Has a bike's ergonomics ever "hurt your wrists"? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 19 Old Feb 18th, 2006, 4:55 pm Thread Starter
 
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Question Has a bike's ergonomics ever "hurt your wrists"?

I see this comment a lot . . . on a variety of bike forums. Not just in here, but on the "other" Beemer forums, the Ninja forums, Yamaha R1 and FJR forums, and so on... And to be quite frank, (it's a stretch I know ) I see this comment WAY too often, IMHO.

Reminds me of the old story/joke about the guy who goes into to see the doctor and says, "Doc...when I hold my arm like this, it hurts." The Doctor looks at him straight in the eye and says, "Well don't hold your arm like that anymore.".


So... 'you get my point, right?

No?!


Of course I'm not suggesting to STOP riding that particular bike. And PAHLEEEZE!!! Must we ruin every sportbike and sport-tourer out there with bar risers?!?!?

What I would suggest the next time you ride a bike and the "handlebars are hurting your wrists" ... how about taking some weight OFF of your wrists?!! Bend your elbows a little. Hey! ... Look at that! They bend! They actually BEND!!! And when you want to get real wacky...maybe try bending your waist just a tad. Yea...you know...that big "built-in hinge" that God put just below your belly button. C'mon. You can do it!

I go to the bike shows and I watch guys and gals "try on" sportbikes and sport-tourers, and 9 out of 10 of them LOCK their elbows immediately. I yeye yeye! Kinda like watching a downhill-skier lock his knees. Probably not the best way to get down the hill.

Then again . . . what do I know?
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post #2 of 19 Old Feb 18th, 2006, 6:02 pm
 
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racebikes have race ergos to maximize aerodynamic efficiency. if you ride on a racetrack, racebike ergos will help you go faster, plus 100-mph-plus windblasts will buoy weight off your wrists.

i have always felt racebike ergos are silly on the street. looks racey but ... silly.

my opinion, of course.
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post #3 of 19 Old Feb 18th, 2006, 6:25 pm Thread Starter
 
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Red face Racebikes?!?!

The fact is, I'm not even talking about "racebikes" here at all. I'm referring to "sportbikes" and "sport-tourers"; i.e. the FJR1300, K1200S, K1200GT, and the like. I'll even go as extreme as the Hyabusa or ZX-14. None of which are "racebikes". Honest!
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post #4 of 19 Old Feb 18th, 2006, 6:57 pm
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Joe,
On the RS site, ther refer to Master Yoda's sitting instructions. A friend has a RS and I love riding it -WHEN I sit correctly, there's no pressure on the wrist. Really works. The thing I really like too is it takes the pressure off the tail bone.

Yoda's plan is-best I remember- sit with back very straight- not slouched like most of us. When done right- this applies pressure to the legs and then to the pegs- no pressure on wrist. When I finally figured it out- it really works!!

Maybe I need a K1200R? Can we put a LT fairing on it?

David Major
Charleston, SC
-2003 LT
-2007 GS Adventure. White
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post #5 of 19 Old Feb 18th, 2006, 7:25 pm Thread Starter
 
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I agree David. My point to this thread is to get people to THINK about what they may be doing wrong which cause pressure spots and/or pain. It's such human nature just to simply say "that bike doesn't fit me" . . . without trying to actually learn something. And who knows? We may just come out a better rider on the other side for it.
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post #6 of 19 Old Feb 19th, 2006, 1:23 am
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
The fact is, I'm not even talking about "racebikes" here at all. I'm referring to "sportbikes" and "sport-tourers"; i.e. the FJR1300, K1200S, K1200GT, and the like. I'll even go as extreme as the Hyabusa or ZX-14. None of which are "racebikes". Honest!
semantics. racebikes, sportbikes ... i've ridden my share. they work terrifically on the track but IMHO they don't make a lot of sense on the street. kinda like SUVs ... sure, they are capable of going off road, but does anyone ride them there? no. they just want the image. same thing with sportbikes. people want the image of riding a sportbike, but for most riders, most of the time, more conservative ergos make the most sense.

i think you will start seeing this in a new generation of super-motard, dual-sport and standard-style bikes (a la triumph speed triple) with more rational ergos. manufacturers are becoming savvy to this ... witness the new FZ1.

there will still be sportbike riders that want to ride in the classic "monkey humping a football" ergo style, but i think that, unless you spend a lot of time attending track days, rationality will set in.

