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post #1 of 40 Old Oct 20th, 2008, 8:29 am Thread Starter
 
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Post How to Ruin the U.S. Economy

I think Ben Stein pretty much nails it right on the head...


1) Have a fiscal policy that creates immense deficits in good times and bad, burdening America's posterity with staggering burdens of repaying the debt.
2) Eliminate regulation of Wall Street and/or fail to enforce the regulations that already exist, instead trusting Wall Street and other money managers and speculators to manage other people's money with few or no regulations and little oversight.

3) Have an energy policy that disallows producing our own energy and instead requires that we buy energy from abroad, thus making our oil prices highly volatile and creating large balance of payments deficits, lowering the value of the dollar and thus making the problem get progressively worse.

4) Have Congress mandate that banks and other financial entities lend money to persons they know in advance to have poor credit ratings or none at all.

5) Allow investment banks, insurers, and banks to bet their entire net worth and then some on the premise that borrowers known to be improvident will in fact repay those loans.

6) Allow the creation of large betting pools called "hedge funds" that can move markets and control the outcome of trading, thus taking a forum for savings and retirement for families and making it into a rigged casino game that exists primarily to fleece suckers like ordinary working men and women.

7) Have laws that protect corporate officers from being sued for misconduct but at the same time punish lawyers in the private sector who ferret out such misconduct and try to make accountable the people responsible for shareholder and investor losses. If one of those lawyers gets particularly aggressive in protecting stockholders, put him in prison.

8) Appoint as head of the United States Treasury Department a man whose whole life was spent on Wall Street, who became fantastically rich through his peddling of junk bonds at his firm while the firm later sold short those same sorts of bonds.

9) Scare Americans into putting up $750 billion of their hard earned money to bail out the billionaires and their friends who created the market for loans to poor credit risks (The "subprime" market) and the unbelievably large side bets on those loans, promising that such a bailout would save the retirement savings of Americans, then allow the immense hedge funds to make the market crater immediately afterwards.

10) Propose to save the situation by surtaxing the oil industry, which is owned by our fellow Americans, mostly in their retirement plans, thus penalizing Americans for investing in companies that efficiently and legally produce an indispensable product.

11) Insist that the free market requires that banks and insurers with friends of the Secretary of the Treasury be saved but allow other entities not so fortunate to fail, thus creating total uncertainty and terror among financial institutions, and demolishing all of the confidence built up in financial circles since the days of FDR.

12) Then have the Republican candidate say he would keep on the job the Treasury Secretary who facilitated the crisis, failed to protect the nation from the crisis, got the taxpayers to pony up to save his Wall Street buddies, and have the Democratic candidate, as noted, say he would save the day by taxing the stockholders of energy companies.

There, that should do it.


The above is from this Yahoo page.
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post #2 of 40 Old Oct 20th, 2008, 8:46 am
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Re: How to Ruin the U.S. Economy

Realise that he is calling out both the Republicans and Democrats there. Neither the right or the left can claim the high ground in this mess. The problem has never been really between the right and left, it has always been about the rich vs. the poor.

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post #3 of 40 Old Oct 20th, 2008, 9:41 am
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Re: How to Ruin the U.S. Economy

Amen, Dave!!! Anyone who thinks the Democrats or Republicans will, or even intend to fix this are deluding themselves. The trouble is too many partisans not enough Americans in political office. This is career politics, make promises you don't intend to keep, line your pockets and those of your buddies/owners, and rob those you swore to serve. No one is clean.

Yikes! I sound jaded.

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post #4 of 40 Old Oct 20th, 2008, 9:41 am
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Re: How to Ruin the U.S. Economy

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoog62
Realise that he is calling out both the Republicans and Democrats there. Neither the right or the left can claim the high ground in this mess. The problem has never been really between the right and left, it has always been about the rich vs. the poor.
actually you have part of that correct, the rich and poor thing has had little to do with it with it though, except for the what 20% of the loan program failures.

and we can thank the left for the current crisis with so many bad mortgage programs, heck the last forced mortgage programs were hammered in stone with Clinton in '94, who has said he knew then it was going to cause problems, BTW when was it the banking industry was first told they had to loosen their requirements for less fortunate to be able to buy homes? the late 70's wasn't it?

It was the banking industry that knew the 20 /28 40 rule was a good scenario for a home buyer.

