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post #1 of 34 Old Jun 5th, 2008, 1:05 pm Thread Starter
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Exclamation File under: You just can't make this stuff up!

Oregon Offers to Pay to Kill, but Not to Treat Cancer Patient

By Tim Waggoner

SALEM, Oregon, June 4, 2008 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Lung cancer patient, Barbara Wagner, was recently notified that her oncologist-prescribed medication that would slow the growth of cancer would not be covered by the Oregon Health Plan; the plan, however, she was informed, would cover doctor-assisted suicide should she wish to kill herself.

"Treatment of advanced cancer that is meant to prolong life, or change the course of this disease, is not a covered benefit of the Oregon Health Plan," read the letter notifying Wagner of the health plan's decision.

Wagner says she was shocked by the decision. "To say to someone, we'll pay for you to die, but not pay for you to live, it's cruel," she told the Register-Guard. "I get angry. Who do they think they are?"

This past Monday morning, however, Wagner had reason to rejoice. A representative from the company that manufactures the treatment called the cancer patient to say they would give her the medication for free.

"I am just so thrilled," she said. "I am so relieved and so happy."

Dr. Walter Shaffer, medical director of the state Division of Medical Assistance Programs, which administers the Oregon Health Plan, attempted to defend the health plan's decision. "We can't cover everything for everyone," he said. "We try to come up with polices that provide the most good for the most people." Shaffer then addressed a priority list that had been developed to ration health care. "There's some desire on the part of the framers of this list to not cover treatments that are futile," he said, "or where the potential benefit to the patient is minimal in relation to the expense of providing the care."

According to an AP story on Wagner's case, local oncologists in Oregon have said that, despite the Health Services Commission's assertion that they were just clarifying policies already in place, healthcare practitioners have observed a sizable shift in policy in the way recurrent cancer is treated in the state. Increasingly, say local oncologists, sufferers of recurrent cancer are not receiving coverage for chemotherapy. They are always, however, eligible for state-funded assisted suicide.

Wesley J. Smith, a prominent conservative bioethicist, says that he was not surprised by the events.

"We have been warning for years that this was a possibility in Oregon. Medicaid is rationed, meaning that some treatments are not covered. But assisted suicide is always covered. And now, Barbara Wagner was faced with that very scenario."

Smith also mentioned a similar circumstance that had occurred in the past: "This isn't the first time this has happened either. A few years ago a patient who needed a double organ transplant was denied the treatment but would have been eligible for state-financed assisted suicide."


http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/jun/08060402.html

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post #2 of 34 Old Jun 5th, 2008, 3:10 pm
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Re: File under: You just can't make this stuff up!

And people are pushing for nation wide social health care...No thanks.
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post #3 of 34 Old Jun 5th, 2008, 4:33 pm
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Re: File under: You just can't make this stuff up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morley
And people are pushing for nation wide social health care...No thanks.
Actually a social heath care system would be better than what we have. It works quite well in France and very little gets denied.

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post #4 of 34 Old Jun 5th, 2008, 8:47 pm
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Re: File under: You just can't make this stuff up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by zippy_gg
Actually a social heath care system would be better than what we have. It works quite well in France and very little gets denied.
Ah, but we aren't France. We have almost 5 times the population and no where near their crippling tax rate.
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post #5 of 34 Old Jun 5th, 2008, 9:14 pm
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Re: File under: You just can't make this stuff up!

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Originally Posted by zippy_gg
Actually a social heath care system would be better than what we have. It works quite well in France and very little gets denied.

I can't wait to go to my doctor and feel like I am in line at the DMV.

No thanks.

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post #6 of 34 Old Jun 5th, 2008, 10:04 pm
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Re: File under: You just can't make this stuff up!

Not only is the system in France NOT a good system, almost everyone in Europe who lives in a country with a socialized health care system has the option to carry a private health care insurance. Of course only the wealthy are able to do so (and most do). So HOW is that a more "Liberal", "Progressive", and "compassionate" system?
I actually had a (young) woman at a clothing store near my home tell me that COMMUNISM is "the" answer, while discussing politics as I was shopping. She works there and SHE brought the discussion around to politics... for once I am innocent of being the one to bring it up... She attends CCSU and is taking... wait for it.... Psychology courses....
Her comment was actually "Communism is the answer, however it just hasn't been done correcty YET - it's just always been done by a dictator" ( )
The "answer" is that maybe if we weren't spending BILLIONS of dollars on illegal immigrants, BILLIONS on incarceration for people whom do not deserve a second chance, BILLIONS on welfare for perfectly able bodied human beings, BILLIONS on aid to countries where we should NOT be involved... etc. etc. etc..... we could not only afford adequate health care, we would have unrivaled health care. We would have parks with good equipment and adequate staff, a thriving private sector, affordable higher education (that hopefully would NOT promote communism for God's sake) and most likely would be able to achieve this with single income families instead of everyone having to work like indentured servants while our money is pissed away.

