Intelligent info on Polygamist Compound - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 33 Old Apr 15th, 2008, 9:44 pm Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Tuscola (S. of Abilene), TX, USA
Posts: 141
Intelligent info on Polygamist Compound

If any of you want to learn more than TV sound bites (and without all the emotional/opinionated/political/divisive language the subject evokes) about the people and events that led up to this tragedy, this is an excellent book, written by a down-to-earth guy from Utah. It is chilling. After reading it a few years ago, I wondered when this sad but inevitable ending would occur. I thought it would be much worse.

In case the link to B&N doesn't work the book is Under the Banner of Heaven.

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Und...0032808/?itm=2

'02 Silver R1150RT

Lynn
tumbleweed is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 33 Old Apr 15th, 2008, 9:49 pm
Cat Herder
 
andy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Posts: 5,852
Re: Intelligent info on Polygamist Compound

Well, it ended this time, but with all the religious nut cases out there it won't be the last. Hey put the guys responsible for that in jail and let the inmates know that they have some new child molesters to play with.

Justice WILL be served.
andy is offline  
post #3 of 33 Old Apr 17th, 2008, 7:23 am
Senior Member
 
MOSLEYDS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Posts: 995
Re: Intelligent info on Polygamist Compound

I hope the authorities stop making reference to religion, or polygamy and start referring to this group as nothing more than an organized group of pediphiles.

Don Mosley MSgt, USAF, Retired
Colorado Springs, CO
05 K1200LT, 06 F650GS

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MOSLEYDS is offline  
 
post #4 of 33 Old Apr 17th, 2008, 10:38 am
Lifetime Supporter
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA
Posts: 1,305
Re: Intelligent info on Polygamist Compound

Unfortunately, a very similar raid was conducted in Arizona, and the results were a disaster. For the State. This was back in 1953 and the public outcry at police sweeping into town and breaking up mothers and children, brothers and sisters pretty much resulted in the 'don't ask, don't tell' attitude towards polygamy in AZ that let it flourish. If I understand it correctly the Texas group was an offshoot of the bunch from Northern AZ headed by Warren Jeffs.

One difference I see is that the earlier raids were to fight the evils of polygamy, and current efforts are targeting child abuse. The pictures of hymn signing mothers being hauled off to jail by police with automatic weapons isn't going to make the prosecutor's job any easier.

Motor On ,/'


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jkersh1 is offline  
post #5 of 33 Old Apr 17th, 2008, 12:28 pm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Newark, CA, USA
Posts: 302
Re: Intelligent info on Polygamist Compound

Quote:
Originally Posted by MOSLEYDS
I hope the authorities stop making reference to religion, or polygamy and start referring to this group as nothing more than an organized group of pediphiles.
Are you referring to the Pope's visit or the compound in Texas?
CalLT is offline  
post #6 of 33 Old Apr 17th, 2008, 12:39 pm
Senior Member
 
MOSLEYDS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Posts: 995
Re: Intelligent info on Polygamist Compound

I don't have a problem with religion, or ploygamy for that matter, but this group in Texas is nothing more than a bunch of sexual perverts. I'm glad they have made the mistake of having some of the mothers talk to the media.
From these recent interviews, it's easy to see just how perverted this group is.

Don Mosley MSgt, USAF, Retired
Colorado Springs, CO
05 K1200LT, 06 F650GS

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MOSLEYDS is offline  
post #7 of 33 Old Apr 17th, 2008, 1:06 pm
Senior Member
 
cfell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Round Rock, TX, USA
Posts: 7,794
Clarification....

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalLT
Are you referring to the Pope's visit or the compound in Texas?
Cal.. that's not correct, sir. The Pope has in the past, and continues to, address the problem....

http://www.ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=87629 ---- Pope "Deeply Ashamed" of Priestly Abuse

http://www.ewtn.com/USPapalVisit08/index.asp for one source of the verbatim record...

http://www.uspapalvisit.org/ is another site...


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

For those interested, I paraphrase below..

On the plane ride to the US and in comments yesterday, Pope Benedict clearly stated that sexual abuse should never have been tolerated (a tolerance in large part due to the discovered individuals stating their repentance and being declared "healed" by the mental health community as well as threats of legal action by the homosexual agenda (ACLU, et al.)), and furthermore, shall be dealt with immediately so that anyone with these tendencies shall not be allowed in sacred ministry.

