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post #1 of 28 Old Mar 21st, 2008, 6:40 pm Thread Starter
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An Inconvienent Truth or Al Gore's Lie????

http://www.uncommondescent.com/science/could-global-warming-have-an-upper-bound


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post #2 of 28 Old Mar 21st, 2008, 11:26 pm
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Re: An Inconvienent Truth or Al Gore's Lie????

great find.

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post #3 of 28 Old Mar 21st, 2008, 11:53 pm
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Re: An Inconvienent Truth or Al Gore's Lie????

Yet another "true believer" trying to wrap credibility around the idea of intelligent design by debunking the entire scientific community.

You can't prove the concept of intelligent design any more than you can prove the existence of god. You either believe or you don't. It's just that simple.

It's almost as bad as that guy who created his own "science museum" to prove that the earth is only as old as the bible says it is, and that even the dinosaurs were created by god and walked among men. That's not science, that's the Flintstones.

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All lower 48 states plus Alaska on the K13GT in two weeks . . .

Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #4 of 28 Old Mar 22nd, 2008, 5:39 am Thread Starter
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Re: An Inconvienent Truth or Al Gore's Lie????

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Originally Posted by meese
It's almost as bad as that guy who created his own "science museum" to prove that the earth is only as old as the bible says it is, and that even the dinosaurs were created by god and walked among men. That's not science, that's the Flintstones.
So, Ken, is the guy you mentioned above any more unscientific than Al Gore? If you accept the "facts" as presented by Gore, you are demonstrating greater faith than someone who believes in intelligent design. Talk about being in the Twilight Zone!


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post #5 of 28 Old Mar 22nd, 2008, 7:55 am
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Re: An Inconvienent Truth or Al Gore's Lie????

When Ken referred to debunking the entire scientific community, I believe he was talking about the Darwinists.

From the title I assumed your intent for this thread was about debunking man-made global warming. Gore's road show NEVER had the entire scientific community behind it not matter how many times he repeated it. It's all about money. You don't get funding by saying "all is well". Recently I had noticed the NBC evening news had some sort of global warming story every single night. Couldn't be because NBC is owned by GE, and GE stands to make a butt load of coin off of all the "green" technologies they're selling, could it?

Like the man said, follow the money.

“What this really does for us is allow us to cry wolf less,” said Mary Glackin, the highest-ranking nonpolitical appointee of NOAA. (after NOAA got a $200 million bump in funding) link

JunkScience.com

Edit to add: Gore hasn't lied about global warming any more than Bush lied about Iraq's WMD. Both "lies" were based on cherry picked data that supported their agenda. Think about it...

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post #6 of 28 Old Mar 22nd, 2008, 9:12 am
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Re: An Inconvienent Truth or Al Gore's Lie????

I would encourage you to read Michael Crichton's book "State of Fear"! I know it is fiction, but it will give a common sense view of all the hype. I see it as we are being "Played"! How else would the common man know about such things unless we are told, Then how would we believe other than who told us. Remember this is the man that invented the internet!

I believe that we live in a remarkable world, a place that has the ability to heal itself in many ways, from our abuse of it. After all how many atom & hydrogen bombs have been exploded over the years, and yet the earth is still inhabitable. But we are constantly told that life as we know it will be gone forever if someone drops the BOMB on us! So we spend billions on protecting ourselves from it happening.

Just imagine the monetary effects of just changing freon. everything we had is now obsolete, and the cost of changing all refrigerants. I wonder who profited from that?

Just my common .02 sense worth!

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post #7 of 28 Old Mar 22nd, 2008, 9:54 am
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Re: An Inconvienent Truth or Al Gore's Lie????

Awww, c'mon Ken.... I've shown you how the Catholic Church is VERY involved in "science".... and how it was a Catholic Priest who developed the Big Bang theory... and the Church did NOT excommunicate him... yeah... we are "stuck" ... speaking of stuck...

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post #8 of 28 Old Mar 23rd, 2008, 3:28 am
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Re: An Inconvienent Truth or Al Gore's Lie????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chick
So, Ken, is the guy you mentioned above any more unscientific than Al Gore? If you accept the "facts" as presented by Gore, you are demonstrating greater faith than someone who believes in intelligent design. Talk about being in the Twilight Zone!
Now there you go again, making assumptions about what I believe and who I follow. Just because I disagree with your opinion, that doesn't mean I'm automatically for the "other" side.

