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post #1 of 46 Old Feb 21st, 2006, 11:07 pm Thread Starter
 
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american ports ... feeling safe?

so how are we feeling about the united arab emirates running security at major u.s. shipping ports? does this seem like a good idea?

inquiring minds want to know ...
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post #2 of 46 Old Feb 21st, 2006, 11:19 pm
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Originally Posted by KBandit
so how are we feeling about the united arab emirates running security at major u.s. shipping ports? does this seem like a good idea?

inquiring minds want to know ...
The Saudis, the UAE and so many others control so much of our infrastructure already that I doubt it matters. Our asymmetric trade policy with these nations is maturing nicely, but not in our favor. It will be interesting.
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post #3 of 46 Old Feb 22nd, 2006, 12:10 am
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Originally Posted by KBandit
so how are we feeling about the united arab emirates running security at major u.s. shipping ports? does this seem like a good idea?

inquiring minds want to know ...
Howdy Gerhard,

The deal is not for security, but for ownership. This may sound like a subtle distinction, but regardless of ownership, security is still under the control, or lack thereof, of the U.S. government. Also the employees will be here in the U.S.. U.S. citizens, permanent residents or under work permits......as they are now, in short no difference.

Also, and I think more relevant, is the fact that the receiving end of the transport of goods is not as critical as the point of departure. China, South Korea and Japan ship us huge quantities of containers. Control of the point of departure for those containers by allies is what gives us security for those containers. To inspect every incoming container is riduculous simply on the basis of scope. Our trading partners are part of the security and there is a level of trust that they are holding up their end.

This is a political issue and not a real one. I recall when a Japanese company bought Rockefeller Center in N.Y.C. and the uproar that caused. A lot of sound and fury about who has "title" on an American property. Another more extreme comparison might be the "black listing" in Hollywood of accused Communist sympathizers in the 1950's. This issue sounds like a similar phobia.

For those that may not be aware of this, this deal includes three British ports as well. Oddly, we don't hear much from the British media about this.

I am devoutly anti-terrorism, pro-American and conservative by nature and I don't see a factual problem. People keep saying that Dubai has "ties" to the 9/11 hijackers, but didn't those same hijackers take flying lessons here in the U.S.? So by that definition, don't they have ties to the U.S. as well?

Ownership is not the issue. Cooperation and intelligence sharing with our allies against Islamic fanatics (and the U.A.E. is helping the U.S. ....my guess is that approval of this deal is a "thank you" for that cooperation) is what is needed to find and capture or kill the enemy.

.

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post #4 of 46 Old Feb 22nd, 2006, 8:16 am Thread Starter
 
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that all sounds great, billy, and i sincerely hope you are right. i live quite near two major u.s. ports.

but it seems as though a significant number of conservatives strongly disagree with you.
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post #5 of 46 Old Feb 22nd, 2006, 9:48 am Thread Starter
 
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more on the story here:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,185540,00.html

is seems as though the president has stepped in some ca-ca.

again.
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post #6 of 46 Old Feb 22nd, 2006, 9:50 am
 
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I wonder if any (which) politicians will end up with a nice place to vacation on one of Dubai's man made islands. The British aren't upset because they have been there working on these projects for 20 years.

The reason some of Billy's conservative friends are upset, they want a vacation house also. Dems as usual are not sure where to stand because they don't have the power to get a vacation house. Hell, half the wealthy people in this country have a place there, and Gerhard, you know they are the ones who really run this country.
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post #7 of 46 Old Feb 22nd, 2006, 10:01 am Thread Starter
 
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hmmm ... vacationing in dubai? no thx. think i'll pass.

interesting point but i can't say i'm quite that cynical about our government.

yet.

i think someone made the decision to give the contract to UAE without thinking it through, and now they can't back off without losing face. similar to:

- nominating harriet myers for supreme court
- "you're doing a heckuva job, browney."
- "you are either for us or against us."
- how long with the war last? "weeks or months ... certainly not years."
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post #8 of 46 Old Feb 22nd, 2006, 10:39 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KBandit
so how are we feeling about the united arab emirates running security at major u.s. shipping ports? does this seem like a good idea?

inquiring minds want to know ...
Well, if it had not been the UAE, it may have been China.

Unfortunately for the future of the USA, not only the government, but American industry as a whole is rapidly selling out our future. So many of our companies are abandoning manufacturing in the US and moving off shore. With a rapidly decreasing manufacturing base, who is going to be able to buy the goods now made elswere and imported back?

