"New" Classifieds - Pro or Con? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 37 Old Feb 16th, 2008, 10:12 am Thread Starter
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"New" Classifieds - Pro or Con?

Hi guys,

Haven't really seen any post that tried to discuss the pros and cons of the new Classified section since it changed. Wondered what everyone thinks.

I like the new pics and descriptions, but I miss just being able to look there and see whats newly listed in a short listing. There are bikes still on there from the middle of December 07. That used to be one of the first places I went when I came here, but I kind of find it cumbersome to use and often don't even look there anymore.

Don't get me wrong, the guys that run this forum do a fantastic job and just thought getting some thoughts out there on how well its being received at this point might help them with a direction.

Carl

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post #2 of 37 Old Feb 16th, 2008, 12:20 pm
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Re: "New" Classifieds - Pro or Con?

We discussed this at at our last RTE up here in the NW. It was a general concensus that the new classified section is getting much less use among us. We also felt it was harder to use and view. I am reserving judgement until I get used to it. People normally do not like change.

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post #3 of 37 Old Feb 16th, 2008, 1:05 pm
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Thumbs down Re: "New" Classifieds - Pro or Con?

Stroll over to http://www.bmwmoa.org and check out the flea market there. MUCH better than the classifieds here...

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post #4 of 37 Old Feb 16th, 2008, 1:10 pm
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Re: "New" Classifieds - Pro or Con?

If you click on the classified, the pictures that are shown are the most recent adds. At least you can tell if there is something new.

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post #5 of 37 Old Feb 16th, 2008, 2:52 pm
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Thumbs down Re: "New" Classifieds - Pro or Con?

My opinion? The "New" Classifiedssuck! I never view them anymore. Ever.
That's probably good news for some. I was pretty good at sniping the new listings.
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post #6 of 37 Old Feb 16th, 2008, 4:20 pm
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Re: "New" Classifieds - Pro or Con?

Hmmm, I get to say something. Let's look into how this site came to be, and how what our thought(s) are.

In 1999 when the LT came to the US a few friends found each other, back then on the long defunct 'epions' web site, which was later bought and operated by yahoo. Back these yahoo was a decent vehicle for a small, close knit community of only a few. Then, when yahoo started to overcommercialize and started to become unreliable in their service (you always get what you pay for) a few of us decided we did not want to deal with unreliable service, ads on every page, SLOW distribution and so on. So we decided to set up a web site of our own, install our own forum software on OUR server, manage it ourselves. On top of all that yahoo was starting to delete historical content, so the descision was actually quite easy.

But even so, even though everything was clearly pointing into the direction of abandoning yahoo, there were a NUMBER of folks who back then *violently* were against the change, opposed the 'split' of the community, and were pretty impossible to persuade that we are doing what we are doing because ini the long run it will be better for the community rather than staying with crappy (but known) service.

Was the new interface different? You bet is was. Were there new and cool features? Against, you bet there were. Were there 'features' missing from what the folks were used to on the old yahoo site? Yes, there were. Looking back I don't believe there is a single person left who was with the community back then and is still here today who still believes it would have been better to stay with the yahoo groups service.

Similar now with the classifieds. The 'old classifieds', were just a forum as all the other forums, just named classifieds. This created a number of headaches for the maintainers and the moderators of the classifieds, as well as problems in format, ... Since everythign was free format the classifieds were much too often also being used for general discussions rather than for their intended purpose.

All these problems brought forward the thoughts of how we can make it better. Better for our members, and better for the maintainers. Better for the members in a way that the current classifieds have categories, allow photo upload MUCH easier, the ads can easily be inserted and taken out , they have all a common look and feel, you are being asked for the relevant data, so you don't forget it and a number of other features one would expect from classifieds. Could they be better? Do they still leave room for improvement? You betcha, and sure! Are they DIFFERENT from what the folks are used to? YES. Yet we, as in the maintainers and moderators of the site believe they deliver a greater value because of all the integrated features.

