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post #1 of 30 Old Jun 5th, 2008, 7:18 pm Thread Starter
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Is it really this bad?

Part 1

In just one year. Remember the election in 2006? Thought you might like to read the following:

A little over one year ago:

1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high
;
2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon;
3) The unemployment rate was 4.5%.

Since voting in a Democratic Congress in 2006 we have seen:

1) Consumer confidence plummet;
2) The cost of regular gasoline soar to over $3.50 a gallon;
3) Unemployment is up to 5% (a 10% increase);
4) American households have seen $2.3 trillion in equity value evaporate (stock and mutual fund losses);
5) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $1.2 trillion dollars;
6) 1% of American homes are in foreclosure.

America voted for change in 2006, and we got it!

Remember, it's Congress that makes law not the President.
He has to work with what's handed to him.

Quote of the Day........'My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world. I hope you'll join with me as we try to change it.' -- Barack Obama


Part 2:


Taxes...Whether Democrat or a Republican you will find these statistics enlightening and amazing.

www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.html

Taxes under
Clinton Taxes under Bush 2008
Single making 30K - tax $8,400 Single making 30K - tax $4,500
Single making 50K - tax $14,000 Single making 50K - tax $12,500
Single making 75K - tax $23,250 Single making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 60K - tax $16,800 Married making 60K- tax $9,000
Married making 75K - tax $21,000 Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 125K - tax $38,750 Married making 125K - tax $31,250

Both democratic candidates will return to the higher tax rate s
It is amazing how many people that fall into the categories above
think Bush is screwing them and Bill Clinton was the greatest
President ever. If Obama or Hillary are elected, they both say they
will repeal the Bush tax cuts and a good portion of the people that
fall into the categories above can't wait for it to happen. This is
like the movie, The Sting with Paul Newman; you scam somebody out of
some money and they don't even know what happened.


PART 3:
You think the war in
Iraq is costing us too much? Read this:
Boy, am I confused. I have been hammered with the propaganda that it is the
Iraq war and the war on terror that is bankrupting us. I now find that to be RIDICULOUS. I hope the following 14 reasons are forwarded over and over again
until they are read so many times that the reader gets sick of reading them. I have included the URL's for verification of all the following facts.

1 . $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year by state governments.
Verify at:
http://tinyurl.com/zob77

2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.

verify at:
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

3.
$2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.
Verify at:
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

4.
$12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!
verify at:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html

5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
Verify at
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.
Verify at:
http://transcripts .cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.
Verify at:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...01/ldt.01.html

8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers.
Verify at:
http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html

9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.
Verify at:
http://transcripts.cnn. com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

10.
The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US.
Verify at:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html

11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border; also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border.
Verify at: Homeland Security Report:
http: //tinyurl.com/t9sht

12. The National Policy Institute, 'estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.'
Verify at:
http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf

13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin.
Verify at:
http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm

14. 'The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The
United States.'
Verify at:
http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml

The total cost is a whopping $338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR. Are we THAT stupid?




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Last edited by andy; Jun 5th, 2008 at 7:50 pm. Reason: typo
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post #2 of 30 Old Jun 5th, 2008, 7:36 pm
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Re: Is it really this bad?

THAT is a wake-up call. Very informative....thanks for the great post.
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post #3 of 30 Old Jun 5th, 2008, 9:54 pm
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Re: Is it really this bad?

holy shit......thats frightening.


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post #4 of 30 Old Jun 5th, 2008, 10:12 pm
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Re: Is it really this bad?

More people need to be hit over the head with information like this. "Change we can believe in".... Um... I'm sorry; What? Is it just me, or the fact that a nobody from out of nowhere with no experience and let's just say "questionable" character traits (and circle of friends) just won the Democratic nomination..... just completely escapes people as proving that all his disingenuous rhetoric, not matter how eloquently spoken, is just BS?

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post #5 of 30 Old Jun 5th, 2008, 10:27 pm
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Re: Is it really this bad?

Pretty freightening stats. Do not get me wrong here, I hate democrats. Oh yeah, I also hate repubublicans but not as much. One thing you forgot to mention in your stats of millions and billions.... That is the multi TRILLIONS the national debt has gone up since the George W guy took office. Now that is a really scary number. Lets get rid of the democratic party, The Republican party, and last but not least the lawyer party and we can maybe take control of our country again....

