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post #1 of 36 Old Feb 13th, 2006, 5:27 am Thread Starter
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Onboard crash video - not gory

From our sister site ducati.ms. This could happen to anyone. Just be careful out there.

The rider was wearing full leathers.

http://www.ridebehindvideos.com/videos/Accident20060210.wmv



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post #2 of 36 Old Feb 13th, 2006, 6:48 am
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Man, I can tell you the gear helps you from getting road rash, but not blunt impact.

I bet she's wondering and reviewing what she coulda done different to avoid it.

Saturday was two weeks for me and I just hit the ground at 60 mph, still can't do any manual labor for long cause of the ribs.

She break anything, Raffy?



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post #3 of 36 Old Feb 13th, 2006, 6:53 am Thread Starter
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I don't think so. The poster did not mention it. BTW, she has over 200K miles of riding as well as track time.



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post #4 of 36 Old Feb 13th, 2006, 8:01 am
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Unhappy

I am glad that the rider is fine? I hope so. She has a lot of experience so it shows that this can happen to anybody.
The only thing I can say is that I am never in the center lane on the highways. The HOV lane is open to bikes in most states and should be used. That way you only have traffic on only one side of you and not both. Just one worry less to have. Same for the far right lane unless there are a lot of exits to deal with, with morons jockeying for position to get on and off.
I don't think she could have done much in the lane she was in. The driver in the Honda was about to rear-end the white car (not looking ahead of course, cell phone??) and slammed on the brakes while moving into the next lane. That driver lost control and started spinning around. The rider was at the wrong place at the wrong time.
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post #5 of 36 Old Feb 13th, 2006, 8:31 am
 
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This story is on every riding site that I've visited this morning. HERE's A Link to her original thread on SoCalSportBikes.com, should anyone be interested to read what the rider had to say.

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post #6 of 36 Old Feb 13th, 2006, 1:06 pm
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That sucks. She braked hard, aimed for the gap, but there just wasn't enough room. The guy's lucky she wasn't in an SUV, or he'd be laying on the ground. He clearly didn't have control of his vehicle, and wasn't paying attention far enough ahead.

Notice how the first thing she does after coming to rest is look back at the bike?

Thanks for posting the original link, Joe. Glad to hear she came through in high spirits.

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post #7 of 36 Old Feb 13th, 2006, 2:01 pm
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I found something interesting ...

http://www.bmwlt.com/files/displayimage.php?pos=-50

I think we should post that on all different kind of automotive sites.

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post #8 of 36 Old Feb 14th, 2006, 12:32 am
 
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She was part of the problem as well. That wasn't just bad luck. She was applying gas even when the cars were slowing around her due to heavy traffic ahead. The moron who wasn't paying attention and then locked up his brakes could have been avoided if she had slowed earlier due to the heavy traffic ahead and proceeded with more caution.
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post #9 of 36 Old Feb 14th, 2006, 1:47 am
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Actually Jerrod, if you read through the original thread linked in Joe's post above, you'll find that she did slow as the traffic started to back up. She said she just had a feeling something wasn't right, but just didn't expect to get a car sideways in her lane (did you see it coming? be honest). All her planned escape routed vanished as he slid sideways across three lanes and the car to her right slowed at the same pace she did.

Even at the 45 mph she was traveling, there was only about 2 seconds between "what an idiot" and "oh $hit!" She swerved, braked hard, and took about the best evasive action you could expect in such a situation. The video does confirm all this if you watch it closely.

Even so, the guy claimed he had "swerved and swerved" to avoid an accident, when it's crystal clear that he wasn't paying attention, didn't know how to handle his car, and in fact caused the accident. The video will be her saving grace as this gets battled out by insurance companies and the courts.

If I still commuted daily, you bet I'd have a video setup after seeing this. Let's just all learn what we can from it, and hope it doesn't happen to one of us. (Sorry, Jim.)

