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post #1 of 14 Old May 27th, 2008, 8:28 am Thread Starter
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a cause for concern?

For the longest time I've had the idea in my head that if I were King for a Day, I would make everyone ride a motorcycle at least one year before being allowed to get behind the wheel of a car. My thinking was that 1) it would make you a better driver, and 2) it weed out all the idiots through the process of elimination.

Recently, my views have changed. Witness some of the posts made here and on the sister site, k-bikes.com about first time riders wanting to jump on an LT or GT.

While I think it's great that more and more people take up riding, my concern now is that due to the high gas prices many are making the move to motorcycling as a means to save money. Now, that in itself is not bad. What's bad is the choice some are making and the irresponsibility of some dealerships to sell bikes that are just way to powerful for a first time rider. I see tthis as bad news for all motorcyclists. Why? Because of 2 reasons really. 1) it's going to serve as re-enforcement to some folks that bikes are death traps, and the biggest reason 2) insurance rates are going to go through the roof due to all the accidents - either from novice riders or just the shear increase in number of riders.

So, why can't we enact a law that states that you are limited to a 500cc bike if you have never ridden before for a period of 1 year - minimum? I know big bikes are a lot of fun, but not for a novice. Yeah, I know some folks can handle it, but I venture to say 98% won't be able to. Way too much power, plus the brakes on these bikes have flat out incredible stopping power. And without ABS, they can be a handful.

OK, that's my rant of the day. Thanks for listening.


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'99K1200LT - "Bertha" - gone, but not forgotten!
'86 Concours - "Horse with no name" (under reconstructive surgery)
'06 K1200GT - "Road Rocket"
Marshall, Tx


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post #2 of 14 Old May 27th, 2008, 9:18 am
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Re: a cause for concern?

Damn Doug...You need to run for the legislature or congress. All we need is another law or regulation to take away our rights. We have lost so many already in my lifetime by the so called do-gooders. I completely disagree with this point of view. May sound good to some...but case in point. My friend and yours first motorcycle was a K1200LT. Could not even ride it when he bought it. Had the dealer deliver to his house. He (Dick Largen) took the riders course and has been riding for years with no problems. Can you imagine what he would look like riding a small bike

Monte,
Kerrville
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post #3 of 14 Old May 27th, 2008, 9:31 am
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Re: a cause for concern?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwsdad
So, why can't we enact a law that states that you are limited to a 500cc bike if you have never ridden before for a period of 1 year -
That's what we need, one more law. But...it does sound good.

One of the kids in our Church group (Not yet 16 but soon) jujst got his M/C licence and is the owner of a Kawa Ninja 600. It's an older bike and needs work but hs plan is to have it road ready (new clutch and body parts) before he turns 16. My thinking is a 600cc Ninja is a bit too much for a boy.

"BONES" <///><
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post #4 of 14 Old May 27th, 2008, 10:03 am Thread Starter
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Re: a cause for concern?

Quote:
Originally Posted by monmon2
Damn Doug...You need to run for the legislature or congress. All we need is another law or regulation to take away our rights. We have lost so many already in my lifetime by the so called do-gooders. I completely disagree with this point of view. May sound good to some...but case in point. My friend and yours first motorcycle was a K1200LT. Could not even ride it when he bought it. Had the dealer deliver to his house. He (Dick Largen) took the riders course and has been riding for years with no problems. Can you imagine what he would look like riding a small bike

Monte,
Kerrville
Yep, there exceptions to every rule. Heck, I started out on a Suzuki 425. Not only was it under powered, but with me on it, it was GROSSLY under powered. But it was a good learner bike and I could pick it up when I dropped it (or when it sank into the hot asphalt).

Doesn't Europe limit the size of the bike for beginners?


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'99K1200LT - "Bertha" - gone, but not forgotten!
'86 Concours - "Horse with no name" (under reconstructive surgery)
'06 K1200GT - "Road Rocket"
Marshall, Tx


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post #5 of 14 Old May 27th, 2008, 11:35 am
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Re: a cause for concern?

Quote:
Originally Posted by monmon2
Damn Doug...You need to run for the legislature or congress. All we need is another law or regulation to take away our rights. We have lost so many already in my lifetime by the so called do-gooders. I completely disagree with this point of view. May sound good to some...but case in point. My friend and yours first motorcycle was a K1200LT. Could not even ride it when he bought it. Had the dealer deliver to his house. He (Dick Largen) took the riders course and has been riding for years with no problems. Can you imagine what he would look like riding a small bike

Monte,
Kerrville
Oucheeee - you thinkin' monkey on a football or sumpthin'?!!!!

