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post #1 of 75 Old May 13th, 2008, 9:56 am Thread Starter
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Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/20...ience.religion

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post #2 of 75 Old May 13th, 2008, 10:21 am
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Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/be...ishops_en.html

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post #3 of 75 Old May 13th, 2008, 10:21 am
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Smile Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

Great minds think alike!

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post #4 of 75 Old May 13th, 2008, 10:44 am Thread Starter
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Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear


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post #5 of 75 Old May 13th, 2008, 12:31 pm
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Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

WAY COOOOOOOL!

Quote:
Originally Posted by paalao

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post #6 of 75 Old May 13th, 2008, 12:49 pm
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Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

I have as much respect for Einstein's view on religeon, as I would any other pagan. I do, however, believe whole-heartedly that his view has changed quite a bit since his death.
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Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

Quote:
Originally Posted by cfell
"Instead of religion, seen as metaphysical and as something from above - perhaps also as something individualistic -, the great moral themes come into play as the essential which then confers dignity on man and engages him."

So I see that his holiness agrees with me - do the right thing simply because it's the right thing to do, and not because you're expecting some sort of everlasting reward from that guy on the pack of cigarette rolling papers.

As for his views on controlling abortion, gay marriage, and the necessity of the church in people's lives, well let's just say that he's missing the point and that his assumptions and arguments are basically irrelevant in today's society.

Hey, at least we're already in the right forum so no one has to move this one.

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post #8 of 75 Old May 13th, 2008, 1:18 pm
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Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
I have as much respect for Einstein's view on religeon, as I would any other pagan. I do, however, believe whole-heartedly that his view has changed quite a bit since his death.
And that's simply an assumption based on your own preconceived notions.

Tell you what Joe, when we're both dead, then we can discuss it further. Deal?

Ken
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post #9 of 75 Old May 13th, 2008, 1:45 pm
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Thumbs up Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

Quote:
Originally Posted by paalao
Pål,
Since you are obviously searching for the truth you might start my looking what this astrophysicist has to say http://www.christis.org.uk/archive/i...scientist.html

Or what astrophysicist Dr. Hugh Ross has to say http://www.tedmontgomery.com/bblovrvw/C_1a.html
and
http://www.reasons.org/

Here is another reason to come visit me:
Dr. Einstein's brain was kept in a jar right here in Kansas for a while!!!
He wasn't using it anymore! Read all about it.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=4602913

Go outside and look abound, there is plenary evidence every where that God exists!
"For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse (Rom. 1:20)."

This is serious business, I will not joke around with you on this topic like I do on so many others!

Pål, I continue to pray for you.

Norris
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post #10 of 75 Old May 13th, 2008, 1:54 pm
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Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
Tell you what Joe, when we're both dead, then we can discuss it further. Deal?
Well . . . that's a lovely thought, but we both know that there are issues with that. Accordingly to your beliefs, we will both be dead and rot away, so we won't be discussing anything at that point. And according to my beliefs, I'll be in heaven with Jesus and you ... not so much. So, no discussion there either. Well, not unless you have a change of heart (then mind) by the time you die.

Don't fret Ken, I'm still praying for ya. One of these days you'll "come around".
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post #11 of 75 Old May 13th, 2008, 2:43 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

Quote:
Originally Posted by norriscooper
Pål,
Since you are obviously searching for the truth you might start my looking what this astrophysicist has to say http://www.christis.org.uk/archive/i...scientist.html

Or what astrophysicist Dr. Hugh Ross has to say http://www.tedmontgomery.com/bblovrvw/C_1a.html
and
http://www.reasons.org/

Here is another reason to come visit me:
Dr. Einstein's brain was kept in a jar right here in Kansas for a while!!!
He wasn't using it anymore! Read all about it.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=4602913

Go outside and look abound, there is plenary evidence every where that God exists!
"For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse (Rom. 1:20)."

This is serious business, I will not joke around with you on this topic like I do on so many others!

Pål, I continue to pray for you.

Norris

Norris,

A religious scientist will always try to work around his faith in a way that where he cant explain it then he makes up a way that fits his beliefs. Even if the scientific evidence is huge he will find away around it.
The mass brainwashing which a religion is, is stronger obviously then the evidence he finds or look for and on those items that may make him doubth, he will avoid.

