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post #1 of 44 Old Feb 7th, 2008, 11:19 am Thread Starter
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Romney gone.

Mitt heading to the barn? I guess it's not a true yardstick, butt makes one wonder how the dropouts 'would've' fared if elected in!!

I haven't been watching it close enough to figger out who the media wants in the race to the oval office - either party!!
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post #2 of 44 Old Feb 7th, 2008, 12:01 pm
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I'm still looking for the None of the Above option - for both parties.

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All lower 48 states plus Alaska on the K13GT in two weeks . . .

Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #3 of 44 Old Feb 7th, 2008, 12:03 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick
Mitt heading to the barn? I guess it's not a true yardstick, butt makes one wonder how the dropouts 'would've' fared if elected in!!

I haven't been watching it close enough to figger out who the media wants in the race to the oval office - either party!!
Given that McCain is not very different from Clinton on many issues, Conservatives sure missed the boat not backing Romney. Ann Coulter wrote an article called "THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM" on January 16th that is interesting reading. It might give you a direction to go for an answer to your question about the media.

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post #4 of 44 Old Feb 7th, 2008, 12:34 pm
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Originally Posted by meese
I'm still looking for the None of the Above option - for both parties.
I'm with you on that. It is amazing to me that Bill Richardson out of New Mexico, likely one of the most qualified candidates in the initial mix, never found traction. I would have liked to get a chance to hear more from him. While he sits on the other side of the political fence from me, I would really rather have a qualified candidate to look at than the group we have to choose among now. I am so tired of having to hold my nose vote for the candidate I dislike the least. Since both parties are coerced by special interests and any candidate who resists this coercion won't gain traction, we are assured of these kinds of choices for the foreseeable future.

Ann Coulter said we would see her out stumping for Clinton if McCain gets the nod. That will be an interesting sight.

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post #5 of 44 Old Feb 7th, 2008, 1:41 pm
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If you like Coulter, you should read some of her other works:
Godless: The Church of Liberalism And How to Talk to a Liberal (If You Must) Are two that I would personally recommend. This will be my next read of hers : Slander: Liberal Lies About the American Right
I also highly recommend Michelle Malkin's works as well: Unhinged: Exposing Liberals Gone Wild Is one of my favorite reads.

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post #6 of 44 Old Feb 7th, 2008, 2:12 pm
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Originally Posted by lnowell
Given that McCain is not very different from Clinton on many issues, Conservatives sure missed the boat not backing Romney.
Conservatives are coming to the realization that, not only do they not control the country; they don't even control the Republican party. Maybe, just maybe, the Republican base isn't as far to the right as the Christian conservatives would have us believe.



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post #7 of 44 Old Feb 7th, 2008, 2:36 pm
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Originally Posted by hoog62
Maybe, just maybe, the Republican base isn't as far to the right as the Christian conservatives would have us believe.
One can only hope ...

Frankly, after the past seven years, I'm surprised anyone can muster any enthusiasm for anything from the Republican party. Bush has truly sunk the ship.

And no, I don't think he was a better choice than Kerry. Not even close.
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post #8 of 44 Old Feb 7th, 2008, 3:08 pm
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Originally Posted by KMC1
If you like Coulter, you should read some of her other works:
I'm not really saying that I like Coulter, just that it will be interesting to see her stump for Hillary as she pledged on Hannity and Colmes. I am very familiar with what she writes and says she believes.

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post #9 of 44 Old Feb 7th, 2008, 3:27 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
I'm still looking for the None of the Above option - for both parties.
That is about the only viable option, Ken. Pretty poor selection of candidates. How about a write-in campaign with your name????

God bless:


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post #10 of 44 Old Feb 7th, 2008, 3:50 pm
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Originally Posted by hoog62
Maybe, just maybe, the Republican base isn't as far to the right as the Christian conservatives would have us believe.
No "maybe" about it hoogie. And all of the right-wing conservative Christians that I know are well aware of that fact as well. No secret there.

I'm not too sure someone can be a politician and a Christian at the same time.
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post #11 of 44 Old Feb 7th, 2008, 4:03 pm
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Still looking for a Libertrarian that appeals to most Americans. If presented correctly, libertarian ideas appeal to a broad segment.

Having to choose between Monicas ex-boyfriends wife, and a liberal that runs as a Republican is not my idea of voting.