I never said I was Gore fanatic, no matter what he "invented." Then again, I've never said I supported Hillary either, even though some folks here always seem to choose the easy target. Easier than thinking for yourself, I guess.

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All lower 48 states plus Alaska on the K13GT in two weeks . . .

Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #9 of 28 Old Mar 23rd, 2008, 3:33 am
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Re: An Inconvienent Truth or Al Gore's Lie????

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Originally Posted by cfell
Awww, c'mon Ken.... I've shown you how the Catholic Church is VERY involved in "science".... and how it was a Catholic Priest who developed the Big Bang theory... and the Church did NOT excommunicate him... yeah... we are "stuck" ... speaking of stuck...
When it suits their agenda, of course. Makes it easier to twist things to your own predeterminations when you can claim a modicum of truth and "unbiased" research.

As for excommunications and the like, Science has always had to fight the church for the right to operate freely and without prejudice. Just look at Kepler, Gallileo, Newton, Da Vinci, etc. That stuff still goes on today, albeit a lot more carefully.

I still maintain that science is about exploring and explaining the world as we see and understand it with verifiable and repeatable methods, while religion is about providing a predetermined view of the world to the masses. Yes, both can be twisted to suit one's own purposes, but at the heart science is about seeking the truth, whereas religion is about providing their truth.

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All lower 48 states plus Alaska on the K13GT in two weeks . . .

Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #10 of 28 Old Mar 23rd, 2008, 5:25 pm
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Re: An Inconvienent Truth or Al Gore's Lie????

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Originally Posted by NOGILLS2
Remember this is the man that invented the internet!

Just my common .02 sense worth!

The only people that ever said Al Gore invented the internet were Republicans and their media lapdogs..

Al Gore said he was instrumental in creating the internet as we know it today. Which was absolutely true. He and a few other politicians, along with several scientists and colleges (the people that did invent the internet) worked together to pass the laws that allowed the internet to move from being available only to colleges and the government to being available to the common man and being able to advance to what we know today as the World Wide Web.



Apparently your sense isn't that common and probably not worth 2 cents.
But a little knowledge goes a long way in converting cents to sense.. try reading this. http://dir.salon.com/story/tech/col/...net/index.html
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post #11 of 28 Old Mar 23rd, 2008, 6:06 pm
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Re: An Inconvienent Truth or Al Gore's Lie????

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The only people that ever said Al Gore invented the internet were Republicans and their media lapdogs..

Now that's real funny.

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post #12 of 28 Old Mar 23rd, 2008, 7:08 pm
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Re: An Inconvienent Truth or Al Gore's Lie????

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Originally Posted by hig4s
The only people that ever said Al Gore invented the internet were Republicans and their media lapdogs...
Now there's no use throwing logic and facts at them, Al. You either believe what they do or else your wrong. That's much easier than trying to figure it out for yourself, anyway.

Ken
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All lower 48 states plus Alaska on the K13GT in two weeks . . .

Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #13 of 28 Old Mar 23rd, 2008, 7:22 pm Thread Starter
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Re: An Inconvienent Truth or Al Gore's Lie????

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Now there's no use throwing logic and facts at them, Al. You either believe what they do or else your wrong. That's much easier than trying to figure it out for yourself, anyway.
Logic and facts?


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post #14 of 28 Old Mar 23rd, 2008, 7:27 pm Thread Starter
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Re: An Inconvienent Truth or Al Gore's Lie????

Quote:
Originally Posted by hig4s
Apparently your sense isn't that common and probably not worth 2 cents.
But a little knowledge goes a long way in converting cents to sense.. try reading this. http://dir.salon.com/story/tech/col/...net/index.html
Salon???? Now there is an unbaised and common sense publication!


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post #15 of 28 Old Mar 23rd, 2008, 8:09 pm
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Re: An Inconvienent Truth or Al Gore's Lie????

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Originally Posted by meese
Now there's no use throwing logic and facts at them, Al. You either believe what they do or else your wrong. That's much easier than trying to figure it out for yourself, anyway.
Ken... "really"? amazing.

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post #16 of 28 Old Mar 23rd, 2008, 8:25 pm
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Re: An Inconvienent Truth or Al Gore's Lie????

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Originally Posted by Chick
Salon???? Now there is an unbaised and common sense publication!
And Uncommondescent.com isn't biased? Um, OK then.