Then you have to take in account that the Bible is rewritten all the time to fit the time we live in, thus we have lots of different views coming forward and that makes the masses still flock around the fables of the origin. WHY? you may ask, becouse the words of the original would not suit a modern society and thus the religion may die out. And who have to gain on the religion staying on? The powerfull and those who want to controle the masses.
Religion = Power

You are saying that if I look outside then there is plenty of evidence that God exsist. And I am wondering what you put in a god? is nature a god ?
is life a god? Is other planets also gods? and are all the galaxies also god?
Or is god for you an thinking entity that makle up roules to live by? how about the other gods? There must be thousands of gods and why are not theire gods the right god?
See how weird this is ?

IMO religion should be banned from all public display, either in politics and in any form that makes a roule for someone to live by. I think religion is something for the dark cellars or to stay hidden in some "closet" becouse no other movement have coused so much distress to anyone and everyone then those living under the power of belief in gods.

I may respect a person but never will I respect his religion.

Norris, I am not searching for any truth, I know the truth and it is based on science which is proven, not fables and caracters from a book of fairytales as previous descirbed.
hat baffles me is how you and others who are quite bright, how you can ignore the facts and instead believe in fiction from an old and many times rewritten book. That will always baffle me.

Knowing that you mean well, you can pray as mush as you will for me, you have my "blessings"

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post #12 of 75 Old May 13th, 2008, 2:56 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

To the religious.

How about life on other planets?
Very few religious people belive that there is life on other planets...and I am wondering.
If they think that, then how can they claim that god created earth with all its features? What about the other visible planets and those we know is out there ?
Are we to belive that there is no life on other planets and that the "god" only thought about creating life on one planet?
If you grab a fist full of sand on a big sandy beach, then you take out 1 grain of that sand and think of that as planet earth. Then look around you at all the sand/planets out there...is it then not naiv to believe that we are alone? More naiv then believe that there is a god out there running the whole show?

For the records, I have seen 3 flying wessels on seperate occations that is definately not something you will find on earth and I do have the aviation background to say so.

Take care where ever your dreams, thoughts and believes will take you

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post #13 of 75 Old May 13th, 2008, 3:31 pm
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Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

I still don't understand. One is logic - one is belief. They do not mix and you cannot debate belief. What would you use for reference that would hold up? If someone wishes to believe in something that is fine, but don't look for logic to explain it.

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post #14 of 75 Old May 13th, 2008, 4:24 pm
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Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

Pål,

You must have too much time one your hand. Nobody is going to change anybodies mind here. We are all mature, some more than others adults and have our belief system firmly in place. The reason we are here is to socialize with other rider and learn how to maintain and improve our bikes .

To me, riding a well running bike on a great day with my wife behind me to a gathering of friends to enjoy a great meal and great company, and than make it home without incident makes me thank God. This whole experience did not just happened randomly there had to be an intelligent process to make all of this come together at the same time. Thats just my view, at least in this country we are all entitled to our own view.

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post #15 of 75 Old May 13th, 2008, 4:47 pm
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Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang
Pål,

You must have too much time one your hand. Nobody is going to change anybodies mind here.
AAAAAAa ... MEN!!!
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post #16 of 75 Old May 13th, 2008, 5:14 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang
Pål,

You must have too much time one your hand. Nobody is going to change anybodies mind here. We are all mature, some more than others adults and have our belief system firmly in place. The reason we are here is to socialize with other rider and learn how to maintain and improve our bikes .

To me, riding a well running bike on a great day with my wife behind me to a gathering of friends to enjoy a great meal and great company, and than make it home without incident makes me thank God. This whole experience did not just happened randomly there had to be an intelligent process to make all of this come together at the same time. Thats just my view, at least in this country we are all entitled to our own view.
Yes Wolfgang, I am on sick leave so nothing much to do during the days before my surgery will be but sit here or ride my bike. Riding my bike give me aces in my leg joints so I cant do that either all day.

The first posting was news, news which kind a explains what Einstein really ment instead of him beeing constantly abused by the religious in him beeing a religious person, Kind a set it streight thingy. Then someone responded to me "Pål" and as a courtecy I responded back.

Yes the notion of maturity is certantly here in age, and most likely in life also.
I also read between the lines Wolfgang

Beeing German I am sure you know that in all of the modern western world we are ALL entitled to our own views so the point of you beeing there as in having an exclusive right does not hold water Why else mention it ?

We differ on many things you and I but still we can have a friendly conversation. And I am sure that you understand my need to comment when you may say something that can be seen like you have a special right in something becouse you live there, (again why mention it if there is no point to it) for me to point out that this special right is universal accepted elswhere also.