They are different, they will get better as the program get s better over time, BO they will not be in the standard view of "What's new", just as your classifieds in your Sunday paper are not on the front page either. If you look for something you know where to look for, and then all the additional features are weighing much heavier than having the ad for a bike interspersed with the latest oil- thread.

Are we going to go back? HIGHLY unlikely. Are we going to install new versions as they emerge? Of course we will, and then the service will be even better.

I hope this helps making friends with the classifieds as they are. *IF* OTOH you know of a better product that integrates seemlessly with our user DB, and with our LNF then by all means speak up. Let us know. If there is something better out there I'd be more than willing to look into it. But save the comments "Why can't we just go back?" or "Why did we change in the first place"
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post #7 of 37 Old Feb 16th, 2008, 4:37 pm Thread Starter
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Re: "New" Classifieds - Pro or Con?

Andy,

Thanks for replying on this. My intention was to get some kind of discussion going as to a direction. I know the previous version was pretty limited in what you could do with it. There are some really nice features with the new version, but the upfront view of it when you come on the site needs some tweaking (IMHO). But again that's just my opinion.

Before I could just scroll down and see pretty quickly if anything was new. Maybe something like a counter that would show how many new ads or posts since last looked at or something like that along side the Classifieds heading would work. Since you guys are still working on refining it, thought some constructive comments on what we don't like, and what we would like, would help you.

You guys really do a great job.

Carl

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post #8 of 37 Old Feb 16th, 2008, 4:57 pm
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Old vs. New - IMPULSE opportunity

I liked the OLD layout because, as others have said, you could quickly give it a look and see what was new and if you wanted it, quickly make a bid. Over the past 3 years, I QUICKLY bought a Remus muffler, a rack for the trunk and a few other assorted items because I knew they were available. I was not specifically looking for any of them. Since the view has changed, I don't look at it as often and probably won't make as many "walk buy" purchase because the items are not as obvious.

Recently I bought some boots because I was looking for them, and did a search. They were not specifically listed, but were with other items for sale. So I guess that overall, the new view has much more to offer, its just going to miss out on the impulse buying.

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post #9 of 37 Old Feb 16th, 2008, 5:04 pm
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Re: Old vs. New - IMPULSE opportunity

Quote:
Originally Posted by dandiver
Since the view has changed, I don't look at it as often and probably won't make as many "walk buy" purchase because the items are not as obvious.
Well put Dan.


Andy, Why can't the new Classifieds ads appear in the list when we do a 'New Activity' search? Is this possible?
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post #10 of 37 Old Feb 16th, 2008, 5:11 pm
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Re: Old vs. New - IMPULSE opportunity

Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
Andy, Why can't the new Classifieds ads appear in the list when we do a 'New Activity' search? Is this possible?
Possible? Sure. You write the code for that? No? Most likely me neither. Not that I couldn't do it, but I have some bigger fish to worry about for the time being.

In all reality, if someone wants to offer php coding time, we have about 15 projects that need a little TLC. But, if you ask anyone that has done that in the past they wil tell you very quickly that this 'little' TLC can be some massive amount of time. And I have only so many hours of the day to devote to BMWLT.com and other little projects, makeing source changes to commercially available software packages and then change that every time the vendor comes wit an upgrade is not exactly my idea of time well spent.

But as I said before and earlier, if somone in the communoty wants to spend the time, we would enable this person in almost 0 time to do just that. Including and up to setting up a whole development and deployment testbed. By the show of hands, who wants that job?
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post #11 of 37 Old Feb 16th, 2008, 5:16 pm
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Re: Old vs. New - IMPULSE opportunity

Throw my two cents to the 'NAY" for what it's worth. (Nothing)
For me, too, that was the first place I would oggle. Bought many items in a short time - including a newer LT!
Even if somehow it would reflect any 'new' posts and what they might be...?
Right now, bit of a PITA. You know: an additional click or two. All the extra work for the synapses, firing away and commanding the finger to click. Since I have very few left, I'd rather have them firing over important things. Like historical bridge pics.
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post #12 of 37 Old Feb 17th, 2008, 6:30 am
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Re: "New" Classifieds - Pro

Never looked at it before the change.
It looks well slick to me and easy to use.