Once again, the whole idea and philosophy of science is about striving to understand the world around us, whereas religion is purely about faith and therefore by definition unprovable. Some of us simply chose to follow what we can see, hear, taste, feel, and understand, rather than what someone simply told us was the truth a long time ago.

You'll never convince a non-believer unless they want to be convinced, and in return a true believer needs no convincing yet they cannot accept or understand any way other than their own without challenging the very core of their beliefs.

In the end, it always comes down to playing tic-tac-toe with equally stubborn opponents. It's always a draw, and both sides will walk away thinking that the other has lost.

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All lower 48 states plus Alaska on the K13GT in two weeks . . .

Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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Last edited by meese; Mar 23rd, 2008 at 8:46 pm.
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post #17 of 28 Old Mar 23rd, 2008, 8:53 pm
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Re: An Inconvienent Truth or Al Gore's Lie????

If you read my opening sentence:
"I would encourage you to read Michael Crichton's book "State of Fear"! I know it is fiction, but it will give a common sense view of all the hype."

My point is "HOW do we know? Who do we believe? Who do we trust? The whole thing has become a TOTAL Hype! How do we find it out for ourselves the answers."

Politicians want us to belive that we need change, and they are the perfect one to change the system for US. Can they actually change anything? Have any been trustworthy? Politicians stand at a podium and want to think for us, want credit for all the good and deny any wrong doing unless they get caught redhanded.

My Favorite is blaiming Bush for the war in IRAQ, when it took approval from Congress and HOR to begin the war in the begining, and to continue it.

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post #18 of 28 Old Mar 23rd, 2008, 9:20 pm
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Re: An Inconvienent Truth or Al Gore's Lie????

I've got a "change" for them. How about we tell the "guvamint" that "we the people" don't want what they have.

Back "in the day" people chose REPRESENTATIVES because it took so long to travel to the places where "the people's business" is done. Maybe we don't "need" that kind of "centralised" government... we can each spend a few hours a day managing our "business".

Wait... they are starting to censor the "college gossip websites"... ah well.. too bad... might have worked...

but then, we'd never be smart enough to settle the things that separate us....heck we can't even agree if pie-r-squared or pie-r-round.... Guess we'll need to trust in the professionals... like the Pie Princess!

Then again... we already have the different religions of Dem and Repub... with the "fringe" cults of Lib's, DOE (Department of re-Education/indoctrination), etc...

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post #19 of 28 Old Mar 24th, 2008, 10:42 am
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Re: An Inconvienent Truth or Al Gore's Lie????

Do you guys remember the apocalyptic "pseudo-documentaries" of the 70's? Movies like Culture Shock or those others they made me sit through during elementary and junior high school. All talked about how mankind would destroy the earth by the year 2000.

None of it happened.

While I believe it is the "right thing" to become more environmentally conscious, I don't believe that the direction of carbon taxes or offsets, or these other cockamamie ideas will do anything but polarize the debate and make it more difficult to actually make a difference.

With the price of oil rising over $100 (and headed toward $150), costs of producing energy ever-increasing, and alternatives becoming more and more attractive, the free market will eventually do the right thing. Why? Because it HAS to. Not because governments mandate it. Not because it's the right thing to do. The free market will always adjust when the cost of doing business the same way starts to fail. You are already seeing it. More and more is being spent on basic research for alternatives -- just look at the progress made by BMW and GM with Hydrogen technology. Every car manufacturer has a hybrid or high MPG offering. And the choices will get better.

Okay, back to the "science" behind An Inconvenient Truth... The Earth has a 100,000 year heating and cooling cycle. We are currently in a natural upswing in global temperatures. Remember, all it takes is one volcano (Pinotubo comes to mind right now) to pump in more greenhouse gases into the atmosphere then mankind has produced since the beginning of the mechanical age.

BTW, one of the interesting "facts" that the movie tries to use to shock you is that sea levels are expected to rise 16" over the next 100 years. Even if we parked every car, turned off every coal fire plant, and eliminated every carbon producing bit of machinery on the earth, the same report which is the premise of the movie estimates that sea level will still rise 13.5". The movie "conveniently" leaves that out.

I'd love to drive a hydrogen vehicle, free of emissions, assuming that the production of hydrogen can be done free of emissions as well. It would be great if we could produce enough wind and solar power to not need coal-fire plants. I'd even go for nuclear power if it could be done safely and the byproducts could be managed with a minimum of risk.

