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post #1 of 21 Old Nov 10th, 2008, 11:49 am Thread Starter
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Saudi Oil Reserves

I came across an interesting article surfing on the net. I have heard some oil experts say that Saudi is overstating the amount of oil reserves they have left. If this is true and I am not saying it is, this would make 911 look like a small pot shot at our oil based economy. Sure hope it is not true. Drill now so we can be independent from foreign oil in 10 to 15 years. Maybe by the we will we can re tool our cars to run on coal based fuel.


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post #2 of 21 Old Nov 10th, 2008, 12:25 pm
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Re: Saudi Oil Reserves

That's OK, when the auto companies get their bailout money they have to promise that they'll build more fuel efficient cars. Seems to me that if they'd started doing that 5 years ago we'd have them already. Then again, drivers would actually have to buy them too. Good thing the government is here to sort it all out. I mean, what could possibly go wrong?

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Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #3 of 21 Old Nov 10th, 2008, 1:47 pm
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Re: Saudi Oil Reserves

This kind of brings up a question that has been nagging at me...

Seems like there are two primary schools of thought on this topic. One being that we need to immediately explore alternative sources of energy for our vehicles. The second being that we need to exploit our oil producing potential to free ourselves from the stranglehold of foriegn oil.

I have been hoping to hear more of the "we should do both" school of thought, which, to me, seems eminently practical. Set the standards for auto makers, invest in the alternative energy study and development while at the same time, produce all the oil we can to ease the burden on consumers and send less of our money overseas.

I don't know...maybe I am ahead of the times...or behind them


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post #4 of 21 Old Nov 10th, 2008, 1:57 pm
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Re: Saudi Oil Reserves

For those of you who haven't figured it out yet, the US is playing the same foreign oil game that China is. It's a foreign policy strategy of "use theirs first". The thought is that we can save our own reserves for a time when the foreign reserves run out.

Between the Gulf of Mexico, Oil Shale in North America, ANWR, and off the California coast, there's more oil than ever was in the Middle East. It's just a matter of COST to recover that oil. Most domestic reserves require a $73/barrel market to break even. The ME has already hit Peak Oil from a production and reserve standpoint. While I hate the idea of sending $700B per year to countries that don't like us, I'd rather tap them out first and have our own reserves for later.

But it's a crime that we aren't further along with Hydrogen and Electric technologies for cars, but we can't blame the current administration for that -- since it spent more on alternative energy research than all other administrations combined.


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post #5 of 21 Old Nov 10th, 2008, 2:08 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Saudi Oil Reserves

I SAY WE BAILOUT STANLEY STEEMER AND BRING BACK STEAM POWERED CARS.

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post #6 of 21 Old Nov 10th, 2008, 2:53 pm
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Re: Saudi Oil Reserves

I agree with the Stanley Steamer theory............we don't have to use wood to fuel the boilers.........we could go nuclear.................Bet that would set some more land speed records for F.O.'s design.................

B-Safe...............Jim
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post #7 of 21 Old Nov 10th, 2008, 3:06 pm
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Re: Saudi Oil Reserves

Or, we could some of them lard ass, left hand lane, mouth breathing, land yacht driving bastiges on a bike.



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post #8 of 21 Old Nov 10th, 2008, 5:00 pm
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Re: Saudi Oil Reserves

Here is a interesting link to a lady that sure knows more about this situation than I do.

http://radicalislam.org/content/anne...s-oil-solution
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post #9 of 21 Old Nov 10th, 2008, 5:13 pm
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Re: Saudi Oil Reserves

Yeah...
Ya know, back around 1982 I was at a company in St. Martinsville, Louisiana performing some routine maintenance on some office machines.

We got to discussing the "oil" problem... I said to the owner... " think we should give them a bushel of wheat or rice for a drum of oil.... that should be the only currency we exchange."

He said.. "What? are yo ukidding? I'm selling them my HOTSAUCE for $550 per 40 barrel drum!!!! I wouldn't want to take a pay cut!!!!"

Seems reasonable.

...............
J.M.J...
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post #10 of 21 Old Nov 10th, 2008, 5:22 pm
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Re: Saudi Oil Reserves

Quote:
Originally Posted by eljeffe
The thought is that we can save our own reserves for a time when the foreign reserves run out.
That's a great theory until someone over there does develop a nuclear weapon, then it may not matter who has what buried underground.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eljeffe
While I hate the idea of sending $700B per year to countries that don't like us, I'd rather tap them out first and have our own reserves for later.
That $700B figure was made up, and has been completely overstated. It's probably closer to half that, with around half of that lower figure going to "friendly" countries such as Canada and Mexico. Although your original point does remain valid, in that we are funding far too many people who want to harm us directly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eljeffe
But it's a crime that we aren't further along with Hydrogen and Electric technologies for cars
Even when gas hit nearly $5/gallon, we simply hadn't hit the pain threshold yet, and definitely not for nearly long enough. Sure, lots of folks started parking their SUVs and selling their boats and motor homes, but how much of that has simply reversed now that we're back under $2/gallon? Folks sure do have a short memory, even those who lived through the 70's.