I dunno - I'm kinda on the fence on this one. Paradoxically, when I took the MSF BRC, all they had on the range were Honda 'Nighthawks'; leetle 250cc thangs. (There's your monkey on a football pic!!). What I got outta the course that helped me wuz: how to mount the bugger; how to turn on ignition, fire it up and take off; how to stop, turn it off in correct sequence, and dismount; how to countersteer (butt mostly in the classroom environment); and some classroom safety instruction.

Now here is where I side with Doug - if BOTH the MSF courses, and the local Driver's Ed classes, involved more of the real world experience, I think folks would come outta class a LOT better graduates than they do now. Get me out in some traffic; take me thru some stop-n-go intersections; teach me how to watch all the thangs I need to look out for to be a safe driver/rider; give me real world experience in making proper lane changes, or changing direction of travel for accident avoidance. I know they put these leetle cones out on a huge parking lot and I gotta weave thru 'em; stop at a certain point; look both ways; engage blinkers, etc. Butt after that, the streets around my casa don't have leetle cones; they're not huge parking lots; and there are a lot more cognitive thangs to sort out than a painted stripe on a piece of asphalt, with spaced cones.

Now - having said all that; for the basic rider course, if you're going after JUST THE BASICS, then I realize you gotta start and stop somewhere. Butt a follow-up requirement should be the ERC on a bike that you own, and again, take me off the huge parking lot with a painted box - Boerne don't got those!! The painted box shows what me and ole Toad are capable of doing (or not doing), butt when I find the situation where I have to employ that capability, there are gonna be a lot more outside stimulus that I need to recognize than a leetle ole painted box!

Realizing a pack of students out on the city streets isn't gonna happen, I still think two/three in a group, with a good leader and some prior instructions on what might possibly be encountered, and what we're gonna look for, is better than that huge parking lot exercise - after which I'm on my own in a much different environment.

So - yep, it ain't gonna happen, even if it is a good thang. I've heard tell that some European countries do have a stepped riding registration before one can graduate to larger scoots, and eventually cages. I don't know that all of Europe is that way, nor do I know where it is employed. Butt it sure would've helped me in my scoot-formative years. I rode a '63 Triumph 650 Bonneville in Taiwan for three years, and to this day, don't know how I survived - no training; no mentor; no riding buddies any smarter than me; and no ATGATT ('cept when on base, some type of helmet wuz required - I think it coulda even been like one of Grif's tin foil thangies!! ). Butt, here I are, putting ole Toad thru the paces, sporting the angel bell that Grif gave us, and enjoying the ride. Still run about 110% paying attention and the rest luck!!! Ride safe, all.

Hey Doug, you got a huge parking lot over by your place - that baseball complex!! Wanna do an ERC brush up when they're not running the bases???
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post #6 of 14 Old May 27th, 2008, 12:29 pm Thread Starter
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Re: a cause for concern?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick
Oucheeee - you thinkin' monkey on a football or sumpthin'?!!!!
Hey Doug, you got a huge parking lot over by your place - that baseball complex!! Wanna do an ERC brush up when they're not running the bases???

Yeah, the Mrs referred to me as a Moose on a Stool back when I had the 425. I had to start somewhere, and I was scared to death of those big behemuth 800's back then.

Ya know, that might not be a bad place to have one. Except right now the only time it's available is from about midnite to 6am on weekends. Seems like they something going on over there all the time.


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'99K1200LT - "Bertha" - gone, but not forgotten!
'86 Concours - "Horse with no name" (under reconstructive surgery)
'06 K1200GT - "Road Rocket"
Marshall, Tx


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post #7 of 14 Old May 27th, 2008, 12:37 pm
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Re: a cause for concern?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwsdad
For the longest time I've had the idea in my head that if I were King for a Day, I would make everyone ride a motorcycle at least one year before being allowed to get behind the wheel of a car. My thinking was that 1) it would make you a better driver, and 2) it weed out all the idiots through the process of elimination.

Recently, my views have changed. Witness some of the posts made here and on the sister site, k-bikes.com about first time riders wanting to jump on an LT or GT.

While I think it's great that more and more people take up riding, my concern now is that due to the high gas prices many are making the move to motorcycling as a means to save money. Now, that in itself is not bad. What's bad is the choice some are making and the irresponsibility of some dealerships to sell bikes that are just way to powerful for a first time rider. I see tthis as bad news for all motorcyclists. Why? Because of 2 reasons really. 1) it's going to serve as re-enforcement to some folks that bikes are death traps, and the biggest reason 2) insurance rates are going to go through the roof due to all the accidents - either from novice riders or just the shear increase in number of riders.