20% of the purchase price down, leaving a nice equity buffer in the house should the buyer fail, allowing the banks have a better chance of not loosing so much money.

A mortgage payment not to exceed 28% of their monthly income, leaving the home owner with a nice amount of left over cash to buy groceries, do home repairs, car repairs, pay for medical bills ect.ect.

not to exceed 40% total debt of their monthly income to qualify for the mortgage including all bills

fact was, at one time it was less than that,
and I had been told not to purchase a home at a cost of more than two years of your Gross salary (which we have still not done to this day),

thing is greed took over, or keeping up with the Jones, even with middle income bracket or the rich as the left want those that make under 42k a year to think,

then the dang blasted financing options that took the public with lightning speed, coupled with people who,

a) just wanted a bigger house to show off, (hey we make 100k a year, look how we can afford that 350-500k dollar home)

b) the people that never took even 10 minutes of their own time to do some research and learn about home purchases in the 1st place

c) uneducated poor being taken advantage of buy some realtors

d)the people that had some expendable income and thought they could make it rich in 6 moth's in the real estate market and financed their homes at 125 % of the value with 3, 5 year arm's or interest only loans banking they could sell that house at a high profit


I particularly love all the blame it on the banks and lenders, when in reality many of these banks are forced to provide mortgage money to those who can not afford to purchase a home in the first place.

what happened to the people being responsible for their own actions???????

Oh yea, the left..... not to worry you dumb people we will bail you out! and this will prove to you you need MORE government control!

and this time they even got what 40% of the right to agree?

Bwhahahahahahaha


Our Gov at work for you!

(some humor intended)

Tom

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post #5 of 40 Old Oct 20th, 2008, 10:00 am
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Re: How to Ruin the U.S. Economy

Careful..... this political thread is a cut and paste job and subject to deletion by the mods.

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post #6 of 40 Old Oct 20th, 2008, 10:03 am
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Re: How to Ruin the U.S. Economy

Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
Randy asked nicely in this thread, and most of you have ignored his challenge for positive political comments. SHAME on you!!! Haven't you all said enough already?!

And this is coming from messenger13 . . . the most obnoxious of the lot. That should speak volumes of how annoying this forum is getting with these political threads!
SHUT UP!!! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!
Wow, was that really only three weeks ago? Then again, "As for bmwlt.com, perhaps it's time I let my money do the talking" was only 5 months ago. I guess this does prove that nothing is permanent and even the most self-righteous of us can recover from almost any scenario. So thanks, Joe, for bringing us all hope in these difficult times. I guess faith is all that you really need after all.

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post #7 of 40 Old Oct 20th, 2008, 10:23 am
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Re: How to Ruin the U.S. Economy

Think bigger picture Tom. Sub-prime lending is merely a symptom, not the disease.

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post #8 of 40 Old Oct 20th, 2008, 10:57 am
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Re: How to Ruin the U.S. Economy

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoog62
Think bigger picture Tom. Sub-prime lending is merely a symptom, not the disease.

oh I see the bigger picture, and agree with ya.

The above shows a package of it combined. sure turned into a mess of things and many in the banking industry knew it years and years ago.

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post #9 of 40 Old Oct 20th, 2008, 11:38 am
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Re: How to Ruin the U.S. Economy

This apparently is one way; Hungarian born multi-billionaire George Soros funds “The Open Society Institute” which proposes a borderless North America. He advocates for complete destruction of the United States Constitution and U.S. sovereignty. Worth over $9 billion, he backs up his plans with ample money.

For more information, google: NewsWithViews dot com.
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post #10 of 40 Old Oct 20th, 2008, 2:55 pm Thread Starter
 
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Re: How to Ruin the U.S. Economy

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
Wow, was that really only three weeks ago?
I don't find this commentary by Mr. Stein to be a political statement at all. I think Mr. Hoogerland said it best when he responded with "Realise that he is calling out both the Republicans and Democrats there. Neither the right or the left can claim the high ground in this mess.". AMEN!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
Then again, "As for bmwlt.com, perhaps it's time I let my money do the talking" was only 5 months ago. I guess this does prove that nothing is permanent and even the most self-righteous of us can recover from almost any scenario.
You (and most others) really did miss the boat entirely regarding that thread, didn't you? Re-read it and try (hard as it may) to understand what I meant ... and still mean. If you are still confused, PM me and I will explain. It's really not hard if you simply read the words at face-value, and STOP trying to interpret what I am trying to say. Just read the words.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
So thanks, Joe, for bringing us all hope in these difficult times. I guess faith is all that you really need after all.
If I bring forth hope ... then AWESOME!

