BMWNA has finally pushed me... - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 15 Old Nov 15th, 2009, 10:26 am Thread Starter
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BMWNA has finally pushed me...

to the point I will never buy another vehicle from BMW, of any type. OK, that's my rant. I know many of you have trouble free miles and for that I am glad for you.

The purpose of this post is to ask if anyone has experienced anything similar to what I will describe and/ or ask your opinion of how to proceed.

I recently had another failure (4th in 24,000 miles on an 08) that I alluded to in a few posts but did not speak out about in good faith that BMW would do the right thing. It appears the good faith is gone.

History:

I bought this bike, new in May 2008.

1. Failure 1, final drive, occurred on August 31, 2008 with 7,117 miles on it during a tour with my wife. We were in W. Va at the time and found oil leaking from the final drive. Limped it to the dealer, dropped it off on September 3 and picked it up on September 19, only to find half way home that there was another problem- See 2.

2. On September 19, 2008, as I picked up the bike from the final drive repair I noticed it felt like it lacked power. I mentioned it to the mechanic, but thought maybe I was hyper-sensitive having just come off their loaner, a K1200GT. I got half way home and started playing with the clutch, rapid roll ons and rapid roll offs. The symptoms were clear- it would rev without catching and the engine would slowly catch up. I stopped, called the dealer, and the mechanic said, "sounds like the clutch." So I immediately turn around and drop the bike off. It's September 19, 2008 and bike has 7262 miles. I pick the bike up on October 3, 2008. It had been in the shop for 28 consecutive days.

3. On March 20, 2009, I took the bike for the annual brake flush and I pointed out a bubble of oil on the transmission housing. Mechanic stated I had a seal leak and they would repair it. The bike was repaired and I picked it up on April 14, 2009, The bike had been in the shop a total of 25 consecutive days. Total consecutive days in the shop since purchase= 53 days.

4. On September 26, 2009, during a NE trip with my wife, the clutch started slipping pretty severely just after we left NY city. I stopped, called my dealer to find out when they closed and to tell them what was happening. Determined I couldn't make it to the shop in time, so we drove home to NC. As long as I didn't need immediate, quick power we were moving along. The slipping got worse on the way home and I could make it slip in 3rd on up. I didn't try 1st or 2nd- I didn't wanna mess with it too much for fear I'd be stranded far from home. I dropped the bike off September 29, 2009 with 24,557 miles on it. It had about 23,000 something on it when I called the dealer to notify them of the problem. BMWNA was made aware immediately, as they were in every other failure I've had, and were standing by for the analysis. NOTE: On October 20, 2009, as per NC Lemon Law, I sent a letter to BMW stating I wanted a replacement of the motorcycle. The bike sat in the shop until the last 2 weeks, when they were finally able to tear into it and analyze it. BMWNA calls me on November 13, 2009, and states their field engineer has analyzed the issue, no fluid was found in the clutch housing, and therefore it is not a warranty issue and I would have to take care of it myself (they would pay $500.00 toward repair as a "good faith" gesture since it sat so long). The bike had been in the shop for 45 consecutive days this last time before this call was made to me. I asked them, if it was not fluid, then what was the problem- I never got an answer. I told BMWNA I spoke to the mechanic prior to their call and they stated that they confirmed the symptoms before repair, and the clutch and all plates were within tolerance, so it's not a wear issue (clutch plate = 5.25mm, pressure plate= 8.58mm, clutch carrier=7.44mm). At this point in the call, I was pissed but I cooly told the rep that I was insulted and as far as I was concerned they still had not determined the problem so repairs were impossible and their position was ridiculous. I told him not to call me to insult me with a ridiculous offer as they had suggested and I informed him that I would not be picking the bike up, ever, period.

SO now, I don't want another bike from BMW. I want my money back. NC Lemon law states that if a manufacturer unreasonably refuses to fix their problems, I am eligible for treble damages. That's what I want now.

This is what I plan to do. I will write the NC Attorney General with the info and all repair paperwork and correspondence between me and BMWNA and ask if they will intervene on my behalf- they have a form on-line and state that in some cases they will intervene. I believe I'll also follow through this time and inform MCN so they can publish this matter publicly.

If the AG is unable to intervene, I will retain an attorney familiar with consumer law/ lemon law and I will pursue this matter further.

Oh yeah, one piece of info that I thought could be relevant- I have all the track data from my gps going back to May 4, 2009. Track data shows every trip I've ever made, speeds traveled, time elapsed between points, etc. I believe this data could be useful if they try to make an argument that maybe, somehow, I abused the bike- [email protected]@, it is in mint condition except for their crap failures.