What was surprising to me was the fact that the USA was not controlling the ports now! A British company was doing it.

The economic future of the USA is rapidly going down hill. Our grand children are going to be PISSED at us for destroying their future! There will not be enough McMadonald's fry cook jobs to go around.

Ond of the biggest problems we now have is the rapidly decreasing output of engineers in this country. We are well below 20% of college graduates now, China is approaching 50%! Looks like they are a LOT smarter regarding their economic future than we are.

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post #9 of 46 Old Feb 22nd, 2006, 11:27 am Thread Starter
 
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Well, if it had not been the UAE, it may have been China.
well i have to say that i'd be a LOT more comfortable if our ports were run by china.

it is generally acknowledged that israel has the best security in the world for airlines and shipping ports. can you imagine the israelis giving control over their ports to the UAE?

i dunno, man, this one seems like a no-brainer to me.
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post #10 of 46 Old Feb 22nd, 2006, 11:30 am
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Originally Posted by KBandit
...but it seems as though a significant number of conservatives strongly disagree with you.
I know. It seems this is one of those "political hot potatoes" that politicians would rather not challenge the public's fears, this close to an election.

I mentioned the "black listing" of accused Communists in the 1950's where it took years for the politicians to get some backbone. I'm also reminded of the publics fear during WWII when the public was so afraid that they put a whole race of Americans in concentration camps.

Bush is not running for re-election, appears strongly committed to destroying terrorism and his administration has reviewed the sale and found that it is proper. As Dave Shealey pointed out, the ports are currently owned by the British.

So what the politicians are caving into is the publics fear of Arabs, pure and simple.


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post #11 of 46 Old Feb 22nd, 2006, 11:38 am Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by BillyOmaha
[font=Comic Sans MS]Bush is not running for re-election, appears strongly committed to destroying terrorism and his administration has reviewed the sale and found that it is proper.
actually, billy, it may be true that his adminstration reviewed the sale, but it appears that the little fella himself did not even know the deal was going through until it was too late. read all about it here:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,185677,00.html

no doubt one of bush's political cronies vetted the UAE company.

i predict someone will fall on their sword for this so that bush can have plausible deniability. i don't think the deal will go thru. if it does things will turn ugly fast.
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post #12 of 46 Old Feb 22nd, 2006, 3:36 pm
 
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American Ports will be Safer!

I will probably regret this, but many of the comments in this thread are driving me nuts and I need state my opinion, experience and some facts. Apologize for the length up front.....

IMO, the question of whether or not Dubai Ports World (DPW) is up for the challenge of operating six US ports should not be left to the politicians and media. UAE is and has been a reliable and important ally since long before the first Gulf War. That is a fact and shouldn't be up for debate, at least not in light of DPW's bid.

DPW's bid for two UK corporations that currently manage six US ports appears to be the winning bid. The question of whether or not DPW will enhance the current US port operations should be answered with a study of DPW's history, current operations and future plans. For the record, DPW has been managing Dubai and Jebel Ali port operations since 1991 flawlessly. The port of Jebel Ali has been the fastest growing inport/export facility in the world for more than a decade and is currently one of the top 10 largest shipping ports in the world. DPW has managed there port operations without a terrorist incident in one of the most hostile regions of the world. Before someone says, "well that is just Arabs protecting their own interest", we need to keep in mind that Dubai/Jebel Ali is the fastest growing city in the world and is the world's greatest Global Cosmopolitan. Only 22% of the Dubai population is UAE people. The other 78% make up a phenomenal global conglomerate. There is no other place in the world like Dubai, and US investment in the region is significant. The two largest real estate developers in Dubai are Americans (Donald Trump Corp. and the other name escapes me). As of 2001, 55 Fortune 500 Corporations have Global headquarters in Dubai and I suspect that number has grown.

Bottom line, a study of DPW's track record and accomplishments without the political and media crap, points toward a significant enhancement in US port operations. Enhancements that will result in more jobs for US workers and investment on US soil. DPW plans consist of major upgrades in the port operation facilities in all six US ports. This contract work will go to American Companies and workers. The US Unionized dock workers will remain in place in a better work environment as a result of new equipment and advanced operating facilities. DPW's contract to manage US port operations does not include an influx of UAE workers to American soil, contrary to what some politicians and media sources would lead you to believe.