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post #7 of 34 Old Jun 5th, 2008, 11:58 pm
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Re: File under: You just can't make this stuff up!

About the "best" social medicine program I've ever seen (haven't seen them all) would have been waaayyy back in the early 80's...West Germany. The only problem was the wait, unless you were in dire need of attention.
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post #8 of 34 Old Jun 6th, 2008, 10:28 am
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Re: File under: You just can't make this stuff up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by michman
I can't wait to go to my doctor and feel like I am in line at the DMV.

No thanks.
Try going to the Er at any hospital here and see how mant hours before seeing a doctor, unless you are bleeding or unconscious. The entire system needs to be revamped, and keep the insurance out of bossing doctors around.

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post #9 of 34 Old Jun 6th, 2008, 10:30 am
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Re: File under: You just can't make this stuff up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morley
Ah, but we aren't France. We have almost 5 times the population and no where near their crippling tax rate.
There is a much denser population in France since there aren't any deserts, and if you think we aren't taxed to death in the US you must only be making minimum wages...

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post #10 of 34 Old Jun 6th, 2008, 10:40 am
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Re: File under: You just can't make this stuff up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by KMC1
Not only is the system in France NOT a good system, almost everyone in Europe who lives in a country with a socialized health care system has the option to carry a private health care insurance. Of course only the wealthy are able to do so (and most do). So HOW is that a more "Liberal", "Progressive", and "compassionate" system?
Take it form someone who was born and grew up there. I was never denied medical treatment, nor did I ever had to wait 4-5 weeks to get a doctor's appointment as I do in California. I can only speak form experience and not from someone else's tale... [/QUOTE]

Quote:
Originally Posted by KMC1
The "answer" is that maybe if we weren't spending BILLIONS of dollars on illegal immigrants, BILLIONS on incarceration for people whom do not deserve a second chance, BILLIONS on welfare for perfectly able bodied human beings, BILLIONS on aid to countries where we should NOT be involved... etc. etc. etc..... we could not only afford adequate health care, we would have unrivaled health care. We would have parks with good equipment and adequate staff, a thriving private sector, affordable higher education (that hopefully would NOT promote communism for God's sake) and most likely would be able to achieve this with single income families instead of everyone having to work like indentured servants while our money is pissed away.
I couldn't agree more. Does anyone think McCain is the man to put an end to this?

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post #11 of 34 Old Jun 6th, 2008, 1:00 pm
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Re: File under: You just can't make this stuff up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by zippy_gg
There is a much denser population in France since there aren't any deserts, and if you think we aren't taxed to death in the US you must only be making minimum wages...
Population density doesn't figure into this, just sheer numbers. And if you think you are taxed harsly now, try social medicine, that money is going to come from somewhere...your pocket.
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post #12 of 34 Old Jun 6th, 2008, 1:01 pm
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Re: File under: You just can't make this stuff up!

Quote:
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I couldn't agree more. Does anyone think McCain is the man to put an end to this?
NO. None of the choices is going to do a damned thing about it.
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post #13 of 34 Old Jun 6th, 2008, 7:59 pm
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Re: File under: You just can't make this stuff up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morley
NO. None of the choices is going to do a damned thing about it.
Choices?
There are no choices, just the similar elite factions telling the rest of us how we should live .

Sure wish a second party would show in up is a U.S. election some one of these decades.
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post #14 of 34 Old Jun 8th, 2008, 3:44 pm
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Re: File under: You just can't make this stuff up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by michman
I can't wait to go to my doctor and feel like I am in line at the DMV. No thanks.
WTF? I hear the "official" DMV Kameras and appointment system work very well. They even take credit cards, now!....Or was that the "official" post office?....
Quote:
Originally Posted by zippy_gg
....Does anyone think McCain is the man to put an end to this?
Uummmm we may have been born at night--but not last night!

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post #15 of 34 Old Jun 8th, 2008, 3:57 pm
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Re: File under: You just can't make this stuff up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by KMC1
I actually had a (young) woman at a clothing store near my home tell me that COMMUNISM is "the" answer, while discussing politics as I was shopping.
Her comment was actually "Communism is the answer, however it just hasn't been done correcty YET - it's just always been done by a dictator"
Paalao must have a sister in this country!

You might remind her the communisum was tried here in 1620 by the Pilgrims. William Bradford was far from being a dictator! They damn near starved to death!

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1285981/posts

"Governor Bradford is basically saying that communism failed because of the corrupt nature of humans. People are imperfect and sinful. The utopia Marx and Lenin dreamed of could only work if it were filled with perfect people- and no such infallible people can be found in this world."