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post #11 of 21 Old Nov 10th, 2008, 5:24 pm
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Re: Saudi Oil Reserves

Quote:
Originally Posted by Palerider
I agree with the Stanley Steamer theory...
I'm in for one of the 200 mph steam cars.

Ken
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Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #12 of 21 Old Nov 11th, 2008, 2:54 am
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Re: Saudi Oil Reserves

Quote:
Originally Posted by spokane1200lt
Drill now so we can be independent from foreign oil in 10 to 15 years.
Looks like it will be sooner. They have started drilling in the bakken oil field up in N.D. It is supposed to be the largest single oil field found so far.
http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=1911
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post #13 of 21 Old Nov 11th, 2008, 6:00 am
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Re: Saudi Oil Reserves

Quote:
Originally Posted by spokane1200lt
I came across an interesting article surfing on the net. I have heard some oil experts say that Saudi is overstating the amount of oil reserves they have left. If this is true and I am not saying it is, this would make 911 look like a small pot shot at our oil based economy. Sure hope it is not true. Drill now so we can be independent from foreign oil in 10 to 15 years. Maybe by the we will we can re tool our cars to run on coal based fuel.
We have a 50-500 year supply of high quality coal, right here in the USA (depending on what numbers you wanna use). BUT, surprisingly, it doesn't harvest itself!

Back in world war II, the Germans invented a relatively simple process to turn coal into crude. The higher quality coal needs less refining. My point is that we have more than enough readily available fossil fuel to bridge a 10-20 year gap in conversion to non-fossil fuel vehicles.

So, whether the Saudi's are bullshitting or not, should have zero effect on our road to energy independence. BUT, I digress. Cause that would require a little LEADERSHIP. I won't even mention maybe a little national sacrifice, resulting in hardship (you know--I might have 2 give up my 8 MPG Hummer)!

Let that be a lesson to me!
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljeffe
For those of you who haven't figured it out yet, the US is playing the same foreign oil game that China is. It's a foreign policy strategy of "use theirs first". The thought is that we can save our own reserves for a time when the foreign reserves run out....Between the Gulf of Mexico, Oil Shale in North America, ANWR, and off the California coast, there's more oil than ever was in the Middle East. It's just a matter of COST to recover that oil. Most domestic reserves require a $73/barrel market to break even. The ME has already hit Peak Oil from a production and reserve standpoint. While I hate the idea of sending $700B per year to countries that don't like us, I'd rather tap them out first and have our own reserves for later....
Yes, Jeff I agree with your analysis. BUT, you're playing a dangerous hand sending billions and billions to people that want to kill us--hoping that you can eventually break them--by milking them dry.

I hope we aggressively begin and continue to harvest our own reserves.

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #14 of 21 Old Nov 12th, 2008, 7:45 pm
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Re: Saudi Oil Reserves

Quote:
Originally Posted by eljeffe
For those of you who haven't figured it out yet, the US is playing the same foreign oil game that China is. It's a foreign policy strategy of "use theirs first". The thought is that we can save our own reserves for a time when the foreign reserves run out.

Between the Gulf of Mexico, Oil Shale in North America, ANWR, and off the California coast, there's more oil than ever was in the Middle East. It's just a matter of COST to recover that oil. Most domestic reserves require a $73/barrel market to break even. The ME has already hit Peak Oil from a production and reserve standpoint. While I hate the idea of sending $700B per year to countries that don't like us, I'd rather tap them out first and have our own reserves for later.

But it's a crime that we aren't further along with Hydrogen and Electric technologies for cars, but we can't blame the current administration for that -- since it spent more on alternative energy research than all other administrations combined.
Excellent point. I get extremely frustrated at misinformed and shortsighted individuals (many of my relatives, for example) who vociferously demand we (the USA) develop our oil reserves (but don't do it in their back yard, by God!!!) and free ourselves from the stranglehold of foreign oil. We do need to develop our reserves - right up to the point that all we have to do is turn a valve and we immediately have excess supply ready to burn. This scenario will keep the greedy middle eastern bastards in check regarding oil prices. We should drain every last drop of foreign oil before we use any of "ours". Having "ours" ready to put in the pipeline at a moments notice will control price gouging and avert the future energy crises promulgated by the sheiks and mullahs. The middle east has absolutely NOTHING to offer but oil; they need us even more than we need them.
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post #15 of 21 Old Nov 12th, 2008, 8:25 pm
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Re: Saudi Oil Reserves

Quote:
Originally Posted by grifscoots
Or, we could some of them lard ass, left hand lane, mouth breathing, land yacht driving bastiges on a bike.
Now that is the most sensible thing I've read on this topic in a long time.