The Pope stated (I am still paraphrasing....) that the effort of discovering these "tendencies" shall begin before acceptance into "discernment" and be constantly evaluated through formation. Upon ordination, the process will continue and evolve as more is learned of this phenomenon of "pedophelia". He also stated that allegations must be addressed in an upfront manner as earlier Popes had demanded.

There is no way we can "undo" the past evil of the "Priest scandal"... but we should never forget the lessons of the past and put those lessons to good use in protecting children.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


There is no way we can "undo" the past evil of the "Texas compound" (unless you think the Waco-Branch Davidian's was the only acceptable way), if indeed there was "child abuse".

Just because you are raising your child different from what is "normal" by some "mental health" professionals' or government bureaucrat's standard, you are not necessarily committing an unconscionable sin. To some, sending their tender, precious children to the indoctrination camps of the Department of Education is a far worse fate.

...............
J.M.J...
Dcn Channing

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
cfell is offline  
post #8 of 33 Old Apr 17th, 2008, 1:37 pm
Senior Member
 
KMC1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SLC, UT, United States Of America
Posts: 2,337
Re: Intelligent info on Polygamist Compound

Quote:
Originally Posted by MOSLEYDS
I'm glad they have made the mistake of having some of the mothers talk to the media.
From these recent interviews, it's easy to see just how perverted this group is.
Don, do you have any links to these interviews? I'm interested to listen to / read them to get a better feel for the type of people they are.

So far all I've seen is that the men are still being forcibly detained within the compound, and the mothers have been sent back to be with them while the state moves to secure "legal" custody of the children. All the info I've seen so far has been VERY distraught mothers wanting to be with their children who are being sequestered from their families, physically and psychologically "examined by experts" and held against their will. As far as I know, there has not been ANY evidence of abuse presented by the state, nor has the alleged caller been identified, nor have there been any arrests made to date related to any abuse. I would say that given enough time and enough different "experts" involved, that sooner or later they are going to have to trump up something to charge someone with - don't forget what all of these people involved make their living off of...
As an interesting side note, I also read that the adults video-taped the Police raid to document what was happening - and those tapes have been confiscated by.... the Police.....
It's just plain scary to see a Constitutional violation of this magnitude happening and there being almost ZERO response from the Mainstream Media, or the public at large.

R1200GSA Hi Ho, Hi Ho, It's off to Alaska I go!
(Down to ONE BIKE - ARGH!)
KMC1 is offline  
post #9 of 33 Old Apr 17th, 2008, 1:53 pm
Senior Member
 
MOSLEYDS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Posts: 995
Re: Intelligent info on Polygamist Compound

Quote:
Originally Posted by KMC1
Don, do you have any links to these interviews? I'm interested to listen to / read them to get a better feel for the type of people they are.

So far all I've seen is that the men are still being forcibly detained within the compound, and the mothers have been sent back to be with them while the state moves to secure "legal" custody of the children. All the info I've seen so far has been VERY distraught mothers wanting to be with their children who are being sequestered from their families, physically and psychologically "examined by experts" and held against their will. As far as I know, there has not been ANY evidence of abuse presented by the state, nor has the alleged caller been identified, nor have there been any arrests made to date related to any abuse. I would say that given enough time and enough different "experts" involved, that sooner or later they are going to have to trump up something to charge someone with - don't forget what all of these people involved make their living off of...
As an interesting side note, I also read that the adults video-taped the Police raid to document what was happening - and those tapes have been confiscated by.... the Police.....
It's just plain scary to see a Constitutional violation of this magnitude happening and there being almost ZERO response from the Mainstream Media, or the public at large.
Video of the mothers and children bording busses at the compound has been shown on the news, many times. It was orderly and did not show any mistreatment by authorities. It's going to be interesting to see how the court hearings go.

Don Mosley MSgt, USAF, Retired
Colorado Springs, CO
05 K1200LT, 06 F650GS

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MOSLEYDS is offline  
post #10 of 33 Old Apr 17th, 2008, 2:57 pm
Senior Member
 
Bobnoxous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 783
Re: Intelligent info on Polygamist Compound

Quote:
Originally Posted by MOSLEYDS
Video of the mothers and children bording busses at the compound has been shown on the news, many times. It was orderly and did not show any mistreatment by authorities. It's going to be interesting to see how the court hearings go.
That's right. As long as you do what you're told, everything will go orderly and you won't be shot. Where's the violence?