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post #6 of 30 Old Jun 6th, 2008, 5:25 am Thread Starter
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Re: Is it really this bad?

Screw that!

Let's get rid of ALL professional politicians and vote in plumbers, cops, teachers, carpenters, etc. Our government is so out of touch that it hasn't the slightest idea how the common man lives..... nor could a politician live like a normal man. I'd bet they couldn't survive for one month.



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post #7 of 30 Old Jun 6th, 2008, 6:22 am
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Re: Is it really this bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by grifscoots
Screw that!

Let's get rid of ALL professional politicians and vote in plumbers, cops, teachers, carpenters, etc. Our government is so out of touch that it hasn't the slightest idea how the common man lives..... nor could a politician live like a normal man. I'd bet they couldn't survive for one month.
If we want change - that would that be a very interesting change. I like your thinking man!

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post #8 of 30 Old Jun 6th, 2008, 7:02 am
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Re: Is it really this bad?

Wow are we getting fucked!

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post #9 of 30 Old Jun 6th, 2008, 7:36 am
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Re: Is it really this bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KMC1
More people need to be hit over the head with information like this. "Change we can believe in".... Um... I'm sorry; What? Is it just me, or the fact that a nobody from out of nowhere with no experience and let's just say "questionable" character traits (and circle of friends) just won the Democratic nomination..... just completely escapes people as proving that all his disingenuous rhetoric, not matter how eloquently spoken, is just BS?
He has had good training by Mayor Daley and associates in Chicago. Last Governor in jail, present Governor should be in jail, talk of impeachment at this time. you run with dirty dogs, some of the mud is bound to rub off.

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post #10 of 30 Old Jun 6th, 2008, 8:04 am
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Re: Is it really this bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by grifscoots
Screw that!

Let's get rid of ALL professional politicians and vote in plumbers, cops, teachers, carpenters, etc. Our government is so out of touch that it hasn't the slightest idea how the common man lives..... nor could a politician live like a normal man. I'd bet they couldn't survive for one month.
+2 !!!
You're absolutely right!
I think what needs to happen is that we as a society begin to go back to the days when we viewed participation in local (and National for that matter) polititcs as part of the "cost" of living in America. The loss of wages from the time spent volunteering in local politics (which takes away from time to work overtime/second job etc.) needs to be viewed as part of our "costs". That is how it used to be, long ago, but over time has changed until now, when people speak of the Government, use the word "them" instead of "us" - even though the foundation of our form of Government is based on Government by the people.....

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post #11 of 30 Old Jun 6th, 2008, 8:47 am
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Re: Is it really this bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KMC1
+2 !!!
You're absolutely right!
I think what needs to happen is that we as a society begin to go back to the days when we viewed participation in local (and National for that matter) polititcs as part of the "cost" of living in America. The loss of wages from the time spent volunteering in local politics (which takes away from time to work overtime/second job etc.) needs to be viewed as part of our "costs". That is how it used to be, long ago, but over time has changed until now, when people speak of the Government, use the word "them" instead of "us" - even though the foundation of our form of Government is based on Government by the people.....

Grif,

Now you've done it!... You've pushed Kevin's politics button!

I'm moving to Belgium... at least the beer is good.

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post #12 of 30 Old Jun 6th, 2008, 8:55 am
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Re: Is it really this bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by grifscoots
Screw that!

Let's get rid of ALL professional politicians and vote in plumbers, cops, teachers, carpenters, etc. Our government is so out of touch that it hasn't the slightest idea how the common man lives..... nor could a politician live like a normal man. I'd bet they couldn't survive for one month.
I agree with you totally, Except after your plummers, teachers, and carpenters get elected they still would vote with their "party" on issues. They should be voting on issues without concern for how your party votes.

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USA where everything is illegal
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post #13 of 30 Old Jun 6th, 2008, 9:22 am
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Re: Is it really this bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by grifscoots
Screw that!

Let's get rid of ALL professional politicians and vote in plumbers, cops, teachers, carpenters, etc. Our government is so out of touch that it hasn't the slightest idea how the common man lives..... nor could a politician live like a normal man. I'd bet they couldn't survive for one month.
Sorry, but no way in hell would I vote in anyone that was a member of a Union. They don't know how to live in the real world either.


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post #14 of 30 Old Jun 6th, 2008, 9:57 am Thread Starter
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Re: Is it really this bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwsdad
Sorry, but no way in hell would I vote in anyone that was a member of a Union. They don't know how to live in the real world either.
Good grief!! How right you are. I was just thinking the everyday Joe, or Joette.