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post #10 of 36 Old Feb 14th, 2006, 9:35 am
 
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Actually Ken I did read through the original thread linked to Joe's post above and I'm aware of what the rider said about the experience. And I'm not speaking of who's going to win in court either; that's pretty simple here. For her personal safety she was going too fast for the situation, while still giving gas to the motorcycle as the cars were slowing around her, you can hear the engine being throttled to maintain speed and the traffic on the right side was nearly stopped and stopping. The brake lights were flashing on the left side up ahead and she continued to proceed at the same speed - not good driving. "Slowing down" and being at the appropriate speed for the situation are two VERY different things. I don't need to foresee one particular problem to know that a myriad of problems could be forming and to adjust my speed to the situation so that I can react to all of them. If she wants to stay upright she needs to be more defensive... and that video would be impressive if she had avoided the car as she should have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
Actually Jerrod, if you read through the original thread linked in Joe's post above, you'll find that she did slow as the traffic started to back up. She said she just had a feeling something wasn't right, but just didn't expect to get a car sideways in her lane (did you see it coming? be honest). All her planned escape routed vanished as he slid sideways across three lanes and the car to her right slowed at the same pace she did.

Even at the 45 mph she was traveling, there was only about 2 seconds between "what an idiot" and "oh $hit!" She swerved, braked hard, and took about the best evasive action you could expect in such a situation. The video does confirm all this if you watch it closely.

Even so, the guy claimed he had "swerved and swerved" to avoid an accident, when it's crystal clear that he wasn't paying attention, didn't know how to handle his car, and in fact caused the accident. The video will be her saving grace as this gets battled out by insurance companies and the courts.

If I still commuted daily, you bet I'd have a video setup after seeing this. Let's just all learn what we can from it, and hope it doesn't happen to one of us. (Sorry, Jim.)
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post #11 of 36 Old Feb 14th, 2006, 10:56 am
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She could have stayed home too....

She lived it (and lived through it) in real time. What she saw was a Civic in the left lane with sufficient room to slow. You initially can't predict which one of the 10 or so drivers around her was going to be "idiot of the day", can you? Neither could she, and she had a much better view. I'd say she did a good job considering level of stupidity she was facing.


P.S. I hope to GOD the cop that showed up would have been smart enough see through the story the dipshit was spewing. Even without the video.

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post #12 of 36 Old Feb 14th, 2006, 11:36 am
 
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ca ca happens.

we like to think that with skill and experience we can avoid most any accident. but the fact is sometimes there is no way out, no matter how skillful or experienced you are.

ironically, the first step toward safety involves acceptance of the above fact.

there is not enough info in this particular video clip to decide whether she could have avoided it.
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post #13 of 36 Old Feb 14th, 2006, 12:40 pm
 
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I respectfully disagree guys.

She was moving too fast for the situation and this is a situation in which you always proceed with caution - always! The two fastest objects in the video hit each other.

Anyone from the stopped right side could have pulled in front of her too and she didn't allow for that - she should be inching along at this point - speed is the problem here. And yes, I'm quite sure that I would have more than likely avoided this problem.

Some bad situations are nearly unavoidable or totally unavoidable, but this wasn't one of them.



Quote:
Originally Posted by KBandit
ca ca happens.

we like to think that with skill and experience we can avoid most any accident. but the fact is sometimes there is no way out, no matter how skillful or experienced you are.

ironically, the first step toward safety involves acceptance of the above fact.

there is not enough info in this particular video clip to decide whether she could have avoided it.
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post #14 of 36 Old Feb 14th, 2006, 1:05 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerrod Maguire
I respectfully disagree guys.

She was moving too fast for the situation and this is a situation in which you always proceed with caution - always! The two fastest objects in the video hit each other.

Anyone from the stopped right side could have pulled in front of her too and she didn't allow for that - she should be inching along at this point - speed is the problem here. And yes, I'm quite sure that I would have more than likely avoided this problem.

Some bad situations are nearly unavoidable or totally unavoidable, but this wasn't one of them.
I have watched this several times now, and think that 90+% of us would have probably been doing the same thing she was in that lane. There was no reason to expect that idiot to do what he did, period. He was not very close to the car in front of him, and those two lanes were moving along pretty well until just before he freaked out for no apparent reason.