But maybe that is where I get to be immature...when I point that out? Or when I give an exstenicve explanation to my stand when someone is asking for it.
I`d admitt that I did not get that in the last tread where Norris asked me about investing, I thought it was a sincere request and gave an extencive indebth explanation, and not a joke as it turns out, on his behalf. But hopefully next time I will get it and then joke back hoping that he was not serious that time.

Good night and sweet dreams to all of you

Pål

PS!

"This whole experience did not just happened randomly there had to be an intelligent process to make all of this come together at the same time."

Yes Wolfgang and that process was your doing or the one who set the arrangment up, not your God

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post #17 of 75 Old May 13th, 2008, 5:23 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

Quote:
Originally Posted by dandiver
I still don't understand. One is logic - one is belief. They do not mix and you cannot debate belief. What would you use for reference that would hold up? If someone wishes to believe in something that is fine, but don't look for logic to explain it.
Very good answear

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post #18 of 75 Old May 13th, 2008, 5:41 pm
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Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

says Paaloo: Good night and sweet dreams to all of you

I get nervous when a guy says that to me...

Wolfgang

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post #19 of 75 Old May 13th, 2008, 6:29 pm
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Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

http://www.astrobio.net/news/article966.html

http://homepage.mac.com/WebObjects/F...cty=US&lang=en

"Believing in science is being religious." http://media.www.sacredheartspectrum...-3134214.shtml

http://www.americanscientist.org/tem...sessionid=baa9...
Quote:
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Science and Faith: An Excerpt from Brother Astronomer

Science is ultimately based on insight, not logic. But it uses logic to explain and test and develop the insights on which it is based.

Religion is not all that different. To say it is based on faith, not logic, is both false and totally misrepresents what we mean by faith.

Explaining faith is like trying to explain a joke, or trying to describe a color to a blind person....

The science fundamentalist believes, and the religious fundamentalist fears, that religion is a fairy tale suitable only for children, and that once you learn science it will leave no more room for religion. But that just doesn't happen.

Some people are tone-deaf. It's not their fault, and I don't criticize them for it. But I might get bent out of shape if a tone-deaf person insisted that my love of music was a hallucination, based on lies my parents taught me.

Or more absurdly, that my love of music would go away once I'd learned the physics of sound waves.

Brother Astronomer: Adventures of a Vatican Scientist
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxx

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post #20 of 75 Old May 13th, 2008, 6:36 pm
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Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
Well . . . that's a lovely thought, but we both know that there are issues with that. Accordingly to your beliefs, we will both be dead and rot away, so we won't be discussing anything at that point. And according to my beliefs, I'll be in heaven with Jesus and you ... not so much. So, no discussion there either. Well, not unless you have a change of heart (then mind) by the time you die.

Don't fret Ken, I'm still praying for ya. One of these days you'll "come around".
Well Joe, you beat me to it!

Well said.

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post #21 of 75 Old May 13th, 2008, 7:18 pm
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Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang
says Paaloo: Good night and sweet dreams to all of you

I get nervous when a guy says that to me...
You don't have to be nervous unless he kisses you goodnight!

Reminds me of the time in my corporate life when attending a convention I had to room with a guy who snored. I was told to simply kiss him good night and that would keep HIM up all night!

Now back to your previous debate............ on religion/faith/belief and logic of it....

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post #22 of 75 Old May 13th, 2008, 7:19 pm
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Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang
says Paaloo: Good night and sweet dreams to all of you

I get nervous when a guy says that to me...
LOL. Just don't get too close!
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post #23 of 75 Old May 13th, 2008, 7:32 pm
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Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang
To me, riding a well running bike on a great day with my wife behind me to a gathering of friends to enjoy a great meal and great company, and than make it home without incident makes me thank God.
If that works for you, then that's all that counts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang
This whole experience did not just happened randomly there had to be an intelligent process to make all of this come together at the same time.
There "had to be" is where we differ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by norriscooper
Go outside and look abound, there is plenary evidence every where that God exists!
Yes, the world is a beautiful, incredible, amazing place, but I see no proof that that is due to some supreme being or intelligent design. None. That's why they call it "faith", as in you have to have faith that what you see fits your preconceived notions of how the world works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang
Thats just my view, at least in this country we are all entitled to our own view.
Agreed, although I wish it was that simple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang
Nobody is going to change anybodies mind here.
Agreed. But then why do the "faithful" try so hard to change mine? Or just assume I'm doing it wrong and will eventually "come around"? All that does is steel my resolve to speak out about my own beliefs and to openly question theirs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by norriscooper
I continue to pray for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
Don't fret Ken, I'm still praying for ya.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pkpr1998
Well Joe, you beat me to it!
Well, if that makes ya'll feel better, then more power to you. But be fully aware that you're doing it to make yourselves feel better, or superior, or whatever, and not at all for my benefit.

