Will Harley Ever Learn? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 46 Old Jan 24th, 2006, 9:22 pm Thread Starter
 
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Will Harley Ever Learn?

I just got the The March 06 Cycle World via my Zinio reader and it has a nice comparison on the big three tourers: the LT, the Wing and the Road King. One portion of their discussion centered on the nav systems offered on the three bikes and the system on the HD--an HD that costs 32K, mind you--"isn't actually a typical GPS receiver as much as it is a turn by turn guidance device," according to CW. "It doesn't display a map like other systems do, providing only step by step directions using route number, street names and left-turn/right-turn arrows. It also doesn't let you know where you are; instead, you program in a city, an address or an intersection and the system displays the directions to that destination three lines at a time." Hmmmm....no addy, no directions or map????

CW goes on to state that the "screen isn't as legible as the Honda's or the BMW's" as the info is "displayed in grayish LCD characters on a pinkish-red background that can be hard to decipher under some lighting conditions. Plus, the source disk has to be in the cd player for the system to function, so you can't listen to your music cds while the guidance system is active."

Whadahell? ya might as well use a damned map and save yourself 1100 bucks....

By the way--the wing edged out the LT this year by a hair....I won't tell ya why--don't want to spoil yer readin pleasure any more than i already have....

I just don't get it--are the r-d folks at HD living in this century, or what???
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post #2 of 46 Old Jan 24th, 2006, 9:48 pm
 
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Originally Posted by NevadaNez
I just don't get it--are the r-d folks at HD living in this century, or what???
Short answer... No.


Did HD mention pricing for the 8 track?
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post #3 of 46 Old Jan 24th, 2006, 10:01 pm
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Sounds like the original (Euro style) GPS first offered on the LT. It's a cost-saving measure, no more.



And what exactly does Harley have to learn? They sell a bazillion bikes a year, and probably much more swag than bikes. Note that I'm not interested in buying one, but there are literally thousands who gladly do buy them every year.

They do know their target market.

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Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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Last edited by meese; Jan 24th, 2006 at 10:09 pm.
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post #4 of 46 Old Jan 24th, 2006, 10:06 pm
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The last press releases I saw was that HD was using a HD branded version of the Garmin Quest.

http://www.personaltechpipeline.com/163104218
http://www.garmin.com/products/quest2/
http://www.garmin.com/pressroom/corporate/051605.html

BTW, they don't have it all wrong. Their H-K audio system is an integrated unit that includes a 6-disc CD changer with MP3 playback, XM Radio, and Bluetooth Cellphone integration. CB and FRS are trouble free integration in the HD system.

BMW took what, 4 tries to get a intercom system that works? And it's still a complete bitch to get CB working.


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post #5 of 46 Old Jan 24th, 2006, 10:42 pm
 
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I personally think that BMW can learn a lot from H-D.
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post #6 of 46 Old Jan 24th, 2006, 10:54 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljeffe
The last press releases I saw was that HD was using a HD branded version of the Garmin Quest.
Yep they are using it on the Buell too.

"The Buell™ Quest™ Portable Navigation System by Garmin® delivers powerful navigation features in an easy-to-use device. Road-tested and waterproof, it mounts to Ulysses™ models. An ear piece fits comfortably under your helmet to hear the directions that will guide you along your route"

http://www.buell.com/en_us/bikes_gear/gps/index.asp

Oh and I have to agree with Bruce.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brucecha
I personally think that BMW can learn a lot from H-D.
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post #7 of 46 Old Jan 24th, 2006, 11:01 pm
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Can you say "Ford"?

I've been banished from HD.. so, kinda pointless...

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post #8 of 46 Old Jan 25th, 2006, 12:09 am
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Obviously, the HD focus groups found that after a twelve-pack or so, the simplified navigational system worked better for their clientele.

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post #9 of 46 Old Jan 25th, 2006, 2:47 am
 
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Red face As sad as the Harley unit is...

I just read the new rider mag, and they review the '06 GoldWing. They said that the new Wing's built-in GPS unit can only store ONE route at a time...and that route cannot end at the same place that you start! (aka: your Home) One freakin' route at a time! You're kidding me, right?!?!
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post #10 of 46 Old Jan 25th, 2006, 5:42 am
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Cool 5.2 billion profit 2005 for Harley

They "H.D." seem to have a winning formula, hard for me to understand.
2 - Wheel Tuesday, a show on Speed channel, stated that Harley Davidson made 5.2 Billion dollars in 2005. What ever they do it seems to equate to huge profits.