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post #16 of 34 Old Jun 8th, 2008, 4:02 pm
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You just can't make this stuff up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by norriscooper
Paalao must have a sister in this country!....
A sister--as in ONLY ONE?! Damn near everyone in Kommyfornia is related to him!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #17 of 34 Old Jun 8th, 2008, 8:37 pm
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Re: File under: You just can't make this stuff up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by zippy_gg
Take it form someone who was born and grew up there. I was never denied medical treatment, nor did I ever had to wait 4-5 weeks to get a doctor's appointment as I do in California. I can only speak form experience and not from someone else's tale...
I couldn't agree more. Does anyone think McCain is the man to put an end to this?[/QUOTE]

Zippy,

It seems that most in the U.S. are willing to be dependent on big government for their : energy, transportation, military protection, farming, food distribution and a host of other leftist commie policies.
In fact the U.S. government has more power and control over its citizens than most other countries in the world.
However , we have freedom of choice when it comes to health care .
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post #18 of 34 Old Jun 8th, 2008, 9:05 pm
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Re: File under: You just can't make this stuff up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by norriscooper
Paalao must have a sister in this country!

You might remind her the communisum was tried here in 1620 by the Pilgrims. William Bradford was far from being a dictator! They damn near starved to death!

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1285981/posts

"Governor Bradford is basically saying that communism failed because of the corrupt nature of humans. People are imperfect and sinful. The utopia Marx and Lenin dreamed of could only work if it were filled with perfect people- and no such infallible people can be found in this world."
Norris, this is really great information. I wasn't aware of this until your post, so thank you for it!

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post #19 of 34 Old Jun 8th, 2008, 9:20 pm
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Re: File under: You just can't make this stuff up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oisin
It seems that most in the U.S. are willing to be dependent on big government for their : energy, transportation, military protection, farming, food distribution
What country do you live in?
My "energy" is supplied by a private company, not the govt. Transportation? The airlines are owned by the govt.? The bus companies too? Farmers are paid by the govt.? Those are actually govt. co-op farms? Food distribution? The trucking companies and rail lines are run by the govt.? The govt. pays or even subsidizes their fuel costs, insurance, or maintenance costs?

And for military "protection" we should hire mercenaries? What country doesn't have their own military?
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post #20 of 34 Old Jun 9th, 2008, 9:05 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morley
What country do you live in?
My "energy" is supplied by a private company, not the govt. Transportation? The airlines are owned by the govt.? The bus companies too? Farmers are paid by the govt.? Those are actually govt. co-op farms? Food distribution? The trucking companies and rail lines are run by the govt.? The govt. pays or even subsidizes their fuel costs, insurance, or maintenance costs?

And for military "protection" we should hire mercenaries? What country doesn't have their own military?
Morley,
I am guessing Oisin lives in Cuba!!!! or Norway!

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post #21 of 34 Old Jun 9th, 2008, 11:14 am
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Re: File under: You just can't make this stuff up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by norriscooper
Morley,
I am guessing Oisin lives in Cuba!!!! or Norway!
Norway
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post #22 of 34 Old Feb 12th, 2009, 11:01 pm
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Re: File under: You just can't make this stuff up!

As much as I want to get involved into this discussion because I have seen health care from these "other - better" countries.. We give care to the illegals free ( we pay for it!), knowing well it will never be paid or attempted.
Over there (pointing eastward) we foreigners (there legally!) will have to pay in advance- the full ticket prior to any diagnosis or procedure. For some reason my price was more than double that of the locals (before the govt paid the rest of their ticket). My guess is that I can afford it since I am amerkun.

I can see why others think their system is so great.
I also have to pay dearly for my health care as well in the USA.
I just wish that when the same discussion is administered to us, that they see what we see in other countries.

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post #23 of 34 Old Feb 13th, 2009, 12:18 am
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Re: File under: You just can't make this stuff up!

That's outrageous!
This is America where you are entitled to whatever medical treatment you can afford.
The government has no business pay for someone to kill themselves. If you can't afford the expense of dying, go to Mexico and kill yourself--its the patriotic thing to do.

If you are too poor to live in America, LEAVE!

If you get laid-off, stop dragging everybody else down, sell your body parts for CASH to people who can afford to live.

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post #24 of 34 Old Feb 13th, 2009, 2:02 am
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File under: You just can't make this stuff up!

Man, talking about resurrecting an OLD thread!

Anywho, that's why we need the HUGE, nanny-state government to take over all health care immediately! Then we can have all the health care we want--for "FREE!"

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post #25 of 34 Old Feb 13th, 2009, 2:06 am
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Re: File under: You just can't make this stuff up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BecketMa
....The government has no business pay for someone to kill themselves. If you can't afford the expense of dying, go to Mexico and kill yourself--its the patriotic thing to do....
Bob, how about a "bi-partisan" compromise and "we" pay for the trip to mexico?!