So, why can't we enact a law that states that you are limited to a 500cc bike if you have never ridden before for a period of 1 year - minimum? I know big bikes are a lot of fun, but not for a novice. Yeah, I know some folks can handle it, but I venture to say 98% won't be able to. Way too much power, plus the brakes on these bikes have flat out incredible stopping power. And without ABS, they can be a handful.

OK, that's my rant of the day. Thanks for listening.
When I was 15 (yes that was a long time ago) I got my MC drivers lic. but... It was only for 100 cc or smaller. When I turned 16 and had a lil experience the cc restriction was removed. It made me a safer rider I think.

Stevie Shreeve
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post #8 of 14 Old May 27th, 2008, 12:42 pm
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Re: a cause for concern?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwsdad
Ya know, that might not be a bad place to have one. Except right now the only time it's available is from about midnite to 6am on weekends. Seems like they something going on over there all the time.
Yeah, you're right. It took awhile for that complex to get rollin', butt when it did, it's being used beeg time. I used to ride over there and practice u-turns and run the carstops, and do the 'stop on a steep uphill intersection and take off left or right'. Always looked around to see if anyone wuz back in the picnic area in case I needed to holler *Help*!!

Hey, BTW - breakfast Satiday at the Sunset. I'll follow you???
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post #9 of 14 Old May 27th, 2008, 1:08 pm
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Re: a cause for concern?

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Originally Posted by Dick

Hey, BTW - breakfast Satiday at the Sunset. I'll follow you???
It's a shame when the memory goes.

dan
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post #10 of 14 Old May 27th, 2008, 1:12 pm
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Re: a cause for concern?

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It's a shame when the memory goes.

dan
And the discretionary budget has a shortfall of just about what a Valentine 1 costs!!!
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post #11 of 14 Old May 27th, 2008, 1:20 pm
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Re: a cause for concern?

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And the discretionary budget has a shortfall of just about what a Valentine 1 costs!!!
We need to get Hank to put a governor on board.

dan
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post #12 of 14 Old May 27th, 2008, 1:21 pm
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Re: a cause for concern?

I bought my first bike at 15, when I got my drivers license. Yamaha DOHC 650. had that for a year, and at 16 bought a brand new yamaha 750 Triple. Put over 140k on that one before selling it for 500 bucks. went for a time without a bike, and ended up on a BMW K1100 LT (ChestNut Roaster!)

I bought my 5'4 wife a VLX 600, and trained her, my 15 YO son, and later, my 18 YO daughter.

Last year she moved up to a VStar 1100 Custom, Midnite Raven.

My son went out at 15 (and a half) and bought a brand new VFR 800 with his own money. he had worked on a farm starting at 10YO, and paid 10,000 in hundreds for the 2001 VFR, off the showroom floor.

he now has over 25k miles, no tickets, no accidents, and gets 8k or better on a set of tires.

it isnt the size of the bike, its the attitude of the rider. you can kill yourself on a 450, and you will be just as dead as on a 1000 Ninja.

That being said, my sons bike is in my name (for insurance) and he knows, if I hear of him pulling any kind of stunt riding, the bike will be sold on e-bay for 500 bucks. no questions asked.

He is ATGATT, as is my wife and I, and daughter (who has a 2007 Yamaha YZF 600R).

Mark Conlogue
MCSE, MCT
CEH (Certified Ethical Hacker)
CBCP


I take Life with a grain of salt......and a slice of lime and a shot of Tequila
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20 grand & 2K miles don't make you a biker
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IT SAID "LIVE TO RIDE" ON THEIR TRAILER
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post #13 of 14 Old May 27th, 2008, 2:08 pm Thread Starter
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Re: a cause for concern?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick
Yeah, you're right. It took awhile for that complex to get rollin', butt when it did, it's being used beeg time. I used to ride over there and practice u-turns and run the carstops, and do the 'stop on a steep uphill intersection and take off left or right'. Always looked around to see if anyone wuz back in the picnic area in case I needed to holler *Help*!!

Hey, BTW - breakfast Satiday at the Sunset. I'll follow you???
I can do that! what time ya wanna scoot up there?


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'99K1200LT - "Bertha" - gone, but not forgotten!
'86 Concours - "Horse with no name" (under reconstructive surgery)
'06 K1200GT - "Road Rocket"
Marshall, Tx


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post #14 of 14 Old May 27th, 2008, 2:38 pm
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Re: a cause for concern?

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I can do that! what time ya wanna scoot up there?
Meetcha at the Dodgin' Duck around 0700.
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