But faith is all I need Ken . Well ... Faith, Hope, and Love. What says you Mr. Meese? I guess TIME is probably on the top of your list. After all, everything and anything can be corrected if given enough of that.
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post #11 of 40 Old Oct 20th, 2008, 6:57 pm
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Re: How to Ruin the U.S. Economy

Quote:
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Careful..... this political thread is a cut and paste job and subject to deletion by the mods.
Apparently, I'm not the only one who thinks this is political, never mind all the references to the Blue & Red and those damn lefties.

So tell me, Joe, what exactly did you mean way back then? That you can't "support" this site because you disagree with some folks, or felt slighted or oppressed? So basically, you're gonna post where and when you like, but just not bother with any more cash donations? Well, I guess that makes it alright then.

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post #12 of 40 Old Oct 20th, 2008, 9:46 pm
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Re: How to Ruin the U.S. Economy

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
....I guess this does prove that nothing is permanent and even the most self-righteous of us can recover from almost any scenario....
The proverbial pot calling old mister kettle, Black?

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #13 of 40 Old Oct 20th, 2008, 9:57 pm Thread Starter
 
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Re: How to Ruin the U.S. Economy

Quote:
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So tell me, Joe, what exactly did you mean way back then? That you can't "support" this site because you disagree with some folks, or felt slighted or oppressed? So basically, you're gonna post where and when you like, but just not bother with any more cash donations? Well, I guess that makes it alright then.
The last time I checked, my yearly subscription was still active. Come Jan 23rd, 2009 ... I guess I'll have to log off and decide where I'm going to spend my money.

Funny though ... since that thread, there has been a HUGE decline in Christian and/or Bible-bashing threads in here. I hope (and pray fro my fellow brethren) that I had a little something to do with that.

Ken, you know that I have never been one to get involved in threads focused on religion, beliefs, and even politics. But there has to be balance. And I felt, at that time, that this place was WAY out-of-line. Especially from one of the mods (Mr. Dragon). What really confused me so much is that I thought I knew Dave. We've spent quite a bit of time together. We have ridden quite a bit together. But ... people change. And ... times change. I know that 2009 is going to be a VERY interesting year for one messenger13. I'm looking forward to it.

Maybe Obama's right about one thing. Maybe I do need . . . "change".
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post #14 of 40 Old Oct 20th, 2008, 11:53 pm
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Re: How to Ruin the U.S. Economy

I never knew that the Sec of the Treasury developed and implement regulations!

All of these years, I thought Congress passed Legislation riddled with self serving Pork and self serving riders--they'd load up any necessary legislation pushing it to the limit of the President vetoing it because the bribes in it were just to INSANE to stomach.

For me, the issue is who is the least corrupt--not the incumbent.

Like Nancy Regan said. "Just vote NO to corruption".

Bob

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post #15 of 40 Old Oct 21st, 2008, 1:35 am
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Re: How to Ruin the U.S. Economy

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....I know that 2009 is going to be a VERY interesting year for one messenger13. I'm looking forward to it....
Me too, Joe. This year was a bumpy ride. I'm looking to a brighter 2009.

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #16 of 40 Old Oct 21st, 2008, 6:59 am
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Re: How to Ruin the U.S. Economy

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
Apparently, I'm not the only one who thinks this is political, never mind all the references to the Blue & Red and those damn lefties.
you are on the left coast..... whad' ya expect

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post #17 of 40 Old Oct 21st, 2008, 8:34 am
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Re: How to Ruin the U.S. Economy

Wow, am I confused. Can't figure out who is arguing for what here. I feel like I've come into the middle of a very old disagreement. At any rate, somehow, despite the appearance of willing to blame both left and right for the crisis, I got a definite feeling that most people blame it more on the left. Personally, I have no idea who is to blame other than our government who for eons has paid far more attention to the needs and desires of the special interest groups than to the needs and desires of the American people as a whole. But I do think that the bailout was a greater boon to the Wall Street elite who I would bet are mostly conservatives, than to the average guy in the street. But maybe I'm wrong and maybe those wall street billionaires are all well camaflauged leftists...they're everywhere. One thing for sure, our good folks in Washington have dug a hole for us all and the finger pointing about who is responsible will go on forever. Just remember, folks, for the most part our congress and even our president our members of a pretty exclusive private club whose members take care of themselves before they take care of any of us. All you have to do is watch their actions to see the truth of this.

