Leadership?? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 17 Old Nov 9th, 2008, 9:32 am Thread Starter
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Leadership??

What make a good leader?? Rank and or their postions or is it the person who has earned their subordinate's respect?

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post #2 of 17 Old Nov 9th, 2008, 10:19 am
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Re: Leadership??

Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman587
What make a good leader?? Rank and or their postions or is it the person who has earned their subordinate's respect?
Here is a good read.

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post #3 of 17 Old Nov 9th, 2008, 10:22 am
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Re: Leadership??

My favorite leadership quote:

Leadership is the art of getting someone else to do something you want done because he wants to do it.

Dwight Eisenhower


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post #4 of 17 Old Nov 9th, 2008, 4:08 pm
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Re: Leadership??

Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman587
What make a good leader?? Rank and or their postions or is it the person who has earned their subordinate's respect?
For me, it's always been about earning my respect (that is, me as the leader's subordinate).

I highly recommend Gen. Schwarzkopf's autobiography that came out after he retired -- "It Doesn't Take A Hero". Don't be fooled by the title - he's not calling himself a hero; read the book and he explains it.

In the book, Schwarzkopf discusses his entire career, along the way pointing out ineffective leaders and effective leaders. He describes, for example, a senior CO in Vietnam who slept in pajamas... in a tent... with an aide outside the door, all while his troops slept in their dirty combat gear under their parkas.

After 30 years in Cubicle World I just shake my head every time I hear "command center", "war room", "leadership team", "senior leaders", "all hands on deck" and other military-esque references to managers, VPs, and team meetings, etc. In my humble opinion these folks have no idea what it means to be a leader, and very few of them are good ones. Some of them have been good managers (and a couple have been real AHs), but most aren't good leaders. I have to resist the urge to say "Sorry guys, calling yourself a leader doesn't mean you are one."

I am happy when I work for a good manager but I can only think of 2 who were leaders.

My short answer is: I think a good leader has to earn the respect of his/her subordinates by example. There is also an element of something else -- call it nature, temperament, DNA, or whatever, but a good leader has something that not everyone else has. He knows how to use it for good, and to accomplish things - whether in the office or on the battlefield.

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post #5 of 17 Old Nov 9th, 2008, 6:02 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Leadership??

Thank you for the read and information.

John
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post #6 of 17 Old Nov 9th, 2008, 6:42 pm
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Re: Leadership??

Leadership cannot be bestowed, even though highly structured organizations like the armed forces, police and fire who use ranking to attempt this would have you think so. Leadership is earned through working with people and developing a level of trust and relationships with them that you (or whoever the leader is) is worthy of following, has good ideas, makes sure everyone on the team is heard and their ideas and input valued, will support them when things go wrong, and in general has their backs, so in turn they feel good about having yours.

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post #7 of 17 Old Nov 9th, 2008, 6:52 pm
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Re: Leadership??

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidTaylor
Leadership cannot be bestowed, even though highly structured organizations like the armed forces, police and fire who use ranking to attempt this would have you think so. Leadership is earned through working with people and developing a level of trust and relationships with them that you (or whoever the leader is) is worthy of following, has good ideas, makes sure everyone on the team is heard and their ideas and input valued, will support them when things go wrong, and in general has their backs, so in turn they feel good about having yours.
Well said!

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post #8 of 17 Old Nov 9th, 2008, 7:50 pm
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Re: Leadership??

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidTaylor
Leadership cannot be bestowed, even though highly structured organizations like the armed forces, police and fire who use ranking to attempt this would have you think so. Leadership is earned through working with people and developing a level of trust and relationships with them that you (or whoever the leader is) is worthy of following, has good ideas, makes sure everyone on the team is heard and their ideas and input valued, will support them when things go wrong, and in general has their backs, so in turn they feel good about having yours.
Hear hear!

Howard Schisler
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post #9 of 17 Old Nov 9th, 2008, 8:35 pm
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Re: Leadership??