OK, this was a useful exercise at writing the facts down if nothing else. So, if you've stuck with me here, anyone have a similar experience and can provide advice, or is their any advice based on what I've written? PM's are welcome if you'd rather not post publicly.

Norwood and LaNett Dennis
12 K1600 GTL
08 K1200LT (sold)
07 Ural Gear-Up Arctic (for sale to get a Spyder)
01 K1200LT (sold)

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post #2 of 15 Old Nov 15th, 2009, 11:13 am
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Re: BMWNA has finally pushed me...

Norwood,
Good luck to you on the lemon law claim. If I were you, I would be pursuing this in exactly the same way.

I was thinking about the issues you've had and wondered if it has anything to do with the length of time that BMW bikes may sit in a New Jersey storage warehouse awaiting a sale to a dealer? BMW built up a large inventory of unsold LT's and I would be curious as to when your bike was built and when you actually took possession of it. We all know inactivity is the worst thing for the seals in a bike or any vehicle and I would wonder if the tolerance is even less when the bike is brand new and placed in storage for an extended period? I know this doesn't solve your problem, but it might be interesting to know.

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post #3 of 15 Old Nov 15th, 2009, 11:19 am
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Re: BMWNA has finally pushed me...

It's pretty clear to me that you have a case for the lemon laws...

Good luck getting BMWNA to cooperate...
If your bike has been in the shop for more than 30 consecutive days without a repair, I do believe you should be able to get a refund...

Time to hire a lawyer for sure....

Good luck

John

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post #4 of 15 Old Nov 15th, 2009, 11:27 am Thread Starter
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Re: BMWNA has finally pushed me...

Thank you, guys. I'm bouncing back and forth between the forum, my letter to the AG, and all my paperwork to get the dates, etc. and write up my complaint.

And John, I know you don't like whiners and appreciate that you didn't jump all over me. My intent is not to whine or cause fear. I just want to know if there is anything I am not considering in this, or if I am being unreasonable, or if anyone has traveled this road and has advice that may be helpful. This is not to say I will not share my experience with anyone who will listen concerning BMW, and gladly give my advice concerning their products and service from this day forward.

I am fully prepared to spend my money (which I fully intend to recoup) on an attorney to pursue this to the end.

Norwood and LaNett Dennis
12 K1600 GTL
08 K1200LT (sold)
07 Ural Gear-Up Arctic (for sale to get a Spyder)
01 K1200LT (sold)

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post #5 of 15 Old Nov 15th, 2009, 11:29 am
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Re: BMWNA has finally pushed me...

I'm sorry you got the short end of the stick. Truly sorry your dealer couldn't satisfy you. Customer service sux these days. Good luck with your quest. Keep us posted.

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post #6 of 15 Old Nov 15th, 2009, 8:10 pm
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Re: BMWNA has finally pushed me...

Norwood:

I hate it that you are having such bad luck with such a good machine.

I wish you the best of luck in dealing with BMWNA, hope they see the error of their ways and do right. I hate dealing with arrogant folks like what you seem to be dealing with.

Keep us posted.

B D R
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post #7 of 15 Old Nov 15th, 2009, 9:32 pm
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Re: BMWNA has finally pushed me...

Hire a lawyer?? I bet BMWNA has a bunch of lawyers. But at least it's a start.

"“People are more violently opposed to fur than leather because it's safer to harass rich women than motorcycle gangs."
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post #8 of 15 Old Nov 15th, 2009, 9:58 pm
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Re: BMWNA has finally pushed me...

Hi, Norwood. I hate to hear of more troubles with your LT. I surely hoped all the bugs were out of it some time ago. This just isn't the case. I think you're on the right track going after BMWNA through the NC Lemon Laws. It may take an attorney well-versed in Lemon Laws. Should be one of those in Raleigh. Swing a dead cat, it's bound to hit some sort of lawyer.

I just looked at the NC Lemon Law web page. One way they may be able to refute the last event is that the problem occurs in a part of the vehicle covered by the warranty. Clutches, etc. are "wear items" and may not be covered. Sounds like even if that one gets kicked out, you may be OK with the part about having the vehicle out of service for 20 or more business days in 12 months. The reasonable number of repair attempts, four or more times for the same complaint won't apply, but the number of day is joined by an "or", not an "and".

Go get 'em, Norwood. Or as I say to my Yorkshire "Terrorist" when she sees the neighbor's cats in the back yard, "Sic 'em!" And I don't consider what you've posted as whining. You stated facts, made your position clear, and stated what it will take to rectify the situation. Good luck!