I don't know what the right way to handle parent's not raising their kids as we see fit. On the one hand, the child is almost helpless, and needs protection from abusive parents. On the other, who decides what's acceptable? Most could agree marrying daughters at 7 is bad, but what about 14? My daughter was way too immature to be married at 14 (she's 20 and still pretty immature, IMHO, but I'm old), but in some cultures, you're an adult at 14, and you've matured accordingly. A lot of what we think of as right and wrong is not absolute at all, but a cultural thing, and it's hard to let go of that.

I believe it's not right for people to force others to live by their values. Everyone has a right to live by their own values, as long as they don't infringe on the rights of others. That's the principle. How this affects the right to raise your children as you see fit, I'm not sure. It just doesn't seem possible to start down this road a little bit. We always take the 1st step with the noblest of intentions (not that this is the 1st step, of course), and end up being subjugated. "Think of the children" is the battle cry of every oppresive law, and I just don't know how to handle it.

But seeing the statement that there was no apparent mistreatment made me want to clarify the issue. Mistreatment is a subjective test. If they're really bad people, you might be able to justify shooting them, and that's not mistreatment. What's more definitive is whether force was used, and clearly there was, as any enforcement action must have.

When a government takes over a people’s economic life it becomes absolute, and when it has become absolute it destroys the arts, the minds, the liberties and the meaning of the people it governs.
- Maxwell Anderson

Bob
2007 K1200GT
Bobnoxous is offline  
post #11 of 33 Old Apr 17th, 2008, 3:09 pm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Newark, CA, USA
Posts: 302
Re: Intelligent info on Polygamist Compound

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobnoxous
That's right. As long as you do what you're told, everything will go orderly and you won't be shot. Where's the violence?

I don't know what the right way to handle parent's not raising their kids as we see fit. On the one hand, the child is almost helpless, and needs protection from abusive parents. On the other, who decides what's acceptable? Most could agree marrying daughters at 7 is bad, but what about 14? My daughter was way too immature to be married at 14 (she's 20 and still pretty immature, IMHO, but I'm old), but in some cultures, you're an adult at 14, and you've matured accordingly. A lot of what we think of as right and wrong is not absolute at all, but a cultural thing, and it's hard to let go of that.

I believe it's not right for people to force others to live by their values. Everyone has a right to live by their own values, as long as they don't infringe on the rights of others. That's the principle. How this affects the right to raise your children as you see fit, I'm not sure. It just doesn't seem possible to start down this road a little bit. We always take the 1st step with the noblest of intentions (not that this is the 1st step, of course), and end up being subjugated. "Think of the children" is the battle cry of every oppresive law, and I just don't know how to handle it.

But seeing the statement that there was no apparent mistreatment made me want to clarify the issue. Mistreatment is a subjective test. If they're really bad people, you might be able to justify shooting them, and that's not mistreatment. What's more definitive is whether force was used, and clearly there was, as any enforcement action must have.
EXCELLENT post. I agree 100 percent.

Consider the view those outside the U.S. have of OUR parenting. We dose kids with sugar and caffeine, to the point that they are obese and suffering from attention deficit. Plop them in front of TV where they are exposed to hours of unsupervised sex and violence. Let them fend for themselves in a substandard education system ... heaven forbid we'd every take an active role in their learning and moral development.

And then we send in SWAT when someone tries something different.

I agree fully that sexual exploitation should be universally banned. But I also get the feeling that is not what is at the root of this particular police raid.
CalLT is offline  
post #12 of 33 Old Apr 17th, 2008, 3:52 pm
Senior Member
 
MOSLEYDS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Posts: 995
Re: Intelligent info on Polygamist Compound

I doubt this cult was forced to move to Texas. By moving to Texas, they have put themselves in a position to come under the laws of Texas. It apparently is illegal in Texas to marry or have sex with a child under the age of 14 or 15. It is also illegal to have multible spouses at one time. These laws came about by a democratic process. Not by the decree of, say, a dictator. You seem to have forgotten that the government in Texas, or any other state in The United States is the people of that state, not some seperate entity.

