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post #1 of 17 Old Nov 15th, 2008, 10:50 pm Thread Starter
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Going to Cuba

I saw this performance by Jackson Browne a number of weeks ago. Has turned into one of my favorite songs in the past 10 years (ok, longer but will not admit how many).

Listen to the words and see if you agree with the message. This is the short version and the album has a much longer version that is just a tad better.

Would like to hear your thoughts on the message. Hope you enjoy.



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post #2 of 17 Old Nov 15th, 2008, 11:47 pm
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Re: Going to Cuba

I'm ready to go for some of those genuine, hand rolled Cubans. The best.

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post #3 of 17 Old Nov 16th, 2008, 12:34 am
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Re: Going to Cuba

I really resent being told I cannot travel to Cuba. I really did consider a cheap flight to Cuba when I was in Belize. Hopefully, we will join the rest of our allies in ending the embargo and somewhat normalizing relationships with Cuba. Hell, we even used constructive engagement in South Africa during the era of Apartheid. But then again, Mandela was considered a terrorist.

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post #4 of 17 Old Nov 16th, 2008, 1:27 am
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Re: Going to Cuba

I've enjoyed Jackson Brown songs & singing style for many years. Its good to hear the new one!

I'd like to go to Cuba, too!

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post #5 of 17 Old Nov 16th, 2008, 7:11 am
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Unhappy Re: Going to Cuba

Great song !

But a bit out of touch. The Communist government ruled by the Castro's is not good. The people in Cuba are severely deprived. The basics like food , clothing etc. is scarce. My family sent about 300 lbs of clothing to cuba via connections in Miami this past week.

Imagine this scenario 35 years ago, You wake up one morning with Russian Tanks and solders in town . They knock down your door take what ever they want and kick you out. Then they give your home , land and belongings to someone els..

Democracy needs to return to Cuba , America let the Cubans down in what is known as the bay of pigs incident. I am sure the are others better versed in this subject matter, JMO

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post #6 of 17 Old Nov 16th, 2008, 8:33 am
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Re: Going to Cuba

I caught his concert in Phoenix on November 3rd. It was a awesome. The entire audience and arena was absolutely rowdy and electrified.

Easy to get there for you departing from Vancouver or Calgary. For the rest of us going through Cancun is an option.

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post #7 of 17 Old Nov 16th, 2008, 7:01 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Going to Cuba

Quote:
Originally Posted by murray
Great song !

But a bit out of touch. The Communist government ruled by the Castro's is not good. The people in Cuba are severely deprived. The basics like food , clothing etc. is scarce. My family sent about 300 lbs of clothing to cuba via connections in Miami this past week.

Imagine this scenario 35 years ago, You wake up one morning with Russian Tanks and solders in town . They knock down your door take what ever they want and kick you out. Then they give your home , land and belongings to someone els..

Democracy needs to return to Cuba , America let the Cubans down in what is known as the bay of pigs incident. I am sure the are others better versed in this subject matter, JMO
I agree 35 years ago your scenario fits. How about today? Is Cuba that much of a threat to the US? Should we as U.S. citizens be told we can not travel there? Heck, we can go to the old Soviet Union but can not travel 90 miles off of our own border. Which by the way, is what this song is about about. Course, they (Cubans) do know what to do in a hurricane.

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post #8 of 17 Old Nov 17th, 2008, 3:56 am
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Re: Going to Cuba

Sounds to me like I am ganna meet a few Amerticans in Cuba soon!!
As to the 'deprivation' there - are you kiddin'? What are your media feeding you?
The first year I went there, wages doubled overnight - not in the 'shops doubled their prices as well' type of way - no. Everyone had twice as much! One hell of a party!
Don't mis-judge the fact that you can't buy a McDonnals for poverty. It is one of the richest countries in the world - it actually lives within its means and through tourism, gets a hell of a lot of foureign money for next to nothing.
As to the embago, though, I am not against that. Cuba benefits aparently (not really figured why though - it was a very drunken conversation that night, but the band insisted it was a good thing they don't get US goods and tourists). And you will hear many Cubans loving the fact that Havana is not a cheap frat party town, as well.
What is forgotten about Cubas past is that America used Havana as a gambling town, worse than Los Vegas for curruption and gangsters. All this while the people starved out of the city. Now no one starves and tourists don't flash money about (holidays are all inclusive).
If you want a taste of true communism, no money worries and paradise - I am told you can go via Canada or Cancun. If you go while I am there, I will introduce you to some of the best musicians in the world!

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post #9 of 17 Old Nov 17th, 2008, 8:01 am
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Re: Going to Cuba

Doesn't look like Reuters agrees with you, Cookie.

