Will Apple ever learn? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 18 Old Feb 20th, 2006, 11:40 am Thread Starter
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Will Apple ever learn?

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9590_22-6...ml?tag=nl.e589

The main reason Apple has such a miniscule share of the market now is their insistence on containing their OS on only their proprietary hardware.

Now that they are using Intel chips they are blocking attempts to run the OS on generic Intel hardware. Silly! If it is as easy to do as it seems, it WILL happen, in spite of their "system locking" desire.

Also there is news of internet worms beginning to be written for MAC now, as most knew would happen when the market share got big enough for visible impact.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

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post #2 of 18 Old Feb 20th, 2006, 11:59 am
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9590_22-6...ml?tag=nl.e589

The main reason Apple has such a miniscule share of the market now is their insistence on containing their OS on only their proprietary hardware.

Now that they are using Intel chips they are blocking attempts to run the OS on generic Intel hardware. Silly! If it is as easy to do as it seems, it WILL happen, in spite of their "system locking" desire.

Also there is news of internet worms beginning to be written for MAC now, as most knew would happen when the market share got big enough for visible impact.
hmmmm ... there is another, positive side of apple's approach. by controlling hardware/software packages you are able to deliver a more seamless product with fewer glitches for the masses.

apple long ago decided to create computers for people with no interest in dowloading drivers, configuring interfaces, and dealing with "plug and play" stuff that is actually "plug and pray." in other words, computers for the rest of us (non-engineers).

speaking as someone who works within the old PC order (i work at intel) let me tell you that apple's decision to use our chips has created more excitement within the ranks than anything in recent history. and some of the most excitement is among those you'd least expect it: engineering. i can't wait to buy a mac. and no ... i don't care particularly care that macs are not based on open standards.

you are right that more apple viruses are starting to appear. i guess they are becoming a victim of their own success.
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post #3 of 18 Old Feb 20th, 2006, 12:08 pm
 
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I dunno David. According to most loyal Mac heads...the company can do no wrong. Just ask Meese!
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post #4 of 18 Old Feb 20th, 2006, 12:56 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9590_22-6...ml?tag=nl.e589

The main reason Apple has such a miniscule share of the market now is their insistence on containing their OS on only their proprietary hardware.

Now that they are using Intel chips they are blocking attempts to run the OS on generic Intel hardware. Silly! If it is as easy to do as it seems, it WILL happen, in spite of their "system locking" desire.

Also there is news of internet worms beginning to be written for MAC now, as most knew would happen when the market share got big enough for visible impact.
David,

The Wintel mega-giant dominance of the computer market is comparable to Harley-Davidson in the US motorcycle world.

Macintosh is more akin to BMW.

Small and proprietary is not bad. If it were, wed all be on H-Ds or Hondas!

David, buy a new Mac you'll love it as much as your old...

J. Averill Townsend
Bloomfield Hills, MI


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post #5 of 18 Old Feb 20th, 2006, 12:59 pm
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Gee, they must be doing someting right as their stock price has gone from 12 to 70+ in the last 2 years!!!


MSFT stock has been flat for more than 3 years stuck in the 25 range.

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post #6 of 18 Old Feb 20th, 2006, 1:20 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
I dunno David. According to most loyal Mac heads...the company can do no wrong. Just ask Meese!
In the same way that BMW can do no wrong.

The main product is just well engineered and well executed. Sure they have their flaws, but not nearly so much as other systems out there. I think the Windows=HD, Apple=BMW comparison is pretty accurate.

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post #7 of 18 Old Feb 20th, 2006, 1:27 pm
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Originally Posted by meese
...I think the Windows=HD, Apple=BMW comparison is pretty accurate.
Not really, Ken. Windows meets my needs; HD does not.

- Bob

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post #8 of 18 Old Feb 20th, 2006, 1:50 pm
 
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Originally Posted by usmctpdog
Gee, they must be doing someting right as their stock price has gone from 12 to 70+ in the last 2 years!!!
mostly i-Pod sales but there does seem to be a "halo affect" on computer units. plus they got an incremental increase in sales when they switched to intel dual-core processors.

still a drop in the bucket compared to PC sales, but the hope is that apple innovation will rub off on some of the "dull, gray box" makers, giving rise to a new generation of PCs that are better.
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post #9 of 18 Old Feb 20th, 2006, 2:45 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JATownsend
David,

David, buy a new Mac you'll love it as much as your old...
I have never said, or thought, that MAC is not as good or better in many ways as the PC world. It is just that in all my computer using life I have had to use applications not available for MAC. (CAD), so have had to use PCs by default. Yes, there have been a couple CAD applications available for MAC, but not mainstream ones. One has to use what their company and customers use.

My reason for posting that was that Apple seems to want much larger market share, but will not do what is necessary to get it. Loosen up to a more open system.

What made the PC take off over Apple in the first place was the open system, and the hobbyists/hackers (not the negative connotation of the word) got into it and started developing applications and tricks.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
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EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
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post #10 of 18 Old Feb 20th, 2006, 2:48 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob_menton
Not really, Ken. Windows meets my needs; HD does not.

- Bob
Same here, and for MOST computer users.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
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EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
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post #11 of 18 Old Feb 20th, 2006, 4:38 pm
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Agreed. But that's my point. HD meets the needs of most riders, who just want to putt around on the weekends and get some wind in the hair, and maybe buy a little bad boy image while they're at it. Sure there are power users (power riders?) who will push things and those who wouldn't know how to add RAM (change spark plugs?). But meeting needs doesn't make it the best system out there. If it did, we'd all be on Harleys.

Apple is still a niche player, but they're very good at what they do. They have their quirks, but their overall package is designed to work as a complete system, which it does very well. Kinda just like BMW.

Ken
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post #12 of 18 Old Feb 20th, 2006, 5:32 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KBandit
mostly i-Pod sales but there does seem to be a "halo affect" on computer units. plus they got an incremental increase in sales when they switched to intel dual-core processors.

still a drop in the bucket compared to PC sales, but the hope is that apple innovation will rub off on some of the "dull, gray box" makers, giving rise to a new generation of PCs that are better.

***Most of what you have in the windoze GUI element today was first and only available from Apple. Apple has brought to market 3d modeling first as well as other applications that the MSFT giant copied for their machines.

I have both XP & OS X and appreciate both, but I am quite biased towards my MAC for many many reasons.

PC's are Chevrolet and MAC is a BMW or Rolls Royce. Not everyone needs or appreciates the class leader. .

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post #13 of 18 Old Feb 20th, 2006, 6:01 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
I have never said, or thought, that MAC is not as good or better in many ways as the PC world. It is just that in all my computer using life I have had to use applications not available for MAC. (CAD), so have had to use PCs by default. Yes, there have been a couple CAD applications available for MAC, but not mainstream ones. One has to use what their company and customers use.

My reason for posting that was that Apple seems to want much larger market share, but will not do what is necessary to get it. Loosen up to a more open system.

What made the PC take off over Apple in the first place was the open system, and the hobbyists/hackers (not the negative connotation of the word) got into it and started developing applications and tricks.
I never infered you said any negative against Macs.

What I believe you are missing, is that Apple DOES what APPLE wants to do.

The difference between the money MS makes and Apple is the difference between a very large pile and a super large pile. Apple has NEVER been mainstream. And, yet inspite of their rather unique attitude continue to lead the computer world with very cool stuff, that is very user friendly.

The loyality factor is very high. And it isn't because we have to use it as you do to run CAD on your PC. You are trapped, while we are free.

J. Averill Townsend
Bloomfield Hills, MI


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post #14 of 18 Old Feb 20th, 2006, 6:45 pm
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And then there's my pet OS of choice - the one commonly associated with The Penguinista.

It'll run on Intel/AMD, PowerPC, SPARC, calculators, TiVO boxes, game consoles, soda machines and I dunno what else - there's some long ol list someplace.

For me at least, it combines ease of use - traditionaly attributed to MACs (well, for me an my family at least) with widely available software - traditionaly attributed to Windows. It's get'n closer to being all things for all users. Maybe, someday - but not intentionaly. That's not the goal. Tux and it's users simply enjoy being what they are. Some revel in being a wee bit odd. Others try to blend in. Then there're those who simply don't care. It's their choice. That's a big deal - doing what you want, how you want. But, that's not limited to Penguin users.

Using it for daily desktop productivity, perimeter defense, penetration/security testing, LAN and workstation diagnostics and all kinds of recovery efforts as well as the traditional server rolls - public and private (plus a couple o custom doohikies) only shows it's many faces and possable uses. What I do with my Penguin boxen may well be doable with other OSes - but I've no idea how. And no else is obligated to care one way or the other either way. S'long as what they want is there.

From my viewpoint, it's pretty hard to beat - special when price is a factor. Thank god my viewpoint ain't the only one!

Biggest deal, however - no matter what you use - is the ride. Choose your ride, enjoy it, get there and get home again so you can do it again tomorrow. Or just go 'round in circles, if'n ya wanna. It's pretty easy to get fanatical for the OS de Jur. I've been there - got tired of it real fast. Didn't do anybody any good. I mostly wanna see folks get done what they need. If price is a concern, cool. If some particular strength/feature is attrractive - no prob. S'long as they get there and back again.

Yea - I wave at HD (Honda, Yamaha, Ducatti, etc, etc) riders too, even talked to a few now and then. Amazing how much we all have in common, inspite of the logos.

Tate

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post #15 of 18 Old Feb 20th, 2006, 7:02 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JATownsend
The loyality factor is very high. And it isn't because we have to use it as you do to run CAD on your PC. You are trapped, while we are free.
I don't feel "trapped" though. The systems I use every day, work and home, do just what I want and need them to do, with very rare problems.

There seems to always be an underlying feeling with hard core MAC users that we would just love to run one ourselves, and the underlying feeling we have of "why?"

I do feel sorry for the small percentage of PC users who have massive problems, but these are normally due to poor protection, no backups, hardware/software interface problems, bad hardware, etc.. With the huge number of PC hardware manufacturers out there, it is pretty darned amazing that Windows is as stable as it is. Pretty easy to see why Apple does not let this get out of hand, but it will keep them small.

I DO understand that MACS are going to be more stable for most users because of the much tighter control of the software and hardware interface. But with proper usage and control, a PC with Win 2000/XP is pretty darned stable too.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
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post #16 of 18 Old Feb 20th, 2006, 7:46 pm
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The difference is that a Mac user must be an active participant to become infected with these viruses (or is that viri?).

Under Windows, you have to jump through so many hoops to secure your system from all the autorun viruses, trojans, adware, malware. It hardly seems worth it for the average home user.


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post #17 of 18 Old Feb 20th, 2006, 9:27 pm
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Hey Jeff, I just noticed your updated sig line. Can't wait to hear about the GT.

Ken
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post #18 of 18 Old Feb 22nd, 2006, 4:07 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljeffe
The difference is that a Mac user must be an active participant to become infected with these viruses (or is that viri?).
Not any longer Jeff!
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/index.php?p=163&tag=nl.e550

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
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