I know from 20 years of experience riding CA freeways that very often the left lanes can be moving pretty well when the right ones are nearly stopped due to busy exits etc. She was not in any danger of rear ending the cars in front of her, as she had WAY more space than is common on CA freeways available to her in which to slow down and stop in a very controlled, moderate manner.

You may have avoided this accident, but in California if you had slowed down as you seem to think she should have under those same circumstances, you would have been in high danger of being rear ended. CA drivers don't cater to wimpiness well at all.

I would rate that accident as practically unavoidable for her.

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post #15 of 36 Old Feb 14th, 2006, 3:17 pm
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerrod Maguire
She was part of the problem as well. That wasn't just bad luck. She was applying gas even when the cars were slowing around her due to heavy traffic ahead. The moron who wasn't paying attention and then locked up his brakes could have been avoided if she had slowed earlier due to the heavy traffic ahead and proceeded with more caution.
I completely disagree....

To me it looked like her riding was textbook. She just got caught up in a nasty situation with nowhere to go.
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post #16 of 36 Old Feb 14th, 2006, 5:01 pm
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So perhaps even at 45-50 mph she was moving to fast for the situation. But on these freeways, everyone is moving to fast for the situation. That's just how it is. You just cannot leave a sufficient space cushion around you at all times. In fact, the rider stated that she had just gotten clear of a pack of cars and had put a little distance between them and herself. And even if you try to leave space, someone will always fill it. So you do the best you can, go with the flow, and try to predict which car will invade your space. But even out here in this mess the chance of a car suddenly coming three lanes over is pretty slim, and nearly impossible to predict.

Maybe she thought she was safer from the left because there was an entire clear lane there. And maybe if there was a car to her left, they would've taken the brunt of the impact and she could've snuck by. Or maybe if she hadn't slowed at all, this guy would've spun out behind here. And the maybes can go on for forever.

But we are all aware of the dangers, and we all do what we can to minimize them. Short of driving a tank, or just staying home, you just have to accept that sometimes things happen and hopefully your instincts and experience will carry you through.

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Last edited by meese; Feb 14th, 2006 at 7:59 pm.
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post #17 of 36 Old Feb 15th, 2006, 4:16 pm
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerrod Maguire
I respectfully disagree guys.

She was moving too fast for the situation and this is a situation in which you always proceed with caution - always! The two fastest objects in the video hit each other.

Anyone from the stopped right side could have pulled in front of her too and she didn't allow for that - she should be inching along at this point - speed is the problem here. And yes, I'm quite sure that I would have more than likely avoided this problem.

Some bad situations are nearly unavoidable or totally unavoidable, but this wasn't one of them.
You better stay in Arizona. You cannot drive in the manner you describe in California. The drivers behind will get pissed if you start braking heavily with that much room in front of you. This will lead to someone tail gating your ass and trying to cut in front of you. Since when was it advised to not exceed the speed of cars in other lanes? You would get nowhere trying to drive like that here in CA with all the traffic. I watched that video over and over and can honestly say I would have crashed as well. Scary!

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post #18 of 36 Old Feb 16th, 2006, 10:23 am
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Andy,

I fully agree with you.

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post #19 of 36 Old Feb 16th, 2006, 7:25 pm
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I can not believe you guys call yourselves men. I am very dispointed. Yes very. What about the chick who came for first aid. Yes, the one with big, yup, camera shot was great.
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post #20 of 36 Old Feb 16th, 2006, 8:22 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman587
I can not believe you guys call yourselves men. I am very dispointed. Yes very. What about the chick who came for first aid. Yes, the one with big, yup, camera shot was great.
You, sir, are a trained observer.

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post #21 of 36 Old Feb 17th, 2006, 7:23 pm
 
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Gee... thanks for the advice Nathan, I was just about to pay your state a visit on my motorcycle; now I'll be ready. And Meese suggested earlier I should read more so that I might know what I'm talking about it. Very thoughtful and profound advice from the both of you.

Interestingly most of you guys who disagree with me so vehemently are CA residents. So let me state this, I wouldn't ride on your freeways nor would I lane split there either - I'm not much into russian roulette. And just because you guys drive recklessly on a regular basis doesn't make it anymore intelligent.