The question of Port Security is independent of the proposed DPW contract. DPW's charter and responsibility only pertains to port operations. Port security will still be the responsibility of the US Homeland Security Department (USCG, FBI, DEA, INS, etc...). I would argue that port facilities will ultimately be safer under DPW for two reasons; 1) the contract requires an upgrade in port ops equipment, facilities and technology which should equate to a safer work environment 2) DPW's global track record and impressive accomplishments during Jebel Ali's unprecedented growth will most likely result in enhanced security due to better organization/operations.

In closing, a little personal experience with regards to UAE. I've been to Dubai (Jebel Ali) four times and Fujairah three times since 1990. My seven visits to the UAE have been the safest and most enjoyable port visits in my 24 year naval career. Dubai is the most remarkable city I have experienced in my life and I have traveled most of the world. There is incredible beauty, the highest technology, 100% westernized, virtually no crime, Americans/Europeans everywhere and best of all, they love the USA. Without question, Dubai (Jebel Ali) and Fujairah are the safest ports I have berthed in other than Naval Base facilities in the Continental US. I urge you to not hop on the reckless band wagon of UAE bashing from mis-guided politicians and irresponsible media. The UAE is and has been a good and reliable friend to the US and it's military. DPW is an impressive corporation and a leader in their business. IMO, US ports will be better served under the management of DPW versus the current contract holders.
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post #13 of 46 Old Feb 22nd, 2006, 3:41 pm
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Originally Posted by dshealey
Well, if it had not been the UAE, it may have been China.

Unfortunately for the future of the USA, not only the government, but American industry as a whole is rapidly selling out our future. So many of our companies are abandoning manufacturing in the US and moving off shore. With a rapidly decreasing manufacturing base, who is going to be able to buy the goods now made elswere and imported back?

What was surprising to me was the fact that the USA was not controlling the ports now! A British company was doing it.

The economic future of the USA is rapidly going down hill. Our grand children are going to be PISSED at us for destroying their future! There will not be enough McMadonald's fry cook jobs to go around.

Ond of the biggest problems we now have is the rapidly decreasing output of engineers in this country. We are well below 20% of college graduates now, China is approaching 50%! Looks like they are a LOT smarter regarding their economic future than we are.
David,

Your post logically sums up the effect of our twin deficit problem. The idea of free trade has somehow been severely unbalanced in its application. The economic leverage of other nations is eventually going to take its toll.

On the education front it is ironic to note , at least locally, that a large (proportionally speaking) percentage of our engineering, math and science students are from foreign exchange programs.
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post #14 of 46 Old Feb 22nd, 2006, 3:41 pm
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Ports

Quote:
Originally Posted by KBandit
so how are we feeling about the united arab emirates running security at major u.s. shipping ports? does this seem like a good idea?

inquiring minds want to know ...
NPR had a great piece on this issue this morning whilst driving to work - after hearing it, I have no problem with the deal. At least no more than I would with other foreign-leased port operations. Security is still handled by all the usual federal agencies, including 100% radiation screening of containers. Of the six terminals at the Port of Newark, only two are leased by American companies, two by Chinese, one Danish, and one Danish/UK soon to be Danish/UAE.

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post #15 of 46 Old Feb 22nd, 2006, 4:00 pm
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Vacation in Dubai

Quote:
Originally Posted by KBandit
hmmm ... vacationing in dubai? no thx. think i'll pass.
Gerhard, you're missing the best skiing in the Middle East!

http://www.skidxb.com/facts_eng.htm?mid=1&sid=2

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post #16 of 46 Old Feb 22nd, 2006, 4:12 pm Thread Starter
 
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Gerhard, you're missing the best skiing in the Middle East!

http://www.skidxb.com/facts_eng.htm?mid=1&sid=2
yeah, that link has been making the rounds. being a southern boy, i don't snow ski. but if i did i believe i'd do it in lake tahoe, which is only a few hours from where i live. no desire to travel to the middle east with a u.s. passport (your assurances notwithstanding).
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post #17 of 46 Old Feb 22nd, 2006, 7:59 pm
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Nice post, Ray. Facts are getting harder and harder to hear these days with the hand-wringers wails of suspicion instead of research and comprehension with perspective. Its a business deal. Of course, the labor unions (which became illigitimate about 1920 and have lived on coersion and corruption since) bitched to Ms. Clinton, so she went ballistic, and now will have another gaff to try to live down. Yep, another election is coming...