Remember, I won't try and change your mind unless you keep coming to try and change mine.

Ken
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All lower 48 states plus Alaska on the K13GT in two weeks . . .

Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #24 of 75 Old May 13th, 2008, 7:37 pm
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Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

Channing,

The music analogy is a good one. I'm still not buying it mind you but it is a good argument.

Hang on though, isn't "dancing to the music that only you can hear" often a sign of someone who's lost touch with reality and is considered, well, crazy? Hmm.

Ken
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post #25 of 75 Old May 13th, 2008, 9:56 pm
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Thumbs up Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
But then why do the "faithful" try so hard to change mine?
Remember, I won't try and change your mind unless you keep coming to try and change mine.
Ken,
Don't shoot me I'm only the messenger!

No one is forcing anything on you, you clicked on this post.

Pål is either trolling, looking to pick a fight, or searching.
I took classes from a professor who actually had these very conversations with Einstein at Princeton when he was in seminary.

Pål and I have very little in common but we do belong to the same cult-- BMW riders!!!!!

Now let's all get out and ride!

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post #26 of 75 Old May 13th, 2008, 11:10 pm
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Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

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Originally Posted by meese
Channing,

The music analogy is a good one. I'm still not buying it mind you but it is a good argument.

Hang on though, isn't "dancing to the music that only you can hear" often a sign of someone who's lost touch with reality and is considered, well, crazy? Hmm.
Ken,
sure... crazy.. guilty crazy. I hear the music.. and harmonics of God's creation. Perhaps you do as well, but call it a different name...that isn't an accusation.

I heard a line once.. http://insidecatholic.com/Joomla/ind...=527&Itemid=48
Went something like this quote from the link above:
"Yet the movie had its redeeming moment, which came when Beethoven, played by the excellent Ed Harris, turned to his copyist and said: "The vibrations in the air are the breath of God speaking to man's soul. Music is the language of God. We musicians are as close to God as men can be. We hear his voice. We read his lips. We give birth to the children of God who sing his praise. That's what musicians are. And if we're not that, we're nothing." "


Of course, a "good ride" has interesting effects that are hard to scientifically explain...

...............
J.M.J...
Dcn Channing

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post #27 of 75 Old May 13th, 2008, 11:58 pm
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Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

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sure... crazy.. guilty crazy. I hear the music.. and harmonics of God's creation. Perhaps you do as well, but call it a different name...that isn't an accusation.
That also makes some sense. I can appreciate all the power and beauty that is around us, but don't necessarily need to anthropomorphize it into a kind old man or his gentle son for it all to make sense.

I don't have trouble with the basic concept of religion. It's clear that there is more going on than we mortals can understand and searching for answers and comfort is only human.

It's really the organization and dogmatization that troubles me, and all the corruption that inevitably invades and rots any large organization. After all, we're only human.

So my problem isn't necessarily with how the universe works but more with being told how it works. Again, I think the fairy tale analogy works well here and for many folks, that seems to be enough. But when they get so caught up in the rules and the symbols and the dogma that they subsume their own unique perspective entirely into the party line of the the church (whatever church that may be), then I pity them, but understand that they've made their choice.

However, when they relentlessly proselytize and vow to change me or pray for me, then I view that as a personal attack and I will respond in kind. Hence the discussions and debates that tend to flower up around here every so often.

Live and Let Live only works for as long as they will let you.

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post #28 of 75 Old May 14th, 2008, 12:04 am
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Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

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Originally Posted by norriscooper
Don't shoot me I'm only the messenger!
Careful, Norris, that word can carry some pretty negative connotations around here.

Besides, you seem to be able to hold your own.

Your primary mistake is a pretty common one; that is being so wrapped up in your own beliefs that you just can't possibly see any other way. Hence your desire to "save" people by converting them to what you know must be right. The trouble is, many of us don't want or need to be "saved".

How can you convince someone to choose the glories of heaven over the tortures of hell when they simply don't believe that either exists, except as fables and bogey-man stories designed to keep the masses happy and sedated and in line?

And I have a pretty good idea where Pål stands, based on his public persona and a few private conversations. Sometimes though, he can't help but poke at the hornets nest to see what comes out. But I dare say that he's not the only one around here who does so.

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post #29 of 75 Old May 14th, 2008, 2:00 am Thread Starter
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Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
Careful, Norris, that word can carry some pretty negative connotations around here.

Besides, you seem to be able to hold your own.