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post #13 of 37 Old Feb 17th, 2008, 9:36 am
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Thumbs up Re: "New" Classifieds - Pro or Con?

Other sites I go to have made similar changes to the "classifieds", overall I like them better. As they had become more popular it had become difficult to sort through all of it. JMHO NOW if we could just get some of the posters of the Ads to pay attention to them after they post them and respond to e-mails or PMs it would be NICE!!!

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post #14 of 37 Old Feb 17th, 2008, 4:57 pm
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Re: "New" Classifieds - Pro or Con?

Quote:
Originally Posted by D.Kinsey
NOW if we could just get some of the posters of the Ads to pay attention to them after they post them and respond to e-mails or PMs it would be NICE!!!
So.... would I be correct in assuming you're talking about me?
If that's the case I think I already answered you
when I responded with "if I can't get what I'm asking I'll just keep it"
I don't mean to be rude but winter is generally a slow time for motorcycling,
If my items don't sell in the allotted 30 days I'll just repost them in 3-6 months.

I like the new format most of the things I posted sold within a day or two, that's great,
you can specify how long you want the ads to run
or even have people bid on your items just like Ebay only free,
that's fantastic and that feature alone is worth supporting this site for.


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post #15 of 37 Old Feb 17th, 2008, 5:33 pm
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Re: "New" Classifieds - Pro or Con?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverBuffalo
So.... would I be correct in assuming you're talking about me?
If that's the case I think I already answered you
when I responded with "if I can't get what I'm asking I'll just keep it"
I don't mean to be rude but winter is generally a slow time for motorcycling,
If my items don't sell in the allotted 30 days I'll just repost them in 3-6 months.

I like the new format most of the things I posted sold within a day or two, that's great,
you can specify how long you want the ads to run
or even have people bid on your items just like Ebay only free,
that's fantastic and that feature alone is worth supporting this site for.
That must have been your response("if I can't get what I'm asking I'll just keep it") to someone else.

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post #16 of 37 Old Feb 17th, 2008, 6:07 pm
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Re: "New" Classifieds - Pro or Con?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sprdoorman
Hi guys,

Haven't really seen any post that tried to discuss the pros and cons of the new Classified section since it changed. Wondered what everyone thinks.

I like the new pics and descriptions, but I miss just being able to look there and see whats newly listed in a short listing. There are bikes still on there from the middle of December 07. That used to be one of the first places I went when I came here, but I kind of find it cumbersome to use and often don't even look there anymore.

Don't get me wrong, the guys that run this forum do a fantastic job and just thought getting some thoughts out there on how well its being received at this point might help them with a direction.
Carl I agree with you. I had forgotten that we even had a classified. Its out of site out of mind. I didn't even look in there for a used GPS
Well gonna take a peek now c ya later.

Just Go
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post #17 of 37 Old Feb 18th, 2008, 12:08 am
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Re: "New" Classifieds - Pro or Con?

I look at the classifieds all the time. You never know what you will find. They are a bit confusing with all the pictures. Its hard to tell what you are looking at. Once you find your way into a category, its easy to understand. At least you don't need to me a registered member to view the ads like you do over at BMWMOA.
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post #18 of 37 Old Feb 18th, 2008, 5:50 am
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Smile Re: "New" Classifieds - Pro or Con?

I think the new classifieds are very good and I appreciate the Free part because places like Cycle Trader seem to mess up every Ad I place on their site. I think you guys do a bang up job on this site and you give more customer service for free than other sites give for money. Thanks for your hard work and thoughtfulness.
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post #19 of 37 Old Feb 18th, 2008, 8:41 am
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Re: "New" Classifieds - Pro or Con?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sprdoorman
Hi guys,

Haven't really seen any post that tried to discuss the pros and cons of the new Classified section since it changed. Wondered what everyone thinks..
I don't use pay Pal, so it leaves me out, the price is darn sure fair though

Also I tried to get hold of the moderator and there was no contact for him that I could find.