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post #18 of 46 Old Feb 22nd, 2006, 9:58 pm
 
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Wow was Clinton on TV on his issue. All I've seen is republican leadership(ha) on TV. Maybe I need HDTV.
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post #19 of 46 Old Feb 23rd, 2006, 12:58 am
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They won't be running security. The Coast Guard, U.S. Customs and Homeland Security will, just as always. This story is blown SO out of proportion, it's just plain silly. 80% of the ports around the world are owned by various multi-national companies.

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post #20 of 46 Old Feb 23rd, 2006, 10:18 am Thread Starter
 
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to those that think this issue has been blown out of proportion and that it is pure politics: someone ought to tell the people who are lining up to fight the deal, including top republicans bill frist and dennis hastert.

i happen to agree that the deal would PROBABLY not compromise national security. but there are three things we should probably consider:

1) PROBABLY is a big word when you are talking about safety from terrorism.
2) in politics, perception can be more important than reality. and the perception across america is that the bush administration really screwed the pooch. you have to wonder what they are thinking.
3) every darned time i board an airplane i have to negotiate a gauntlet in the name of national security against muslim fundamentalist. now you are telling me that our major ports will be controlled by a country that is one of their home bases? that doesn't feel right.
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post #21 of 46 Old Feb 23rd, 2006, 12:19 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyOmaha
[font=Comic Sans MS]... appears strongly committed to destroying terrorism...
.


Why is Osama Bin Laden (and his ilk) still alive after more than four years?

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post #22 of 46 Old Feb 23rd, 2006, 12:47 pm
 
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Anyone who has traveled to Dubai has either been on the corporate dime or under the wing of the US Military. The posts about what a great country and destination UAE makes... I'm not buying it.

Try going on your own $$$ or as as a tourist. You end up broke, dead ...probably both. I'm sure it is magnificent but lets keep in mind it is the result of fanatic religious men who live in the desert and have found a way to sell what is under their sand to the world.

When their oil runs out we will either be working for them or dependent on them because they will have bigger guns.

US did not like China buying the world's largest oil company and we should also consider selling our ports to the richest mafiosa in history a serious threat to national security.
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post #23 of 46 Old Feb 23rd, 2006, 12:49 pm
 
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Gerhard,
My respectful counter opinion:

Quote:
Originally Posted by KBandit
to those that think this issue has been blown out of proportion and that it is pure politics: someone ought to tell the people who are lining up to fight the deal, including top republicans bill frist and dennis hastert..
That is exactly the problem. Politicians are stepping up and talking political babble. Motivated by a fresh opportunity to discredit the present administration or to move forward personal selfish agendas. Not one of the politicians I've seen or heard of are speaking facts or pointing out flaws in Dubai Port World's (DPW's) business model, corporate policies, terrorist affiliations or track record.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KBandit
I happen to agree that the deal would PROBABLY not compromise national security. but there are three things we should probably consider:

1) PROBABLY is a big word when you are talking about safety from terrorism.
There is no "probably" about it unless the US Home Land Security Department fails to do there job. DPW port operations have absolutely nothing to do with port security. The HLS port security task will become more effective and efficient with DPW's enhanced equipment and facilities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KBandit
2) in politics, perception can be more important than reality. and the perception across america is that the bush administration really screwed the pooch. you have to wonder what they are thinking.
I would argue that "Perception is reality" in the eyes and ears of the beholder. Which is why those of us that are not fooled by political nonsense and skewed media facts, need to speak out and set the record straight. To buy-in to and advocate irresponsible media snippets without a committed resolve to understand the unbiased facts is a dis-service to ourselves and those who look up to us for guidance and recommendations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KBandit
3) every darned time i board an airplane i have to negotiate a gauntlet in the name of national security against muslim fundamentalist. now you are telling me that our major ports will be controlled by a country that is one of their home bases? that doesn't feel right.
Does "it feel right" to have BMW products flooding our shores, or has just enough time passed to where those that lived through the terror of WW II have forgotten/forgave the fact that BMW was one of the Nazi Party's largest war producing machines on the backs of 25,000 to 30,000 slave laborers from the Nazi concentration camps. I know, apples and oranges, but that is the point! IMO, it isn't any more right to black ball BMW for their bad conduct and affiliations with the Nazi Party as it is to blackball UAE and DPW because they are a Muslim nation and presumed to endorse terrorism and Western hatred.
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post #24 of 46 Old Feb 23rd, 2006, 1:23 pm Thread Starter
 
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Gerhard,
1) Motivated by a fresh opportunity to discredit the present administration or to move forward personal selfish agendas.