And from my experience over here on these freeways in Arizona many of the aggressive drivers have CA license plates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nswenson
You better stay in Arizona. You cannot drive in the manner you describe in California. The drivers behind will get pissed if you start braking heavily with that much room in front of you. This will lead to someone tail gating your ass and trying to cut in front of you. Since when was it advised to not exceed the speed of cars in other lanes? You would get nowhere trying to drive like that here in CA with all the traffic. I watched that video over and over and can honestly say I would have crashed as well. Scary!

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post #22 of 36 Old Feb 17th, 2006, 7:25 pm
 
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I thought the pot needed stirring again.
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post #23 of 36 Old Feb 17th, 2006, 9:29 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerrod Maguire
I thought the pot needed stirring again.
If you must, but what's the point? If you're not comfortable riding out here, that's fine. No one's forcing you.

But I have to say learning to ride on L.A. freeways has trained me very well for anything I've encountered so far in any country, on two wheels or four. You just learn to pay attention to everything, and to predict what traffic will do. I'd rather be able to safely deal with a myriad of distractions and maniacs that to only ride when the traffic is light, or it's safe, or perfectly dry, or . . .

And don't forget, most of the other drivers think riding a motorcycle at all is reckless, and some even feel all bikes should just be banned. My non-riding friends have given up trying to "save me" and some of them are starting to understand the passion that I have for it. They may not get it, but at least they show enough respect that they don't hassle me any more.

Wouldn't it be great if we could all do the same?

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post #24 of 36 Old Feb 17th, 2006, 9:49 pm
 
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Meese, every post you've made so far on this thread has been full of assumptions about what I did or didn't do or what I'm thinking; all of them incorrect. Perhaps your monikor should be "the sound of my voice" instead of "the voice of reason".
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post #25 of 36 Old Feb 17th, 2006, 11:28 pm
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Hm, it seems every one of your posts has been about what she did wrong, how you would never put yourself in such a dangerous situation, and how we're all suicidal. Does that about cover it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerrod Maguire
So let me state this, I wouldn't ride on your freeways nor would I lane split there either - I'm not much into russian roulette.
Does the above translate into something other than you're obviously not comfortable riding out here? Seems pretty clear to me. The only other word I came up with was scared, but I thought I'd give you the benefit of the doubt since I don't know you personally.

The rest of my most recent post talked about me and my experiences. I can't predict what you might do in a similar situation, except based on your statement above that you'd rather not ride than to ride here. That's your choice.

Also, if you're gonna completely ignore a first-person point of view (from the person actually riding the R1), and clear video evidence, and everyone else who has responded here then it doesn't really matter what you read or see, since nothing will alter your pre-conceived notions.

If you're gonna stir the pot, then you can't be surprised at what keeps coming to the surface.

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post #26 of 36 Old Feb 17th, 2006, 11:49 pm
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You Guys Are Funny

I will assume all of you have crashed once or twice. If not, quit your bitching!!! You are watching the video like the ride had the weekend to calculate out that she was going to do and where to go. Even though we all are aware of the A$$holes around us... it all happens in a slow-motion split second.

I was coming around a tight corner about 15 mph and a car crossed the double yellow line and pushed me off the road into the dirt... In a spilt second I was thinking "I can save it, I can save it" then - BAM, I hit a rock and did a double flip with a twist. The only thing I remember was getting up off the ground and my ankles hurt. My friends all gave me a 10 for my great dismount, everything you think is in control will quickly become out of your control completely!!!!

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post #27 of 36 Old Feb 18th, 2006, 8:29 am
 
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there are only two types of riders: those who have crashed and those that will crash. period.

i still don't think there is enuf evidence in the segment to decide whether she could have avoided it. but the last thing i'd expect a car to do on an expressway is to go into a four-wheel broadslide down the middle of the lane. i don't think there is any motorcycle braking system that can decelerate faster than a car going sideways.

but that's just my opinion.

one of the most amazing things about the tape is the way it captures the shock that happens moments after a crash. you go from having the wind in your face, enjoying the day, to being dropped suddenly onto the face of another planet. surreal. and yeah, i've visited that planet before.

regarding motorcycling in california: i still pinch myself at my good luck in living here. the state has its problems, for sure, but if there is a better place on earth to own and ride a motorcycle, i haven't found it. maybe the alps. i dunno. take potshots if you want. i'm in some canyon, winding coastal road, or high mountain pass having the last laugh. LOL.