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post #20 of 37 Old Feb 18th, 2008, 9:25 am
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Thumbs down Re: "New" Classifieds - Pro or Con?

Personally I think the new classified section just plain suck! I have not even gotten a nibble on the item I was selling whereas I used to get replies under the old format. Changing for the sake of changing does not make a good business case.
I'll just say "sometimes Better is the enemy of Good".

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post #21 of 37 Old Feb 19th, 2008, 10:47 am
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Re: "New" Classifieds - Pro or Con?

While I certainly understand that some people just don't like change, we really needed to change the classifieds as they were before. The amount of time that moderators had to spend keeping the section policed and pruned was excessive. We received a large volume of traffic from people who didn't like one thing or another that was placed in that section. Additionally we did not want it to become loaded with ads from people who just joined our community to advertise. The bottom line is that the forum based classified advertising was not something we could continue using, based upon the activity and growth of this community.

The new classifieds software addresses those issues and provides many powerful new features. Ads placed can now be auctions or direct sale, there is a PayPal interface (if your site email address is your PayPal email address), you can create your own watchlist and the photo handling is much better. Supporting members can place their own ads at any time without cost. Members without a support subscription can still place ads for a nominal fee.

While the new classified ads do not show up in your new threads/posts views, it is really easy to look at newly placed items.

To make it easier to access the classifieds section we put a link on the top toolbar:



Any time you enter the classifieds you will see the most recently placed ads on the front page.



At the top of the welcome bar, just below the recent ads you can chose a number of quickly generated views of ads placed within the last day, last week or last two weeks:



You can also change the display order based upon whatever relevant data you wish:


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post #22 of 37 Old Feb 19th, 2008, 10:53 am
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Re: "New" Classifieds - Pro or Con?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmgs
I don't use pay Pal, so it leaves me out, the price is darn sure fair though

Also I tried to get hold of the moderator and there was no contact for him that I could find.
For anything on this site you can send a PM to 'Randy', 'Andy', 'ElJeffe' or 'DaveDragon'. We will personally answer the PMs or will direct your questions to one of the site moderators. You can also email [email protected] and the question will get to the Administrators above.

Don't hesitate to send me a PM, it makes me feel needed

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post #23 of 37 Old Feb 19th, 2008, 11:03 am
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Re: "New" Classifieds - Pro or Con?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zippy_gg
Personally I think the new classified section just plain suck! I have not even gotten a nibble on the item I was selling whereas I used to get replies under the old format. Changing for the sake of changing does not make a good business case.
I'll just say "sometimes Better is the enemy of Good".
Honestly we do not 'change for the sake of change'. As a matter of fact we very carefully consider any change to this community prior to implementation. There were many ways the old forum based classifieds 'plain sucked', and most of that suckage landed squarely on the shoulders of unpaid volunteers who manage this community.

With any change it will take some time for people to get accustomed to it. I am certain the traffic to the classifieds section will continue to grow. We will also make some subtle changes as we are able to make the classifieds easier to check.

The classifieds system we have chosen is robust and integrates well into our underlying forum software. As the vendor improves the software our classifieds section will evolve with those changes. If you have any suggestions for any changes to categories or any other improvements we can make to the new system - we are listening.

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post #24 of 37 Old Feb 19th, 2008, 11:28 am
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Re: "New" Classifieds - Pro or Con?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy
ads at any time without cost. Members without a support subscription can still place ads for a nominal fee.
fee is definitly worth it, there is just no other way than to pay for it with pay pal, no way to take a option to drop a check or pay with a CC.

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post #25 of 37 Old Feb 19th, 2008, 12:11 pm
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Re: "New" Classifieds - Pro or Con?

Is there anyway to access old post? I listed a couple of items that did not sell, but could not find the original post to see what I was asking for them. I sent a private message to a moderator to see if it could be retrieved, but never heard anything.

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post #26 of 37 Old Feb 19th, 2008, 12:54 pm
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Re: "New" Classifieds - Pro or Con?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmgs
fee is definitly worth it, there is just no other way than to pay for it with pay pal, no way to take a option to drop a check or pay with a CC.
For now checks are too difficult and way too slow to handle. PayPal provides a means of doing a single credit card payment without establishing a PayPal account. If you establish an account, which is totally free of fees for sending money, you can choose the method of funding the transaction, even treating it as an EFT from your checking account.

PayPal is safe and secure and since 2003 has been a wholly owned subsidiary of Ebay.com.

We have used PayPal exclusively for this community as well as for Curve Cowboy Reunion since both entities were formed. We have not had a single problem with a single transaction, ever. I have used PayPal personally since it was formed in 2000. While there were stories of frozen accounts and other problems in the early days, most of those turned out to be noting more urban legends. Since Ebay acquired PayPal those stories have all disappeared. PayPal was sued in 2002 for not fully complying with the EFTA. After losing those lawsuits and especially since the Ebay acquisition, PayPal fully EFTA compliant. I have never had a single problem personally with PayPal and consider it extremely convenient. I consider PayPal's security to be much more comforting than giving my CC information to a small online merchant who may or may not consider my security important.

For a merchant, PayPal charges slightly higher fees than a true credit card account, but it is often much less expensive than starting a merchant account for small transactions.

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post #27 of 37 Old Feb 19th, 2008, 12:55 pm
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Re: "New" Classifieds - Pro or Con?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lnowell
Is there anyway to access old post? I listed a couple of items that did not sell, but could not find the original post to see what I was asking for them. I sent a private message to a moderator to see if it could be retrieved, but never heard anything.
Is this an old post in the new Classifieds section or in the old forum based Classifieds?

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post #28 of 37 Old Feb 19th, 2008, 12:58 pm
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Re: "New" Classifieds - Pro or Con?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmgs
fee is definitly worth it, there is just no other way than to pay for it with pay pal, no way to take a option to drop a check or pay with a CC.
One more thought, send a check for $12 for a basic subscription and you get a full year of classified posting for free. You can click here to subscribe and simply choose to mail a check instead of using PayPal.

Randy Prade
Aurora, CO

Just ride it!
Meet Riley

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post #29 of 37 Old Feb 19th, 2008, 1:09 pm
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Re: "New" Classifieds - Pro or Con?

Tom,

Paypal now allows you to do one-time credit card transactions without establishing an account with them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmgs
fee is definitly worth it, there is just no other way than to pay for it with pay pal, no way to take a option to drop a check or pay with a CC.


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Plano, TX
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'04 Sprint RS Caspian Blue

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post #30 of 37 Old Feb 19th, 2008, 3:04 pm
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Re: "New" Classifieds - Pro or Con?

Try changing a p/word/whatever with those aholes (paypal) and see what happens.

I'll never use that stoopid thing again. It puts you into an endless do-loop. Can't cancel it. Can't get ahold of anyone, no number, etc. Can't do shitz. I put their tired emails on my spam list so I dont' have to look at them anymore. I don't have time for bs, life is plenty fast without any help from these types of companies.

on the classifieds, its kindof cool but I'm lazy..too many keystrokes to get where I want to be. But I can understand the change if it is too hard to manage by the folks doing this work. Just my observation and my natural reaction to the new format.
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post #31 of 37 Old Feb 19th, 2008, 4:05 pm
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Re: "New" Classifieds - Pro or Con?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ldbikin
Try changing a p/word/whatever with those aholes (paypal) and see what happens.