2) There is no "probably" about it unless the US Home Land Security Department fails to do there job. DPW port operations have absolutely nothing to do with port security. The HLS port security task will become more effective and efficient with DPW's enhanced equipment and facilities.

3)Does "it feel right" to have BMW products flooding our shores, or has just enough time passed to where those that lived through the terror of WW II have forgotten/forgave the fact that BMW was one of the Nazi Party's largest war producing machines on the backs of 25,000 to 30,000 slave laborers from the Nazi concentration camps.
hi ... thx for the well thought out counterpoints. let me comment.

1) high-profile republicans seem to be leading the charge to defeat the deal. to me that means that either opposition is bipartisan (apolitical) or bush is totally out of step with his own party. i suspect it is a combination of the two.

2) i realize that they are not involved with security, and i misspoke in my original post. i apologize. but i also think that a management role in major ports will provide fundamentalists within UAE an "in" for covert operations.

3) that is really an excellent point. but the honest truth is i did not live through wwII. i lived through 9/11. and let me tell you, brother, i will NEVER forget what happened in new york. it is a crime that those bastards have not been brought to justice. short of that, we better be darned sure that it doesn't happen again. or at least as sure as humanly possible. my son goes to college about 15 miles from a major port. my wife and i live about 20 miles away from another one. it is a risk that i am not willing to take.

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post #25 of 46 Old Feb 23rd, 2006, 9:44 pm
 
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Reply from Sea Marshal

I'm a Sea Marshal w/the Coast Guard; our mission is to deter terrorism coming into the local ports of Seattle, Tacoma, and the Puget Sound area via the large foreign container ships coming in. We've heard for a number of years now that one of the highest terror threats is by shipping. While on board, our team would be the first to bite the dust if anything happens. I can say that we are highly motivated and strive to do our best.....
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post #26 of 46 Old Feb 24th, 2006, 5:01 am
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KBandit
1) high-profile republicans seem to be leading the charge to defeat the deal. to me that means that either opposition is bipartisan (apolitical) or bush is totally out of step with his own party. i suspect it is a combination of the two.

2) i realize that they are not involved with security, and i misspoke in my original post. i apologize. but i also think that a management role in major ports will provide fundamentalists within UAE an "in" for covert operations.

3) that is really an excellent point. but the honest truth is i did not live through wwII. i lived through 9/11. and let me tell you, brother, i will NEVER forget what happened in new york. it is a crime that those bastards have not been brought to justice. short of that, we better be darned sure that it doesn't happen again. or at least as sure as humanly possible. my son goes to college about 15 miles from a major port. my wife and i live about 20 miles away from another one. it is a risk that i am not willing to take.
Thanks Gerhard,
1) Yes, I'm disappointed in all the politicians making noise on this issue, liberals and conservatives alike. I don't see the initial investigation into DPW's (UAE) worthiness as an Administration issue. There already was a bipartisan investigation (Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States (CFIUS), a panel with representatives from 12 U.S. agencies that reviews foreign takeovers of U.S. companies or possible risks to national security). I believe there may be a valid concern on whether or not the CFIUS investigation in to DPW was adequate. I suspect the Administration as well as Congress, could call for further investigations into DPW, but that is probably a double edged sword when we question the conclusions/recommendations of the CFIUS who we as a Nation currently hold accountable to investigate all proposed foreign takeovers of U.S. companies. But who knows, if here is evidence that the CFIUS did a less than adequate investigation in to DPW, then I'm at the front of the line demanding a more thorough investigation!

2) You are right. If the bad guy gets closer, it's easier for him to hurt or surprise us. What should be investigated by our leaders is how DPW will keep the bad guy away. DPW has been effectively keeping the bad guy out of our inbound shipping containers for years. I don't know the details, and at this point the public probably should know, but the HLS Dept and it's prior equivalents have had ongoing security relationships with DPW since 1999. There is an established track record that we should know about.