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post #26 of 34 Old Feb 13th, 2009, 2:21 am
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Re: File under: You just can't make this stuff up!

In the original post there is a key word........ Futile It was meant that her condition is futile. Think about it. Perhaps the world is going broke because to much money is spent on Futile causes. Then this post turned political. Once again FUTILE....

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post #27 of 34 Old Feb 13th, 2009, 2:45 am
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Re: File under: You just can't make this stuff up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjaun2
In the original post there is a key word........ Futile It was meant that her condition is futile. Think about it. Perhaps the world is going broke because to much money is spent on Futile causes. Then this post turned political. Once again FUTILE....
Brian, I COULD NOT agree more! Is not the human condition "futile?" As I've always said: smoking should be encouraged. The net savings are immense!

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post #28 of 34 Old Feb 13th, 2009, 10:03 am
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Re: File under: You just can't make this stuff up!

We can just stuff em into buss or planes of illegals being sent back to Mexico. and then bill Mexico.

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post #29 of 34 Old Feb 13th, 2009, 8:09 pm
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Originally Posted by BecketMa
We can just stuff em into buss or planes of illegals being sent back to Mexico. and then bill Mexico.
Sounds good, Bob! AND as many Malboro Reds as they wanna smoke on the way down!

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post #30 of 34 Old Feb 14th, 2009, 10:17 pm
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Re: File under: You just can't make this stuff up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by KMC1
The "answer" is that maybe if we weren't spending BILLIONS of dollars on illegal immigrants, BILLIONS on incarceration for people whom do not deserve a second chance, BILLIONS on welfare for perfectly able bodied human beings, BILLIONS on aid to countries where we should NOT be involved... etc. etc. etc..... we could not only afford adequate health care, we would have unrivaled health care. We would have parks with good equipment and adequate staff, a thriving private sector, affordable higher education (that hopefully would NOT promote communism for God's sake) and most likely would be able to achieve this with single income families instead of everyone having to work like indentured servants while our money is pissed away.
Yeah! What KMC1 said

If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand--Milton Friedman
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post #31 of 34 Old Feb 17th, 2009, 2:52 am
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Re: File under: You just can't make this stuff up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by zippy_gg
Does anyone think McCain is the man to put an end to this?
Wow, talk about resurrecting the dead.

Ken
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'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles miles and counting...
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
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All lower 48 states plus Alaska on the K13GT in two weeks . . .

Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #32 of 34 Old Feb 17th, 2009, 6:26 pm
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Re: File under: You just can't make this stuff up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
Wow, talk about resurrecting the dead.
Now, now, now, Ken! If "Darth Cheney" counts as "living," surely McSenile has a bounce in his step?!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #33 of 34 Old Feb 18th, 2009, 8:17 am
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Re: File under: You just can't make this stuff up!

The comparison of "Free Healthcare" and "you get what you pay for" come to mind.

Alex H Lindsay
Melbourne, FL
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post #34 of 34 Old Feb 18th, 2009, 8:31 am
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Re: File under: You just can't make this stuff up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morley
And people are pushing for nation wide social health care...No thanks.
First off:
If I were Barbara Wagner I would chose the assist suicide option and ask if to be performed on Dr. Walter Shaffer !!!!!

Rant On:
Ya but the politicals are saying everyone and everythng will be covered once were are the Nanny state !!
examples:

Heart conditions caused by excessive weight
If you weight 600LBS because you cant stop eating or won’t get any exercise!!!!

Lung problems :
Cuase from smoking(If you are under 60) because before that it was healthy to smoke not just cool !!!!!.


Motorcycle injuries:
Yes I believe if you make a PERSONAL CHOICE to participate in risky activities such as Motorcycling, Sky diving, Excessive alcohol consumption, Smoking, Drugs, Professional video game player you also have some PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, not YOU but ME !!!

When are people going to be held responsible for their actions and choices ?

If I were Barbara Wagner I would chose the assist suicide option and ask if to be performed on Dr. Walter Shaffer !!!!!

Rich Kirker
2002 LTC Pacific Blue
Caliper Moto Lights, Hyper light brake lights, Spiegler brake lines, Ride West side markers, Grip puppies, HyperPro Springs and CA HID Kit.
BMWMOA #124306
2009 Honda Shadow (Wife's)
Blue & Pearl
"Well It’s not rocket science but absolutely a nightmare. At the end of the day you had a fairly unique situation that I personally at this moment in time could see me having as well 24/7. With all due respect, it shouldn’t of happened."

Last edited by rkirker; Feb 18th, 2009 at 8:41 am.
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