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post #1 of 39 Old Nov 5th, 2008, 1:43 pm Thread Starter
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First blood... sitting down unconditionally

Russia, China and Iran, to name only 3, have set the confrontational stage, just as they did during the Clinton admin.

Russia has sent a message.

China has sent a message.

Iran has sent a message.

.... and the stock market is having fun.

...............
J.M.J...
Dcn Channing

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post #2 of 39 Old Nov 5th, 2008, 1:55 pm
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Re: First blood... sitting down unconditionally

What's that cut and paste rule?

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post #3 of 39 Old Nov 5th, 2008, 2:14 pm
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Re: First blood... sitting down unconditionally

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveDragon
Actually, A lot of World Leaders have sent a message:

Barack Obama: [To] all those watching tonight from beyond our shores, from parliaments and palaces to those who are huddled around radios in the forgotten corners of the world - our stories are singular but our destiny is shared. A new dawn of American leadership is at hand.

Afghanistan





Hamid Karzai, the Afghan president, congratulated Obama on his US election victory, saying it took the world into a "new era".

However, Karzai said Obama should aim to prevent civilians in Afghanistan from being killed and injured by the US military.

"Our demand is that there will be no civilian casualties in Afghanistan. We cannot win the fight against terrorism with air strikes," Karzai said.

"This is my first demand of the new president of the United States - to put an end to civilian casualties."

Iraq





Hoshyar Zebari, the Iraqi foreign minister, said Washington would not adopt a "quick disengagement" policy with Baghdad under the presidency of Barack Obama as a "great deal is at stake here".

Speaking to Al Jazeera, Zebari said: "I think it [Obama's election] was a major, major change ... although as far as Iraq is concerned I don't believe there will be any changes overnight. And there won't be any immediate disengagement because a great deal is at stake for everybody.

"I don't think there is much difference between the Iraqi government position and President-elect Obama's. He is contemplating withdrawing US forces within 16 months. We may have some difficulties with that time-line, but we also, in the status of forces agreement, set the date of 2011 as the date for the withdrawal of US troops from Iraq. So really the differences are not very wide."

Pakistan





Yousuf Raza Gilani, Pakistan's prime minister, congratulated Obama on his victory, saying he hoped the Democrat would promote "peace and stability" in the region around Afghanistan.

"I hope that under your dynamic leadership, [the] United States will continue to be a source of global peace and new ideas for humanity," he said in a statement, directed at Obama.

"I look forward to more opportunities to discuss ways to further strengthen Pakistan-US relations and to promote peace and stability in our region and beyond."

Obama has riled Islamabad in the past, pledging that the US under his leadership would "take out" al-Qaeda and Taliban bases in Pakistan.

Palestinian Territories





Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian president, congratulated Obama and urged him to speed up efforts to reach an Israeli-Palestinian peace agreement.

"President Abbas congratulates US president-elect Barack Obama in his name and in the name of the Palestinian people and hopes he will speed up efforts to achieve peace, particularly since a resolution of the Palestinian problem and the Israeli-Arab conflict is key to world peace," Nabil Abu Rudeina, Abbas's spokesman, said.

"President Abbas hopes the new administration will continue to make the peace efforts one of its top priorities."

Meanwhile, Hamas, which rules the Gaza Strip, urged Obama to learn from the "mistakes" of previous US administrations in dealing with the Muslim and Arab worlds.

"He must learn from the mistakes of the previous administrations, including that of Bush which has destroyed Afghanistan, Iraq, Lebanon and Palestine," said Fawzi Barhum, a Hamas spokesman.

"He must improve US ties with the rest of the world rather than wave the big American stick.

"We want him to support the Palestinian cause or at least not to be biased towards the Israeli occupation. We have no problem establishing normal relations with the United States to explain our just cause."

Ahmed Youssef, a Hamas senior political member, hailed the vote as historic.

"We [Hamas] do believe that if America's political equilibrium is to be restored, this political election should be the turning point.

We hope that Obama will address the Palestinian issue in a fair and honest way. The Palestinian question is the mother of all issues in the region it concerns 1.5 billion Muslims all over the world.