Your primary mistake is a pretty common one; that is being so wrapped up in your own beliefs that you just can't possibly see any other way. Hence your desire to "save" people by converting them to what you know must be right. The trouble is, many of us don't want or need to be "saved".

How can you convince someone to choose the glories of heaven over the tortures of hell when they simply don't believe that either exists, except as fables and bogey-man stories designed to keep the masses happy and sedated and in line?
And I have a pretty good idea where Pål stands, based on his public persona and a few private conversations. Sometimes though, he can't help but poke at the hornets nest to see what comes out. But I dare say that he's not the only one around here who does so.
So many words of wisdom, if only the "other" side took it in

The word Trolling:

The term troll is highly subjective. Some readers may characterize a post as trolling, while others may regard the same post as a legitimate contribution to the discussion, even if controversial. The term is often erroneously used to discredit an opposing position, or its proponent, by argument fallacy ad hominem. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

A troll is a fearsome member of a mythical race from Norse mythology. Originally more or less the Nordic equivalents of giants, although often smaller in size, the different depictions have come to range from the fiendish giants – similar to the ogres of England (also called Trolls at times, see Troller's Gill) – to a devious, more human-like folk of the wilderness, living underground in hills, caves or mounds. In the Faroe islands, Orkney and Shetland tales, trolls are called trows, adopted from the Norse language when these islands were settled by Vikings.


Nordic literature, art and music from the romantic era and onwards has adapted trolls in various manners – often in the form of an aboriginal race, endowed with oversized ears and noses. From here, as well as from Scandinavian fairy tales such as Three Billy Goats Gruff, trolls have achieved international recognition, and in modern fantasy literature and role-playing games, trolls are featured to the extent of being stock characters.

The meaning of the word troll is unknown. It might have had the original meaning of supernatural or magical with an overlay of malignant and perilous.
Much like the beliefes in a Godm where his wraith will come down on you if you dont follow him or his laws.

While the everyday folklore consisted mostly of short anecdotes describing things that had (supposedly) happened to local people, fairytales are narratives that rarely claim to be true in the same way.
To ward off the trolls you could always trust in Christianity: Church bells, a cross or even words like "Jesus" or "Christ" would work against them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll

We all know now that the tales of Trolls are fairy tales spun out of wild imaginations to maybe tame the children, and a spin of like Santa to make them happy or a God to make the trolls go away. All are connected into gobblings, trolls, gods, and all other kind of superstition with a hidden agenda.
The trolls and goblings and Santa to control the children and the more advanced God to controle the grown ups. And by giving God a human form they kind a write him into be true and the others to be fairy tales. Fairy tales for grown up!

It is SAD really.

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post #30 of 75 Old May 14th, 2008, 2:04 am Thread Starter
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Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
Careful, Norris, that word can carry some pretty negative connotations around here.

Besides, you seem to be able to hold your own.

Your primary mistake is a pretty common one; that is being so wrapped up in your own beliefs that you just can't possibly see any other way. Hence your desire to "save" people by converting them to what you know must be right. The trouble is, many of us don't want or need to be "saved".

How can you convince someone to choose the glories of heaven over the tortures of hell when they simply don't believe that either exists, except as fables and bogey-man stories designed to keep the masses happy and sedated and in line?
And I have a pretty good idea where Pål stands, based on his public persona and a few private conversations. Sometimes though, he can't help but poke at the hornets nest to see what comes out. But I dare say that he's not the only one around here who does so.
So many words of wisdom, if only the "other" side took it in

The word Trolling:

The term troll is highly subjective. Some readers may characterize a post as trolling, while others may regard the same post as a legitimate contribution to the discussion, even if controversial. The term is often erroneously used to discredit an opposing position, or its proponent, by argument fallacy ad hominem. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

A troll is a fearsome member of a mythical race from Norse mythology. Originally more or less the Nordic equivalents of giants, although often smaller in size, the different depictions have come to range from the fiendish giants – similar to the ogres of England (also called Trolls at times, see Troller's Gill) – to a devious, more human-like folk of the wilderness, living underground in hills, caves or mounds. In the Faroe islands, Orkney and Shetland tales, trolls are called trows, adopted from the Norse language when these islands were settled by Vikings.





Nordic literature, art and music from the romantic era and onwards has adapted trolls in various manners – often in the form of an aboriginal race, endowed with oversized ears and noses. From here, as well as from Scandinavian fairy tales such as Three Billy Goats Gruff, trolls have achieved international recognition, and in modern fantasy literature and role-playing games, trolls are featured to the extent of being stock characters.