Also, how can someone compare giving your 14 year old daughter a coke to
giving her to a 50 year old man to have sex with along with his 3 other 14 year old wives.

Don Mosley MSgt, USAF, Retired
Colorado Springs, CO
05 K1200LT, 06 F650GS

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MOSLEYDS is offline  
post #13 of 33 Old Apr 17th, 2008, 4:11 pm
Senior Member
 
Bobnoxous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 783
Re: Intelligent info on Polygamist Compound

Quote:
Originally Posted by MOSLEYDS
I doubt this cult was forced to move to Texas. By moving to Texas, they have put themselves in a position to come under the laws of Texas. It apparently is illegal in Texas to marry or have sex with a child under the age of 14 or 15. It is also illegal to have multible spouses at one time. These laws came about by a democratic process. Not by the decree of, say, a dictator. You seem to have forgotten that the government in Texas, or any other state in The United States is the people of that state, not some seperate entity.

Also, how can someone compare giving your 14 year old daughter a coke to
giving her to a 50 year old man to have sex with along with his 3 other 14 year old wives.
Ah, yes, the legitimacy of democracy. Being violent against others is okay if you vote for it.

This is getting off the topic of this thread, but since you bring it up, we're partially a democracy, and partially a republic. We democratically elect the politicians, but we don't democratically vote on the laws they pass, not that I think it would be much better if we did.

If my neighbors and I vote to use my neighbors car so we can use it to carpool to work, a noble cause, and that passes (my neighbor was the only one who voted against it for some reason, even though he's quite welcome to ride with us), then it's not theft, right? It's a democracy. If he resists, we're going to hire some muscle to enforce this new law that the democracy has demanded.

I know, I know, wrap the legal fiction of a government around the vote, and now it's not theft. Somehow, there's something magical about the idea of government that converts theft, oppression, violence, etc., to a noble will of the people, no matter what the people will. I wish I could bottle that.

When a government takes over a people’s economic life it becomes absolute, and when it has become absolute it destroys the arts, the minds, the liberties and the meaning of the people it governs.
- Maxwell Anderson

Bob
2007 K1200GT
Bobnoxous is offline  
post #14 of 33 Old Apr 17th, 2008, 4:23 pm
Senior Member
 
MOSLEYDS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Posts: 995
Re: Intelligent info on Polygamist Compound

Hey,
Like I said, if you live here, you by default, agree to abide by the law. Of course, you always have the right under the 2nd amedment to take your gun and try to set things right as you see it. I'm sure you'll die trying, but you have the right to try.

Don Mosley MSgt, USAF, Retired
Colorado Springs, CO
05 K1200LT, 06 F650GS

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MOSLEYDS is offline  
post #15 of 33 Old Apr 17th, 2008, 5:13 pm
Senior Member
 
cfell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Round Rock, TX, USA
Posts: 7,794
Re: Intelligent info on Polygamist Compound

Someone asked for locations of updates on the Texas Polygamy deal...a quick search revealed:
http://texaspolygamy.blogspot.com/20...as-issued.html

http://www.polygamy.com/

http://www.sltrib.com/News/ci_8823648

http://www.myfoxaustin.com/myfox/pag...Y&pageId=1.1.1

...............
J.M.J...
Dcn Channing

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
cfell is offline  
post #16 of 33 Old Apr 17th, 2008, 5:16 pm
Senior Member
 
Bobnoxous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 783
Re: Intelligent info on Polygamist Compound

Quote:
Originally Posted by MOSLEYDS
Hey,
Like I said, if you live here, you by default, agree to abide by the law. Of course, you always have the right under the 2nd amedment to take your gun and try to set things right as you see it. I'm sure you'll die trying, but you have the right to try.
I don't agree to abide by bad laws, only laws that I believe are just. And, I'm still living here. Bad laws get fixed because people disobey them. Sheep never change anything.

A lot of times I hear, when someone seems unable to justify their position logically I think, the standard "If you don't like it you can go somewhere else". Or, I can stay here and try to change things for the better, as I see it, the same way others try to do. Someday, I may decide to leave for greener pastures, but I feel a duty to people in this country to try and fix some of the wrongs that are happening to people around me. I don't plan to use the gun to do it. The government cannot really do much of anything very well, but force is the one thing they do seem able to do quite well. That's not an effective weapon.

