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post #1 of 44 Old Nov 8th, 2008, 10:21 pm Thread Starter
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The Third Jihad

This video has some scary stuff in it. Do you think this is a true representation of what's going on in America?


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post #2 of 44 Old Nov 8th, 2008, 11:10 pm
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Re: The Third Jihad

Yes, I do believe that much of what is going on in this country is stemming from their movement. And the bad part? People all over and even on this board are condemning the very organization put in place to root out the "homegrown" terrorists. If there were no Homeland Security office would those 30 plots have been stopped? I don't think I'd want to find out.
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Re: The Third Jihad

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morley
... I don't think I'd want to find out.
Sorry.

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post #4 of 44 Old Nov 8th, 2008, 11:57 pm
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Re: The Third Jihad

So what exactly is your point here? Is it to open an intelligent dialogue on a growing world crisis? Is it to "wake us all up"? Is it that you're concerned about such things and you want the group's opinion here?

Note that I'm not confirming or denying anything in the video, nor am I adding in my opinion on any aspect of this. Nor am I condemning your right to post such a link. But you have to know that this thread will turn very ugly, very fast.

If y'all thought the elections got ugly, then I hate to see where this is headed . . .

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post #5 of 44 Old Nov 9th, 2008, 12:01 am Thread Starter
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Re: The Third Jihad

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
So what exactly is your point here?
A good friend of mine, who is usually quite reasonable sent me this link. I watched the whole thing and it seems believable...

What do you think Ken?

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post #6 of 44 Old Nov 9th, 2008, 12:13 am
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Re: The Third Jihad

Yes I have a feeling that this will turn bad quick.
Scarry it is.

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post #7 of 44 Old Nov 9th, 2008, 2:52 am
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Re: The Third Jihad

Gee Ted this is like a baby ruth bar floating in the pool. It is going to get some kind of attention. It got mine.

I decided to look into Jihad some and pledge to be educated; This video is very disturbing indeed. Look at another interview conducted by a director who helped make documentaries on suicide bombers. This interview really cuts hard to the bone of what is going on elsewhere in the world but says it is coming this way.

I might not be the most articulate on this site and for sure not one of best informed on this topic, but I know that I don't like what has been dished out by these groups profiled in this video and what I see in the news. If the Muslim religion is growing faster than any other then who is it appealing to? Certinly it must be a real draw to men who have a feeling of a loss of control in their life. Someone who needs answers that only a book or savy orator can give them is easy prey for any indoctrination (any religion can be plugged in as well as any organization with the "answers" someone is looking for). Is it a draw for women? Not any I've met, and those Muslim who I've asked are very tight liped about what they like/dislike. Surely I was not impressed with their attitude. I would not get a warm fuzzy taking my wife to a Mosque for a look-see.

Another aspect that I don't care for is the way some people treat discussions in this arena and others like it. When it gets tough and people write things that come from the heart it is often dismissed with condesending comments: "We've been down this road before" (yawn), "It is a complicated subject" (like I didn't already know that, so smarty why don't you teach me I'm so ignorant), and "someone might be offended with this topic" (so, a lot of people didn't want to face Facism for instance and see where it took the world).

What I'm saying is: I like an open debate without censorship. let the subject have its legs, and if it can't cut it... It will die. If it educates us so be it. If it draws out prejudice, so be it. If it causes you to change your attitude about this site and the people on it... That is your issue to deal with. If what I believe, and have rights to say, cause you not to want to sit down and drink a beer with me... well maybe the feeling is mutual anyway and I promise not to take it personal.

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post #8 of 44 Old Nov 9th, 2008, 12:41 pm
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Re: The Third Jihad

Look to Europe and what is going on there with the Muslims. Now think 10 years or so from now and imagine the U.S.
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post #9 of 44 Old Nov 9th, 2008, 3:32 pm
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Re: The Third Jihad

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Shred
What do you think Ken?
I'm not saying that I disagree with the premise, although the video is typically over-sensationalized.

