when motor vehicles came about. It was decided by the politicians that the police would enforce the laws of the road...something new...as there were no rules prior to that. It was at that moment in time when the public started to feel that the police were against them. Prior to that the only connection with the police was like a fireman...there when you called to protect you...but suddenly...you were their target. I hope everyone will look carefully at the job the police do everyday. Maybe you 'were' speeding. Maybe the officer is not a jerk. He simply clocked you, whether on radar or otherwise. Whatever the violation, lets not jump to conclusions about every cop out there. They are, like the rest of us, individuals. They are right most of the time and make mistakes some of the time. But...I know when I call 911...they will come at lightning speed with what I need and are mostly dedicated Americans serving with pride.

Brian
Fanwood, NJ
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post #48 of 169 Old Mar 14th, 2006, 6:56 pm
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Still wondering where the authority is that an officer must inform you of the reason for detention.

Tom Lashbrook
Napa, CA
Minden, NV

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post #49 of 169 Old Mar 14th, 2006, 7:20 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman587
Do you know how easy it is to get probable cause???? You start making movements to the glove box or under the seat, I have probable cause to search for drugs, weapons....... So go ahead and piss off the police.

Then call your attorney after you do so, you may just need them Cops can do whatever they want and some show it very harshly, they cget away with just about anything mainly because no one will take the time to file a complaint or talk to a lawyer.

when I'm pulled over I treat them with respect, if they do not treat me the same I ask for their superior to come to the scene, I have done that twice in my life. Both times the superior officer was actually a human being.

I filed one complaint on a officer, the guy was a freak on a power trip.

Tom

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post #50 of 169 Old Mar 14th, 2006, 7:38 pm
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This is what makes this country great. We say what we want and we do what we want.

I totally agree, if you feel you were treated wrong then file a formal complaint. All my traffic stops are taped recorded. "Good morning/Good Afternoon my name is officer so and so. You were stopped for going in a , may I see your license. This traffic stop is being recorded." This how my stops are done.

I have search vehicles by just the movements they make. The smell from a vehicle. Which also includes time day and location of stop. My training experience adds to the probable cause. I have also stop person and never told them a thing. The total of the incident, from the time I observed the vehicle to the time I signal to the time I speak with the driver, is all part of probable cause.

I remember a stop last month were a young lady had a small zip lock baggie on the passenger seat. What did see from that???

Then on the floor board I saw in plain view a cigar that the guts taken out. What do think that was????

That was enough for probable cause to search. It did not help that she tried to get ride of the baggie.

Search to her purse we found a smoking pipe and for the others the baggie is used to carry drugs and cigar is called a blunt. To smoke dope.
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