Anyone who actually takes the time to learn about the problem rather than just take a side based on blind political views, because someone told you, or "it's on the internet", will begin to understand that it's not about laws, mandates, offsets, taxes, etc. It is about doing the right thing because it makes sense and it makes CENTS. Green isn't going to be about being environmentally conscious -- it's about money. It's going to happen because it will make economic sense -- the And a guy like Al Gore spearheading the cause with hysterics like those in An Inconvenient Truth has done more to damage it than help.


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post #20 of 28 Old Mar 25th, 2008, 8:26 am
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Re: An Inconvienent Truth or Al Gore's Lie????

Can I get an "Amen!"?

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post #21 of 28 Old Mar 25th, 2008, 8:32 am
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Re: An Inconvienent Truth or Al Gore's Lie????

"Reefer Madness".....

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post #22 of 28 Old Mar 25th, 2008, 11:29 am
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Re: An Inconvienent Truth or Al Gore's Lie????

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
Yet another "true believer" trying to wrap credibility around the idea of intelligent design by debunking the entire scientific community.

You can't prove the concept of intelligent design any more than you can prove the existence of god. You either believe or you don't. It's just that simple.

It's almost as bad as that guy who created his own "science museum" to prove that the earth is only as old as the bible says it is, and that even the dinosaurs were created by god and walked among men. That's not science, that's the Flintstones.

Agree totaly

What a fantazy some people have even though there is loads and loads of evidence, some still choose to believe in this.
What is the oldest remains found of humans now...is the last one the one in Kenya which is estimated to have lived 156 thousand years ago? Kind a debunk the 6 thousand years theroy, does it not? Or maybe they dont belive science and evidence. I must say it is scary though, thinking that Iran have its fundamentalists..but people believing in intelligent design and the "other one" must be equally fundamentalists.

Anyway I guess this is not a forum for religion so I`d think this should be it as a responce from me to just that topic put forward!

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post #23 of 28 Old Mar 25th, 2008, 12:11 pm
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Re: An Inconvienent Truth or Al Gore's Lie????

It's no use, Paalao. If you truly believe then it all makes sense, but if you don't then it never will.

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All lower 48 states plus Alaska on the K13GT in two weeks . . .

Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #24 of 28 Old Mar 25th, 2008, 4:34 pm
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Re: An Inconvienent Truth or Al Gore's Lie????

Quote:
Originally Posted by paalao
Agree totaly

Religion = Power
Religion = Taming the masses
Religion = Brainwashing
Religion= If they belive these tails then we can also sell them anything we want like WMD in Iraq!
Religion= Tell the tale many enough times and people will start believing and then our aim is met...Total Power!


Thank you for bringing stating the obvious traits of religion. However, I would add that the Christianity has by far been the bloodiest religion of all and continues to be so.
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post #25 of 28 Old Mar 25th, 2008, 5:01 pm
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Re: An Inconvienent Truth or Al Gore's Lie????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oisin
Thank you for bringing stating the obvious traits of religion. However, I would add that the Christianity has by far been the bloodiest religion of all and continues to be so.
Oison-
The christians were brutal when everyone was the same.......

Apples to Oranges I say......how 'bout Militant Islam today????

Mike
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post #26 of 28 Old Mar 25th, 2008, 5:28 pm
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Re: An Inconvienent Truth or Al Gore's Lie????

My vote for the best statement in this thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
In the end, it always comes down to playing tic-tac-toe with equally stubborn opponents. It's always a draw, and both sides will walk away thinking that the other has lost.

Randy Prade
Aurora, CO

Just ride it!
Meet Riley

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post #27 of 28 Old Mar 25th, 2008, 8:46 pm Thread Starter
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Re: An Inconvienent Truth or Al Gore's Lie????

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
It's no use, Paalao. If you truly believe then it all makes sense, but if you don't then it never will.
Amen, Ken, Amen!!!

Psalm 14:1


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2005 Graphite LT


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post #28 of 28 Old Mar 25th, 2008, 9:51 pm
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Re: An Inconvienent Truth or Al Gore's Lie????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chick
Amen, Ken, Amen!!!

Psalm 14:1
"It's always a draw, and both sides will walk away thinking that the other has lost."

Ken
Pacific NorthWet
'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles and counting...
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles miles and counting...
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#143, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032


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All lower 48 states plus Alaska on the K13GT in two weeks . . .

Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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