I simply try and undo some of the programming that people have gone through; to make them question some of the things that they've never thought critically about before; things they accept blindly, and see if they're not being just a wee bit hypocritical. And when laws are passed that try to prevent me from doing this (corrupting our poor little children's minds, you know, with talk of freedom and agreements over violence, crazy things), I will break them. I have to be true to my beliefs.

But, some people absolutely do believe in might makes right, and while I think they're violent people, at least they're not hypocritical.

When a government takes over a people’s economic life it becomes absolute, and when it has become absolute it destroys the arts, the minds, the liberties and the meaning of the people it governs.
- Maxwell Anderson

Bob
2007 K1200GT
Bobnoxous is offline  
post #17 of 33 Old Apr 17th, 2008, 5:26 pm
Senior Member
 
MOSLEYDS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Posts: 995
Re: Intelligent info on Polygamist Compound

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobnoxous
I don't agree to abide by bad laws, only laws that I believe are just. And, I'm still living here. Bad laws get fixed because people disobey them. Sheep never change anything.

A lot of times I hear, when someone seems unable to justify their position logically I think, the standard "If you don't like it you can go somewhere else". Or, I can stay here and try to change things for the better, as I see it, the same way others try to do. Someday, I may decide to leave for greener pastures, but I feel a duty to people in this country to try and fix some of the wrongs that are happening to people around me. I don't plan to use the gun to do it. The government cannot really do much of anything very well, but force is the one thing they do seem able to do quite well. That's not an effective weapon.

I simply try and undo some of the programming that people have gone through; to make them question some of the things that they've never thought critically about before; things they accept blindly, and see if they're not being just a wee bit hypocritical. And when laws are passed that try to prevent me from doing this (corrupting our poor little children's minds, you know, with talk of freedom and agreements over violence, crazy things), I will break them. I have to be true to my beliefs.

But, some people absolutely do believe in might makes right, and while I think they're violent people, at least they're not hypocritical.
Do you really think that a law preventing a 50 year old man from collecting 14 year old "wives". is bad? Or a law protecting 14 year old females from grown men who think they have God's blessing to rape them is a bad law?

Are you a registered sex offender, or did you just not bother as you thouught that was a bad law too?

Don Mosley MSgt, USAF, Retired
Colorado Springs, CO
05 K1200LT, 06 F650GS

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MOSLEYDS is offline  
post #18 of 33 Old Apr 17th, 2008, 5:36 pm
Senior Member
 
Bobnoxous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 783
Re: Intelligent info on Polygamist Compound

Quote:
Originally Posted by MOSLEYDS
Do you really think that a law preventing a 50 year old man from collecting 14 year old "wives". is bad? Or a law protecting 14 year old females from grown men who think they have God's blessing to rape them is a bad law?

Are you a registered sex offender, or did you just not bother as you thouught that was a bad law too?
Yes, Don. That's exactly what I said. You cut through all my fluffy obfuscations and get right to the point. Good on ya.

Admins, please post a sign on my profile identifying me as an unregistered sex offender, and please keep your kids away. Give me a break.

At least the thread is moving back to the topic of the polygamist story (I won't even touch what I think about polygamy laws).

When a government takes over a people’s economic life it becomes absolute, and when it has become absolute it destroys the arts, the minds, the liberties and the meaning of the people it governs.
- Maxwell Anderson

Bob
2007 K1200GT
Bobnoxous is offline  
post #19 of 33 Old Apr 17th, 2008, 5:37 pm
Senior Member
 
MOSLEYDS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Posts: 995
Re: Intelligent info on Polygamist Compound

Thought so.

Don Mosley MSgt, USAF, Retired
Colorado Springs, CO
05 K1200LT, 06 F650GS

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MOSLEYDS is offline  
post #20 of 33 Old Apr 17th, 2008, 6:06 pm
Lifetime Supporter
 
DanMartin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Fulshear, TX, USA
Posts: 2,082
Re: Intelligent info on Polygamist Compound

Don, What you are missing is that all the comments are from you,texicans and that land way out west.

dan
DanMartin is offline  
post #21 of 33 Old Apr 17th, 2008, 6:27 pm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Newark, CA, USA
Posts: 302
Re: Intelligent info on Polygamist Compound

Quote:
Originally Posted by MOSLEYDS
Also, how can someone compare giving your 14 year old daughter a coke to giving her to a 50 year old man to have sex with along with his 3 other 14 year old wives.
If your point is: "Sure, we abuse our kids ... but at least we don't abuse them as badly as that cult in Texas," then I guess you've got a point.