PREVIEW-Chinese president to visit struggling ally Cuba 16 Nov 2008 12:26:42 GMT
Source: Reuters
By Marc Frank

HAVANA, Nov 16 (Reuters) - China's President Hu Jintao travels to Cuba on Monday for a close-up look at the government of new President Raul Castro, a fellow communist struggling to lead his island nation through the devastating effects of three hurricanes and the international financial crisis.

Hu visited Cuba in 2004 to oversee the signing of 16 cooperation agreements and was expected to sign more on the economy, trade, education and other areas during his two-day stop, the Chinese government said.

Hu, who attended Saturday's Group of 20 global economy summit in Washington, was to stop in Costa Rica on Sunday before starting his two-day visit to Cuba. He will go to Peru later in the week for the Asian-Pacific Economic Cooperation summit, then on to Greece.

Cuba's economy was still suffering from the demise of the Soviet Union during Hu's last visit but has rebounded largely due to integration with oil-rich Venezuela and Chinese loans.

China is now Cuba's largest trading partner after Venezuela at $2.3 billion in 2007 -- four times what it was in 2004 -- despite stark differences in their economic policies and little direct Chinese investment.

China adopted market economics long ago while Cuba still has a Soviet-style command system where more than 90 percent of the economy is in state hands.

The Chinese loans are starting to come due at a time when Cuba has suffered $10 billion in damage from the three recent storms, prices of nickel, its main export, have dropped sharply and oil prices, which sustain ally Venezuela, have declined.

Restructuring those debts and future credits will certainly be on Hu's agenda, western diplomats said.

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The two countries' ruling parties have worked hard since the collapse of European communism to align their foreign policies and overcome a bitter heritage resulting from Cuba's backing of the Soviet Union against China during the Cold War.

Cuba has supported China's claim to Taiwan and Tibet.

"President Hu Jintao is signaling that Beijing plans to remain a long-term player in the Cuban transition and seeks to further bolster relations with the Raul Castro government," said Dan Erikson of the Inter-American Dialogue policy group in Washington.

Fidel Castro, Cuba's founding president, visited China twice before undergoing intestinal surgery in 2006 from which he never fully recovered.

Raul Castro, Fidel's younger brother, also visited China before taking over as president in February, while the last three Chinese presidents have come to Cuba.

"Cuba is indispensable for China in its bid to strengthen links with Latin American and the Caribbean countries," the Chinese ambassador to Cuba, Zhao Rongxian Zhao, said of Hu's visit in an interview with China's Xinhua news agency.

China published a White Book on Latin America and Caribbean policy earlier this month, signaling the region's importance.

Chinese trade with the region topped $100 billion in 2007 and there is growing Chinese investment in energy and other resources.

Hundreds of future Chinese diplomats, translators and functionaries study Spanish at a special school on the outskirts of Havana.

Since 2004, Cuba has become a huge showroom for Chinese products bought on credit. Thousands of Chinese buses and trucks now ply Cuba's roads and Chinese locomotives ride its rails, while Chinese power-saving light bulbs and electric appliances adorn most homes. (Editing by Jeff Franks and John O'Callaghan)

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post #10 of 17 Old Nov 17th, 2008, 8:49 am
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Re: Going to Cuba

Sure, they have a little debt. Measured in a lot less zeros that the US debt - per person.
Born in the USA, you owe $34,717.64 before you learn to walk.
Cuba $933.17 and that gets less every year.
For the USA debt clock

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post #11 of 17 Old Nov 17th, 2008, 5:52 pm
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Re: Going to Cuba

[QUOTE=c00k1e]Sounds to me like I am ganna meet a few Amerticans in Cuba soon!!
As to the 'deprivation' there - are you kiddin'? What are your media feeding you?

The first year I went there, wages doubled overnight - not in the 'shops doubled their prices as well' type of way - no. Everyone had twice as much!

If you want a taste of true communism, no money worries and paradise - I am told you can go via Canada or Cancun. (QUOTE]

I think you must have been smokin' more than just Havana's down there Cook. The government doubles everyone's income overnight?

First google search on Cuban economy got me this:

To ensure delivery of the basic basket of foods, sold to families at state subsidised prices, the government forecasts an expenditure of 945 million dollars in 2008. Regulated food distribution on a ration book system guarantees some essential goods to every Cuban citizen, but the basket covers only part of their total food needs.

"I understand that the country spends a lot on ration book provisions, but I can’t feed my children on this alone," a woman who was buying her food for January told IPS. She carried rice, sugar, a litre of oil and small quantities of black beans and peas in her shopping basket. "There was nothing extra this year for New Year," she complained.