But I find it sad that now that the elections are over we have concurrent threads on Jihad and the Muslims infiltrating America, concealed carry rights and hiding guns in the home, what defines a "real leader," and how the U.N. is planning on destroying America.

Individually, any of these positions could be argued intelligently, or devolve into typically irrational blathering. But taken together, it points out the same old tired refrain: "I don't trust this guy, and I know they're coming to get us, so I'm gonna fight to the death."

Regardless of any individual issue or argument, I think that these collectively represent the state of fear and mistrust that this country has been feeding on for the past decade. Yes, we need to be aware and able to protect ourselves, but we also need to look at the current issues based on facts and realities, not just sensationalism and a misplaced sense of patriotism based primarily on the philosophy of "kill anyone who disagrees with us." For once we fall prey to that logic, what makes us any different from our enemies?

Yes, the world is a scary place and it's gonna get ugly around here. But why rush headlong into it, guns blazing and minds shut?

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post #10 of 44 Old Nov 9th, 2008, 3:35 pm
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Re: The Third Jihad

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErnieA
Gee Ted this is like a baby ruth bar floating in the pool.
Great analogy there, Ernie.

I agree that if this conversation can remain civil and rational then it may be of interest. But the originally posted video has already taken things in the direction of fear mongering so I don't have high hopes for it.

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post #11 of 44 Old Nov 9th, 2008, 8:13 pm
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Question Re: The Third Jihad

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morley
Look to Europe and what is going on there with the Muslims. Now think 10 years or so from now and imagine the U.S.
So what is going on in Europe, and where specifically in Europe?

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post #12 of 44 Old Nov 9th, 2008, 8:52 pm
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Re: The Third Jihad

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So what is going on in Europe, and where specifically in Europe?
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post #13 of 44 Old Nov 9th, 2008, 8:57 pm
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Re: The Third Jihad

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So what is going on in Europe, and where specifically in Europe?
Everywhere in Europe
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post #14 of 44 Old Nov 10th, 2008, 12:57 am
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Re: The Third Jihad

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morley
....People all over and even on this board are condemning the very organization put in place to root out the "homegrown" terrorists. If there were no Homeland Security office would those 30 plots have been stopped? I don't think I'd want to find out.
I make no apologies for bagging on another huge, bloated nanny-state, big government bureaucracy. The question is not whether these 30 plots would have been stopped, but how many more would have been stopped if all the in-fighting, overlapping functions and waste, were ended?

Better yet, if we eliminated some waste, by ending foolish wars that we created with our silly drug policies, imagine how many more resources we could focus on real terrorists--instead of ones we create?

As we continue down the never ending road to bigger and more powerful government, with such novel ideas as Homeland Security and the Patriot Act, etc, we need to ask ourselves how much freedom are we willing to give up? For once our freedom is gone, it will be to late to realise that we have neither freedom, nor security. Maybe, again, that's exactly what we deserve?

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #15 of 44 Old Nov 10th, 2008, 1:03 am Thread Starter
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Re: The Third Jihad

"Consider: In Manchester, England, a radical Muslim who does not even speak English has been elected to the city council, where he needs an interpreter"

Wow that's just crazy!! Surprised this hasn't happened here in Sunny Mexifornia

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post #16 of 44 Old Nov 10th, 2008, 1:25 am
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Re: The Third Jihad

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayjacobson
The question is not whether these 30 plots would have been stopped, but how many more would have been stopped if all the in-fighting, overlapping functions and waste, were ended?
Which "how many more"? I know of none that have not been stopped since 9-11...No domestic ones anyway.
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post #17 of 44 Old Nov 10th, 2008, 2:10 am
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Re: The Third Jihad

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Shred
....Wow that's just crazy!! Surprised this hasn't happened here in Sunny Mexifornia
Sounds a lot like sunny Kommyfornia!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morley
Which "how many more"? I know of none that have not been stopped since 9-11...No domestic ones anyway.
We could have done better PRIOR to 9-11, obviously.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Shred
911 WAS the second attempt to bring the towers down. We should have been a bit more vigilant.
Not even getting into "intelligence" lapses: the need to harden cockpit doors was recognized at least ten years prior to 9-11. Arming pilots and allowing police officers to "carry" beyond checkpoints and aboard aircraft, another.

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #18 of 44 Old Nov 10th, 2008, 2:14 am Thread Starter
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Re: The Third Jihad

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayjacobson
We could have done better PRIOR to 9-11, obviously.
911 WAS the second attempt to bring the towers down. We should have been a bit more vigilant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_T..._1993_bombings

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post #19 of 44 Old Nov 10th, 2008, 2:51 am
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Re: The Third Jihad

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Shred
911 WAS the second attempt to bring the towers down. We should have been a bit more vigilant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_T..._1993_bombings
Yes it was. Lots of people forget the failed bombing attempt. I won't say who was to blame for not taking that "warning" seriously but at least we have "something" in place now to attempt to thwart terrorists.
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post #20 of 44 Old Nov 10th, 2008, 2:54 am
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Re: The Third Jihad

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayjacobson
. Arming pilots and allowing police officers to "carry" beyond checkpoints and aboard aircraft, another.
I have a real problem with arming "Jonny Jet Jockey". Having been in aviation for more than 30 years and have met more pilots than I care to count...They don't need guns.
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post #21 of 44 Old Nov 10th, 2008, 3:04 am
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Re: The Third Jihad

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morley
....I won't say who was to blame for not taking that "warning" seriously but at least we have "something" in place now to attempt to thwart terrorists.
But I will! Ultimately I would lay the blame with the President, at the time. He had several chances to liquidate several top terrorists (Bin Laden, included). But....

In theory, we HAD multiple "intelligence" agencies in place to thwart terrorists. They just didn't want to talk to each other, local police, or be aggressive in following up potential leads.

I would caution you feeling any safer with the creation of the mega agency know as "Homeland Security."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morley
I have a real problem with arming "Jonny Jet Jockey"....
OK--would a hardball be out of line, then?!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morley
....It ain't perfect (it is government after all) but it is a start in the right direction, a single entity with control/oversight of security within our borders is what is needed not to mention cooperation from the FBI & CIA with said entity.
Morley, my man! Did you have to bring up the EVIL "B" word: BORDERS?! Don't get me started!....

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #22 of 44 Old Nov 10th, 2008, 3:08 am
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Re: The Third Jihad

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayjacobson
I would caution you feeling any safer with the creation of the mega agency know as "Homeland Security."
I won't say "safer" but it seems to be working better than the non-existant system we had before. It ain't perfect (it is government after all) but it is a start in the right direction, a single entity with control/oversight of security within our borders is what is needed not to mention cooperation from the FBI & CIA with said entity.
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post #23 of 44 Old Nov 10th, 2008, 6:20 pm
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Re: The Third Jihad

I came across an interesting story that relates directly to this topic: Lieberman Lends His Name To Fear-Mongering Documentary On American Muslims And Terrorism.

So, it seems that this video and the one preceding it definitely are direct propaganda films made to instill fear and distrust in the voting public. Apparently, Obsession: Radical Islam's War Against The West "was distributed through newspaper inserts and mass mailings to 28 million swing-state households during the campaign." Hmm, to "swing-state" voters, just as the Presidential campaign was reaching it's final crescendo?

And the follow-up film, The Third Jihad: Radical Islam's Vision For America is being endorsed by Joe Lieberman, who is currently fighting to maintain his position as Chairman of the Senate Homeland Security Committee. It all seems rather biased to me . . .

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post #24 of 44 Old Nov 10th, 2008, 6:52 pm Thread Starter
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Re: The Third Jihad

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
I came across an interesting story that relates directly to this topic: Lieberman Lends His Name To Fear-Mongering Documentary On American Muslims And Terrorism.

So, it seems that this video and the one preceding it definitely are direct propaganda films made to instill fear and distrust in the voting public. Apparently, Obsession: Radical Islam's War Against The West "was distributed through newspaper inserts and mass mailings to 28 million swing-state households during the campaign." Hmm, to "swing-state" voters, just as the Presidential campaign was reaching it's final crescendo?

And the follow-up film, The Third Jihad: Radical Islam's Vision For America is being endorsed by Joe Lieberman, who is currently fighting to maintain his position as Chairman of the Senate Homeland Security Committee. It all seems rather biased to me . . .
Your cited sourse is pretty thin there Ken. A very left leaning BLOG run by a couple of guys in New York who started their web site to complain about the recount in 2000....


The left has been upset with Lieberman since he defected. He may even join the Republican Party now after his treatmetf by Senate Dems since the election.

If he is involved in this video that gives it more credibility for me, not less. He IS the chairman of the Homeland Security Committee.

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post #25 of 44 Old Nov 10th, 2008, 8:12 pm
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Re: The Third Jihad

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Shred
Your cited sourse is pretty thin there Ken.
Agreed. It was maybe 30 seconds of Google to find that one. I could perhaps find a couple more if you'd like.

Still the fact that they targeted swing states with a video specifically designed to be inflammatory does give credit to the assertion that it's just another part of the ongoing campaign of fear. And I'm not saying the video is entirely wrong, but there's no way that it is a pure "documentary" solely designed to enlighten the public. My point is that it's just as biased as everything else we get bombarded with these days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Shred
If he is involved in this video that gives it more credibility for me, not less.
Why is that? Because he's fighting for his job which is entirely based on fear of foreign attacks on our own soil? It seems to me that his participation in this video is a thinly-veiled justification for his own job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Shred
He IS the chairman of the Homeland Security Committee.
Not for long . . .

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post #26 of 44 Old Nov 10th, 2008, 8:15 pm Thread Starter
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Re: The Third Jihad

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese

Why is that? Because he's fighting for his job which is entirely based on fear of foreign attacks on our own soil? It seems to me that his participation in this video is a thinly-veiled justification for his own job.
His job is a US Senator. You're saying that position is based on fear of foreign attacks? Doesn't make any sense, sorry.

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post #27 of 44 Old Nov 10th, 2008, 8:19 pm
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Re: The Third Jihad

I hope the GOP take Lieberman They can have him...

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post #28 of 44 Old Nov 10th, 2008, 9:24 pm
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Re: The Third Jihad

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Shred
His job is a US Senator. You're saying that position is based on fear of foreign attacks? Doesn't make any sense, sorry.
Not his Senate job, but his position as Chairman of the Homeland Security Committee. That appointment is in no way guaranteed.

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post #29 of 44 Old Nov 10th, 2008, 9:29 pm Thread Starter
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Re: The Third Jihad

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Originally Posted by meese
Not his Senate job, but his position as Chairman of the Homeland Security Committee. That appointment is in no way guaranteed.
I know what you meant. Let's talk about that for a moment. Why is he going to loose that job? Has he done poorly? Has he done a bad job of overseeing Homeland Security??

NO. This is PURE partisan politics. The Dems don't need his vote anymore so he is being punished for not supporting their guy.

Nice to see some CHANGE in Washington. What a joke.

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post #30 of 44 Old Nov 10th, 2008, 10:18 pm
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Re: The Third Jihad

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Originally Posted by meese
...just another part of the ongoing campaign of fear.
I don't want to get into the whole debate of this thread, but a campaign to make the electorate aware of the risks we might face, could also be characterized as a campaign of fear. Which is it? I suppose it is all relative to perspective.

I think there is a case to be made that many people in America are completely unaware of what is really going on outside of their rather narrow field of view. In order for any of us to make an intelligent decision as to what plan for our security has the greatest chance for success, we have to have a general understanding of the risks we face. If I was to make people aware of risks that I feel need to be addressed, before laying out my plan for security, it would leave my campaign open to being a campaign of fear.