My point is, all cultures and religions have sick little peculiarities that, when viewed from another culture, look downright barbaric. For instance, do you have a son? Did you have him circumcised?

We are not immune from justifiable ridicule here in the good ol' USA, as much as the flag wavers and the Bible thumpers try to deny it.
CalLT is offline  
post #22 of 33 Old Apr 17th, 2008, 6:29 pm
Senior Member
 
MOSLEYDS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Posts: 995
Re: Intelligent info on Polygamist Compound

I'm stuck at home recovering from a large open wound to my leg, so maybe I'm just spending too much time watching all this unfold on the news channels. I'd much rather be out on ride. Had 70 degree weather a couple days back.

I did get a kick out of that comedy show, I think it was a spoof on Democratic politics....no, it was a Clinton, Obamma debate.

Don Mosley MSgt, USAF, Retired
Colorado Springs, CO
05 K1200LT, 06 F650GS

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MOSLEYDS is offline  
post #23 of 33 Old Apr 17th, 2008, 6:38 pm
Senior Member
 
MOSLEYDS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Posts: 995
Re: Intelligent info on Polygamist Compound

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalLT
If your point is: "Sure, we abuse our kids ... but at least we don't abuse them as badly as that cult in Texas," then I guess you've got a point.

My point is, all cultures and religions have sick little peculiarities that, when viewed from another culture, look downright barbaric. For instance, do you have a son? Did you have him circumcised?

We are not immune from justifiable ridicule here in the good ol' USA, as much as the flag wavers and the Bible thumpers try to deny it.
Circumcised? Certainly not. Mutilating baby boys for no good medical reason is a most barbaric practice and should be outlawed.

Don Mosley MSgt, USAF, Retired
Colorado Springs, CO
05 K1200LT, 06 F650GS

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MOSLEYDS is offline  
post #24 of 33 Old Apr 17th, 2008, 7:02 pm
Cat Herder
 
andy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Posts: 5,852
Re: Intelligent info on Polygamist Compound

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobnoxous
Admins, please post a sign on my profile identifying me as an unregistered sex offender
DONE. Is that what you had in mind?
andy is offline  
post #25 of 33 Old Apr 17th, 2008, 7:04 pm
Senior Member
 
Bobnoxous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 783
Re: Intelligent info on Polygamist Compound

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy
DONE. Is that what you had in mind?
Ha! Yes, that's perrrrfect (said while twiddling thumbs).

When a government takes over a people’s economic life it becomes absolute, and when it has become absolute it destroys the arts, the minds, the liberties and the meaning of the people it governs.
- Maxwell Anderson

Bob
2007 K1200GT
Bobnoxous is offline  
post #26 of 33 Old Apr 17th, 2008, 10:27 pm
Senior Member
 
KMC1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SLC, UT, United States Of America
Posts: 2,337
Re: Intelligent info on Polygamist Compound

For the record, Bob, I really enjoy reading your posts. You really sound like an honest to goodness, levelheaded Yankee - Location notwithstanding... I understand and agree with the points you are trying to make.
I also don't agree with polygamy (I'm obligated to say that under pain of death Because I mean seriously, how many of us guys would NOT want 3 or 4 hot women for ourselves.... ) but on the other hand I really don't understand how or why anyone can feel as though it's their place to try to force people not to do it. It's not affecting anyone but them, it really seems like either a jealousy issue, or a religious issue. (meaning the Tejas Christian majority is pissed and is exacting "justice")
I also understand that there are laws on the books against it, although if that in itself is enough justification for anyone to be mollified by an entire community being torn apart and labelled child molesters, I question their intentions. If the impetus was to squelch polygamy, then by all means, that should have been the charges. So again, this seems to be a major Constitutional aberration so far.