sport tourers like the FJR are GT are more practical.

my opinion only.
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post #7 of 19 Old Feb 19th, 2006, 7:17 am Thread Starter
 
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The Twilight Zone...by KBandit

As per usual Gerald or Gary (old forum...remember?)...you have totally ignored the topic and/or premise of this thread just to make your "opinions" known. As if I care about whether or not you think a "racebike" belongs on the street. It's almost laughable in some demented fashion.
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post #8 of 19 Old Feb 19th, 2006, 11:14 am
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
As per usual Gerald or Gary (old forum...remember?)...you have totally ignored the topic and/or premise of this thread just to make your "opinions" known. As if I care about whether or not you think a "racebike" belongs on the street. It's almost laughable in some demented fashion.
joe,

don't know why you've seen fit to slam me here ... i thought my answer to your question would by now be obvious.

yes, sportbikes inflict pain to my wrists after a while. a lot shorter while than a bike with more relaxed ergos. also, my hands tend to go numb from the pressure on them. it is a fairly common complaint.

and yes, you can get relief be bending your elbows, but that tends to make you use your stomach muscles more, which can also get tiring after a couple hours. your back will also tend to get more sore than it needs to.

when my son finishes college he will prolly take the sprint off my hands, and when he does i'll be looking for a replacement to compliment the LT (funds allowing). for the reasons outlined above it will not be a hard-core sportbike. i believe it is possible to have both comfort and performance in the same bike. something like the FZ1, the K1200R or something similar.

i hope i have not somehow failed to meet your expectations with this post. it hurts me so when that happens. i kick the dog, i yell at the wife.

LOL!

jeesh.

p.s., gerhard is my real name. my friends call me gary. you can call me gary, too, but it would be great if you could be a bit more civil.
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post #9 of 19 Old Feb 19th, 2006, 11:28 am Thread Starter
 
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Red face The ongoing saga...

Quote:
Originally Posted by KBandit
yes, sportbikes inflict pain to my wrists after a while. a lot shorter while than a bike with more relaxed ergos. also, my hands tend to go numb from the pressure on them. it is a fairly common complaint.
Yes...it is a "common complaint". My point exactly! We finally agree on something. Now, don't change a thing and keep hurting...or go buy some risers if you haven't already. Heck! Ape Hangers would probably work very nicely for you.
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post #10 of 19 Old Feb 19th, 2006, 11:38 am
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Come on, Joe, Gary's pretty cool and knows a lot more than people seem to give him credit for. Cut him some slack.

Unless your original purpose in this thread was to propose a problem that few of us here deal with, just to give us your solution?

I've ridden sport bikes, sport tourers, and race replica bikes. And I prefer the LT, because the ergos work for me (except for the seat, easily remedied). I've also ridden hard with many other types of bikes, and often while they're pulling over to get some relief, I'm good for another 2-300 miles. Sure they may be 10-20 seconds faster through a particular set of corners, and maybe they don't know the proper technique for riding without discomfort, but at the end of the day I'm still riding while they're laying in the grass hurting in places they didn't know they could hurt.

They may think that's just normal, and you may have a valid point, but I'd rather just ride something that fits me. In fact, what a good idea. I'm outta here for a quick run up the coast. Hey, it's California outside.

Ken
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post #11 of 19 Old Feb 19th, 2006, 3:20 pm Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
Come on, Joe, Gary's pretty cool...
All I can do is consider the source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
Cut him some slack.
I did in my first reply...but he just kept on doing that Gary thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
Unless your original purpose in this thread was to propose a problem that few of us here deal with, just to give us your solution?
I re-read my original post and my purpose seems clear to me. I am suggesting that some people may want to reconsider how they ride a certain bike before dismissing it as a viable option...or ruining it with ergo-improving mods.

Sorry I started the tread...
I'll ask the admins to remove it.
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post #12 of 19 Old Feb 19th, 2006, 4:51 pm
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No need to remove the thread, Joe. We all have our personality quirks, and most of us are pretty familiar with each other by now. I'd say he was "just Gary being Gary and leave it at that.

It was a fair topic, posted in Chit Chat where it belongs. But you especially should know that threads will get replied to randomly, misinterpreted as a matter of course, and often go off on odd tangents. That's just the nature of the 'net.