Kevin
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post #16 of 21 Old Nov 13th, 2008, 2:18 am
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Re: Saudi Oil Reserves

Quote:
Originally Posted by grifscoots
....land yacht driving bastiges on a bike.
AND speaking of the Amerikan automotive industry....hopefully soon to be gone FOREVER!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #17 of 21 Old Nov 13th, 2008, 7:59 am
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Re: Saudi Oil Reserves

Re: Hydrogen cars: Unfortunately Hydrogen is a step into the wrong direction. Hydrogen sounds good, but Hydrogen is not and energy source it's a carrier, and there is a HUGE difference. You can look at Hydrogen the same way you look at a battery. You have to put in HUGE amounts of energy before you can get (relatively little) energy back. The overall in to out factor gets a little bit better with fuel cells, but all in all the whole process from Hydrogen production to Hydrogen usage has about a 20% energy ration AT BEST.

For cars with internal combustion engines there are better ways to go. But I know because Hydrogen does sound way to good as long as you only look at the car and not the whole supply chain they will build them, even knowing that these cars/engines are BS
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post #18 of 21 Old Nov 13th, 2008, 8:15 am
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Re: Saudi Oil Reserves

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy
Re: Hydrogen cars: Unfortunately Hydrogen is a step into the wrong direction. Hydrogen sounds good, but Hydrogen is not and energy source it's a carrier, and there is a HUGE difference. You can look at Hydrogen the same way you look at a battery. You have to put in HUGE amounts of energy before you can get (relatively little) energy back. The overall in to out factor gets a little bit better with fuel cells, but all in all the whole process from Hydrogen production to Hydrogen usage has about a 20% energy ration AT BEST.

For cars with internal combustion engines there are better ways to go. But I know because Hydrogen does sound way to good as long as you only look at the car and not the whole supply chain they will build them, even knowing that these cars/engines are BS
I agree.

And, the only way to make just the production of Hydrogen economically (disregarding the efficiency loss) is to have electricity from nuclear power plants available to produce it - which at this moment - does not seem to be a good prospect.

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post #19 of 21 Old Nov 13th, 2008, 8:41 am
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Re: Saudi Oil Reserves

The problem is the elect administration would rather the oil companies take their "record profits" and distribute it to the many government projects via taxes.

They won't then be able to spend 10million here and there on such things as drilling wells. Nor the hundreds of millions it takes to develop new ways to get at all that oil that is not cost effective to drill.

All those "record profits" aren't going into ceo hands, at least not where I work.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DakotaDude
Excellent point. I get extremely frustrated at misinformed and shortsighted individuals (many of my relatives, for example) who vociferously demand we (the USA) develop our oil reserves (but don't do it in their back yard, by God!!!) and free ourselves from the stranglehold of foreign oil. We do need to develop our reserves - right up to the point that all we have to do is turn a valve and we immediately have excess supply ready to burn. This scenario will keep the greedy middle eastern bastards in check regarding oil prices. We should drain every last drop of foreign oil before we use any of "ours". Having "ours" ready to put in the pipeline at a moments notice will control price gouging and avert the future energy crises promulgated by the sheiks and mullahs. The middle east has absolutely NOTHING to offer but oil; they need us even more than we need them.

James Ranks
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post #20 of 21 Old Nov 13th, 2008, 9:49 am
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Re: Saudi Oil Reserves

I guess most of us have noted that Congress has done little or nothing to promote energy independence for this WONDERFULL COUNTRY OF OURS! Thirty + years since the seventies energy crunch and Congress has done nothing. A few months ago we had another shortage. I still do not see anything being done by Congress that is realistic. We have no leadership in the executive branch or the legislative branches of our government, only selfish people with one thought in mind, get reelected, and with their hands out all the time for more bribes.
I blame the media too. If the media were doing their job as our watch dogs instead of promoting their own agenda, we the people could attract quality people with high morals to politics and solve our energy problems relatively quickly.
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post #21 of 21 Old Nov 13th, 2008, 11:10 am
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Re: Saudi Oil Reserves

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morley
Looks like it will be sooner. They have started drilling in the bakken oil field up in N.D. It is supposed to be the largest single oil field found so far.
http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=1911
Actually they had discovered and started drilling that field ten or fifteen years ago with some good degree of success. Then the state; once again in one of those moments of pure genius; decided to put a tax at the well head.........the operators said the usual 'U* Y**rs"; capped the well heads and walked away.
Now that oil had peaked earlier this summer they went back in and went whole hog. Price is once again(just today) back under$60 a barrel so you may see things slow up a bit, but it is still money in the bank for the long run......

Everything I've heard in the industry is that is a good field with lots of potential.
It sounds like the state may have reconcidered the well head production tax but I'll guess it is still going to be an issue and may keep some of the better producers away..................? If you want to see a lot of drilling; you can look out in our back yard here in Wyoming..............some where in the neighborhood of 34 rigs within about 20 miles of the house............not counting the work over and completion rigs....................Pipeline work is out of the world...........one more 36 inch line going to California's Kern River valley........most likely for power plants.............and one headed for Dat., Ohio as well......................

Actually, I'd have to call this area the economic engine of the west at this moment.............but what do I know?

B-Safe; Jim
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