Now, just one more thought here, and I hesitate to point this out... But in reference to Bob's point about cultural stigmas and acceptable practices... and given the fact that he still needs to register for sex offender status and I'm sure I'll have to join him now for pointing this out ....but wasn't the Prophet Mohammad married to a 7 year old???
Quote:
Aisha was six or seven years old when betrothed to Muhammad. She stayed in her parents' home until the age of nine, when the marriage was consummated in Medina
Didn't he also have approximately 13 wives? The Prohet Muhammad
And this is still a very common practice across the world today. Not to even get into arranged marriages in some other places Arranged Marriages and Dowry

Anyway, my point being that if the children really were being abused, I've yet to see evidence of it to justify this apparent miscarriage of justice.

I'm going to check out some of the links provided by Cfell to see what's on there - THANK YOU for the info Cfell.

R1200GSA Hi Ho, Hi Ho, It's off to Alaska I go!
(Down to ONE BIKE - ARGH!)
KMC1 is offline  
post #27 of 33 Old Apr 18th, 2008, 7:12 am
Senior Member
 
MOSLEYDS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Posts: 995
Re: Intelligent info on Polygamist Compound

Our local news, NEWS 13, Is reporting this AM that Texas Rangers are here in Colorado Springs, and have arrested a 30 year old woman whom they suspect of having made the initial call which caused the raid on the Texas polygamy compound. Seems this woman has a long history of prank 911 calls and false reporting. http://www.krdo.com/global/story.asp?s=8184795

Don Mosley MSgt, USAF, Retired
Colorado Springs, CO
05 K1200LT, 06 F650GS

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MOSLEYDS is offline  
post #28 of 33 Old Apr 18th, 2008, 11:37 am
Senior Member
 
Bobnoxous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 783
Re: Intelligent info on Polygamist Compound

Quote:
Originally Posted by KMC1
For the record, Bob, I really enjoy reading your posts. You really sound like an honest to goodness, levelheaded Yankee - Location notwithstanding... I understand and agree with the points you are trying to make.
Thanks Kevin. I've been called a lot of things, but it's been a long time since I was called a levelheaded Yankee.

I agree with you completely regarding polygamy. It's a morality law, which the government has no place in imposing. It ranks up there with gambling, prostitution, and a myriad of other "crimes" that are used to force one person's moral views onto another. It's violent, it's un-American, and I don't think it's what Jesus would do.

I have no interest in polygamy myself. It may start off nice, but most relationships do. Later, instead of one woman nagging at you when you get home, you'll have several. Yikes. Women are much better at manipulating men than the other way around. Multiple partners should be rented, not bought. JMHO.

That said, the most freedom-loving Libertarian has a hard time with where to draw the line on possible child abuse. What's abuse? Some would say teaching them the wrong religion or, aghast, no religion.

I don't know what the reality is in this story, yet. I know I won't learn anything by listening to talking heads all day making stuff up because they're too lazy and cheap to do any real investigative reporting. It was the same garbage with the Duke LaCrosse team charged with raping the stripper. They were the victims, but the talking heads lambasted them, and the DA was criminally hiding evidence that didn't support his "big case".

From Don's latest update, this case may be similar. We've only heard one side of the story. There are no "reps" from the polygamy group talking. The state hasn't made their case yet, but the court of popular opinion has them convicted. If the charge is horrific enough, you're guilty until proven innocent. That's not what this country is supposed to be about.

The DCS has a particularly bad history, and I distrust pretty much anything they say. People feel they are so necessary to protect children, but like any government organization, their top priority is CYA, which leads to a lot of bad results for the children. It's a tough job. When do you try and find evidence of abuse so you have cause to forcibly take children from their parents, and when do you take them first, without due process, to protect the child (although what DCS does with them afterwards is often worse than the situation they were removed from)? I don't know how to handle this, but I won't pretend that DCS is a good solution.

Gerhard, you make a good point about circumcision. I think a lot of people are recognizing there's little value in it. I'm sure it really pissed me off at the time. It is strictly a cultural/religious act that many cultures would find horrific. Now that I think about it, I want my foreskin back.