It just didn't seem worth it to argue semantics and slam somebody for it. But miscommunications aside, I'd gladly ride with either of you guys any time I had the chance.

No big deal.

Ken
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post #13 of 19 Old Feb 19th, 2006, 6:18 pm
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Use those risers

My Nighthawk 750 bothered my wrists and shoulders. I installed a pair of risers and the pain went away. My brother had the same problem on his ST1100 and used the same solution.

On the LT, my problem is the knees. I raised the seat 1" and the problem is gone. I tried the peg lowering kit, but kept scraping them in the turns.

Sport bikes hurt my back and neck due to the leaning over and I don't like the feeling of the cold tank on my gut. I prefer the upright ride of standards and touring rides. Don't like the lazy boy recliner feeling of cruisers.

I don't choose a ride to be "cool". I choose one that is comfortable for long rides. I ride because I enjoy it, rain or shine.

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post #14 of 19 Old Feb 19th, 2006, 9:36 pm
 
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I agree with you Joe. A great biker friend of mine sent me a book by Reg Pridmore and one of the topics in that very good book was relaxing the arms, stay loose, etc. I too noticed that when I bot the LT that I was tight everywhere (weight of the bike) and particularly in the wrists/forearms. After reading portions of that book I now FORCE myself to try to relax my arms (read lower the elbows) which seems to take a lot of the "pain"out of the wrists, forearms, shoulders, etc.

Just a better riding position/rule I am trying and it seems to work.

Thanks for the topic.
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post #15 of 19 Old Feb 19th, 2006, 9:43 pm Thread Starter
 
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Thanks.

Another little trick is to bring your thumbs over top the hand grips...just as a test to see if you're holding the grips too tight. This can also prevent premature hand, wrist, and forearm fatique.
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post #16 of 19 Old Feb 19th, 2006, 9:56 pm Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rspyder
I don't choose a ride to be "cool". I choose one that is comfortable for long rides. I ride because I enjoy it, rain or shine.
I bought my Ninja to delve into a deeper understanding and capability of 'real' motorcycle riding...albeit with a focus on the sportier aspects of it. And if I wanted to accomplish these objectives, it required the proper tool. And, I had to be open-minded and humble enough to understand that I just might have a LOT to learn about the proper use of that tool. Did my arms and wrists hurt the first 200-mile day I put on the Ninja? Yes. But not anymore. And that's what I'm trying to share here.

FWIW, I bought the LT for 800 to 1000-mile days in the saddle. That didn't happen overnight either.
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post #17 of 19 Old Feb 19th, 2006, 10:39 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
FWIW, I bought the LT for 800 to 1000-mile days in the saddle. That didn't happen overnight either.
Funny, most of my serious LD rides involved a fair amount of overnight riding.

I went to Santa Barbara today to watch a slide show by Gary Eagan. Very cool stuff. We talked about rallies and I mentioned the White Stag, so he asked me how I did. When I replied 3rd, he looked straight at me, shook my hand, and said "well done." That's a huge compliment from a man who won 9 out of 10 straight rallies he entered, only losing the 10th due to a completely shredded rear tire. I wished I'd had more time to just pick his brain and swap stories.

As for the relax your arms thing, I'd learned that long ago and so now it's second nature to the point that I forget others don't know it yet. Interestingly, Gary talked about the same thing when several Ducati riders asked how he manages to stay on the bike for 20+ hours a day.

Ken
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'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
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Last edited by meese; Feb 19th, 2006 at 10:49 pm.
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post #18 of 19 Old Feb 19th, 2006, 11:27 pm
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There were no sport bikes when I got into real motorcycling in the late 60's. The Brit bikes were sporty, but leaked and did not always run well. The friends on Harleys swore as they tried to start them. The Japanese rides were reliable and cheap with small engines. You could not ride in the late 60's without knowing how to work on your ride because all bikes used breaker points for ignition timing.

And BMW's? A few had them in college, but they did not start well in the cold Champaign, IL winter. But they did do better than the two stroke oil burners.

Sport bikes just don't appeal to me.

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post #19 of 19 Old Feb 20th, 2006, 12:35 am
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
All I can do is consider the source.
well, joe, after a series of comments like the ones you've been spewing i'm tempted to tell you to get bent. but i see you are astride a wheezy old sportbike, so you are already bent. so, uhhh ... STAY bent. LOL


good luck in your deep delving ... is that like late braking?
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