Do some campaigns overstate risk, you bet. Do others unnecessarily minimize it, again ditto. Frankly, I don't think any campaign has hit hard enough, or broadly enough at the real risks we face today. The fragility we see in our financial markets should give any intelligent person pause for thought as to where we are really vulnerable.

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Re: The Third Jihad

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This is PURE partisan politics.
Again, agreed. But I don't think it's much different than what's been going on in Washington already. I believe that if McCain had won, he'd be doing some house-cleaning, too.

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Re: The Third Jihad

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Originally Posted by meese
Again, agreed. But I don't think it's much different than what's been going on in Washington already. I believe that if McCain had won, he'd be doing some house-cleaning, too.
I don't see this as the usual house cleaning or changing of the guard or the new President appointing people to positions in an administration.

It's retribution.

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post #33 of 44 Old Nov 10th, 2008, 10:37 pm
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Re: The Third Jihad

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I think there is a case to be made that many people in America are completely unaware of what is really going on outside of their rather narrow field of view. In order for any of us to make an intelligent decision as to what plan for our security has the greatest chance for success, we have to have a general understanding of the risks we face. If I was to make people aware of risks that I feel need to be addressed, before laying out my plan for security, it would leave my campaign open to being a campaign of fear.
I agree here, too. But that particular video (yes, I watched all of it) is not just presenting facts to an unknowing populace, but is doing so in a very aggressive and inflammatory way. Plus the timing and methods of distribution are also very suspect.

I believe there is a basis of truth in there, and that most average Joe's haven't a clue as to how bad things are, or are gonna get. Or, honestly, that they don't want to know. But painting every single Muslim in America as out to "get us" and undermine our country in fact does a disservice to the Muslims as well as the Americans.

It's like saying that just because one final drive failed, that all LTs and in fact all BMW's are doomed and we're all gonna die because of it. So lets just scrap all BMW in order to save ourselves and the unknowing riders around us.

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post #34 of 44 Old Nov 10th, 2008, 10:38 pm
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Re: The Third Jihad

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It's retribution.
Sorry, I figured that was part of the house-cleaning.

But Lieberman has to know what's coming. He's already had several direct heated conversations with Obama over the past few months (possibly years).

Now if he's truly an Independent, fighting for what he believes is right and is simply falling victim to a political vendetta that's bad for all of us. But we all know that politics is much more complicated than that, and that the public rarely sees the whole truth on any issue.

Besides, how can you trust a politician who's name starts with "Lie"? Guess he's not just your average "Joe" after all.

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post #35 of 44 Old Nov 10th, 2008, 10:45 pm
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Re: The Third Jihad

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
I agree here, too. But that particular video (yes, I watched all of it) is not just presenting facts to an unknowing populace, but is doing so in a very aggressive and inflammatory way. Plus the timing and methods of distribution are also very suspect.

I believe there is a basis of truth in there, and that most average Joe's haven't a clue as to how bad things are, or are gonna get. Or, honestly, that they don't want to know. But painting every single Muslim in America as out to "get us" and undermine our country in fact does a disservice to the Muslims as well as the Americans.

It's like saying that just because one final drive failed, that all LTs and in fact all BMW's are doomed and we're all gonna die because of it. So lets just scrap all BMW in order to save ourselves and the unknowing riders around us.
I have no argument that that the video is crafted so as to drive the viewer to a specific conclusion. It is the broad brush of painting one side as conducting a 'campaign of fear' that I take exception to. One man's awareness is another man's fear.

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post #36 of 44 Old Nov 11th, 2008, 12:56 am
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Re: The Third Jihad

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It is the broad brush of painting one side as conducting a 'campaign of fear' that I take exception to. One man's awareness is another man's fear.
Fair enough. And maybe most of us need to wake up and have the [email protected] scared out of us. Like I said, I don't necessarily disagree with the basis of the video, except when they use that broad brush to paint all Muslims as "the enemy." Sure, it's a basic human response to be wary of anyone different, but fueling this kind of blanket bigotry only leads to hatred and death on both sides. This whole mess is an epoch-defining religious war, and we're all being swept along like it or not.