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post #18 of 40 Old Oct 21st, 2008, 8:46 am
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Re: How to Ruin the U.S. Economy

'Tis true Greg...averice knows no political affiliation.

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post #19 of 40 Old Oct 21st, 2008, 9:28 am
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Re: How to Ruin the U.S. Economy

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpolakow
Wow, am I confused. Can't figure out who is arguing for what here. I feel like I've come into the middle of a very old disagreement. At any rate, somehow, despite the appearance of willing to blame both left and right for the crisis, I got a definite feeling that most people blame it more on the left. Personally, I have no idea who is to blame other than our government who for eons has paid far more attention to the needs and desires of the special interest groups than to the needs and desires of the American people as a whole. But I do think that the bailout was a greater boon to the Wall Street elite who I would bet are mostly conservatives, than to the average guy in the street. But maybe I'm wrong and maybe those wall street billionaires are all well camaflauged leftists...they're everywhere. One thing for sure, our good folks in Washington have dug a hole for us all and the finger pointing about who is responsible will go on forever. Just remember, folks, for the most part our congress and even our president our members of a pretty exclusive private club whose members take care of themselves before they take care of any of us. All you have to do is watch their actions to see the truth of this.
Greg, here is my .02
This bailout was purely a left wing financial agreement for the rich, plain and simple, it was/is a hoax that it will save millions of peoples homes, when they do things like add spending into a mortgage crisis bailout to help more with out of country rum, toys, race tracks surely shows the left is out of their mind and those on the right who agreed as well.

If your looking for blame or who is responsible for this particular bailout caused mostly by mortgage failures and housing sales?

Look at no one else but the people, not the Gov.
The ones who signed that dotted line saying they would pay for that house, they are the ones responsible for their actions, responsible for taking on loans that could get them in trouble.

Yes, the left did push the forcing of the banking industry to loosen the requirements for the less than fortunate ones who could not come up with 20% down, or did not have perfect credit, or who's income was was so small that a mortgage was eating up 60 % of their income, so it can be said there is blame there as well. Do some research on it sometime, it will shock the daylights out of ya how far back this really started, back in the mid or late 70's in fact

Still - The bottom line is, the person/s that signed that dotted line are the ones who are responsible for this mess.

now, for my political view which surrounds all this crap
.
One party having control over so much..... we need to be sure to level the playing field, if at any time this election time is very important, it's not just about who is running for president, it's everyone they will put in office as well!

We need balance!

One party with too much power will do far more harm than we can imagine, particularly when that party is known for more spending, removing of rights and handouts (some of the things that have caused us to be in the spot were are in today)

yes, I'd like to see far more conservative views in power, of course. I'd like to see far less handouts particularly with welfare and foreign aid, but we know that many won't think that way, there fore we need the checks and balance with our elected officials. I'd really like to see the parties eliminated and just vote for the person instead of which side they are on.

(No I'm not anti-left just anti Obama, I'm so close to the middle it's scary)

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post #20 of 40 Old Oct 21st, 2008, 10:14 am
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Re: How to Ruin the U.S. Economy

The over-leveraged investment houses are closer to the root cause than the sub-prime default rate. You can't even start a conversation on personal responsibility without including the investment banks (the real people who run them) who promoted the risk, and then hid it in complicated "mortgage backed instruments".

Rich vs. poor, not left vs. right. The fat cats will tell you "if those folks would have just paid their mortgages ....", don't believe it. Eventually that portion of the system would have collapsed; it was just a matter of when. There were many banks that didn't buy into this scam. For their trouble, the .gov came in and "acquired" a stake in their businesses anyway. WTF?

I'll say it again, sub-prime was a symptom, not the disease.