The meaning of the word troll is unknown. It might have had the original meaning of supernatural or magical with an overlay of malignant and perilous.
Much like the beliefes in a God where his wraith will come down on you if you dont follow him or his laws.

While the everyday folklore consisted mostly of short anecdotes describing things that had (supposedly) happened to local people, fairytales are narratives that rarely claim to be true in the same way.
To ward off the trolls you could always trust in Christianity: Church bells, a cross or even words like "Jesus" or "Christ" would work against them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll

We all know now that the tales of Trolls are fairy tales spun out of wild imaginations to maybe tame the children, and a spin of like Santa to make them happy or a God to make the trolls go away. All are connected into gobblings, trolls, gods, and all other kind of superstition with a hidden agenda.
The trolls and goblings and Santa to control the children and the more advanced God to controle the grown ups. And by giving God a human form they kind a write him into be true and the others to be fairy tales. Fairy tales for grown up!

It is SAD really.

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post #31 of 75 Old May 14th, 2008, 3:50 am
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Smile Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
Your primary mistake is a pretty common one; that is being so wrapped up in your own beliefs that you just can't possibly see any other way. Hence your desire to "save" people by converting them to what you know must be right. The trouble is, many of us don't want or need to be "saved".

How can you convince someone to choose the glories of heaven over the tortures of hell when they simply don't believe that either exists,
Ken,
I have seen the other way, I have been on both sides of the fence.

**** I cannot save you, only God can do that!****

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post #32 of 75 Old May 14th, 2008, 4:04 am
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Smile Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

Pål,
Thanks for showing us your collection of trolls, TWICE. Where did you get those little bitty fearsome dudes? Ebay! They sure look happy! Perhaps they are going for a ride with you today! They remind me of something we have over here, Hillary!

It's good to see your sense of humor coming back!

The word shoot was purposely chosen, I didn't think a pacifist would be willing to use a gun against someone exercising their right to free speech.
Ops, my mistake, not every one out there is a pacifist! I guess I better watch my six till this blows over!

Enjoy the morning,
Norris

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post #33 of 75 Old May 14th, 2008, 5:09 am
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Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

I hope there is room for a few more comments.
How many times has the bible been rewritten? The king james I use has been around for a way - way long time.
Most of the religious trouble in the world stems from Abraham's two sons. This is no fable, it is still costing lives today, and it will get worse.
If you get past the crust of the argument of does God exist and study the bible you may see;
God is a spirit, not some old man.
God created flesh of man one time. Right here on earth.
Jesus was the beginning of the creation of God.
There is a differance between; created, formed and made.
We are still in the 6th day of creation, look at Daniel's prophecy of the 70 weeks. Science agrees with this. God has not rested yet.
Religion was designed to control the masses, the word of God was designed to set you free.
I don't fault anyone from turning away from 'religion' with all the crap that has gone on over the years, I understand your unbelief. But if you would take time to dig deeper than the normal argument you would see things that blow your mind. "Deep calleth unto deep"

Still -
Just a dog without a bone ~...............

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post #34 of 75 Old May 14th, 2008, 9:20 am
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Smile Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveDragon
Here's an interesting read on the topic:
http://www.freethoughtpedia.com/wiki..._A_Christian?a
Dave,
This argument has been going on for thousands of years.
For every web site you can find supporting you position and can find one supporting mine. i.e. http://www.som.yale.edu/faculty/jjc83/whychrist.html

Like I said before I have been on both sides of this issue.
In case anyone is interested here is a link to my church home.
http://www.eastminster.org/

Now back to BMW's!!!! As soon as I get the yard mowed I will take a short ride!

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post #35 of 75 Old May 14th, 2008, 9:37 am
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Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveDragon
I didn't state it was my position, only that it's an interesting read on the topic, that I'm sure you didn't bother to read.
Dave,
Yes I did read it!
Please excuse me for for jumping to any conclusions.
Norris
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post #36 of 75 Old May 14th, 2008, 10:12 am Thread Starter
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Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

Quote:
Originally Posted by norriscooper
Pål,
Thanks for showing us your collection of trolls, TWICE. Where did you get those little bitty fearsome dudes? Ebay! They sure look happy! Perhaps they are going for a ride with you today! They remind me of something we have over here, Hillary!

It's good to see your sense of humor coming back!

The word shoot was purposely chosen, I didn't think a pacifist would be willing to use a gun against someone exercising their right to free speech.
Ops, my mistake, not every one out there is a pacifist! I guess I better watch my six till this blows over!

Enjoy the morning,
Norris
The collection of trolls was some I found when I googled "Troll" images. We also have a huge oil platform named after these trolls. Actualy many norwegian oil rigs are named after northern mythology.

The Trolls is the number one thing the tourists buy as a token of their Norwegian visit and it is sold everywhere where you can find tourists.

Using a democrat presidentail candiate as beeing a Troll in quite funny especialy if you look at the current administration where about all and everyone have been trolling you pr. your definition of a troll.

The posting twice was not my intention, I think it was powerfull enough a it was to be posted once and most of it is direct pasting from Wikipeda.

The part around the workd "shoot" I dont get, I dont recall writing anything about that. And me beeing a pacifist is not right either, I do believe in defending myself and my interests as you see here and as you do but advocating pease and urging you to live by the roules of the book you follow as in the 10 comandments I must say I am baffeled at how easy the christians and other religions BRAKE them so easily.
That way I live more according to the ten commandments then you do or your fellow christians. I dont use the protection of a belief system as a goal to meet my desires.

One can have moral and be good without religion as time have shown us again and again.

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post #37 of 75 Old May 14th, 2008, 10:12 am
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Wink Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveDragon
WOW, you got your money's worth out of those Evelyn Wood Speed Reading tapes
No Dave, I just don't move my lips!

BTW there weren't any tapes when I learned to read!

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post #38 of 75 Old May 14th, 2008, 10:15 am
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Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveDragon
Here's an interesting read on the topic:
http://www.freethoughtpedia.com/wiki..._A_Christian?a
Yup.. BTDT... asked those same questions of BOTH sides....thanks for the refresher...

...............
J.M.J...
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post #39 of 75 Old May 14th, 2008, 11:20 am
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Smile Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

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Originally Posted by paalao
The part around the workd "shoot" I dont get, I dont recall writing anything about that. And me beeing a pacifist is not right either, I do believe in defending myself and my interests as you see here and as you do but advocating pease and urging you to live by the roules of the book you follow as in the 10 comandments I must say I am baffeled at how easy the christians and other religions BRAKE them so easily.
That way I live more according to the ten commandments then you do or your fellow christians. I dont use the protection of a belief system as a goal to meet my desires.
Pål,
Ken told me not to use the word "shoot". Since you shoot silver, I put two and two together. Now that I know your aren't a pacifist when you come visit me I will put on a kevlar vest!

You don't even believe in the Bible yet you use it as a moral compass. Interesting!

And Pål, thanks to you I now now more about trolls than I ever need to know. All this time I thought the came from Sweden! They even named a city after them, Trollhättan. Well you "shot" that belief right out of the water!

Do you ever ride?

Norris
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Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

Quote:
Originally Posted by norriscooper
**** I cannot save you, only God can do that!****
Cool, then since I don't believe that your god exists, we're done here. See how easy that is?

Quote:
To ward off the trolls you could always trust in Christianity: Church bells, a cross or even words like "Jesus" or "Christ" would work against them.
And now you have your defenses, too. Isn't it nice when it all works out such that everybody wins?

BTW Norris, nothing personal here. It's the endless proselytizing and rabid convert-them-at-all-costs attitude that I'm defending against, rather than any one individual. Most christians are actually very nice people once you get past all the rhetoric.

Ken
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post #41 of 75 Old May 14th, 2008, 11:41 am
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Thumbs up Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
Most christians are actually very nice people once you get past all the rhetoric.
Ken,
The converse is also true!

How about those trolls!

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post #42 of 75 Old May 14th, 2008, 12:26 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

Quote:
Originally Posted by norriscooper
Pål,
Ken told me not to use the word "shoot". Since you shoot silver, I put two and two together. Now that I know your aren't a pacifist when you come visit me I will put on a kevlar vest!

You don't even believe in the Bible yet you use it as a moral compass. Interesting!

And Pål, thanks to you I now now more about trolls than I ever need to know. All this time I thought the came from Sweden! They even named a city after them, Trollhättan. Well you "shot" that belief right out of the water!

Do you ever ride?

Norris
Actually Norris, I am a pretty good shot, or I was in the millitary.
No need for a kevlar, you would find me very polite and tame

No I dont use the bible as a moral compass, allthough I was force feed it during my first 9 years in school, I do have a notion of the 10 comandments and they are pretty much just desent behavior issues. And some egoism (Thou shall not have other Gods then me)

"Trollhättan`s moped" they use to say, knowing that the SAAB car factory is at that city and that SAAB use to make a small car that was just like a moped in engine size I think.