Lee
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post #9 of 15 Old Nov 15th, 2009, 10:58 pm
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Re: BMWNA has finally pushed me...

+1 to Windman - just get a lawyer to send a letter to the dealer and they will jump.

Tvguy
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post #10 of 15 Old Nov 16th, 2009, 6:47 am
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Re: BMWNA has finally pushed me...

It sounds like you have been more than patient and that corporate BMW owes you a new bike. Too bad the corporate offices will make you jump through hoops to prove what they already know and that it they manufactured a LEMON. The vast majority ( my guess is around 98% + ) of the bikes built are extremely reliable and well built, but when one bites the dust, the company should step up and do the right thing early and not piss off everyone in the process.

Seems that you will have to drag corporate BMW into the arena and hopefully you'll have the support of your local dealer. They can make a big difference in helping you settle your claim. Good luck on your unfortunate legal claim. BMW could really strengthen their credibility if they would start to do the right thing early instead of dragging out the inevitable.

Dano
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post #11 of 15 Old Nov 16th, 2009, 8:26 am
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Re: BMWNA has finally pushed me...

In my experience with the Texas Lemon Law, I had an "option" of "mediation". I accepted that as it did NOT impact my future rights.

The "representative" was a retired manufacturer rep. He was able to make "some" decisions. Clearly he would not offer replacement.

In hindsight, they were able to resolve problems that lingered through warranty.

There were other problems that cropped up after my "legal" rights regarding the Lemon Law expired. That would be my concern.. You have "lost" a large amount of time on your warranty during "shop time".

On a bright side.. you say you were able to use one of the "loaners"... in some ways a "better" machine... especially that it did not fail while you rode it.. Curious.. why did the loaner not fail like the LT? just wondering...

So, at this point I would say, you have "given them every opportunity" to resolve the problem and have not "abused" it's particular design limitations.. (you didn't race the bike, etc)
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post #12 of 15 Old Nov 16th, 2009, 9:09 am
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Re: BMWNA has finally pushed me...

My brother once owned a Buick which was replaced under Kansas Lemon Law, so it does happen. I think retaining an attorney should start the ball rolling once BMW knows you're serious.

Regarding the clutch slippage, contamination, wear, or a weak spring are the most common causes. I suppose the friction disc may be contaminated in some fashion from the factory but I doubt that BMW would ever admit that. It is also possible that you may have glazed the plate if you are prone to slipping the clutch when you shift. It and the disc can become polished and will then slip. This is rare but can happen. Make sure your clutch lever is completely out before rolling on the throttle. Basically the only time you want the clutch to slip is coming off a stop in first gear. It will always slip some, but the less the better.

Good luck. I hope you get a new one from them.


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post #13 of 15 Old Nov 16th, 2009, 2:41 pm
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Re: BMWNA has finally pushed me...

Hey Norwood, what a terrible story.
when you spend the kind of money these things cost, and deal with a "premium" brand, there shouldn't be so much nonsense.
The lengths of time your bike sat waiting to be worked on is very disappointing as well. There's really no excuse for a repair taking that long, especially during the riding season. I personally view that as being as disapointing as the responses you're getting from BMWNA on the warranty claim.
I hope you're able to get that all straightened out and be back with the breeze in your hair in no time!

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post #14 of 15 Old Nov 16th, 2009, 7:08 pm
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Re: BMWNA has finally pushed me...

Here in Michigan the lemon law does not apply to motorcycles and a couple of other types of vehicles. Hopefully, that's no the case in NC. Good luck with your case.

Matt
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post #15 of 15 Old Nov 18th, 2009, 7:37 am Thread Starter
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Re: BMWNA has finally pushed me...

I want to update and lock this thread. First, I will say that if I am wrong, I will admit it. OK, it appears I was wrong. I automatically assumed that this was another waranty defect as I've had several already. I was extremely angry.

I finally got the diagnosis and it turns out that the clutch carrier was overheated, and I cannot dispute that. There may have been a period when I was stuck in highway traffic for a longggg timmmee with no way out because we were crossing a bridge. In hindsight and recalling the conversations I had with BMW and the dealer, I must admit that they were always polite and professional, and with what I know now, reasonable in their efforts to satisfy me. It's just that all the facts weren't out there for me to see until today. I will have to reevaluate my "riding" style and maybe ride a little more conservatively...

We're working this out so it appears I'll have my LT for a little while longer. Can't say I don't look forward to it.

Any mod stumbling across this, please lock it.

Norwood and LaNett Dennis
12 K1600 GTL
08 K1200LT (sold)
07 Ural Gear-Up Arctic (for sale to get a Spyder)
01 K1200LT (sold)

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