"During the political campaign in the US, people used a lot of rhetoric Obama said a lot of things to please the Jewish community, looking for their votes and money. We understand that. But all that rhetoric will be changed because looking at the list of Obama's advisers, I believe that they have a better understanding of the conflict in the region."

Israel





Israeli-US relations face "a bright future", Ygal Palmor, a spokesman for Israel's foreign ministry, said in reaction to Obama's election to the White House.

"Israelis congratulate the two great friends of Israel, John McCain for his great campaign, Barack Obama for his historic victory.

"We are certain that Israeli-American friendship faces a bright future."

Tzipi Livni, leader of the ruling Kadima party, recalled Obama's visit to Israel in July and said that "the people of Israel felt he [Obama] is a man who is deeply committed to Israel's security and peace".

"Israel hopes to pursue close strategic cooperation with the new administration and the new US president, and hopes to further tighten the unshakeable ties between our two countries," she said.

Iran





Iran's official news agency quoted a leading politician as saying that Obama's election win was a rejection of the policies of George Bush, the current US president.

"Obama's victory is... evidence that Bush's policies have failed," Gholam Ali Haddad Adel said, according to IRNA.

"Americans have no option but to change their policies to save themselves from the quagmire Bush has created for them."

The government daily newspaper Iran said in an editorial on Wednesday that McCain's failure to take the presidency lay with Bush.

"Defeat for the Republicans is the price they pay for Bush's strategic and tactical blunders," the newspaper said.

Mohammad Hasan Aboutorabi-Fard, Iran's deputy parliament speaker, called on Obama to make good on his promises to bring change.

"Obama is expected to learn from Bush's failed policies and correct America's wrong policies in the Middle East," IRNA quoted him as saying.

Syria




Mohsen Bilal, Syria's information minister, said on Wednesday that Damascus hopes Obama's election will lead to changes in US foreign policies in the Middle East and boost the prospect of regional peace.

Bilal said he hoped Obama's win "will help change US policy from one of wars and embargos to one of diplomacy and dialogue," the Syrian news agency SANA reported.

China





Hu Jintao, China's president, congratulated Obama on his victory in the US presidential poll, saying a closer relationship btween the two nations would be "for the benefit of Chinese and American people, and people around the world".

"In a new historical era, I look forward to ... taking our bilateral relationship of constructive co-operation to a new level," Hu said in a written message, according to a statement on the Chinese foreign ministry's website.

Wen Jiabao, China's prime minister, also congratulated Obama, while Xi Jinping, the vice-president, sent a message of congratulations to Joe Biden, Obama's running mate and America's next vice-president.

Britain





Gordon Brown, the UK's prime minister, congratulated Obama, hailing his "energising politics ... his progressive values and his vision for the future".

"I would like to offer my sincere congratulations to Barack Obama on winning the presidency of the United States," he said in a statement.

"The relationship between the United States and the United Kingdom is vital to our prosperity and security ... Barack Obama ran an inspirational campaign, energising politics with his progressive values and his vision for the future."

India





India's ruling Congress party hailed Obama's victory, saying his "youthful energy" was in tune with the energy of emerging India.

"Obama represents youthful energy, exuberant dynamism and a forward-looking progressive mindset which is also the spirit animating India," Abhishek Manu Singhvi, spokesman for India's Congress party, said.

France





Nicolas Sarkozy, the French president, congratulated Obama on a "brilliant victory".

"I give you my warmest congratulations and, through me, those of all French people," Sarkozy told the Democratic candidate in a letter made public by the French presidency.

"Your brilliant victory rewards a tireless commitment to serve the American people. It also crowns an exceptional campaign whose inspiration and exaltation have proved to the entire world the vitality of American democracy. By choosing you, the American people have chosen change, openness and optimism," he wrote.

"At a time when all of us must face huge challenges together, your election raises great hope in France, in Europe and elsewhere in the world."

The European Union





Jose Manuel Barroso, president of the European Comimission, applauded Obama's victory, with Barroso calling for a "new deal".

"This is a time for a renewed commitment between Europe and the United States of America," Barroso said in a statement. "We need to change the current crisis into a new opportunity. We need a new deal for a new world."