BTW ... how is the young lady doing? has anyone heard? any updates?

one more point ... is this topic really worth fighting over?
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post #28 of 36 Old Feb 18th, 2006, 8:50 am
 
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Learn from the video Meese!

I will conclude my interest in this thread by getting back to my original point... may you learn from this video and quit defending her.

I would have driven more slowly in her situation... and I would have covered those brakes, reacting sooner and stopping quicker than she did as well (you don't point a bike for an opening and stop quickly at the same time). But more importantly... I would have clearly moved to the left - outside lane - if I were to maintain her speed; because I would've been even more concerned about someone on the right (in the stopped traffic) pulling out in front of me than what did unfortunately happen. She left both sides to deal with and that's poor chess playing anyway you slice it and not good defensive riding; the more simultaneous variables the slower the reaction time - proven time and time again. Poor driving... is poor driving - California is no excuse.

Meese, it's pretty clear that you are defending your own habits and not hers in this thread. If you leave all these variables open to you while riding on your motorcycle, may you have "faith" in a higher power because you'll probably need it.
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post #29 of 36 Old Feb 18th, 2006, 8:56 am
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You haven't got clue what you would have done faced with that situation in real time, only what you would like to have done. This is all just Monday morning quarterbacking. My opinion.

Dave Hoogerland

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post #30 of 36 Old Feb 18th, 2006, 8:57 am
 
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one more point ... is this topic really worth fighting over?[/QUOTE]

Very much so Gerhard... if I can help keep Meese upright and safe, as well as a few others following this post, it's worth arguing over. There's something to be learned from this video, not everything was done correctly.
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post #31 of 36 Old Feb 18th, 2006, 10:44 am
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Ooooooooooo, I got dinged for that one.

Dave Hoogerland

'08 Triumph Tiger 1050 ABS
'02 K1200LTC "The Silver Snoopy" (gone but not forgotten)
'08 Can-Am Spyder "???"

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post #32 of 36 Old Feb 18th, 2006, 1:56 pm
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I appreciate the thoughts, Jerrod, but you gotta ride how you think is best, and I gotta do the same. I'd rather have the skills and reflexes to deal with heavy traffic when I need to, rather than avoid it altogether. If you think you would have used that two second warning better, then if you're ever in that situation I hope you're right.

But Dave's got it right. Unless it's your life on the line, it's all just rhetoric.

BTW, Dawn is doing fine, though still quite sore. She's waiting for the police report so she can start the insurance proceedings and get her bike fixed. I hope she nails him.

Ken
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Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #33 of 36 Old Feb 18th, 2006, 6:04 pm
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JOE, Can you give us some more info on the equipment that she was using. I think I would like to set up such a system. Thanks in advance,
Stuart
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post #34 of 36 Old Feb 18th, 2006, 7:52 pm
 
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I agree... that video/camera system is worth looking into. Anyone have information on that? It would be appreciated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLIMSWITCH903
JOE, Can you give us some more info on the equipment that she was using. I think I would like to set up such a system. Thanks in advance,
Stuart
Slimswitch903
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post #35 of 36 Old Feb 18th, 2006, 8:09 pm
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Dawn talks about her camera setup in the link that Joe posted above. She gives details on model numbers, how she set it up, what she learned, etc.

And from her own website:

My Review on my HelmetCam and Competitors:
http://www.smoothcurvesracing.com/fo...opic.php?t=280

My Review on my Sony HC-42
http://www.smoothcurvesracing.com/fo...opic.php?t=279

Ken
Pacific NorthWet
'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#143, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032


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Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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Last edited by meese; Feb 18th, 2006 at 11:41 pm.
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post #36 of 36 Old Feb 18th, 2006, 8:59 pm
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Here is some more info from Dawn, if you want to read more.

http://www.smoothcurvesracing.com/fo...hp?p=2460#2460

"In reality, it was all I could do to just not die."

Lot of second guessing going on, even from her.

Just Go
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