3) I completely sympathize with your fears. I'm afraid every time I pull in to port, whether it's abroad or in CONUS. The only port I feel completely comfortable pulling in to or visiting is our Naval Base Homeport where we personally know how the base security is maintained and participate in maintaining that security.
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post #27 of 46 Old Feb 24th, 2006, 8:00 am
 
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Thanks Ray. Some well thought out, civilized discussion on this subject. (Now I'm thinking I should not have made my smart ass remark to respond to someone else.) You gave me a few more places to research this issue, or should I say my wife to research. We have done a lot of reading in the past few days and lean toward DPW getting the contract.

We need to start a new thread on how fear is affecting our judgement. If the White House losses this one, they only have themselves to blame. They put the fear out and the media takes it and embellishes. I still fear one of my fellow motorist taking me out on the LT more than a terrorist. But I'm not going to stop riding, just pay a little more attention to what's going on.

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post #28 of 46 Old Feb 24th, 2006, 11:26 am
 
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Thank you

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaMarshal
I'm a Sea Marshal w/the Coast Guard; our mission is to deter terrorism coming into the local ports of Seattle, Tacoma, and the Puget Sound area via the large foreign container ships coming in. We've heard for a number of years now that one of the highest terror threats is by shipping. While on board, our team would be the first to bite the dust if anything happens. I can say that we are highly motivated and strive to do our best.....
Tim,
Thanks for doing what you do. You have the hard job and you do it right in our own backyard. You and your shipmates are the biggest contributor to Navy piece of mind when we are going in/out and visiting CONUS ports.
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post #29 of 46 Old Feb 24th, 2006, 11:32 am
 
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Originally Posted by TandemCyclist
We need to start a new thread on how fear is affecting our judgement. If the White House losses this one, they only have themselves to blame. They put the fear out and the media takes it and embellishes. I still fear one of my fellow motorist taking me out on the LT more than a terrorist. But I'm not going to stop riding, just pay a little more attention to what's going on.
Rick
Well said Rick and IMO your point is spot on! Fear is definitely impacting our judgement and I think history has shown us far to many times that the impact is negative.
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post #30 of 46 Old Feb 24th, 2006, 11:41 am
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post #31 of 46 Old Feb 24th, 2006, 11:42 am
 
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For the Record

I need to make a public disclosure. Your tax $$ aren't being squandered by this active duty Sailor spending a lot of time on the internet and the BMW LT site. I'm on leave (vacation) at home for a couple weeks before I abandon my lovely bride for another 3-4 months.

Getting online with you guys at BMW LT and spending some money on Ebay has been my only escape from the Honey Do List from Hell. Unfortunately, I was gone from home most of the winter (Nov-Jan) and the to-do list has grown out of control.
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post #32 of 46 Old Feb 24th, 2006, 11:51 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Portguyofva
I need to make a public disclosure. Your tax $$ aren't being squandered by this active duty Sailor spending a lot of time on the internet and the BMW LT site. I'm on leave (vacation) at home for a couple weeks before I abandon my lovely bride for another 3-4 months.

Getting online with you guys at BMW LT and spending some money on Ebay has been my only escape from the Honey Do List from Hell. Unfortunately, I was gone from home most of the winter (Nov-Jan) and the to-do list has grown out of control.
Hey, Ray - thanks for doin' whatcha do. Real thanks.

BTW - them Honey Do Lists from Hell come up pretty regular around here too, and I'm on property 24/7. I've let Cheryl git so dayam proficient on thinkin' up stuff for them lists, I feel like I oughta hire a crew to take over the list - at least part time!! Were these wimmins born with list expertise, or what??

Take care, Ray. Enjoy the vacation much as you can. Drop in when you have the opportunity. Best to ya.
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post #33 of 46 Old Feb 24th, 2006, 12:41 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nbroca
Why is Osama Bin Laden (and his ilk) still alive after more than four years?
Because he's sitting in a hole in some remote part of Pakistan. For us to go in an get him ourselves would take a huge amount of force....it would have to large enough to pacify that region of Pakistan, population 5 times greater than Iraq. I prefer we do it the way it's being done now.

OBL is not Terrorism, just the face of it for now. While it's important to kill him, it is not the most important thing.

What is important is that the most powerful Shiite leaders in Iraq are calling on their followers for peace and to reject "takfiris" (extremism). When the majority of Muslims reject extremism then the pool of terrorists will dry up.


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post #34 of 46 Old Feb 24th, 2006, 6:01 pm
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Well, I figure them fellas ain't dumb enough to bomb their own business so cut 'em a break.