"I sincerely hope that with the leadership of President Obama, the United States of America will join forces with Europe to drive this new deal. For the benefit of our societies, for the benefit of the world."

South Africa





Kgalema Motlanthe, South Africa's president, congratulated Obama on his presidential victory, saying Africa "stood proud" and looked forward to a fruitful working relationship.

"Your election ... carries with it hope for millions of your countrymen and women as much as it is for millions of people of ... African descent both in the continent of Africa as well as those in the diaspora," he said.

Nelson Mandela, South Africa's first black leader, also congratualted Obama, saying that Obama's election as US president showed that anybody could dream to change the world.

"Your victory has demonstrated that no person anywhere in the world should not dare to dream of wanting to change the world for a better place," Mandela wrote in a letter to Obama.

The 90-year-old Mandela applauded Obama's commitment to support global peace and said he trusted that combatting poverty and disease would become the mission of Obama's presidency.

"We wish you strength and fortitude in the challenging days and years that lie ahead," said Mandela.

"We are sure you will ultimately achieve your dream [of] making the United States of America a full partner in a community of nations committed to peace and prosperity for all."

Sudan





Khartoum expressed hope that Obama's election win would mean "real change" for the country's strained relations with the US - America has branded Sundan as a "state sponsor of terrorism".

"The result of the election is a purely domestic affair, but certainly the United States, being the only big power in the world, it affects almost everything in other countries," said Ali al-Sadiq, a spokesman for Sudan's foreign ministry.

"We would hope that the slogan of president Obama - 'change' - would be reflected in the foreign policy in the United States, especially towards Sudan and oppressed countries, the Palestinians, the Iraqis and the Somalis.

"We would like to see some real change between Sudan and the United States."

Somalia





Abdullahi Yusuf Ahmed, the president of transitional Somali government, voiced hope that Obama would help end conflict in the world.

"I am congratulating Barack Obama for his election as the president of United States of America," Yusuf said in a statement released by his spokesman.

"I am hopeful that he will help end major crises in the world, particulary the endless conflict in my country Somalia. This was an historic election in which a proper leader was elected. This is a great moment for America and Africa."

Japan





Taro Aso, the Japanese prime minister, offered his "heartfelt congratulations" to Obama, pledging to work with the new leader to strengthen relations.

"I would like to extend my heartfelt congratulations to Senator Obama on his election as President of United States of America," Aso said in a statement.

"I will strive to further strengthen the Japan-US alliance and to resolve various challenges the international community faces when addressing issues such as the international economy, terrorism and the environment."

The Philippines





Gloria Arroyo, the Philippines' president, congratulated Barack Obama for winning the US presidential election.

"We wish to express our profound congratulations to President-elect Barack Obama for his historical and stellar win as the 44th president of the United States," Lorelei Fajardo, a spokesman for Arroyo, said in a statement.

"His call for change opened a new phase in American politics, sparking hope and inspiration not only for the American people but the citizens of the world.

"America has always been the bastion of democracy and the world has always looked to the USA for direction. Obama has promised change and the American people and the world await these changes. We look forward to greater co-operation between the USA and the Philippines, the Democrats have always been good allies."

Australia





Kevin Rudd, the Australian prime minister, praised Obama's victory saying it was a testament to the strength of the US democratic system and was a message of hope not just for the United States but for the whole world.

"Twenty-five years ago Martin Luther King [the US civil right activist] had a dream of an America where men and women would be judged not on the colour of their skin but on the content of their character," Rudd told said.

"Today what America has done is turn that dream into a reality. A world which is in many respects fearful for its future."

Source
Interesting and informative stuff. Thanks, Dave.

Greg
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post #4 of 39 Old Nov 5th, 2008, 2:17 pm
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Re: First blood... sitting down unconditionally

Dave Dragon, nice post -- interesting and informative. Thanks.

Greg
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post #5 of 39 Old Nov 5th, 2008, 2:19 pm
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Re: First blood... sitting down unconditionally

Quote:
Originally Posted by cfell
Russia, China and Iran, to name only 3, have set the confrontational stage, just as they did during the Clinton admin.

Russia has sent a message.

China has sent a message.