When a government takes over a people’s economic life it becomes absolute, and when it has become absolute it destroys the arts, the minds, the liberties and the meaning of the people it governs.
- Maxwell Anderson

Bob
2007 K1200GT
Bobnoxous is offline  
post #29 of 33 Old Apr 18th, 2008, 1:35 pm
Senior Member
 
hoog62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Orlando, FL, USA
Posts: 2,862
Re: Intelligent info on Polygamist Compound

Quote:
Originally Posted by MOSLEYDS
Our local news, NEWS 13, Is reporting this AM that Texas Rangers are here in Colorado Springs, and have arrested a 30 year old woman whom they suspect of having made the initial call which caused the raid on the Texas polygamy compound. Seems this woman has a long history of prank 911 calls and false reporting. http://www.krdo.com/global/story.asp?s=8184795
What's that do to their probable cause?

Dave Hoogerland

'08 Triumph Tiger 1050 ABS
'02 K1200LTC "The Silver Snoopy" (gone but not forgotten)
'08 Can-Am Spyder "???"

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
hoog62 is offline  
post #30 of 33 Old Apr 18th, 2008, 2:25 pm
Senior Member
 
KMC1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SLC, UT, United States Of America
Posts: 2,337
Re: Intelligent info on Polygamist Compound

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobnoxous
Now that I think about it, I want my foreskin back.

BOB YOU OWE ME A KEYBOARD!!!!

R1200GSA Hi Ho, Hi Ho, It's off to Alaska I go!
(Down to ONE BIKE - ARGH!)
KMC1 is offline  
post #31 of 33 Old Apr 18th, 2008, 3:37 pm
Senior Member
 
Bobnoxous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 783
Re: Intelligent info on Polygamist Compound

Quote:
Originally Posted by KMC1

BOB YOU OWE ME A KEYBOARD!!!!
Hey, you assumed the risk by reading it. I'm glad you got a chuckle, and you probably needed a new keyboard anyway.

When a government takes over a people’s economic life it becomes absolute, and when it has become absolute it destroys the arts, the minds, the liberties and the meaning of the people it governs.
- Maxwell Anderson

Bob
2007 K1200GT
Bobnoxous is offline  
post #32 of 33 Old Jun 2nd, 2008, 10:25 pm
Senior Member
 
KMC1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SLC, UT, United States Of America
Posts: 2,337
Re: Intelligent info on Polygamist Compound

Interesting update

Man, there are a GAGGLE of people who's heads are (hopefully) gonna role over this one....Rightfully so I say!

R1200GSA Hi Ho, Hi Ho, It's off to Alaska I go!
(Down to ONE BIKE - ARGH!)
KMC1 is offline  
post #33 of 33 Old Jun 3rd, 2008, 2:50 pm
Senior Member
 
Bobnoxous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 783
Re: Intelligent info on Polygamist Compound

Quote:
Originally Posted by KMC1
Interesting update

Man, there are a GAGGLE of people who's heads are (hopefully) gonna role over this one....Rightfully so I say!
The parent's cannot leave Texas? So they're prisoners of the state? That also seems illegal, but hey, that would be par for the course.

If you and I break the law, we go to jail. If you work for the state and break the law, you get a bad report in your file. In the end, they're state employees, and even if they acted very badly, unless they acted in a way unforeseeable for their job, the employer will be liable. These employees were following orders, and when following orders you get a "get out of jail free" card, except for maybe one sacrificial scapegoat. The false accusations will soon be forgotten. The people at the top will not be held accountable; they have too much power. Just like Abu Ghraib.

The state may pay some costs, but in the end, people had their lives turned upside down, they were threatened, families were ripped apart. They won't be compensated; and the bureaucrats will not be held accountable. Nothing positive will result.

I just depressed myself.

When a government takes over a people’s economic life it becomes absolute, and when it has become absolute it destroys the arts, the minds, the liberties and the meaning of the people it governs.
- Maxwell Anderson

Bob
2007 K1200GT
Bobnoxous is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the BMW Luxury Touring Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rather longish, but good tips & info! vvk Bike Talk 7 Jun 19th, 2011 4:43 pm
GS Info rcliffor GS Series 2 Mar 1st, 2008 2:16 pm
Tourist info, please. Dick Chit Chat 20 Mar 7th, 2007 8:37 am
Tourist info, please. Dick Central East 3 Mar 2nd, 2007 1:16 pm
VStream group buy price and ordering info! emsweeney Ergonomics & Rider Comfort 11 Aug 3rd, 2006 3:01 pm

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome