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post #1 of 21 Old Apr 29th, 2008, 2:55 pm Thread Starter
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Rove tells Obama how to beat Clinton

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...-beat-clinton/

WASHINGTON (CNN) – Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama is getting advice from an unlikely source: former top Bush aide Karl Rove.
(What? will he introduce Obama to his friends in Diebold)

Could it be becouse Hillary have told that she will research the Bush Governments "skelletons" in the closet?

Or that Rove is scared that the facts from these videos will come out and be debated without the Bush administrations censorship ?
Do watch the videos, you may learn something when you analyze what you are beeing shown.

http://www.rense.com/general22/911.htm

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...29448192753501

This last one tells a lot of stuff you may not have seen. I urge you to watch it.
And then watch this: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...59008768610598

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post #2 of 21 Old Apr 29th, 2008, 3:07 pm
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Re: Rove tells Obama how to beat Clinton

Frankly, I'd be more interested in your views on Norwegian politics than of American politics...

What goes on over there?


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post #3 of 21 Old Apr 29th, 2008, 3:32 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Rove tells Obama how to beat Clinton

So you did not bother watching the videos?



Sources for Norwegian news in english

http://www.aftenposten.no/english/

And here is a list of many more, enjoy

http://www.world-newspapers.com/norway.html

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post #4 of 21 Old Apr 29th, 2008, 3:45 pm
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Re: Rove tells Obama how to beat Clinton

I was hoping to re-direct you as your offering makes you look foolish.



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post #5 of 21 Old Apr 29th, 2008, 3:49 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Rove tells Obama how to beat Clinton

Quote:
Originally Posted by Briantime
I was hoping to re-direct you as your offering makes you look foolish.

LOL how do you come to that conclution?
What part was foolish? Or was it all?

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post #6 of 21 Old Apr 29th, 2008, 5:15 pm
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Re: Rove tells Obama how to beat Clinton

Quote:
Originally Posted by paalao
So you did not bother watching the videos?



Sources for Norwegian news in english

http://www.aftenposten.no/english/

And here is a list of many more, enjoy

http://www.world-newspapers.com/norway.html
I took a quick look at the Norwegian paper:

There is a total break-down of society happening in Norway, specifically Oslo right now. Crime is four times that of New York City! Police brutality is the order of the day as documented by a picture in the article. Racial hatred is on the rise since the crimes are commited by eastern europeans. Robberies are up 20% due to the social injustice of the capitalistic system in Norway.

You see Paaloo what happens if I take a story that I really know nothing about and make assumptions? This is exactly the way US news is often presented in my birth country, Germany and from your ramblings here I assume in Norway too. Now, if I read a few more Norwegian articles with this mindset what image will I have of your country?

I can hardly wait for your response...

All of the above statements can be verified by reading this article

http://www.aftenposten.no/english/lo...cle2299327.ece

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post #7 of 21 Old Apr 29th, 2008, 5:38 pm
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Re: Rove tells Obama how to beat Clinton

One side of me says it is the usual hacked together, out of context, non-sequiturs and hasty generalizations.

The other says if it walks like a duck...

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post #8 of 21 Old Apr 29th, 2008, 5:43 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Rove tells Obama how to beat Clinton

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang
I took a quick look at the Norwegian paper:

There is a total break-down of society happening in Norway, specifically Oslo right now. Crime is four times that of New York City! Police brutality is the order of the day as documented by a picture in the article. Racial hatred is on the rise since the crimes are commited by eastern europeans. Robberies are up 20% due to the social injustice of the capitalistic system in Norway.

You see Paaloo what happens if I take a story that I really know nothing about and make assumptions? This is exactly the way US news is often presented in my birth country, Germany and from your ramblings here I assume in Norway too. Now, if I read a few more Norwegian articles with this mindset what image will I have of your country?

I can hardly wait for your response...

All of the above statements can be verified by reading this article

http://www.aftenposten.no/english/lo...cle2299327.ece
Yes so it says in percentage pr 1000

"Oslo had the highest rate per person in Scandinavia in terms of reported crimes, with 90 reported crimes per 1,000.

Copenhagen had 50 crimes reported per 1,000 and Stockholm had 79.

In New York, there were 22 reported crimes per 1,000 inhabitants.

This means there were four times as many reported crimes per person in Oslo as in New York."

You ASSUME that is police brutality but it does not state that in the article. What`s the matter? was it not dramatic enough for you so you had to add some to it?

The prosparity og the country and police who does not carry guns while the "poor" government cant get more policemen becouse they pay so poorely is a good reason why so many "eastern europeans" love beeing here to do their bad stuff.

And you say racial hatred is on the rice!!?? Where does it say that in the article?
Seems to me my Dear Wolfgang that living in texas have made you into a pure bread republican, we all know how they fantazise and make up stories to sell their agenda!!

And then you claim that this "due to the social injustice of the capitalistic system in Norway" The article does not say anything about that either.

I am thinking..COME ON get a grip, telling lies and making up things as you go is not only stupid, it is your kind a credebility at stake here and so far you show non...like the rest of the Bush and goplings and those who follow suit to the stories told.


And finnally you said "I can hardly wait for your response... " and I keep thinking...are you happy now that I responded and cought your "story making scam?


For those of you who read this can simply read the article and see for yourself does it say what Wolfgang is saying?

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post #9 of 21 Old Apr 29th, 2008, 5:53 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Rove tells Obama how to beat Clinton

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveDragon
I completely disagree with your assessment.

Did YOU watch the Video, all 1 hour & 29 minutes of it?

I did.
Thank you dave, imagine if the GOPlings actualy did watch these movies instead of just badmouthing it for what they think it is.

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post #10 of 21 Old Apr 29th, 2008, 5:55 pm
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Re: Rove tells Obama how to beat Clinton

You did not get the point:

I took some statements and presented them in the worst possible light and made assumptions that to the casual observer make sense.

That is the way much of the news about the US is presented by the european media. To see an example read the leading German Magazin "Der Spiegel" on line in english.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/

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post #11 of 21 Old Apr 29th, 2008, 6:03 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Rove tells Obama how to beat Clinton

All papers make some stupid headlines now and then, to grab your attention.
then most explain what they mean in the article that follows, as they do there.

Wolfgang , I hope I missed your point because if your point was what I there thought it was, then you must agree that It did not pan out that good for you..

If In fact I misunderstood this, then i am sorry and apologize .

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post #12 of 21 Old Apr 29th, 2008, 6:42 pm
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Re: Rove tells Obama how to beat Clinton

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveDragon
I completely disagree with your assessment.

Did YOU watch the Video, all 1 hour & 29 minutes of it?

I did.
I also have watched 3 of the iterations of loose change. While it certainly raises some questions, it also makes plenty of assertions that are at least questionable if not completely false. Since we have absolutely no reason to trust our government, the valid questions raised in the documentary certainly deserve investigation, but it is a shame it is also loaded with so many misrepresentations.

Here is link to a large Word document that takes the time to deconstruct the Loose Change movie.

http://www.ccdominoes.com/lc/911_loo..._2_guide_1.doc

And a blog that deserves a look as well.

http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/

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post #13 of 21 Old Apr 29th, 2008, 9:37 pm
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Re: Rove tells Obama how to beat Clinton

Quote:
Originally Posted by paalao
All papers make some stupid headlines now and then, to grab your attention.
then most explain what they mean in the article that follows, as they do there.

Wolfgang , I hope I missed your point because if your point was what I there thought it was, then you must agree that It did not pan out that good for you..

If In fact I misunderstood this, then i am sorry and apologize .
Paalo,

You have to be careful with Wolfgang. He knows both life at both sides of the atlantic. He grew up a few hundred miles north of where I grew up and we both ended up in Houston. There is something to say about each side of the atlantic trying to spin the news 'their way'. Neither one is correct and neither one is wrong.

I know Wolfgang reads commentary from the right and the left side and then comes up with a MUCH better informed opinion that the average US or EU resident. Having lived and worked on both sides AND in both cultures does that to you.

Now, to paraphrase a friend of mine: They all serve Cool-Aid. One serves red cool-aid and the others serve blue cool-aid. But in the end it's still cool-aid. Neither one is better or right or wrong. And that extends not only to the current presidential candidates (which are portrait 'slightly' out of context in various EU media) but also to all the other sensitive areas. The gulf war to name one, or the intervention in Afghanistan, the french politics (which are blown out of proportion on this side of the pond) and the list goes on.

My suggestion: You have a somewhat unique ability, which many many Eu citizens lack, and that is to be able to communicate in a foreign language, in a way that you can make abstract thoughts known.

Use that ability and read and understand BOTH sides. You said you lived in the US for a while. Then you should be able to understand where some of the US based opinions (right or wrong) come from. Read the Norwegian, the British and the US press and then come up with YOUR OPINION instead of regurgitating what has been said on national TV in Norway. As Wolfgang showed you one can always take something out of context and present it a completely different light. (blue cool-aid)

The folks on this side of the pond have to try to come up with some of their own on reality based opinions as well. Because sometimes I can only shake my head at the red cool-aid and think to myself: "But of course, if you don't know it better you would believe that"

And everyone who thinks they can get an objective opinion from watching only one side is just another cousin Beaudraux. That applies left and right of the pond.
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post #14 of 21 Old Apr 29th, 2008, 10:01 pm
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Re: Rove tells Obama how to beat Clinton

To quote the famous astronaut, Gus Grissom... Fuckin' Aye, Bubba!

By the way, who are you, and where have you hidden our admin, Andy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy
Paalo,

You have to be careful with Wolfgang. He knows both life at both sides of the atlantic. He grew up a few hundred miles north of where I grew up and we both ended up in Houston. There is something to say about each side of the atlantic trying to spin the news 'their way'. Neither one is correct and neither one is wrong.

I know Wolfgang reads commentary from the right and the left side and then comes up with a MUCH better informed opinion that the average US or EU resident. Having lived and worked on both sides AND in both cultures does that to you.

Now, to paraphrase a friend of mine: They all serve Cool-Aid. One serves red cool-aid and the others serve blue cool-aid. But in the end it's still cool-aid. Neither one is better or right or wrong. And that extends not only to the current presidential candidates (which are portrait 'slightly' out of context in various EU media) but also to all the other sensitive areas. The gulf war to name one, or the intervention in Afghanistan, the french politics (which are blown out of proportion on this side of the pond) and the list goes on.

My suggestion: You have a somewhat unique ability, which many many Eu citizens lack, and that is to be able to communicate in a foreign language, in a way that you can make abstract thoughts known.

Use that ability and read and understand BOTH sides. You said you lived in the US for a while. Then you should be able to understand where some of the US based opinions (right or wrong) come from. Read the Norwegian, the British and the US press and then come up with YOUR OPINION instead of regurgitating what has been said on national TV in Norway. As Wolfgang showed you one can always take something out of context and present it a completely different light. (blue cool-aid)

The folks on this side of the pond have to try to come up with some of their own on reality based opinions as well. Because sometimes I can only shake my head at the red cool-aid and think to myself: "But of course, if you don't know it better you would believe that"

And everyone who thinks they can get an objective opinion from watching only one side is just another cousin Beaudraux. That applies left and right of the pond.


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post #15 of 21 Old Apr 29th, 2008, 10:08 pm
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Re: Rove tells Obama how to beat Clinton

On the other hand I am interested in how others view and judge American Politics. We share the same planet with others. Definitely, we may have common interests and goals such as limiting global warming and pollution.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Briantime
Frankly, I'd be more interested in your views on Norwegian politics than of American politics...

What goes on over there?

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post #16 of 21 Old Apr 30th, 2008, 4:12 am Thread Starter
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Re: Rove tells Obama how to beat Clinton

Paalo,

You have to be careful with Wolfgang. He knows both life at both sides of the atlantic. He grew up a few hundred miles north of where I grew up and we both ended up in Houston. There is something to say about each side of the atlantic trying to spin the news 'their way'. Neither one is correct and neither one is wrong.

Andy, as do I! I also read news in many languages from may different sources. I also follow many fact based sites, including bushwatch.com and I also follow the Israel / Palestine conflict and the ties it have with the USA+ the UN, which by some strange reasoning is looked upon by the USA as a competitor instead of what the purpose is. When the USA appointed Bolton, one of the worst persons possible to the job of US ambassador to the UN, It kind a told a major story, especially with the spin the US side had on it which have absolutely no credibility at all.
Andy, If I have one special gift than that gift is analyzing, analyzing information given and what is meant by reading in between the lines. That way I also sometimes work as a coach for coaches.


I know Wolfgang reads commentary from the right and the left side and then comes up with a MUCH better informed opinion that the average US or EU resident. Having lived and worked on both sides AND in both cultures does that to you.

Then I will say that we are two, but having seen some of his comments as he have seen mine, we obviously have a different view on things and I am quite safe to say that Wolfgang look upon these issues with a republican mindset. And I am looking at it from a liberal socialist mindset. I absolutely load the spin of that the republicans always come with, like I responded with to Wolfgang, but there it seems I was to hasty and not getting his point witch I later apologized for. And as you say, I have also lived on both sides and cultures.

Now, to paraphrase a friend of mine: They all serve Cool-Aid. One serves red cool-aid and the others serve blue cool-aid. But in the end it's still cool-aid. Neither one is better or right or wrong. And that extends not only to the current presidential candidates (which are portrait 'slightly' out of context in various EU media) but also to all the other sensitive areas. The gulf war to name one, or the intervention in Afghanistan, the french politics (which are blown out of proportion on this side of the pond) and the list goes on.

Yes it does, but it is really sad how brainwashed so many of the people on your side are. Even when there is massive proof of the Bush administration telling nothing but lies, and proof of election cheating etc, they still keep on ranting how great they are and how they are spreading democracy around the world. And when people like me and you know that the US democracy system is the worst of the whole civilized world it is kind a amazing what they keep pushing.
If anyone in modern time is gutless about standing up, it is the US Americans, just look at former communist Ukraine with general strikes when election cheating. Look at the French farmers and workers how they protest when the government make radical changes etc and look at the USA when they find out that the president have lied and given them wars that are illegal for monetary gain purposes. And what did the French do wrong? They did not support the war because they thought it was no wmd in Iraq, and guess what….. but still they keep getting the wrap for it. Stupid is what stupid does!


My suggestion: You have a somewhat unique ability, which many many Eu citizens lack, and that is to be able to communicate in a foreign language, in a way that you can make abstract thoughts known.

Use that ability and read and understand BOTH sides. You said you lived in the US for a while. Then you should be able to understand where some of the US based opinions (right or wrong) come from. Read the Norwegian, the British and the US press and then come up with YOUR OPINION instead of regurgitating what has been said on national TV in Norway. As Wolfgang showed you one can always take something out of context and present it a completely different light. (blue cool-aid)

As mentioned before I do that. What saddens me though is that you did not get that I did that before you wrote this. Although national TV in Norway is with its other news resources sharing the first place in the ranking of press freedom while Germany is on 7`th place and the USA is down at 48`th place just behind Nicaragua, it should still be regarded as a somewhat credible information provider! But I do go beyond that, far beyond that as you properly know by now and with my language skills that include 5 foreign languages I do get information from different mindsets.

The folks on this side of the pond have to try to come up with some of their own on reality based opinions as well. Because sometimes I can only shake my head at the red cool-aid and think to myself: "But of course, if you don't know it better you would believe that"

I buy that and use that in all my assessments, but if I point it out then I am either scuffed to member forums only or given a whopping because then I am anti American. In fact I like the USA a lot and it saddens me how ignorant so many people are, but what can we expect from a country who talk about freedom of speech but forget to look around if they deserve that high stand. Being on 48`th place on freedom of press is NOT something to be proud of. It is like the country is either brainwashed or censored for all news. Look at Fallujah where the USA did major war crimes and shot at everything that moved including women, children and dogs! Used illegal Phosphorous bombs
http://www.counterpunch.org/lindorff11162005.html and all only because the population took revenge on some Blackwater mercenaries which prior had murdered some innocent Iraqis! NON of what really happened there came out to the USA, the whole 500 000 city was totalled in massive bombings etc. Why have the USA denied that any soldiers of the USA can be tried in the war criminal tribune in Hague? Being the only “civilized” country which don’t recognize it, in fact Clinton was one of the advocates for that court! Why was Milosevic a war criminal and Bush is not? And why did the USA join in his prosecution there if not any Americans can be prosecuted there? Freedom of speech my ass! Land of the Braves…no comments!


And everyone who thinks they can get an objective opinion from watching only one side is just another cousin Beaudraux. That applies left and right of the pond.

I agree and again it saddens met hat you thought I was only one sided, hopefully you know better now 

Paalao/Paul/Pål

http://www.counterpunch.org/lindorff11162005.html
Pentagon Admits Using Phosphorous Bombs on Fallujah

By DAVE LINDORFF

What kind of country is this?

Not only does America use grotesque chemical weapons in its "War of Liberation"--in this case white phosphorus bombs that are as nasty as anything Saddam Hussein could have dreamt up, with the ability to eat their way into a body and liquefy flesh--but our shameless leaders, when caught in the act, try to lie their way out of their own atrocious behavior.

When an Italian documentary producer released a film exposing this war crime committed in the course of the destruction of Fallujah, the honchos at the Pentagon and the White House lied through their teeth, claiming that the scenes of cascading phosphorus bombs blanketing the city, incinerating fighters and civilians alike, which were depicted clearly in the film, were just flares being used for night lighting.

Read the story for more facts... The ASK yourself, WHO is the real terrorists?
And I am sitting on loads of information like that.

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post #17 of 21 Old Apr 30th, 2008, 7:22 am
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Re: Rove tells Obama how to beat Clinton

Sorry Beaudraux, Say, which color is the cool-aid in Norway?
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post #18 of 21 Old Apr 30th, 2008, 7:42 am
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Re: Rove tells Obama how to beat Clinton

Doesn't matter how many lauguages you read/write/speak. This Independent green kool-aid drinker only sees you spouting one view.

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post #19 of 21 Old Apr 30th, 2008, 9:02 am Thread Starter
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Re: Rove tells Obama how to beat Clinton

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanMartin
Doesn't matter how many lauguages you read/write/speak. This Independent green kool-aid drinker only sees you spouting one view.

dan

Does this mean that the US written article I reffered to about the massmurder and war crimes in Falluja in my last post, should also include one from the other side?

Ok here is it






As you see there is nothing there or it is sencored!


And my cool aid is blank in color, meaning I drink water and lots of it, aprox a gallon a day and even more on really hot days

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post #20 of 21 Old Apr 30th, 2008, 9:27 am
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Re: Rove tells Obama how to beat Clinton

Paalao,

I'm sick to death with your bashing of the USA and the American people, sorry we don't measure up to your standards and frankly don't give a shit.
I don't hear anyone here bashing any European country for their liberal socialist forms of government if thats what you want over there FINE, just don't think we're nuts because we don't want to pay over 50% of our wages to support those wonderful Socialist programs.

What really amazes me is that we keep trying to convince you that you are wrong. Why bother .... you'll never change your mind !!!!

I believe this is the greatest country in the world not because of it's government but because of the Spirit of it's People.

So take your Liberal, Socialist views and stick them!!!!

Pat Rourke
White Lake,MI.
2002 K1200 LTC, Champange

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post #21 of 21 Old Apr 30th, 2008, 10:18 am
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Re: Rove tells Obama how to beat Clinton

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoog62
The other says if it walks like a duck...
Hey! I was wondering where the duck suit went. I need to borrow it for ahwile, where can I pick it up?



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