Iran has sent a message.

.... and the stock market is having fun.
I guess I'm not sure what your point is. Would you mind spelling it out?

Greg
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post #6 of 39 Old Nov 5th, 2008, 3:45 pm Thread Starter
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Re: First blood... sitting down unconditionally

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveDragon
Reads like more of the same fear mongering. jm2cw
Dave,
No fear in my post or heart.

There were specific threats delivered by those governments.

The President Elect will handle it, I'm told. So, in support of our P.E. and resting in that wisdom, you don't need to fear either.

I figured the folks here would realize it hasn't been 6 months as V.P.E. promised...it was, something like 6 hours.

...............
J.M.J...
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post #7 of 39 Old Nov 5th, 2008, 4:18 pm
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Re: First blood... sitting down unconditionally

Channing, I don't get the stock market comment. Nothing has changed. The headwinds are still there. Your comment seems simply an effort at trying to instill more fear. That's really old school "my friend". McCain lost, get over it.

Schizophrenia rules the markets. Today's move was nothing more than profit taking on yesterday's "feel good" rally.

For what it's worth, stocks have actually done better under Democrats:

From CNN/Money:

Plenty of Wall Streeters are Republicans. The party's policies are seen as better for big business and therefore better for the stock market. "Democrats are seen as being pro-regulatory, and more willing to enact laws against Wall Street and laws against CEOs," said Don Luskin, chief investment officer at Trend Macrolytics.

But here's Wall Street's strange little irony -- studies show the stock market performs better and tends to be less volatile when Democrats are in power.

This discrepancy was explored recently in a study by two finance professors at the University of California at Los Angeles, Pedro Santa-Clara and Rossen Valkanov.

According to their paper, entitled, "The Presidential Puzzle: Political Cycles and the Stock Market" and published in the October issue of the Journal of Finance, stock market returns are on average about 5 percent higher when the White House is run by a Democrat than during Republican rule.




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post #8 of 39 Old Nov 5th, 2008, 4:22 pm
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Re: First blood... sitting down unconditionally

Quote:
Originally Posted by cfell
Dave,
No fear in my post or heart.

There were specific threats delivered by those governments.

The President Elect will handle it, I'm told. So, in support of our P.E. and resting in that wisdom, you don't need to fear either.

I figured the folks here would realize it hasn't been 6 months as V.P.E. promised...it was, something like 6 hours.
I get the feeling you're hoping he'll fail.
Just one question, was 911 a test for Geroge Bush, the neo con Republican? Or was that just bad timing?
no one, least of all Obama, is unaware of the dire situations and severe challenges that exist in our world today, thanks in some measure to George Bush and his gang. We better all hope Obama handles them well because all of our butts are on the line. And, if we can't join in our sincere hope for his success, at least kindly wait more than 24 hours before you start boarding the well populated train filled with folks who genuinely hope he will fail.

Greg
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post #9 of 39 Old Nov 5th, 2008, 4:33 pm
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Re: First blood... sitting down unconditionally

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpolakow
I get the feeling you're hoping he'll fail.
Just one question, was 911 a test for Geroge Bush, the neo con Republican? Or was that just bad timing?
no one, least of all Obama, is unaware of the dire situations and severe challenges that exist in our world today, thanks in some measure to George Bush and his gang. We better all hope Obama handles them well because all of our butts are on the line. And, if we can't join in our sincere hope for his success, at least kindly wait more than 24 hours before you start boarding the well populated train filled with folks who genuinely hope he will fail.
I was genuinely appalled at the poor sportsmanship McCain's supporters exhibited last night when they started booing after McCain offered Obama his congratulations. You could tell McCain was clearly embarrassed and exasperated by the look on his face. What a glaring lack of class.


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post #10 of 39 Old Nov 5th, 2008, 4:47 pm
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Re: First blood... sitting down unconditionally

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpolakow
I get the feeling you're hoping he'll fail.
And, if we can't join in our sincere hope for his success, at least kindly wait more than 24 hours before you start boarding the well populated train filled with folks who genuinely hope he will fail.
Yeah, the liberals\democrats were soooooooooo conciliatory towards Bush, both times. As they are to this day.