Like most Cubans, she has to buy the rest of her family’s basic needs in the free farmers’ markets, and pay for goods either in national or convertible currency. This takes the largest share of her family’s income: together with her husband, they make about 800 pesos a month. "Everything’s so expensive," she said.

Seems like the problem is the people are exceeding their protein allotment:

In his Dec. 28 report to parliament on the state of the economy and his ministry’s plans for 2008, Planning Minister José Luis Rodríguez said food intake per person had risen to 3,287 kilocalories and 89.9 grams of protein a day, "out of which between 62 and 64 percent is available at subsidised prices."

No money worries? Taste of true communism? I think I'll stick with freedom. BTW I agree it is a beautiful place, I spent a week scuba diving off Gitmo about 15 years ago and would hope to go back sometime soon.

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post #12 of 17 Old Nov 18th, 2008, 3:23 am
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Re: Going to Cuba

Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Go there, look for yourself. You won't find a happier, friendlier bunch of people.

"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" Mark Twain


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post #13 of 17 Old Nov 18th, 2008, 4:47 am
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Re: Going to Cuba

Quote:
Originally Posted by c00k1e
....If you want a taste of true communism, no money worries and paradise....
AND there you have it, folks: Cuber/communism = PARADISE! WTF?! Didn't "CHANGE" arrive in 1959? Sounds a little familiar, doesn't it?

Keep on drinking the Kool-Aid!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt
Doesn't look like Reuters agrees with you, Cookie.....
Even the ADD mainstream media has to admit that the average Cuberan barely has a PC or cell phone. But those things are way overrated, anyway!
Quote:
Originally Posted by c00k1e
Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Go there, look for yourself. You won't find a happier, friendlier bunch of people.
Yeah, that whole freedom thing is WAY overrated! You know, EVEN a caged animal tries to escape....BUT, we're WAY smarter than a caged animal--right?

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #14 of 17 Old Nov 18th, 2008, 7:20 am
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Re: Going to Cuba

Quote:
Originally Posted by c00k1e
Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Go there, look for yourself. You won't find a happier, friendlier bunch of people.
Well, we don't need the internet to see the thousands of Cuban's who have risked everything, life, limb, families to get free from the oppressive government regime known as Communism.

If Communism is such a wonderful lifestyle why do they need barbed wire and machine guns to keep it working?

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post #15 of 17 Old Nov 18th, 2008, 9:08 am
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Re: Going to Cuba

I am not surprised guys, I reakon no country has ever had so many lies told about it in the media.
But the fact remains that if you don't go there, you won't know what the people there really think.
Cubans are the only people in the world with an automatic right to become residents of the United States. No Briton, Canadian, German or Frenchman can wash up on the shoreline and expect to be allowed to stay. That is a politically motivated exception and just one of the many devisive examples of what Washington will do to try to show that communism doesn't work - but the biggest way is to stop YOU from seeing it for yourself. What has Washington got to hide?
I have been out on plenty of fishing trips from Cuba. Every trip I say 'wanna go to the US and get a BigMac? I'll sail her back if you wanna stay" - opertunity is there every time. Never had any takers yet.

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post #16 of 17 Old Nov 18th, 2008, 9:15 am
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Re: Going to Cuba

Quote:
Originally Posted by charlieg
If Communism is such a wonderful lifestyle why do they need barbed wire and machine guns to keep it working?
Never seen a strand of barbed wire nor a machine gun in Cuba. And if it was so bad, how come Castro could walk the streets without even a body guard? He has to be the only dictator that ever lived that could do that. How many 'elected' leaders can do that now?
You can be led by the person you vote for - being the most convincing lier on the vote paper, or you get led by someone who has no need to lie. A dictator has to fulfill his promises or he invariably comes to a bloody end.

Lord Acton: The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the party that succeeds, by force or fraud, in carrying elections

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Last edited by c00k1e; Nov 18th, 2008 at 9:27 am.
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post #17 of 17 Old Nov 18th, 2008, 4:02 pm
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Re: Going to Cuba

Quote:
Originally Posted by charlieg
Well, we don't need the internet to see the thousands of Cuban's who have risked everything, life, limb, families to get free from the oppressive government regime known as Communism....
Quote:
Originally Posted by c00k1e
I am not surprised guys, I reakon no country has ever had so many lies told about it in the media....
Quote:
Originally Posted by c00k1e
Never seen a strand of barbed wire nor a machine gun in Cuba. And if it was so bad, how come Castro could walk the streets without even a body guard? He has to be the only dictator that ever lived that could do that. How many 'elected' leaders can do that now?....
See Chuck: what more proof do you need? WTF?!

If we had just known of the virtues of a dictatorship, imagine how much BLOOD we could of saved by forgetting this whole freedom thing?! Machine guns would be unnecessary and we WOULD NOT need a Secret Service!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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