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidTaylor
Leadership cannot be bestowed, even though highly structured organizations like the armed forces, police and fire who use ranking to attempt this would have you think so. Leadership is earned through working with people and developing a level of trust and relationships with them that you (or whoever the leader is) is worthy of following, has good ideas, makes sure everyone on the team is heard and their ideas and input valued, will support them when things go wrong, and in general has their backs, so in turn they feel good about having yours.
Just when I start thinking what a dumb ass that David Taylor is you pull something like this out of your ass.

Well said David!!!

Jerry
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post #10 of 17 Old Nov 9th, 2008, 11:04 pm
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Re: Leadership??

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidTaylor
Leadership cannot be bestowed, even though highly structured organizations like the armed forces, police and fire who use ranking to attempt this would have you think so. Leadership is earned through working with people and developing a level of trust and relationships with them that you (or whoever the leader is) is worthy of following, has good ideas, makes sure everyone on the team is heard and their ideas and input valued, will support them when things go wrong, and in general has their backs, so in turn they feel good about having yours.
Wouldn't it be great if we could elect a President that way? Congress too, for that matter.

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post #11 of 17 Old Nov 9th, 2008, 11:12 pm
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Re: Leadership??

What would be nicer is if we could remove our duly elected reps when they don't do what we put them in office for...like say a special election to remove them. Then maybe the "next in line" would get the message.
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post #12 of 17 Old Nov 9th, 2008, 11:24 pm
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Re: Leadership??

Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman587
What make a good leader?? Rank and or their postions or is it the person who has earned their subordinate's respect?
1. To be a leader, one MUST know humility. For which one of us knows everything? In other words, A leader is ALWAYS humble enough to ask for advice and accept council.

2. Leadership is NEVER bestowed--only earned--for we don't need another puppet. In other words, a title or position DOES NOT make you a leader.

3. A leader ALWAYS remembers his debt to his community/organization. To every man that helped him become a leader, he owes the same to TEN other men. In other words, a leader NEVER forgets where he came from, who helped him get to where he is AND his responsibility to give back.

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #13 of 17 Old Nov 10th, 2008, 6:47 pm
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Re: Leadership??

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Originally Posted by Lonewuff
Just when I start thinking what a dumb ass that David Taylor is you pull something like this out of your ass.

Well said David!!!
Sorry to blow your perceptions of me, I know how much it hurts to have one's bubble burst like that.

David Taylor
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post #14 of 17 Old Nov 10th, 2008, 10:43 pm
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Re: Leadership??

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Originally Posted by motorman587
What make a good leader?? Rank and or their postions or is it the person who has earned their subordinate's respect?
Very good question. Another good question is what is the difference between a Manager and a Leader.

IMHO a Manager "manages" people and a current process. A Leader will lead people and take the process to the next level. This is accomplished through motivation and integrity.

My favorite quote: "If you have a Yes Man working for you, one of you is redundant" Colin Powell

Having a Yes Man working for you has never been a problem my supervisors ever had.

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post #15 of 17 Old Nov 11th, 2008, 9:03 am
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Re: Leadership??

Back near the turn of the century I read an awesome piece on "Leadership" by Powell. Maybe in Powerpoint? I thought...wow! This dude rocks! Then he made that pathetic speech.
Still, his theories on leadership are bang-on, plain language pointers.
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post #16 of 17 Old Nov 11th, 2008, 4:14 pm
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Re: Leadership??

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkMeister
Back near the turn of the century I read an awesome piece on "Leadership" by Powell. Maybe in Powerpoint? I thought...wow! This dude rocks! Then he made that pathetic speech.
Still, his theories on leadership are bang-on, plain language pointers.
Yep, that's the link in the 2nd post on this thread. Agree with your description, every slide is bang on.
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post #17 of 17 Old Nov 11th, 2008, 11:02 pm
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Re: Leadership??

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Originally Posted by LostInAlaska
....My favorite quote: "If you have a Yes Man working for you, one of you is redundant" Colin Powell....
We know that's NOT true. Otherwise the world wouldn't be so full of suck asses!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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