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post #35 of 46 Old Feb 25th, 2006, 6:45 am
 
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Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick
BTW - them Honey Do Lists from Hell come up pretty regular around here too, and I'm on property 24/7. I've let Cheryl git so dayam proficient on thinkin' up stuff for them lists, I feel like I oughta hire a crew to take over the list - at least part time!! Were these wimmins born with list expertise, or what??
Thank you Dick,
I just looked at your profile. I'm betting your a Honey Do List (HDL) expert. We appreciate everything you do for us on BMWLT.com
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post #36 of 46 Old Feb 25th, 2006, 8:43 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Portguyofva
Thank you Dick,
I just looked at your profile. I'm betting your a Honey Do List (HDL) expert. We appreciate everything you do for us on BMWLT.com
Yeppir, Ray --- I'm a fourth degree HDL, which is the 'worst' you can git!!!

BTW - thanks; butt I don't do much around BMWLT .com. Thankfully, the admins take pity on me and don't keep me saddled with an HDL!!

Take care, Ray.
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post #37 of 46 Old Feb 25th, 2006, 9:59 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick
Yeppir, Ray --- I'm a fourth degree HDL, which is the 'worst' you can git!!!

BTW - thanks; butt I don't do much around BMWLT .com. Thankfully, the admins take pity on me and don't keep me saddled with an HDL!!

Take care, Ray.
Dick, don't sell yourself short, buddy! It's hard work reading Every Single Post!

Blessings!
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post #38 of 46 Old Feb 25th, 2006, 7:38 pm Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daman858
Well, I figure them fellas ain't dumb enough to bomb their own business so cut 'em a break.
the better question is whether there are people who work for them who will be interested in more than conducting business as usual.
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post #39 of 46 Old Feb 26th, 2006, 6:39 am
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That would be the Teamsters, wouldn't it?

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post #40 of 46 Old Feb 26th, 2006, 5:50 pm
 
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KBandit,, there is a very good chance that those two port buy you are already being operated by foreign nations... Probably China, they have allot of the ports on the west coast..

And remember that these people are not buying the ports, they are only buying the management company to run the scheduling of the ports... The Longshoremans union will run the ports, just like they run ALL docks on the East coast.. This deal also has two or three british ports in the deal too........Regards Pete
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post #41 of 46 Old Feb 26th, 2006, 8:37 pm Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petepeterson
KBandit,, there is a very good chance that those two port buy you are already being operated by foreign nations... Probably China, they have allot of the ports on the west coast..

And remember that these people are not buying the ports, they are only buying the management company to run the scheduling of the ports... The Longshoremans union will run the ports, just like they run ALL docks on the East coast.. This deal also has two or three british ports in the deal too........Regards Pete
good point, pete. my wife is chinese and i don't trust her with my credit card, much less a major shipping port!

kidding aside ... you are right. multinationalism is the rule, not the exception.

i wish i could be open minded and not care that arabs have inside access to port management, and that infiltration of the management structure does not scare me. but i can't say that. i don't trust arab countries to manage our ports and i think infiltration by al quaida or other terrorist groups is a real threat.
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post #42 of 46 Old Feb 26th, 2006, 8:47 pm
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Former operators P&O Nedlloyd now Maersk...250 ports and lots of oil involvement...not sure there is any difference http://www.maersk.com/ , but they were not keeping up with some refurbishments on the wish list...there will be considerable investment in facilities to streamline them to make them more efficient by UAE.

We'd be happy to confisticate the ports after the investment is made if they're stupid enough to screw the pooch by any taint of security breech. However, if they do not operate according to "Hoyle" in any of the dozens of countries they deal with, the business suffers severely. They must remain totally interconnected in order to be effective as an operator. Remember, we really don't give a hoot what happens at the port, but what happens to a container that gets its dirty stuff upwind of a major city. That amount of radiation Should be detectable. Scary as that sounds, I'm a bunch more concerned about who they are financing and aiding in other parts of the world. Money they have...boatloads.

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post #43 of 46 Old Feb 26th, 2006, 9:06 pm
 
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Nobody can assuage your Arab-phobia Ger. There are those who say the only good Muslim is a dead Muslim but it appears that you are not one of those given your bent for "multinationalism" as you state you are.