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post #21 of 40 Old Oct 21st, 2008, 10:40 am
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Re: How to Ruin the U.S. Economy

Anybody watch 60 Minutes Sunday night? They had the VP or a very high up from Bank of America. That was a very interesting interview. Talked about a lot of their banking strategies and how they beat Wall Street. Also on how some big banks got 25 billion from the Govt. and that Bank of America didn't really need it, but they took it anyway.

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post #22 of 40 Old Oct 21st, 2008, 10:54 am
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Re: How to Ruin the U.S. Economy

Wells Fargo didn't want it either, but the .gov said they wouldn't consider WF for any sort of bailout or preferential treatment in the future if they didn't take the "help" now. Again, WTF?

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post #23 of 40 Old Oct 21st, 2008, 11:00 am
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Re: How to Ruin the U.S. Economy

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmgs
One party having control over so much..... we need to be sure to level the playing field, if at any time this election time is very important, it's not just about who is running for president, it's everyone they will put in office as well!

We need balance!
Agreed. But the simple fact is that the right has had more power and influence over the last decade or so, and they just simply took things too far. So now the pendulum will simply swing to the left for a while. If they can keep things reasonable, they may be able to pull off two terms before the people get so fed up that they vote the other way again. But somehow I doubt it. And yes, the two party system in itself is part of the checks and balances system. Having either power control both the White House and Congress is never good, no matter what color you happen to prefer. At least the Supreme Court Justices are appointed for life, so they don't see nearly as much swinging back and forth.

However, I do agree that overriding all the party politics is the simple fact that a politician's primary focus is taking care of himself first, by taking care of whatever special interests feed him the most cash and benefits. Our founding fathers knew that the entire system breeds corruption, so all they could do was to try and limit that corruption as as they could foresee it. But that was 200 years ago, and I'm sure the sheer size of our current government would astound any of them.

In the mean time, us little people simply try to make our way the best that we can, and to not get too caught up in the roller coaster ride constantly being thrust upon us.

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post #24 of 40 Old Oct 21st, 2008, 11:06 am
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Re: How to Ruin the U.S. Economy

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoog62
The over-leveraged investment houses are closer to the root cause than the sub-prime default rate. You can't even start a conversation on personal responsibility without including the investment banks (the real people who run them) who promoted the risk, and then hid it in complicated "mortgage backed instruments".

Rich vs. poor, not left vs. right. The fat cats will tell you "if those folks would have just paid their mortgages ....", don't believe it. Eventually that portion of the system
wow, the people taking that mortgage would had done 5 minutes of research to see if they could afford that mortgage when the rates change, or market falls and they cant sell, this would had never happened!

it is personal responsibility!

it boils down to the people who signed that dotted line, why anyone wants to blame anyone else is beyond me.

They had a choice just like My wife and I did on our last purchase, (2.5 years ago)

buy something they could afford, or buy something they they could loose, hell we could had taken a low interest loan on a arm and easily afforded a home 3 times what we have, until the rates went up!! or until it came time to pay the balloon and hope the interest rates were still low.

Can you say gambling?
Gambling on a expensive purchase you can't back up with cash is just flat stupid, and these that did this deserved to loose their homes, the banks that did these loans deserved to go out of business, the stock holders that had money tied up in these institutes deserved to loose their stock money as well for not paying attention to what their investments risks were!

it ain't rich vs poor, it is the peoples faults period

rich or poor, again it can be blamed more on the left than anywhere because of the forced requirements (about 20% of the mortgage crisis) and the left bailing out the dumb banking institutes that did the 100+% loans to people who on any change in payment could loose the home, 60% home loan to income ratios? what were they thinking?!?!

still the left did cause some of this with the lending to poor requirements.

you are right about one thing, it was going to happen, and there was no stopping it, that was said back in the late 70's agian in the 90's when the republicans were questoining the fannie mae crap and what;s his faces (shoot I cant think of his name now)

IOW we both know this is not something that just happen this year, its been building up for years

just my .02 from what I have read heard and how I was taught to handle my purchases, still it is not a rich vs poor issue

Tom

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post #25 of 40 Old Oct 21st, 2008, 11:14 am
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Re: How to Ruin the U.S. Economy

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmgs
wow, the people taking that mortgage would had done 5 minutes of research to see if they could afford that mortgage when the rates change, or market falls and they cant sell, this would had never happened!

it is personal responsibility!

it boils down to the people who signed that dotted line, why anyone wants to blame anyone else is beyond me.