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post #15 of 30 Old Jun 6th, 2008, 10:31 am
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Re: Is it really this bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWphreak
Grif,

Now you've done it!... You've pushed Kevin's politics button!

I'm moving to Belgium... at least the beer is good.
And the chicks are HOT

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post #16 of 30 Old Jun 6th, 2008, 12:21 pm
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Re: Is it really this bad?

Here is why this kind of info has (unfortunately) very little impact:

The people that will read the majority of this summary already know most of the information, or at least have a clue what direction the country is going.

The rest either does not care, or reads only a few sentences and returns to being oblivious to the world around them.

Sad, but true

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post #17 of 30 Old Jun 6th, 2008, 12:50 pm
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Re: Is it really this bad?

You can blame the democratic majority in congress all you want, but the republicans aren't any better. To say congress creates the law is inaccurate. Both the congressional and executive branch are needed to pass a law, and the executive branch wields lots of influence over the contents, since he can veto it. The democrats don't have the majority needed to override a veto.

The biggest blame you can lay on congress is they haven't been doing their job of reigning in the abuse of powers exercised by Bush and company. If he wanted something, they gave it to him. Most have admitted they didn't read the patriot act or the military commissions act. These are terrible, unconstitutional and unamerican laws, but the democrats rolled over and gave Bush whatever he asked for. Bush is the worst constitutional president since Lincoln. Granted, if Hillary gets elected, she might give him a run for his money, but Bush has set the bar pretty high.

The real problem is the growing size of government, and the drain that puts on the economy. In his first campaign, Bush talked about how the republicans are for smaller government, and then grew the size of the government faster than any president in history, with a republican congress. I only heard him repeat this tag line once in his reelection. I think his advisers told him to stay away from that, and rightfully so. Still some people are living in the past, thinking the republicans don't want big government. Look around. It's getting bigger all the time.

South Park summed it up in an episode that stated politics is always about choosing between a giant douche and a turd sandwich. Both parties suck. Both have run the economy into the ground. Both believe in big government, high taxes and giving taxpayer money to their friends. They just have different friends.

The collapse has been coming for a long time. Like musical chairs, the one left standing when the music stops will get all the blame, but its been clear what's going to happen for a long time. A collapse is probably needed to fix things, but a lot of good people are going to get hurt.

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post #18 of 30 Old Jun 6th, 2008, 12:53 pm
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Re: Is it really this bad?

I keep a simple voting policy. If there is a independent candidate I vote for them first, if only a Rep or Dem I vote for the one that isn't in office. We should never re-elect someone who has already served a term in office.

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post #19 of 30 Old Jun 6th, 2008, 4:10 pm
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Re: Is it really this bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by grifscoots
Are we THAT stupid?
And *only* $165 billion spent on Iraq and Afghanistan war efforts in 2007 alone,
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/89xx/doc8...sts_Letter.pdf,
which is in itself half of the TOTAL of those 14 items.


The $165 billion figure does not include the 'cost' of 4000+ dead brothers and sisters (as of 6 Jun 2008) , lost while finding all those 'weapons of mass destruction'.
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/casualty.pdf


In order for any of this stuff to get to where it has already, somewhere along the line, someone was counting on someone else being THAT stupid.


Myself, during and after a ride in this 98 degree heat, I'm stupid enough to drink a mix of hydroxylic acid (which can cause micturition)http://cancerweb.ncl.ac.uk/cgi-bin/omd?micturition and solid chunks of dihydrogen-monoxide (a major component of acid rain) http://www.dhmo.org/environment.html to bring the temperature of the hydroxylic acid to around 273K. I do this on a regular basis.

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post #20 of 30 Old Jun 6th, 2008, 4:58 pm
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Re: Is it really this bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjaun2
Lets get rid of the democratic party, The Republican party, and last but not least the lawyer party and we can maybe take control of our country again....
Greg and the rest of you pissed off voters,
Remember you can always write me in!
I am change you can believe in!
http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36187

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post #21 of 30 Old Jun 6th, 2008, 5:06 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Is it really this bad?

And while we are on forwarded emails:

Are you aware that the Saudis are boycotting American products?

Can't we take control of our own destiny and let these giant oil importers know who REALLY generates their profits, their livings? How about leaving American Dollars in America and reduce the import/export deficit?