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post #11 of 39 Old Nov 5th, 2008, 10:50 pm Thread Starter
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Re: First blood... sitting down unconditionally

Guys... where our President goes, we go as a country.

...............
J.M.J...
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post #12 of 39 Old Nov 6th, 2008, 1:28 am
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First blood... sitting down unconditionally

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveDragon
Reads like more of the same fear mongering.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonKMiller
....Your comment seems simply an effort at trying to instill more fear....
Fear cannot be instilled/mongered. A man already has fear (dark) in his heart--or not.

Perhaps a commentary on our foreign policy, of recent? Will we EVER stop coddling terrorists? If we're gonna play war, will we EVER kill people and break things?

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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Re: First blood... sitting down unconditionally

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt
Yeah, the liberals\democrats were soooooooooo conciliatory towards Bush, both times. As they are to this day.
Yep, and with Bush's approval rating the worst of any President in history, it seems like the rest of America finally figured out that they were right all along.

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post #14 of 39 Old Nov 6th, 2008, 3:18 am
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Re: First blood... sitting down unconditionally

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Yep, and with Bush's approval rating the worst of any President in history....
AND with said approval rating: what a PERFECT time to take a stand on ONE TRILLION DOLLARS of pork! Oh well, so much for FAKE conservatives.

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #15 of 39 Old Nov 6th, 2008, 10:46 am
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Re: First blood... sitting down unconditionally

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayjacobson
Fear cannot be instilled/mongered. A man already has fear (dark) in his heart--or not.

Perhaps a commentary on our foreign policy, of recent? Will we EVER stop coddling terrorists? If we're gonna play war, will we EVER kill people and break things?
I agree, Jay, that fear cannot be instilled, but it can definitely be mongered.

Greg
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post #16 of 39 Old Nov 6th, 2008, 11:11 am
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Re: First blood... sitting down unconditionally

At least Bush's approval rating is higher than the Congress and Senate.

To much Bush bashing. When he is gone let History decide the out come. It is always Bush's fault. Oh I remember when Slick Willie was in office everything was his fault. Blah Blah Blah,

Go Obama now it is your turn. Change is what we will get or so his slogan says.
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post #17 of 39 Old Nov 6th, 2008, 11:25 am
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Re: First blood... sitting down unconditionally

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt
Yeah, the liberals\democrats were soooooooooo conciliatory towards Bush, both times. As they are to this day.
You're right, Matt. It's hard not to want someone you don't like very much to fail miserably. It is a shortcoming we all have. It's the small side of our personality, the petty side. Hope we can all get over it.

Greg
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post #18 of 39 Old Nov 6th, 2008, 1:40 pm
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Re: First blood... sitting down unconditionally

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
Yep, and with Bush's approval rating the worst of any President in history, it seems like the rest of America finally figured out that they were right all along.

Not True. Truman's approval ratings were lower and he is seen much more favorably now than when he was president. I don't like Bush either but I'm sure for entirely different reasons than you. I'm just saying that in 50 years the perspective will be different.

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post #19 of 39 Old Nov 6th, 2008, 2:13 pm
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Re: First blood... sitting down unconditionally

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevincook
What's that cut and paste rule?

Kevin
There is no cut and paste rule. We may delete posts if they are a cut and paste of of mass emails that circulate, because that would amount to spamming our forums. I made the mistake of trying in several different ways to try to keep the political discussion to a dull roar - hopefully keeping it from overwhelming this community. After polling our membership it was clear that the majority of people (who bothered to respond to the poll) wanted us to allow any and all political posts, as long as they comply with our stated guidelines. We deferred to that position and have left them alone since.

Dave is just sharing a compilation of views published by Al Jazeera. It is an interesting read and I thank him for sharing it.

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post #20 of 39 Old Nov 6th, 2008, 2:33 pm
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Re: First blood... sitting down unconditionally

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There is no cut and paste rule. We may delete posts if they are a cut and paste of of mass emails that circulate, because that would amount to spamming our forums. I made the mistake of trying in several different ways to try to keep the political discussion to a dull roar - hopefully keeping it from overwhelming this community. After polling our membership it was clear that the majority of people (who bothered to respond to the poll) wanted us to allow any and all political posts, as long as they comply with our stated guidelines. We deferred to that position and have left them alone since.