They had a choice just like My wife and I did on our last purchase, (2.5 years ago)

buy something they could afford, or buy something they they could loose, hell we could had taken a low interest loan on a arm and easily afforded a home 3 times what we have, until the rates went up!! or until it came time to pay the balloon and hope the interest rates were still low.

Can you say gambling?
Gambling on a expensive purchase you can't back up with cash is just flat stupid, and these that did this deserved to loose their homes, the banks that did these loans deserved to go out of business, the stock holders that had money tied up in these institutes deserved to loose their stock money as well for not paying attention to what their investments risks were!

it ain't rich vs poor, it is the peoples faults period

rich or poor, again it can be blamed more on the left than anywhere because of the forced requirements (about 20% of the mortgage crisis) and the left bailing out the dumb banking institutes that did the 100+% loans to people who on any change in payment could loose the home, 60% home loan to income ratios? what were they thinking?!?!

still the left did cause some of this with the lending to poor requirements.

you are right about one thing, it was going to happen, and there was no stopping it, that was said back in the late 70's agian in the 90's when the republicans were questoining the fannie mae crap and what;s his faces (shoot I cant think of his name now)

IOW we both know this is not something that just happen this year, its been building up for years

just my .02 from what I have read heard and how I was taught to handle my purchases, still it is not a rich vs poor issue
I agree, the person's signing for the loans definitely exercised poor or no judgement at all. But that was just the first part of this mess, it seems to me. Packaging those suspect loans into "investment vehicles" for the rest of the financial world was not the fault of the borrowers. and that as much as anything is what caused such a collosal mess.

Greg
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post #26 of 40 Old Oct 21st, 2008, 11:15 am
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Re: How to Ruin the U.S. Economy

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Agreed. But the simple fact is that the right has had more power and influence over the last decade or so, and they just simply took things too far.
but they didnt take the budget too far, which I fear will happen again under obama.

forget your/my feelings on the war for a moment that will all be over soon anyhow, and remember it was voted on by boths sides and won overwhelmingly, which was fine with me seeing who we were attacked, but if not for that war the GOv would have a pretty decent handle on its expenses considering the past, (no not the past office, just in general)

Quote:
So now the pendulum will simply swing to the left for a while. If they can keep things reasonable, they may be able to pull off two terms before the people get so fed up that they vote the other way again. But somehow I doubt it. And yes, the two party system in itself is part of the checks and balances system. Having either power control both the White House and Congress is never good, no matter what color you happen to prefer. At least the Supreme Court Justices are appointed for life, so they don't see nearly as much swinging back and forth.
I hate to agree with a far leftist nut like you (big silly grin)

Quote:
However, I do agree that overriding all the party politics is the simple fact that a politician's primary focus is taking care of himself first, by taking care of whatever special interests feed him the most cash and benefits. Our founding fathers knew that the entire system breeds corruption, so all they could do was to try and limit that corruption as as they could foresee it. But that was 200 years ago, and I'm sure the sheer size of our current government would astound any of them.
they would probably call for a overthrow of the government, be digging up every man they could that could fight for them

Quote:
In the mean time, us little people simply try to make our way the best that we can, and to not get too caught up in the roller coaster ride constantly being thrust upon us.
yup, true there!!!

Tom

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post #27 of 40 Old Oct 21st, 2008, 6:56 pm
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Re: How to Ruin the U.S. Economy

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Originally Posted by gpolakow
....Personally, I have no idea who is to blame other than our government who for eons has paid far more attention to the needs and desires of the special interest groups than to the needs and desires of the American people as a whole....
Who is to blame? EVERYONE, really. From the borrowers buying way more home then they could afford to the lenders offering and approving the junk loans. Then, on up as this financial junk was peddled as safe investments. All up and down the chain everyone was making money on worthless, financial, junk.

The hacks for creating such huge, bloated, worthless, quasi-governmental agencies such as Freddie and Fannie. Then, failing to properly regulate them, or even encouraging recklessness through ridiculously loose lending policies.

Again, the worthless hacks for throwing TRILLIONS of taxpayer's money at all these corporations that went under because their foolish greed finally caught up to them. What could be worse than failing to purge this junk and the companies involved from the economy?