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post #11 of 46 Old Jan 25th, 2006, 5:59 am
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Originally Posted by brucecha
I personally think that BMW can learn a lot from H-D.
Bruce C
I think the only thing that BMW can learn from HD would be in marketing.
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post #12 of 46 Old Jan 25th, 2006, 6:03 am Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
Sounds like the original (Euro style) GPS first offered on the LT. It's a cost-saving measure, no more.



And what exactly does Harley have to learn? They sell a bazillion bikes a year, and probably much more swag than bikes. Note that I'm not interested in buying one, but there are literally thousands who gladly do buy them every year.

They do know their target market.
Point well taken. I stand corrected.
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post #13 of 46 Old Jan 25th, 2006, 6:08 am
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Originally Posted by NevadaNez
I just got the The March 06 Cycle World via my Zinio reader and it has a nice comparison on the big three tourers: the LT, the Wing and the Road King.
I haven't read the article so I'm taking your first sentence at face value. If the above is correct Cycle World biased their test to give results they wanted.

The Road King isn't the bike to test against the LT & the Wing. Look instead to the Ultra, or the Roadglide. Both are much upgraded from the Road King.

No doubt the GPS you quote could be improved, but then a Garmin will bolt to any vehicle..........& cost less than units offered by motorcycle manufacturers.

As for "learning", all three could learn from each other. The Wing & HD could use power windshields. BMW could use a locking sidestand & a rear drive that you could reasonably expect to get you home.............The list is longer & double ended, but we've beaten that horse enough.

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post #14 of 46 Old Jan 25th, 2006, 6:10 am
 
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Silly Amarikins

Oh what narrow perspectives us North Americans can have. I wonder what the average BMW rider thinks about Harley Davidson who lives in Germany. Probably thinks that the bikes are a joke and that BMW could teach those stoopeed Americans a thing or two about marketing.
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post #15 of 46 Old Jan 25th, 2006, 6:13 am Thread Starter
 
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I guess what i was really trying to say here is that i cannot understand the desire to have one when so many other, IMHO, better bikes available. The cheesy nav system just leapt out at me as a glaring example of why I felt this way. Add to this the fact that the bike in question was a Screamin Eagle model that sold for $32K and i'm simply dumbfounded that anyone in their right minds--with tons of discretionary income or not--would purchase this bike.

BTW, the article goes on to discuss the usual areas of motorcycle critiques and Harley finished last in just about every area....

And finally, on a personal note, when i came breezin in the other day on the LT, my neighbor, who owns an 04 Road King, came running over and drooled all over the LT. Then he stated that while he wasn't sorry he bought his bike, in just about every regard the beemer was superior. I didn't know what to say that wouldn't hurt his feelings.

I guess Harley does know its market but how can so many people be fooled by appearances so many times....
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post #16 of 46 Old Jan 25th, 2006, 6:21 am Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by messenger13
Oh what narrow perspectives us North Americans can have. I wonder what the average BMW rider thinks about Harley Davidson who lives in Germany. Probably thinks that the bikes are a joke and that BMW could teach those stoopeed Americans a thing or two about marketing.
it isn't so much the narrow perspective, Joe--I'd buy a wing, a duck, a venture Royale, (as would many others) etc, but i just cannot justify spending the amount of $$$ on the HD--for what you get in return--when so many other bikes are simply better machines. BMW could learn a LOT from HD in the marketing department but with that said, just because a zillion people believe in something doesn't make it good, right, or better. But this whole discussion has been done to death elsewhere--I was just dumbfounded on the choice of a nav system and didn't make it clear enough in the initial post.
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post #17 of 46 Old Jan 25th, 2006, 6:29 am Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Jinks
I haven't read the article so I'm taking your first sentence at face value. If the above is correct Cycle World biased their test to give results they wanted.
The list is longer & double ended, but we've beaten that horse enough.
! more thing and I'll never mention this again here because it HAS been neaten to death-here and in a thousand other places--the tested bike was NOT the RK--it was their top of the line, Screamin Eagle Ultra Classic Elctra Glide at $33,100--my primary reason for shaking my head at the R-D folks who would put a dinosaur on such a seemingly modern and nice bike.

*licking wounds, taking my ball and going home*
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post #18 of 46 Old Jan 25th, 2006, 6:30 am
 
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And I completely understood your initial post and agree with it 100%. I just think it's funny when we try to compare HD and BMW. They are two completely different companies, based out of two completely different countries, with two completely different business models, and mentalities. Both manufacture motorcycles...but that where the likeness begins and ENDS.

Of course...I could be wrong. I'm just a stoopeed Amarikin too.
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post #19 of 46 Old Jan 25th, 2006, 6:50 am
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Oh what narrow perspectives us North Americans can have. I wonder what the average BMW rider thinks about Harley Davidson who lives in Germany. Probably thinks that the bikes are a joke and that BMW could teach those stoopeed Americans a thing or two about marketing.
That may be true in Germany but the average Joe here doesn't even know BMW makes motorcycles. I can't tell you how many times people look at my bike and then notice the BMW emblem. The next words are "I didn't know BMW made motorcycles".
Unless you live under a rock everyone knows about HD in this country from a four your old to a 90 year old grandmother. Also most riders aspire to have one because they believe its the best bike out there........largely due to marketing.
In this area the German auto manufactures do a very good job of promoting their products. BMW cars and SUV's are everywhere and most of these consumers appreciate and are aware of the engineering and quality of the vehicles that they drive.
I would just like to see BMW do a better job at marketing there bikes, they could take a lesson or two from HD.
I also might add that HD aftermarket accessories are second to none.
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post #20 of 46 Old Jan 25th, 2006, 6:50 am
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Originally Posted by brucecha
I personally think that BMW can learn a lot from H-D.
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post #21 of 46 Old Jan 25th, 2006, 6:53 am Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by messenger13
And I completely understood your initial post and agree with it 100%. I just think it's funny when we try to compare HD and BMW. They are two completely different companies, based out of two completely different countries, with two completely different business models, and mentalities. Both manufacture motorcycles...but that where the likeness begins and ENDS.

Of course...I could be wrong. I'm just a stoopeed Amarikin too.
Well, then that makes me yet another stoopeeed Amarikin too cuz i'm in total agreement!
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post #23 of 46 Old Jan 25th, 2006, 9:40 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NevadaNez
I just got the The March 06 Cycle World via my Zinio reader and it has a nice comparison on the big three tourers: the LT, the Wing and the Road King.
By the way--the wing edged out the LT this year by a hair....I won't tell ya why--don't want to spoil yer readin pleasure any more than i already have....

I just don't get it--are the r-d folks at HD living in this century, or what???
MCN edged the LT over the wing a tad I just read that a couple weeks back.

As far as Hd not learning, well they have. if they havn't they would not be making higher profits each year. it's all about the money to any manufacture

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post #24 of 46 Old Jan 25th, 2006, 9:47 am
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Originally Posted by NevadaNez
I guess what i was really trying to say here is that i cannot understand the desire to have one when so many other, IMHO, better bikes available. The cheesy nav system just leapt out at me as a glaring example of why I felt this way. Add to this the fact that the bike in question was a Screamin Eagle model that sold for $32K and i'm simply dumbfounded that anyone in their right minds--with tons of discretionary income or not--would purchase this bike.

BTW, the article goes on to discuss the usual areas of motorcycle critiques and Harley finished last in just about every area....

And finally, on a personal note, when i came breezin in the other day on the LT, my neighbor, who owns an 04 Road King, came running over and drooled all over the LT. Then he stated that while he wasn't sorry he bought his bike, in just about every regard the beemer was superior. I didn't know what to say that wouldn't hurt his feelings.

I guess Harley does know its market but how can so many people be fooled by appearances so many times....

there is nothing wrong with a Harly, they are pretty dependable as a rule, they handle well for cruising which many people love to do, it;s all about bneing happy with your riding style. not everyone wants to travel from coast to coast on a bike, not everyone wants to tear up the twisties. and it's a American product which was the hardest thing for me to get away from when I bought the bmw's
The Hd is much less cost wise to maintain as well

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post #25 of 46 Old Jan 25th, 2006, 10:04 am
 
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Originally Posted by NevadaNez
And finally, on a personal note, when i came breezin in the other day on the LT, my neighbor, who owns an 04 Road King, came running over and drooled all over the LT. Then he stated that while he wasn't sorry he bought his bike, in just about every regard the beemer was superior. I didn't know what to say that wouldn't hurt his feelings.

I guess Harley does know its market but how can so many people be fooled by appearances so many times....
i don't think you have to worry about hurting his feelings. most harley riders are REPEAT buyers ... they have owned hawgs in the past and they know ed zachary what they are buying.

riding a harley makes them happy. period. they recognize that other bikes are superior in certain ways but they want a harley. what's wrong with that?

i'll bet your neighbor was just being courteous to you, and if he had to do it again, he'd still buy a harley. more power to him.

years ago there was a harley advertisement that pretty much summed up the appeal of a harley. the ad showed a plastic zippo cigarette lighter and an old-style chrome cigarette lighter that you flip open and turn a thumbwheel. when the zippo lighter gets used up you throw it away. when the chrome lighter runs out of fluid you refill it. it was an ingenious way to demonstrate the appeal of a different type of engineering.

harleys aren't the fastest or the lightest or the most modern, but they have a timeless appeal that for some is irresistable. and personally, i'm glad for it. most of the people i've met who ride them are real characters, and the world would be a lesser place if they, and harley, weren't around.
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post #26 of 46 Old Jan 25th, 2006, 11:30 am
 
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Originally Posted by nplenzick
I think the only thing that BMW can learn from HD would be in marketing.
IMO BMW can also learn a lot about product quality from HD. I'm a devoted BMW owner and rider today for the performance I get from my machines, but I have owned a few HDs in recent years and the HD quality surpasses that of the BMW. Granted, HD is a much simpler and low tech product, but the quality is incredible. For me personally, I did not have one warranty issue on three different HDs between 99 and 05. Contrary, In the first six months of ownership of my BMWs, I had 3 warranty issues.
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post #27 of 46 Old Jan 25th, 2006, 1:23 pm
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post #28 of 46 Old Jan 25th, 2006, 6:31 pm Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by KBandit

harleys aren't the fastest or the lightest or the most modern, but they have a timeless appeal that for some is irresistable. and personally, i'm glad for it. most of the people i've met who ride them are real characters, and the world would be a lesser place if they, and harley, weren't around.

Well said.....
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post #29 of 46 Old Jan 25th, 2006, 8:24 pm
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Harley is the first company to have a stereo system with XM and bluetooth for your cell phone built in not to mention the fact you can get an mp3 setup as an option. They also now have LED lighting. They are slow to progress at some things but lead at others.

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post #30 of 46 Old Feb 1st, 2006, 10:50 pm
 
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....I would just like to see BMW do a better job at marketing there bikes, they could take a lesson or two from HD.
I also might add that HD aftermarket accessories are second to none.[/QUOTE]


I hope BMW doesn't improve their marketing here in the states because it would probably work and I kind of like the fact that my bike.... gives me that thrill when you get that envious look "What the hell kind of bike is that"?
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post #31 of 46 Old Feb 2nd, 2006, 7:49 am
 
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I have a very good freind that just replaced his '03 Ultra with an '06 Ultra and he's pissed because the stereo is so complicated. He's a simple guy who likes a simple bike. I didn't used to "get it" but I do now.

That being said I don't think they are worth half what they get for them and I still wouldn't own one at any price.

I need something modern, smooth and quiet.
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post #32 of 46 Old Oct 11th, 2006, 10:08 am
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Things BMW Could learn

I for one thing BMW could learn to make sure they customers have a Dealer network out there who can repair and service their bikes, instead of forcing them out of business. I have an Ultra Classic, and while I recognize the BMW is a much nicer ride, and a superior bike in almost all respects, I haven't had nearly as much trouble with my Harley as I have had with my LT. PLUS, you can talk all you want about how crappy the Harley's are, but they do hold their resale better than any other bike out there. I realize that is changing as I speak, but still a used Harley holds it value much better than a LT. I paid $6900 for a 2000 LT with 8500 miles on it last November. Bet you would be hard pressed to buy any used 2000 Harley of any model (except a sportster) for $6800.00 I am not defending Harley Davidson necessarily as much as I am being critical of BMW. I am over 100 miles from the nearest dealer, and they are so busy trying to service their customers, it takes me 3 weeks to get the bike in for service! If I have to leave my Harley for more than a day, my dealer lets me ride a Demo bike if I want one, and if he has one that isn't out. I know all Harley Dealer's aren't like that either, but BMW could learn some things from Harley too. Their bikes seem to be so over engineered, they don't hold up, and the cost of repairs is high. HD may stand for "Hundred Dollars", but BMW stands for "Break My Wallet". Having said that, I still like my BMW better!!! mrjrlin.
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post #33 of 46 Old Oct 11th, 2006, 2:25 pm
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I went the Harley route myself in 2000, and I was only mildly happy with the bike. Top heavy, crude, and 1,500 mile service intervals, lots of overheating and constant valve adjustments. My 3 BMWs since have been very refined and well thought out, reliable machines.

They do hold their value though, I sold mine for more than I paid for it new. Try that with any other brand. Harley is a successfully marketed mystique, which has the entire world screaming for more. I think production has about doubled 2000-2005, and they still are scarce in the showrooms, and command a premium upon resale.

H-D has been doing just what BMW is doing to their dealers, making them upgrade to large, showy, cookie-cutter type dealerships at cost of 2 to 3 million dollars each, forcing out the smaller and storefront dealers. It's just that Harley maintains dealers about 15-20 miles apart from each other, whereas BMW dealers are from 60 to hundreds of miles apart.

I still buy the stock if not the bikes...
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post #34 of 46 Old Oct 11th, 2006, 3:08 pm
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Question George S

"I went the Harley route myself in 2000, and I was only mildly happy with the bike. Top heavy, crude, and 1,500 mile service intervals, lots of overheating and constant valve adjustments. My 3 BMWs since have been very refined and well thought out, reliable machines."

What model Harley did you have that needed its valves adjusted?
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post #35 of 46 Old Oct 11th, 2006, 6:31 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George_S
I went the Harley route myself in 2000, and I was only mildly happy with the bike. Top heavy, crude, and 1,500 mile service intervals, lots of overheating and constant valve adjustments. My 3 BMWs since have been very refined and well thought out, reliable machines.

They do hold their value though, I sold mine for more than I paid for it new. Try that with any other brand. Harley is a successfully marketed mystique, which has the entire world screaming for more. I think production has about doubled 2000-2005, and they still are scarce in the showrooms, and command a premium upon resale.

H-D has been doing just what BMW is doing to their dealers, making them upgrade to large, showy, cookie-cutter type dealerships at cost of 2 to 3 million dollars each, forcing out the smaller and storefront dealers. It's just that Harley maintains dealers about 15-20 miles apart from each other, whereas BMW dealers are from 60 to hundreds of miles apart.

I still buy the stock if not the bikes...

uhhh what Harley did you own that had a 1500 mile service interval?

and they only hold their value if you do not put miles on them, if you do put miles on them they just do not sell , been there done that. As far as being Scarce , well it ain;t that way any more, however their dealers are smart like bmw dealers and DO NOT put the inventory on the floor, they keep em in stored, that is changing some now since the HD MoCo stopped paying for the dealers to store the huge inventory they hid from the public eyes

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post #36 of 46 Old Oct 11th, 2006, 6:36 pm
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Originally Posted by ez_rdr55
"I went the Harley route myself in 2000, and I was only mildly happy with the bike. Top heavy, crude, and 1,500 mile service intervals, lots of overheating and constant valve adjustments. My 3 BMWs since have been very refined and well thought out, reliable machines."

What model Harley did you have that needed its valves adjusted?

any that the dealer installed a stage x kit in and replaced the factory pushrods with adjustables, very common thing to do , particularly with the yuppie fad of being overpriced and hard to get Harley's during the 90's-02's the dealers did what they wanted to the bikes many forcing what they thought was a good feature to raise the price of the bike way over MSRP

usually a couple/fewthousand of add ons such as cams or crap you really never wanted but they conviced many was the greatest thing for them ok convinced many that had no clue
(poor folks that sucked for sure)

Tom

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post #37 of 46 Old Oct 11th, 2006, 7:27 pm
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I like the Harley look, and I like the sound of a Harley with quiet pipes (oxy-MORON, I know). The new 96" engine really looks nice - a friend just bought a new Ultra-Classic Electra Glide and is positively raving about the new engine / tranny combo. There are 6 (Yes, SIX) dealers within 45 mins of my house, and to top it off, many of my friends have them and are VERY faithful owners. a few of us even went down to Skyline Drive and over to VA Beach a couple weekends ago, and lets just say we averaged a "good" speed all weekend. Nothing vibrated lose, no-one leaked any oil and nothing fell off all weekend. (and no rear drive or slave cyl. failures either - PHEW!) That said, I find I am not the typical "Harley Type", I don't drink and ride, I don't kill 6 cows to make my riding gear, and I do believe I can wear colors other than black. I like my Beemer. (wish it weren't quite so expensive to service, damn!) Most likely if I do get rid of my LT, which I doubt anytime soon, I would probably go to a Triumph or similar, rather than the H-D. But I do understand why some people really like them.

R1200GSA Hi Ho, Hi Ho, It's off to Alaska I go!
(Down to ONE BIKE - ARGH!)
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post #38 of 46 Old Oct 11th, 2006, 8:16 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMC1
I like the Harley look, and I like the sound of a Harley with quiet pipes (oxy-MORON, I know). The new 96" engine really looks nice - a friend just bought a new Ultra-Classic Electra Glide and is positively raving about the new engine / tranny combo. There are 6 (Yes, SIX) dealers within 45 mins of my house, and to top it off, many of my friends have them and are VERY faithful owners. a few of us even went down to Skyline Drive and over to VA Beach a couple weekends ago, and lets just say we averaged a "good" speed all weekend. Nothing vibrated lose, no-one leaked any oil and nothing fell off all weekend. (and no rear drive or slave cyl. failures either - PHEW!) That said, I find I am not the typical "Harley Type", I don't drink and ride, I don't kill 6 cows to make my riding gear, and I do believe I can wear colors other than black. I like my Beemer. (wish it weren't quite so expensive to service, damn!) Most likely if I do get rid of my LT, which I doubt anytime soon, I would probably go to a Triumph or similar, rather than the H-D. But I do understand why some people really like them.
no doubt Harley makes the best looking bike, the hardest thing I think I have ever done was to go from Harley To BMW, rode Hd since i was 18, enjoyed them my whole life, in fact if I had not bought the first new hd in '00 I would probably still be riding Harley's, the '01 I bought new in Oct 2000, weaned me, it handled like crap, they should have NEVER EVER rubber mounted the engine tranny and the SWINGARM to the frame and deraked them so much with reverse trees, sure it made them handle much better in traffic, in town, and in curves, but man did it totaly screw up the high speed handling
IE the dreaded high speed wobbles hd has settled lawsuits over, they still have it too, even after all he work they have tried on them, there is a aftermarket cure for it though, a Additional stabilizer link to help stiffen the swingarm assembly to the frame

Tom

Tom

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post #39 of 46 Old Oct 11th, 2006, 8:29 pm
 
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You gotta be kidding right?

I have rode HD products for over 20 years (for backround only) and I have to tell you, your all wrong (HD bashers.) I like my Harley product, however, as much as I like my IPOD and cell phone, I buy what I want because that is what fits my personality. I don't do it because I look "cool." OR because I can afford it and it is a "statement." I buy it for one simple reason: Because it is my choice. Period. I don't appreciate some of the comments of how "after a 12-pack" it all works good-guys, that's plain old ignorant. I haven't and I have friends as well, had an alchoholic beverage in over 20 years. Why you ask? Because again, it is my choice. I am on this site because I appreciate what BMW brings to the table. I don't care for the two end tables on the back of the K1200 LT, however, I am considering one for what it is: a well engineered riding machine. Simply put, it should never be about what you ride, or what you read about the 5% of HD riders. It should be about that you ride and support a great lifestyle. Until I read this thread, I thought by in large most all of your were OK...some of your need to rethink your juvenile approach to reading and understand that these types of venues can bring more riders to the road-or, turn them off and make them stereotype some of you as you have done to HD riders.
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post #40 of 46 Old Oct 11th, 2006, 10:59 pm
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I gotta stereotype the HD guys...I too have ridden HD for over 20 years...still own one (05 EGC). My problem is that HD is now a 'first bike' for people. In the "good-ol-days" you worked your way up to a big cruiser from a sporty or metric bike. I also have issue with all the attitude the "new" HD guys bring to the road. I always stop to help a biker in perceived need, you cant even get a look from the new crowd. HD has a lot of my money but wont get another cent. Did HD sell out? no, it was just good business sense to sell to whomever could afford one. Im all for capitalism.... Also, how many really clean, gleaming HD bikes do you see??? Over in my neck of the wood, TONS! All garage queens until Sat/Sun when the owners ride them 20 miles to the nearest Quaker Steak or Hooters. If I dont stereotype the HD crowd, then I guess theyll just have to pigeonhole themselves, as they have already.

F
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post #41 of 46 Old Oct 12th, 2006, 1:35 am
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You guys fascinate me, you remind me of when I was fishing Bass Tournaments, around the country. The discussion of which engine to run on your boat and why. Seems everyone had an opinion, mostly I kept my mouth shut. Finally I spoke up and everyone just looked at me. My statement was, when they run they are all the best, "when they break not worth using as an anchor!"

"The Beerburner" is technically my first bike that my name is on the title, and when it runs it is the best bike on the road, and when it breaks I can be ready to leave it on the road, and walk away and not look back, and I would feel the same if I rode an HD. We all have our reason for choosing the LT, just as HD riders have their reasons. Personally if it was my choice I would be riding an HD right now, an HD is what i wanted, and the bike I went after, but with the consideration of my wife, I compromised with the LT because she enjoyed riding it more than the HD, and she rides with me better than 80% of the time.

What I have a hard time with is all this talk putting down HD's, So you dont like HD, okay, but dont look down your nose at me because I do like HD's. Gee Whizz I sat at most of the Booze Brothers meetings at CCR and I dare say that a subject came up with 100% agreement on anything, but we didnt start throwing insults at each other because of opinions or ideas. we disagreed but remained friends. we had a discussion on weather beer should be cold or room temp to drink it. I drank some cold and some room temp, it was all good.

It appears that most of the time when we put down on items, we are trying to justify why we have what we have, personally I just want to ride. You can ride with me and it doesnt matter what you ride as long as you ride!

my dollars worth! I'll go sit back in my corner now.

NOGILLS2


Booze Brother# 69
2003 K1200LTE "BEERBURNER" RIP 07/21/09
2006 Aluma Trailer "AFTERBURNER" SOLD
2007 ST1300ABS "Quicksilver"




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post #42 of 46 Old Oct 12th, 2006, 6:17 am
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tat_n_Telle
You're right. My garage floor needs more oil....
Pssssst...

Don't let your final drive hear that


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post #43 of 46 Old Oct 12th, 2006, 8:15 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k12steve
Pssssst...

Don't let your final drive hear that


AHHH AHHAHAHAHAH Damnit! I almost spilled my coffee!

R1200GSA Hi Ho, Hi Ho, It's off to Alaska I go!
(Down to ONE BIKE - ARGH!)
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post #44 of 46 Old Oct 12th, 2006, 8:59 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian

In the "good-ol-days" you worked your way up to a big cruiser from a sporty or metric bike.
--------
I also have issue with all the attitude the "new" HD guys bring to the road. I always stop to help a biker in perceived need, you cant even get a look from the new crowd.
-----
Did HD sell out? no, it was just good business sense to sell to whomever could afford one. Im all for capitalism.... Also, how many really clean, gleaming HD bikes do you see??? Over in my neck of the wood, TONS! All garage queens until Sat/Sun when the owners ride them 20 miles to the nearest Quaker Steak or Hooters. If I dont stereotype the HD crowd, then I guess theyll just have to pigeonhole themselves, as they have already.

F
well back when I started riding hd (79 ish) you wern't caught dead on a sporty, at least by your friends I was 18 when I got mine it was my second street bike had a water buffalo before it, it was a '66 FLH half stripped down 10 over FE, some gawd awefull 12 million point pullbacks boiught it from under a lean to out in frosproof FL ahh those were the days!


your spot on with "todays" Hd rider though, I have never seen so many with such a attitude, you know these are the same people that hated us back then, they thought they were better than us at the very least!

your right with the Moco As well they did what was smart, it;s some of the dealers that sold out and treated a few like crap ya know some of us that shopped with them while they had a hard time making the mortgage payment, I will say though there are a few dealers left that remember those days and remember the old timer customers.

I stil can not get over the attitude from the "new" hd crowd it seems they love the imitation lifestyle play barney bad ass biker for a few hours on the weekend or some crap

Sad........

Tom

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post #45 of 46 Old Oct 22nd, 2006, 10:12 am
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Hey Roadgliderider:

Don't try to read between the lines of what some of the guys say here. Most of these people are very well versed and have ridden a bunch of different bikes in their lives besides BMW's. That said, there is some truth in what they say. It's common knowledge that alcohol is consummed in larger quantities per person at Harley events than at others. Honda events are second and BMW third. For background, my first H-D was a new 1974 Sportster and 12 other new ones followed through the years, ending with a 2002 Roadglide that I turned into an Ultra. So my question is this: where were all the "typical" H-D supporters of today in the 70's and 80's when the Motor Company almost went belly-up? In my experience, those that were old enough to ride a motorcycle in that time frame were riding anything else BUT a Harley. They were the same ones that laughed at me for buying H-D product after H-D product and FOREVER joked about leaving oil puddles all over the place like a puppy with a bladder problem. And then mysteriously one day the heavens opened up and it was "acceptable" to own a Harley. Then things changed, the dealers went crazy building new buildings and the MSRP for new Harleys became nothing more than a starting point for how much more could a dealer soak the customer. Think I'm joking? I was at dealership looking at the first V-rod that he got in and the dealer told me it was already sold for $32,000.00!!! That was absolutely nuts because the bike had an MSRP of $17,000.00!!! A year later the dealers couldn't give the damn V-rods away, so who is stroking who? The infamous Harley resale factor is a moot point for me also. I lost my a** on my "Ultraized" 2002 Roadglide and was told by more than one H-D dealer, three to be exact, that all the parts I put on the bike to make it an Ultra really didn't matter on trade-in value. So if I'm gonna lose money on something, I might as well lose it on a bike that I really enjoy riding so I bought an 05 LT. I just took it to the dealership last Friday to trade it in on an 07 LT and percentage wise I lost less money on the LT than my 02 Roadglide. Go figure huh??? With all that being said, there are good points and bad points to ALL the manufacturers of motorcycles. I wish I could take the best from each and majically transform them into one "perfect" maker of motorcycles, but I guess that ain't gonna happen in my lifetime. So for right now anyway I'll take the heat for riding a BMW and living in the hometown of Harley-Davidson. Perhaps you can answer a question for me, why do Harley riders point at the ground all the time, WHEN and IF they wave back at me, instead of just raising their hand in the air a bit??? Used to be when a M/C rider pointed at the ground when passing another rider it meant there was a hazard of some type to watch for.........but I never see a hazard, so why are they pointing at the ground?? Rick
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post #46 of 46 Old Oct 22nd, 2006, 3:09 pm
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This is what you get when Engineers run a company

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrlakin
I for one thing BMW could learn to make sure they customers have a Dealer network out there who can repair and service their bikes, instead of forcing them out of business. I have an Ultra Classic, and while I recognize the BMW is a much nicer ride, and a superior bike in almost all respects, I haven't had nearly as much trouble with my Harley as I have had with my LT. PLUS, you can talk all you want about how crappy the Harley's are, but they do hold their resale better than any other bike out there. I realize that is changing as I speak, but still a used Harley holds it value much better than a LT. I paid $6900 for a 2000 LT with 8500 miles on it last November. Bet you would be hard pressed to buy any used 2000 Harley of any model (except a sportster) for $6800.00 I am not defending Harley Davidson necessarily as much as I am being critical of BMW. I am over 100 miles from the nearest dealer, and they are so busy trying to service their customers, it takes me 3 weeks to get the bike in for service! If I have to leave my Harley for more than a day, my dealer lets me ride a Demo bike if I want one, and if he has one that isn't out. I know all Harley Dealer's aren't like that either, but BMW could learn some things from Harley too. Their bikes seem to be so over engineered, they don't hold up, and the cost of repairs is high. HD may stand for "Hundred Dollars", but BMW stands for "Break My Wallet". Having said that, I still like my BMW better!!! mrjrlin.
Innovation, great performance, piss-poor customer support, micro-managed and failing dealer network, and a shitty business plan (never enough popular bikes).
I know because I am an engineer. It takes one to know one.

Regards,
John
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