Another sign of the ongoing campaign of fear is evident in the way they kept portraying McCain as a war hero, while Obama was at best inexperienced and unpatriotic and at worst a traitor who wants to take all your guns away. Some camps went so far as to call him a terrorist directly.

To paraphrase an old saying, if your business is making bullets, then sooner or later everything looks like a target. I believe the Military-Industrial Complex has gotten way out of hand, that the Government is complicit in this, and that we're all paying the price.

"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist."

-- Eisenhower, Farewell Address

I also think the whole campaign of fear is playing out in the sudden rage of gun threads seen here. And in the frustrations felt by just under half of the voters, and it's pretty easy to see where it's all coming from. Note that I am not denying anyone their 2nd Amendment rights, but it is interesting that these discussions have spiked so closely after the elections. And I believe that we have to be just as vigilant regarding the 1st, 4th, and 6th, Amendments, and the rest of them as well.

And not to go way back, but I also believe that Bush et. al. have used 9/11 to throw in some unprecedented sweeping changes that threaten the very freedoms that they claim to be protecting.

"The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

Again, I don't necessarily think everything done in the War Against Terror™ is automatically evil or unjustified. There are multiple reports coming out now about Bush, Rumsfeld, and the CIA chasing Al-Qaeda across the globe, even across borders without those other country's consent. Al-Qaeda attacked us, not Saddam, so go ahead and pursue every last one of them into whatever refuge they may seek.

Obama has said that he will review all the Executive Orders passed in the last 8 years. Not that he will automatically overturn them, but that he will review each one. That makes sense. He has also said that while he wants to reduce troop involvement in Iraq, he believes that we need to be more aggressive chasing the Taliban in Afghanistan and Al-Qaeda wherever they may hide. That also makes sense in a way that Iraq never did.

Someone here recently suggested that Obama has probably been having some fairly grave conversations about the current world situation over the last week or so. Maybe even to the point of having the [email protected] scared out of him. I can believe that, but I have some hope that he'll respond in the best way that he knows how and that he'll search for a solution that doesn't lead to killing half the planet.

Either way, all we can really do now is wait and see. And that is the scariest part of all.

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post #37 of 44 Old Nov 11th, 2008, 1:04 am
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Re: The Third Jihad

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy
....It is the broad brush of painting one side as conducting a 'campaign of fear' that I take exception to. One man's awareness is another man's fear.
Funny how much of what we hear is "fear-mongering." I've never believed in it. A man already has fear in his heart--or not. What is already there cannot be instilled.
Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
....Another sign of the ongoing campaign of fear is evident in the way they kept portraying McCain as a war hero, while Obama was at best inexperienced and unpatriotic and at worst a traitor who wants to take all your guns away. Some camps went so far as to call him a terrorist directly....
Like I always say: if the shoes fits, Cinderfella....
Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
....To paraphrase an old saying, if your business is making bullets, then sooner or later everything looks like a target....
And if you make rifle scopes, everything has crosshairs on it, right? WTF?!
Quote:
....I also think the whole campaign of fear is playing out in the sudden rage of gun threads seen here....
Fear plays no part in the big increase of gun sales going on nationally (or the threads in this fine forum). It's actually very simple and logical: A gun grabber has just been elected president. Combined with a majority in congress who also do not understand the second amendment, one would be wise to make his purchase now--for soon he may not be able to.

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #38 of 44 Old Nov 11th, 2008, 1:14 am
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Re: The Third Jihad

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Originally Posted by jayjacobson
Funny how much of what we hear is "fear-mongering." I've never believed in it. A man already has fear in his heart--or not. What is already there cannot be instilled.
Fear is a natural human emotion designed to protect us from danger, or the unknown. So everyone has fear in their hearts, just as we all have love, joy, hope, anger, sadness, etc.