The sheeple for allowing the hacks to create all the worthless bureaucracy, to begin with.

Ultimately, this was all about greed. Everyone has to take responsibility, because we will be paying for it for years, maybe even decades!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #28 of 40 Old Oct 22nd, 2008, 8:35 am
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Re: How to Ruin the U.S. Economy

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayjacobson
Who is to blame? EVERYONE, really. From the borrowers buying way more home then they could afford to the lenders offering and approving the junk loans. Then, on up as this financial junk was peddled as safe investments. All up and down the chain everyone was making money on worthless, financial, junk.

The hacks for creating such huge, bloated, worthless, quasi-governmental agencies such as Freddie and Fannie. Then, failing to properly regulate them, or even encouraging recklessness through ridiculously loose lending policies.

Again, the worthless hacks for throwing TRILLIONS of taxpayer's money at all these corporations that went under because their foolish greed finally caught up to them. What could be worse than failing to purge this junk and the companies involved from the economy?

The sheeple for allowing the hacks to create all the worthless bureaucracy, to begin with.

Ultimately, this was all about greed. Everyone has to take responsibility, because we will be paying for it for years, maybe even decades!
Jay, it's difficult to argue with this point. The desire to be successful is always an important and healthy factor in driving capitalism, but unabated greed is the death of it. We have come to respect money more than honor, honesty, character, values. We honor the rich because they have money and we don't care how they got the money. Money = success in our culture and nothing else matters much any more. Such a system and the culture that fosters it is doomed, ultimately, to fail. And we are seeing that collapse now...and it's not over. I read yesterday that the worst crash in 1929 came AFTER the original one when the market seemed to regain strength and people got back into it hoping to recoupe their losses only to lose everything when it subsequently crashed completely. Beware, my friends.

Greg
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post #29 of 40 Old Oct 22nd, 2008, 9:30 am
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Re: How to Ruin the U.S. Economy

Lots of blame to go around on all sides.

It all goes back to the golden rule: He who has the gold makes the rules.

If you don't have the gold, better find a way to work with those who do or you will always be on the short side of the stick. Work out your own self defence and ignore all of the rest. YOU are not going to make them change in your lifetime.

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post #30 of 40 Old Oct 22nd, 2008, 10:03 am
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Sub-Prime Mortgages aren't the only problem

We shouldn't be so quick to blame sub-prime mortgages for people who couldn't afford them. There are many people who have lost their jobs due to this economy and have gone into forclosure as well. They could afford their mortgage until they lost their jobs. From today's news:
Quote:
Georgia’s job losses in September were second-worst in the nation, behind only Michigan and its beleaguered auto industry, the government reported Tuesday.

Georgia companies dropped 22,300 jobs compared to August —- the sixth straight month of losses and the worst yet, said Michael Thurmond, state labor commissioner.

Since February, Georgia has lost 93,600 jobs, he said.

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post #31 of 40 Old Oct 22nd, 2008, 10:35 am
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Re: Sub-Prime Mortgages aren't the only problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by KayGee
We shouldn't be so quick to blame sub-prime mortgages for people who couldn't afford them. There are many people who have lost their jobs due to this economy and have gone into forclosure as well. They could afford their mortgage until they lost their jobs. From today's news:
Good point.

Greg
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post #32 of 40 Old Oct 22nd, 2008, 11:43 am
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Re: Sub-Prime Mortgages aren't the only problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by KayGee
We shouldn't be so quick to blame sub-prime mortgages for people who couldn't afford them. There are many people who have lost their jobs due to this economy and have gone into forclosure as well. They could afford their mortgage until they lost their jobs. From today's news:
Man in the silk suit hurries by, just as he catches the poor old ladie's eye. Just for fun he says, get a job....

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post #33 of 40 Old Oct 23rd, 2008, 5:50 am
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Re: How to Ruin the U.S. Economy

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpolakow
Jay, it's difficult to argue with this point. The desire to be successful is always an important and healthy factor in driving capitalism, but unabated greed is the death of it. We have come to respect money more than honor, honesty, character, values. We honor the rich because they have money and we don't care how they got the money. Money = success in our culture and nothing else matters much any more. Such a system and the culture that fosters it is doomed, ultimately, to fail. And we are seeing that collapse now...and it's not over. I read yesterday that the worst crash in 1929 came AFTER the original one when the market seemed to regain strength and people got back into it hoping to recoupe their losses only to lose everything when it subsequently crashed completely. Beware, my friends.
Yeah, Greg you're right. While I do joke a lot about the "greed is good" mentality, and the "dems dat has da gold makes da rulz" bullshit, money is not the end all and be all--even in this crazy society we know as today.