I'll never use that stoopid thing again. It puts you into an endless do-loop. Can't cancel it. Can't get ahold of anyone, no number, etc. Can't do shitz. I put their tired emails on my spam list so I dont' have to look at them anymore. I don't have time for bs, life is plenty fast without any help from these types of companies.

on the classifieds, its kindof cool but I'm lazy..too many keystrokes to get where I want to be. But I can understand the change if it is too hard to manage by the folks doing this work. Just my observation and my natural reaction to the new format.
I have used Papal for years to buy and sell used items on the forums and Ebay. Sold two GS related things this week on ADVrider and received payment immediately.

Not sure what problems you're referring to...

__________
2016 R1200GS Adventure
2006 DRZ400E

2007 G650 X Challenge
2006 GT200
2005 R1200GS


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post #32 of 37 Old Feb 19th, 2008, 4:18 pm
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Re: "New" Classifieds - Pro or Con?

Can non-supporting members see and/or access the new Classifieds? I'd hate to think that only supporting members can access them.

Howard Schisler
2015 BMW K1600GTL
2009 BMW K1200LT - 60k miles
2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
AMA, IBA, BMW MOA. CCRs: Braselton 2006, Osage Beach 2007, Duluth 2012


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post #33 of 37 Old Feb 19th, 2008, 4:31 pm
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Re: "New" Classifieds - Pro or Con?

Maybe it is growing on me. The only thing I miss is the ability to tell if there are new posts from the main forum index. I need to actually go to the classified section to see.

Thanks,
Kevin

1999 K1200LT, patiently waiting for a new model.
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post #34 of 37 Old Feb 19th, 2008, 4:33 pm
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Re: "New" Classifieds - Pro or Con?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hschisler
Can non-supporting members see and/or access the new Classifieds? I'd hate to think that only supporting members can access them.
Everyone can see the adds.

__________
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2006 DRZ400E

2007 G650 X Challenge
2006 GT200
2005 R1200GS


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post #35 of 37 Old Feb 19th, 2008, 4:36 pm
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Re: "New" Classifieds - Pro or Con?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Shred
Everyone can see the adds.
OK, then. Thanks.

Howard Schisler
2015 BMW K1600GTL
2009 BMW K1200LT - 60k miles
2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
AMA, IBA, BMW MOA. CCRs: Braselton 2006, Osage Beach 2007, Duluth 2012


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post #36 of 37 Old Feb 19th, 2008, 5:03 pm
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Re: "New" Classifieds - Pro or Con?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ldbikin
Try changing a p/word/whatever with those aholes (paypal) and see what happens.

I'll never use that stoopid thing again. It puts you into an endless do-loop. Can't cancel it. Can't get ahold of anyone, no number, etc. Can't do shitz. I put their tired emails on my spam list so I dont' have to look at them anymore. I don't have time for bs, life is plenty fast without any help from these types of companies.

on the classifieds, its kindof cool but I'm lazy..too many keystrokes to get where I want to be. But I can understand the change if it is too hard to manage by the folks doing this work. Just my observation and my natural reaction to the new format.
Wow! I really have never had any problems. I have changed my personal account password as well as the passwords on our commercial accounts about twice a year and never had a problem. Changing your password or any other security related item necessarily requires some extra steps. You wouldn't want someone who hacked into your account to be able to lock out your password without going through some sort of security test.

FWIW there is a telephone contact number listed at the bottom of the PayPal home page under 'Contact us' - it is (888) 221-1161. You do have to have an account and be logged in in order to get to the phone contact.

Randy Prade
Aurora, CO

Just ride it!
Meet Riley

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post #37 of 37 Old Feb 19th, 2008, 5:06 pm
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Re: "New" Classifieds - Pro or Con?

I haven't even looked at it since I'm trying to save money for CCR. You made me look, and now I'm getting a GPS that I sold Gino. LOL It will be perfect for my old truck.

I like the pictures, and I like the categories. It seems easy to browse to me.

Blessings!
munson+

The Rev. John Munson
Vicar,
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