But it is possible to prey on someone's emotions and to manipulate them into feeling or reacting a certain way. Some are more skilled at it than others, just as some are more resistant to such manipulations.

So no one is creating fear out of nothing, but it can be inflamed through manipulation and whipped into a frenzy beyond all reason based on some carefully-played deceptions. And that is fear-mongering, whatever label you may want to put to it.

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post #39 of 44 Old Nov 11th, 2008, 1:33 am
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Re: The Third Jihad

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
Fear is a natural human emotion designed to protect us from danger, or the unknown. So everyone has fear in their hearts, just as we all have love, joy, hope, anger, sadness, etc....
Not all of us live our life flying by the seat of our emotions. Fear is an irrational response to darkness. He who walks in the light FEELS no fear. Perhaps one day you'll find your "light."

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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Re: The Third Jihad

I do not fear those who look and think different and speak out. They are easy to keep track of.

It is those who are trying to "blend" in and go unnoticed that worry those involved in thwarting future attacks. Some are just assimilateing into western society, some are up to no good (aka the 911 bunch).

Any demographic/ethnic group has its bad apples. The trick is how to keep the bad apples from rotting the rest of the barrel, be it gangs, politicans, religious groups, cops and others.

It is not an easy task to stay ahead of the bad apples, but I am glad we have people who are trying.

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post #41 of 44 Old Nov 11th, 2008, 5:37 am
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Re: The Third Jihad

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
.... it can be inflamed through manipulation and whipped into a frenzy beyond all reason based on some carefully-played deceptions. And that is fear-mongering, whatever label you may want to put to it.
Fear the bad Republicans...they're trying to scare you...

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post #42 of 44 Old Nov 11th, 2008, 10:10 am
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Re: The Third Jihad

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Fear the bad Republicans...they're trying to scare you...
Yes! They obviously have fear in their hearts!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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Re: The Third Jihad

Quote:
Originally Posted by dougholck
I do not fear those who look and think different and speak out. They are easy to keep track of.

It is those who are trying to "blend" in and go unnoticed that worry those involved in thwarting future attacks. Some are just assimilateing into western society, some are up to no good (aka the 911 bunch).

Any demographic/ethnic group has its bad apples. The trick is how to keep the bad apples from rotting the rest of the barrel, be it gangs, politicans, religious groups, cops and others.

It is not an easy task to stay ahead of the bad apples, but I am glad we have people who are trying.
Be careful there Doug. That kind of reasonable thinking will not be tolerated here

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post #44 of 44 Old Nov 11th, 2008, 9:31 pm
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Re: The Third Jihad

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
I agree here, too. But that particular video (yes, I watched all of it) is not just presenting facts to an unknowing populace, but is doing so in a very aggressive and inflammatory way. Plus the timing and methods of distribution are also very suspect.


But Ken how do you produce something this serious and not present it "aggressive and inflammatory"? If you were to take this subject and present it any other way it will fall on deaf ears. As in any debate one must make an argument or go home. What's wrong with this distribution?

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
I believe there is a basis of truth in there, and that most average Joe's haven't a clue as to how bad things are, or are gonna get. Or, honestly, that they don't want to know. But painting every single Muslim in Americalace as out to "get us" and undermine our country in fact does a disservice to the Muslims as well as the Americans.


I watched and listened to this video (more than once BTW) and I do not see a correlation between its message and yours that it is "painting every single Muslim in Americala as out to 'get us' and undermine our country". I think that the speaker and myself are still looking for the Muslim religion to aggressively work hand-in-hand with other religions, governments and uncommitted individuals to live and work together peacefully. But like the speaker points out that the focus of this religion is to dominate, so working together is not on the agenda.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
It's like saying that just because one final drive failed, that all LTs and in fact all BMW's are doomed and we're all gonna die because of it. So lets just scrap all BMW in order to save ourselves and the unknowing riders around us.


I was wondering how long it was going to take to hijack this into a BMW final drive thread. A little humor can go a long way.

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