As we reflect on life, I have yet to hear anyone wish that they had made that extra buck--or million bucks. (Don't ask me how I know.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by KayGee
We shouldn't be so quick to blame sub-prime mortgages for people who couldn't afford them. There are many people who have lost their jobs due to this economy and have gone into forclosure as well.....
Yes, of course! Any of us could be out of a job or even a career for numerous reasons beyond our control.

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #34 of 40 Old Oct 23rd, 2008, 6:43 am
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Re: How to Ruin the U.S. Economy

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayjacobson
Who is to blame? EVERYONE, really. From the borrowers buying way more home then they could afford to the lenders offering and approving the junk loans. Then, on up as this financial junk was peddled as safe investments. All up and down the chain everyone was making money on worthless, financial, junk.

The hacks for creating such huge, bloated, worthless, quasi-governmental agencies such as Freddie and Fannie. Then, failing to properly regulate them, or even encouraging recklessness through ridiculously loose lending policies.

Again, the worthless hacks for throwing TRILLIONS of taxpayer's money at all these corporations that went under because their foolish greed finally caught up to them. What could be worse than failing to purge this junk and the companies involved from the economy?

The sheeple for allowing the hacks to create all the worthless bureaucracy, to begin with.

Ultimately, this was all about greed. Everyone has to take responsibility, because we will be paying for it for years, maybe even decades!
Clink!!!!!!!

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post #35 of 40 Old Oct 23rd, 2008, 8:17 am
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Re: Sub-Prime Mortgages aren't the only problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by KayGee
We shouldn't be so quick to blame sub-prime mortgages for people who couldn't afford them. There are many people who have lost their jobs due to this economy and have gone into forclosure as well. They could afford their mortgage until they lost their jobs. From today's news:

but, the mortgage bailout issues were not caused by this.

the job loss has happened quickly, the mortgage crisis has been coming for years.

we have had many many construction jobs lost here in ga (which is/was realted) but the Ford and GM plant closing its operations here, then we just lost what 4 of bill heards car dealerships in atlanta alone. Heck we wont see that total loss for another 6 months from its trickle effects.

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post #36 of 40 Old Oct 23rd, 2008, 8:41 am
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Re: How to Ruin the U.S. Economy

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Originally Posted by jayjacobson
Yeah, Greg you're right. While I do joke a lot about the "greed is good" mentality, and the "dems dat has da gold makes da rulz" bullshit, money is not the end all and be all--even in this crazy society we know as today.

As we reflect on life, I have yet to hear anyone wish that they had made that extra buck--or million bucks. (Don't ask me how I know.)

Yes, of course! Any of us could be out of a job or even a career for numerous reasons beyond our control.
Good point, Jay, when all is said and done and we're preparing to cash in the chips, I bet very few say, gee, wish I had earned more money. Probably most of us could think of things we had done better (like parenting, or being a spouse, or better citizen, etc) or maybe even personal growth things we wish we had accomplished. But I don't think many at that point in our lives will feel badly we didn't earn more money. (That's just something we do now, when we want more motorcycles in our garage!)

Greg
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post #37 of 40 Old Oct 23rd, 2008, 10:08 am
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Re: How to Ruin the U.S. Economy

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Clink!!!!!!!
Clunk?!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #38 of 40 Old Oct 23rd, 2008, 10:32 am
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Re: How to Ruin the U.S. Economy

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Originally Posted by tmgs

(No I'm not anti-left just anti Obama, I'm so close to the middle it's scary)

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post #39 of 40 Old Oct 23rd, 2008, 12:56 pm
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Re: How to Ruin the U.S. Economy

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Clunk?!

I typed "clink" as is two glasses togehter

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post #40 of 40 Old Oct 23rd, 2008, 11:12 pm
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Re: How to Ruin the U.S. Economy

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I typed "clink" as is two glasses togehter
Yes, I'm so clumsy my own shadow snuck up on me and I broke one glass....Clunk!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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