I am pretty fond of the "Sodoma and Gomorra" kind a pleasures though, anyone like that around your place ?

hehe

Here is a place in Norway called:

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post #43 of 75 Old May 14th, 2008, 1:24 pm
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Cool Einstein had trools as sex slaves

Quote:
Originally Posted by paalao
"Trollhättan`s moped" they use to say, knowing that the SAAB car factory is at that city and that SAAB use to make a small car that was just like a moped in engine size I think.

I am pretty fond of the "Sodoma and Gomorra" kind a pleasures though, anyone like that around your place ?
Pål,
I once owned a SAAB. I even know what it stands for. There was a Viggen at an airport 30 miles north of here!

As far as Sodoma and Gomorra, remember the thread about the CCR and sex slaves.
http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showthre...ghlight=slaves

Hell was also the name of the town in "High Plains Drifter".

Norris

Last edited by DaveDragon; May 14th, 2008 at 2:04 pm.
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post #44 of 75 Old May 14th, 2008, 1:58 pm
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Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
I have as much respect for Einstein's view on religeon, as I would any other pagan. I do, however, believe whole-heartedly that his view has changed quite a bit since his death.
Very funny, liked it alot

Rgds
Mike

"For those that know, no explanation is needed,
For those that don't, no explanation is possible."

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post #45 of 75 Old May 14th, 2008, 2:16 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

May I suggest

2003 K1200LTE Impala Brown
1991 Kawazaki 1000 LTD US 1983 (sold)
1987 Suzuki GSX 1100 1982 (sold)
1985 Suzuki GS 650 LTD 1982 (sold)
1979 3xKawazaki z 100 lt 1979 (sold)
1979 Vespa 50 Scooter 1968 (Given away)

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post #46 of 75 Old May 14th, 2008, 7:33 pm
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Thumbs up Old Fashoned Troll Control

Pål,

Here's the way we control Trolls in the Wild-Wild West!

Probably past your bedtime so I will chat with you in the morning!
Mowed the yard. Wife kicked me out of the house, forced me to go ride, it was cold a raining, such is life in the High Plains!

Norris
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post #47 of 75 Old May 15th, 2008, 1:50 am Thread Starter
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Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

Back here the ultra religiuos christians absolutely hate wepons and wont even have them in house. And absolutely not touch them.

I think that is a good attitude, knowing how irrtational they are!

Those ulrta religious who carries guns are considered to be fundamentalists.

Leads me to think about the different world we live in and the attitude behind it.

2003 K1200LTE Impala Brown
1991 Kawazaki 1000 LTD US 1983 (sold)
1987 Suzuki GSX 1100 1982 (sold)
1985 Suzuki GS 650 LTD 1982 (sold)
1979 3xKawazaki z 100 lt 1979 (sold)
1979 Vespa 50 Scooter 1968 (Given away)

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post #48 of 75 Old May 15th, 2008, 1:53 am Thread Starter
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Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

Back here the ultra religiuos christians absolutely hate wepons and wont even have them in house. And absolutely not touch them.

I think that is a good attitude, knowing how irrtational they are!

Those ulrta religious who carries guns are considered to be fundamentalists.

Leads me to think about the different world we live in and the attitude behind it.

Hehe I am thinking...kevlar!! Who need it more ?

2003 K1200LTE Impala Brown
1991 Kawazaki 1000 LTD US 1983 (sold)
1987 Suzuki GSX 1100 1982 (sold)
1985 Suzuki GS 650 LTD 1982 (sold)
1979 3xKawazaki z 100 lt 1979 (sold)
1979 Vespa 50 Scooter 1968 (Given away)

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post #49 of 75 Old May 15th, 2008, 7:23 am
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Re: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

Can we move Paaloo's Anti-Christian ramblings to this forum:

http://www.atheistagenda.org/bulletinboard

Or better yet Paaloo, post your bike related stuff here, your Anti-Christian stuff there, and what ever else you you like to debate will certainly have it's own site too. I really enjoy the occasional political or religious debate with fellow riders, but this is getting old.

I would not be surprised to learn that you do believe in most of the popular Anti-American conspiracy theories. For example:

Bush ordered the 911 events
The CIA killed JFK
The moon landing never happened
The US Government started AIDS

After all, one has to believe in something

Wolfgang

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post #50 of 75 Old May 15th, 2008, 7:49 am
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a

I agree with your statement... it's just hard to do when one gets under your skin. When I see Anti-Christian and Anti-American statements I find it difficult to ignore them.

And on a serious note: Lots of people ignored Hitlers Nazi movement until it was way too late.

Wolfgang

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