An appealing remedy might be to boycott their GAS. Every time you fill up your car you can avoid putting more money into the coffers of Saudi Arabia. Just purchase gas from companies that don't import their oil from the Saudis.

Nothing is more frustrating than the feeling that every time I fill up
my tank, I'm sending my money to people who I get the impression want me, my family and my friends dead. Don't you think it might be of interest to know which oil companies import Middle Eastern oil and which do not?


These companies import Middle Eastern oil:

Shell.................................... 205,742,000 barrels

Chevron/Texaco.................. 144,332,000 barrels

Exxon /Mobil....................... 130,082,000 barrels

Marathon/Speedway............ 117,740,000 barrels

Amoco................................ 62,231,000 barrels



CITGO oil is imported from Venezuela by Dictator Hugo Chavez who hates America and openly avows our economic destruction! (We pay Chavez's regime nearly $10 Billion per year in oil revenues!)


The U.S. currently imports 5,517,000 barrels of crude oil per day from OPEC. If you do the math at $95 per barrel, that's over $524 million PER DAY ($191 BILLION per year!) handed over to OPEC, many of whose members are our confirmed enemies!!!!


Here are some large companies that do not import Middle Eastern oil:


Sunoco....................... .. 0 barrels

Conoco........................ 0 barrels

Sinclair......................... 0 barrels

BP / Phillips........................ 0 barrels

Hess. ..................................0 barrels

ARC0.................................0 barrels

Maverick...................... 0 barrels

Flying J. ..............................0 barrels

Valero......................... 0 barrels


-Murphy Oil USA sold at Wal-Mart is from South Arkansas and owned USA

-Not only that they give scholarships to all children in their town who finish high school and are legal US citizens.



All of this information is available from the U.S. Department of Energy and each company is required to state where they get their oil and how much they are importing.

But to have a real impact, we need to reach literally millions of gas buyers.



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post #22 of 30 Old Jun 6th, 2008, 5:11 pm
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Re: Is it really this bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky_k1200lt
Myself, during and after a ride in this 98 degree heat, I'm stupid enough to drink a mix of hydroxylic acid (which can cause micturition)http://cancerweb.ncl.ac.uk/cgi-bin/omd?micturition and solid chunks of dihydrogen-monoxide (a major component of acid rain) http://www.dhmo.org/environment.html to bring the temperature of the hydroxylic acid to around 273K. I do this on a regular basis.
Bob, You're Funny!

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post #23 of 30 Old Jun 6th, 2008, 5:48 pm
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Thumbs up Drill here. Drill now, Pay less.

Well I might as well throw this one at y'all.

http://www.americansolutions.com/act...b-346a1e096659

Norris Cooper Andover Kansas USA
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post #24 of 30 Old Jun 6th, 2008, 8:06 pm
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Re: Is it really this bad?

Here's something to think about - what will happen to the price of fruits and veggies?

Seriously.

One item to note for #9 - the $200 billion is attributed to both LEGAL and illegal immigration. For arguments sake, lets say it's 50/50, so let's reduce the $338.3 billion to $238.3 billion.

Now, approx 117 million taxpayers (or households) are getting the economic stimulus rebate, so $238,300,000,000 / 117,000,000 = $2,036.75 per "household". Divide that by 52 and you get $39.17 per week. Of course, this number would be further offset by corporate tax revenues.

So, before anyone jumps on me let me say I do not support/favor illegal immigration. There is no question about the increased burden placed upon schools, law enforcement, the judicial system, welfare system, health care, etc. I just honestly do not know what a viable solution to the problem is. However, one thing that should be changed is that if you are an illegal and are arrested, you should be deported immediately.

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post #25 of 30 Old Jun 6th, 2008, 8:15 pm
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Re: Is it really this bad?

I think it has been said before, GRIF for Prez!

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post #26 of 30 Old Jun 6th, 2008, 9:27 pm
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Re: Is it really this bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by grifscoots
And while we are on forwarded emails:

Are you aware that the Saudis are boycotting American products?

Can't we take control of our own destiny and let these giant oil importers know who REALLY generates their profits, their livings? How about leaving American Dollars in America and reduce the import/export deficit?
http://www.startribune.com/business/...r=Your%20Money

the Bakken formation, a deposit of crude oil beneath the durum wheat fields of North Dakota, Montana and southern Saskatchewan and Manitoba. The Bakken may give the United States -- the world's biggest importer of oil -- a new domestic energy source.