It's all done anyhow since the one you (or fox or whomever) stated who was dead set against the deal (Frist, senator from my state) sat down with Warner last night and there will be a 45 day review of the deal before anything happens. Hopefully that will turn Hillary's gut inside out the mere fact that we would "deal" with the UAE for "ownership" of our ports (what total crap). If it hadn't been for her imbecilliic husband we wouldn't be worrying about OBL to begin with because his head would have been on a stick instead of released.

I feel safe in our ports now and charter tankerships/trade oil for a living. Have not had any problems on a single vessel (37000-310000 tonners) I've dealt with since 9/11 and that was only because we had a ship with an idiotic Croitian Muslim crewmember who decided to run down the dock yelling "Kill all Americans" as loud as he could; on 9/13; in Corpus Christi!

Yeah, "mulinationalism is the rule, not the exception." Very Jeffersonian. Go tell it to the French who continue to pay lip service to these mulitnationalist syncophants only to find them running through the streets of Paris burning cars and destroying property. The Brits too are sort of revising their "mulinationalist" limitations lately. A few bus and subway bombings tend to do that do you.

Diplomacy is one thing but this "multinationalist" crap saying that everyone is wonderful and we're all on one big ice cream cone together is naive to say the least. You are at best a hypocrite claiming to be a "multinationalist" whilst claiming "gee, I'm just not comfortable having UAE (ARABS) managing our ports."

The UAE MANAGEMENT of Ports is a business proposition and being reviewed by OUR government for the next 45 days. If there are security concerns then they will not get it and if you think for one second that conservative politics has one thing to do with something of this scale then you are naive.
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post #44 of 46 Old Feb 27th, 2006, 7:27 pm
 
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Understand KBandit but remember that only 5% of containers get inspected here in any port.. There is no telling how many get inspected when they are loaded... To me thats where we should spend our energy with inspections...
We need to stop the bomb before it gets here..Regards Pete
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post #45 of 46 Old Feb 28th, 2006, 3:38 am
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Scary as that sounds, I'm a bunch more concerned about who they are financing and aiding in other parts of the world. Money they have...boatloads.

Here is a very current case in point. It will always be easier to smuggle in money than bombs. (Also see Mura Building, OKC)

And once you have money in this country, we've seen that you can buy just about anything. (Also see Politics, USA)

Police: al-Qaida Funded Indonesia Attacks
By ZAKKI HAKIM, Associated Press Writer
1 hour ago

JAKARTA, Indonesia - Osama bin Laden's terror network helped fund suicide bombings in Indonesia over the past four years, a senior police official said Tuesday, highlighting links between al-Qaida and the regional militant group Jemaah Islamiyah.

The mastermind of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States, Khalid Sheikh Mohammad, personally arranged for a courier to deliver money to leaders of Jemaah Islamiyah to help fund attacks in the world's most populous Muslim country from 2002-2005, said Col. Petrus Reinhard Golose of Indonesia's counterterrorism task force.

Jemaah Islamiyah is blamed for the 2002 nightclub attacks on the resort island of Bali that killed 202 people, attacks in the capital Jakarta in 2003 and 2004 that together killed 21, and triple suicide bombings on Bali in October that killed 20.

Indonesian authorities have claimed since 2003 that al-Qaida helped finance the terror campaign in Indonesia, but they never before provided the level of detail given by Golose.

Golose said several members of Jemaah Islamiyah met directly with bin Laden in Afghanistan and signed agreements with him before launching the attacks, but he did not elaborate.

It was not immediately clear from which country the funds originated, but he said the money passed through Thailand and Malaysia before reaching Indonesia.

"Thirty thousand U.S. dollars was sent for the first Bali bombing," Golose said, adding that "tens of thousands of dollars" was sent for the 2003 bombing of the J.W. Marriott Hotel in Jakarta.

Some of the leftover cash was used for the 2004 attack on the Australian Embassy in Jakarta, he said. He said he was uncertain how much al-Qaida money was used for the latest attack on Bali, targeting three crowded restaurants.

Pete Jessen
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post #46 of 46 Old Feb 28th, 2006, 4:08 pm
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Last summer, there was a big deal around the Baltimore area because some police officer in the Maryland Transportation Authority Police went to the media to complain about the lack of security at the Port of Baltimore which is rather huge. The news reporter found holes in the fencing and a big list of other security problems but the BEST one was the blocks of wood painted to look like security cameras that they had on poles because there was no money for cameras!

We don't need to worry about some outfit srom the UAE. We need to worry about US!

"We have met the enemy and they is us!"...Pogo

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