Dave is just sharing a compilation of views published by Al Jazeera. It is an interesting read and I thank him for sharing it.
#1 Sep 29th, 2008, 12:41 pm
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post #21 of 39 Old Nov 7th, 2008, 12:24 am
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Re: First blood... sitting down unconditionally

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I agree, Jay, that fear cannot be instilled, but it can definitely be mongered.
OK Greg, I'll give you ATTEMPTED mongering. But, like I always say, if the shoe fits, Cinderfella....

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #22 of 39 Old Nov 7th, 2008, 12:36 am
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Re: First blood... sitting down unconditionally

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Yep, and with Bush's approval rating the worst of any President in history, it seems like the rest of America finally figured out that they were right all along.
And this excuses their past behavior, right? "Do as I say, NOT as I do"?
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post #23 of 39 Old Nov 7th, 2008, 6:10 am
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Re: First blood... sitting down unconditionally

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I get the feeling you're hoping he'll fail.
Just one question, was 911 a test for Geroge Bush, the neo con Republican? Or was that just bad timing?
no one, least of all Obama, is unaware of the dire situations and severe challenges that exist in our world today, thanks in some measure to George Bush and his gang. We better all hope Obama handles them well because all of our butts are on the line. And, if we can't join in our sincere hope for his success, at least kindly wait more than 24 hours before you start boarding the well populated train filled with folks who genuinely hope he will fail.
Geroge?? You mean George, as in George Bush? You can't blame the Prez for ALL of the US' woes!

9-11, test for George Bush?? You got to be kidding, right?

You are right, Republican or Democrat, our butts ARE on the line. If the Prez-Elect does what the lefties want to do, we will have a repeat of 9-11.

All nonsense aside, let's all hope and pray that the new Prez will do a good job for our Country.

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post #24 of 39 Old Nov 7th, 2008, 6:19 am
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Re: First blood... sitting down unconditionally

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Originally Posted by spokane1200lt
To much Bush bashing. When he is gone let History decide the out come. It is always Bush's fault.
You mean you'd like us to wait before we decide if the world is a better or safer place as a result of Bush's presidency? Not a chance. The man was an idiot, is an idiot, will always be an idiot. How's that for a history lesson?
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post #25 of 39 Old Nov 7th, 2008, 6:45 am
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Re: First blood... sitting down unconditionally

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Originally Posted by pkpr1998
Geroge?? You mean George, as in George Bush? You can't blame the Prez for ALL of the US' woes!

9-11, test for George Bush?? You got to be kidding, right?

You are right, Republican or Democrat, our butts ARE on the line. If the Prez-Elect does what the lefties want to do, we will have a repeat of 9-11.

All nonsense aside, let's all hope and pray that the new Prez will do a good job for our Country.
Nope, I wasn't kidding. Was 911 a test for George Bush?

Greg
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post #26 of 39 Old Nov 7th, 2008, 9:32 am
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Re: First blood... sitting down unconditionally

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Originally Posted by gpolakow
Nope, I wasn't kidding. Was 911 a test for George Bush?
There was tons of evidence in the news...you may have seen some of it. That plan was in the making for years before that election season even started, let alone after W got elected. So...no.

Yes, I said it, he got elected.

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post #27 of 39 Old Nov 7th, 2008, 9:58 am
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Re: First blood... sitting down unconditionally

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There was tons of evidence in the news...you may have seen some of it. That plan was in the making for years before that election season even started, let alone after W got elected. So...no.

Yes, I said it, he got elected.
Interesting, you'd think with so much evidence we might have been a bit more prepared for it. No doubt it was in the planning for years, but the time chosen to execute that plan was in Bush's first few months of office. Hey, maybe it was a coincidence. Don't really know. Just wondering.