Bakken crude needs little refining. Swirl some of it in a Mason jar and it leaves a thin, honey-colored film along the sides. It's light -- almost like gasoline -- and sweet, meaning it's low in sulfur. Best of all, the Bakken could be huge. The U.S. Geological Survey (USGS) estimated in 2000 that the Bakken might hold 413 billion barrels. If so, it would dwarf Saudi Arabia's Ghawar, the world's biggest field, which has produced about 55 billion barrels.
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post #27 of 30 Old Jun 6th, 2008, 11:38 pm
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Re: Is it really this bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by grifscoots
... Let's get rid of ALL professional politicians and vote in plumbers, cops, teachers, carpenters, etc. Our government is so out of touch that it hasn't the slightest idea how the common man lives..... nor could a politician live like a normal man. I'd bet they couldn't survive for one month.
That could work, but before we do it everybody needs to read George Orwell's "Animal Farm", a short novel about what happens when you oust the ruling class and put yourself in their place.

The summary: "All animals are created equal. Some are just more equal than others." (that's a pretty close quote I believe; it's been a few years)

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post #28 of 30 Old Jun 8th, 2008, 2:48 pm
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Is it really this bad?

In a word, Grif, YES! Los Angeles County ALONE spends over $ONE BILLION annually on illegals.

BUT, your mistake is you are trying to use LOGIC to counter EMOTION. The rabid "EVIL W" haters just wanted change. In their little myopic world, he is the sole focus of all EVIL. You clearly see the results of change. Nobody ever bothers to ask if said change will be any better than we have now. A perfect illustration of this is Obama. We've ALREADY been though 4 years of Carter (and that was more than enough). But, we MUST have change!

Compared to what we spend on ridiculous big government social programs, Iraq is chump change. But, why let logic and statistics get in the way of all that emotion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by grifscoots
....Let's get rid of ALL professional politicians and vote in plumbers, cops, teachers, carpenters, etc. Our government is so out of touch that it hasn't the slightest idea how the common man lives..... nor could a politician live like a normal man. I'd bet they couldn't survive for one month.
+1 Grif! Grif! Grif! They ALL blow!
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky_k1200lt
And *only* $165 billion spent on Iraq and Afghanistan war efforts in 2007 alone....
Actually, $165 BILLION is probably conservative....I'm not trying to excuse foolish war spending in the slightest. I'm pointing out that the "ADD media" goes out of the way to keep a running tally of all Iraq expenses--right down to a daily body count. But, many much bigger issues (like illegal immigration costs) get a pass. If the ADD media wants to keep a running tally, fine. Let's keep track of all the important issues, not just a few.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morley
....The Bakken formation, a deposit of crude oil beneath the durum wheat fields of North Dakota, Montana and southern Saskatchewan and Manitoba....
Crude aside, we have a 500 year supply of high quality coal (the type that is more easily refined into crude) in the US, alone. Funny thing about that coal: it just doesn't magically excavate and refine itself!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #29 of 30 Old Jun 8th, 2008, 3:05 pm
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Re: Is it really this bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayjacobson
In a word, Grif, YES! Los Angeles County ALONE spends over $ONE BILLION annually on illegals.

BUT, your mistake is you are trying to use LOGIC to counter EMOTION. The rabid "EVIL W" haters just wanted change. In their little myopic world, he is the sole focus of all EVIL. You clearly see the results of change. Nobody ever bothers to ask if said change will be any better than we have now. A perfect illustration of this is Obama. We've ALREADY been though 4 years of Carter (and that was more than enough). But, we MUST have change!

Compared to what we spend on ridiculous big government social programs, Iraq is chump change. But, why let logic and statistics get in the way of all that emotion?
+1 Right on the money!

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post #30 of 30 Old Jun 8th, 2008, 3:46 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Is it really this bad?

Originally Posted by Morley
....The Bakken formation, a deposit of crude oil beneath the durum wheat fields of North Dakota, Montana and southern Saskatchewan and Manitoba....

The biggest problem with the Bakken formation is we don't have the technology to draw it out yet. They are experimenting with drilling into the formation, drilling sideways once it's there and then pressurizing it with salt water to break the shale.

Once the technology improves (and it has, drastically, in the last 20 years) then, and only then, will the Bakken formation be worth it.



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