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post #28 of 39 Old Nov 7th, 2008, 10:18 am
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Re: First blood... sitting down unconditionally

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpolakow
Interesting, you'd think with so much evidence we might have been a bit more prepared for it. No doubt it was in the planning for years, but the time chosen to execute that plan was in Bush's first few months of office. Hey, maybe it was a coincidence. Don't really know. Just wondering.
Hindsight is 20/20 isn't it? The pieces were much easier to put together after the attack. First WTC attack 1 month after Clinton took office...2nd attack 8 months after W took office. Does make you wonder, doesn't it...

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post #29 of 39 Old Nov 7th, 2008, 10:38 am
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Re: First blood... sitting down unconditionally

Can we please step back from political issues for a little bit?

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post #30 of 39 Old Nov 7th, 2008, 10:57 am
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Re: First blood... sitting down unconditionally

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Can we please step back from political (and religious) issues for a little bit?
+1
I second that thought (with the addition)! Thanks Randy. Appreciate your thoughts.

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post #31 of 39 Old Nov 7th, 2008, 11:51 am
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Re: First blood... sitting down unconditionally

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Originally Posted by Randy
Can we please step back from political issues for a little bit?
By "we" do you mean everyone should step back from political issues, collectively?

All for one and one for all. Isn't that socialism?
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post #32 of 39 Old Nov 7th, 2008, 12:13 pm
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Re: First blood... sitting down unconditionally

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Originally Posted by GeoffCee
You mean you'd like us to wait before we decide if the world is a better or safer place as a result of Bush's presidency? Not a chance. The man was an idiot, is an idiot, will always be an idiot. How's that for a history lesson?
Emotional knee-jerking aside, the answer is: we don't know! We'll need 20 years, probably, to assess that. Many said the same of Ronald Reagan, during his presidency. But, a few years later, when you saw that Berlin wall falling, and communism imploding....

Many said Slick Willie was an idiot, etc. But, overall, times were pretty damn good. That's the history--lessons to yet unfold.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpolakow
Interesting, you'd think with so much evidence we might have been a bit more prepared for it. No doubt it was in the planning for years....
Not a chance, Greg. Huge, bloated, disjointed big government "intelligence" (using that word very loosely) agencies just don't work like that. Seeing how well our big government agencies worked: what did we do? We created ANOTHER huge boondoggle big government agency, know as "Homeland Security." Lessons NOT learned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoog62
Hindsight is 20/20 isn't it?....
In light of the creation of Homeland Security, it would appear hindsight is flat blind!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #33 of 39 Old Nov 7th, 2008, 12:19 pm
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Re: First blood... sitting down unconditionally

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffCee
By "we" do you mean everyone should step back from political issues, collectively?
Yes, it would be nice for all of us to give it a break for a little while.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffCee
All for one and one for all. Isn't that socialism?
No, this is a benevolent dictatorship

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post #34 of 39 Old Nov 7th, 2008, 12:35 pm
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Re: First blood... sitting down unconditionally

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....No, this is a benevolent dictatorship
So is Cuber (Cuba)!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #35 of 39 Old Nov 8th, 2008, 4:50 am
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Re: First blood... sitting down unconditionally

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No, this is a benevolent dictatorship
Love the concept. Excuse me for asking, but will I be experiencing the benevolent part any time soon?
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post #36 of 39 Old Nov 8th, 2008, 5:15 pm
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Re: First blood... sitting down unconditionally

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Love the concept. Excuse me for asking, but will I be experiencing the benevolent part any time soon?
Sure will--bend over!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #37 of 39 Old Oct 10th, 2012, 10:05 pm
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Re: First blood... sitting down unconditionally

Happened upon this old post/thread. It's that time -- to ask the reflective question of "Are we there yet? Did we make it?" To Obama's promises (round #1) and the "support" of world leaders (where DID they go?)? I think I already have my answer.


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Re: First blood... sitting down unconditionally

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Originally Posted by CharlesSnyder
Happened upon this old post/thread. It's that time -- to ask the reflective question of "Are we there yet? Did we make it?" To Obama's promises (round #1) and the "support" of world leaders (where DID they go?)? I think I already have my answer.
Many are waiting for a two party system to evolve. Two right wing sames do not qualify as a political choice.
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post #39 of 39 Old Oct 11th, 2012, 6:17 am
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Re: First blood... sitting down unconditionally

The source of the post . .

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2008/11/20081155293464248.html

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