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post #12 of 44 Old Feb 7th, 2008, 4:08 pm
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Originally Posted by Randy
I'm not really saying that I like Coulter, just that it will be interesting to see her stump for Hillary as she pledged on Hannity and Colmes. I am very familiar with what she writes and says she believes.
Yeah, that should be pretty interesting. I wonder if Hillary will run her over herself or hire someone to do it for her should Coulter be try to her word! The one thing that is becomming too obvious to ignore (I think) is that this country needs election reforms to bring back the people as in "We the", and take control back from Big Money. That's an issue that from what I've seen crosses party lines, race lines, gender lines and most class lines.

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post #13 of 44 Old Feb 7th, 2008, 5:15 pm
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Originally Posted by KMC1
The one thing that is becomming too obvious to ignore (I think) is that this country needs election reforms to bring back the people as in "We the", and take control back from Big Money. That's an issue that from what I've seen crosses party lines, race lines, gender lines and most class lines.
One way to do that would be to put term limits on all political offices, and end the career politicians. It'll never fly as the Big Money will protect their bought-and-paid-for investments, but it's a nice theory.

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All lower 48 states plus Alaska on the K13GT in two weeks . . .

Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #14 of 44 Old Feb 7th, 2008, 6:22 pm
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Originally Posted by hoog62
Conservatives are coming to the realization that, not only do they not control the country; they don't even control the Republican party. Maybe, just maybe, the Republican base isn't as far to the right as the Christian conservatives would have us believe.
I will aways be greatful for the Bush presidency because he single-handedly destroyed the Christian Right and rendered them impotent.
And this is coming from a lifelong conservative and Republican.

Bruce Hodges
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post #15 of 44 Old Feb 7th, 2008, 6:40 pm
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Originally Posted by bruce2000ltc
I will aways be greatful for the Bush presidency because he single-handedly destroyed the Christian Right and rendered them impotent.
Agreed, although some of them don't know quite it yet. Too bad that it'll take years to clean up after him and his cronies.

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All lower 48 states plus Alaska on the K13GT in two weeks . . .

Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #16 of 44 Old Feb 7th, 2008, 6:51 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
I'm still looking for the None of the Above option - for both parties.
Now there's an idea we can agree on. Wouldn't it be nice if every election had a "none of the above"? And if None Of The Above won the majority of votes, a new slate of names had to be brought forth.

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post #17 of 44 Old Feb 7th, 2008, 9:20 pm
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Mitt will be VP to Prez Mc Cain.

religious zealots are everywhere, not only on the right...

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post #18 of 44 Old Feb 7th, 2008, 9:55 pm
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post #19 of 44 Old Feb 8th, 2008, 4:11 pm
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Originally Posted by bruce2000ltc
I will aways be greatful for the Bush presidency because he single-handedly destroyed the Christian Right and rendered them impotent.
And this is coming from a lifelong conservative and Republican.
Bruce Hodges
Interesting perspective.

I would say that the Bush administration has shattered the political power of the neo-conservatives, as they are closely tied to specific policies, most of which are unpopular and widely seen as failures.

The struggles of the Christian Right, from my vantage point, are largely the result of actions by members of Congress and others outside of the Bush administration.

The Christian Right has not been able to exert strong political power this election cycle is because they are not united around a candidate that is acceptable to other wings of the Republican party. Part of this is because as the Bush presidency has imploded, the various wings of the party fled in different directions. And the best candidates the Christian Right could have put forward got caught up in the abuse of power that led to the Democrats retaking Congress, or other scandals. Examples of the latter are Trent Lott's praise of the Dixiecrats, George Allen's "macaca" statement, and Bill Frist's failure as a majority leader.

I expect the Christian Right will be influential in the 2010 mid-term elections. And if the Democrats take the White House this year, the Christian Right will be as powerful as ever in 2012.

If you disagree, I would love to hear your point of view.
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post #20 of 44 Old Feb 8th, 2008, 4:24 pm
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Interesting perspective.

I would say that the Bush administration has shattered the political power of the neo-conservatives, as they are closely tied to specific policies, most of which are unpopular and widely seen as failures.

The struggles of the Christian Right, from my vantage point, are largely the result of actions by members of Congress and others outside of the Bush administration.

The Christian Right has not been able to exert strong political power this election cycle is because they are not united around a candidate that is acceptable to other wings of the Republican party. Part of this is because as the Bush presidency has imploded, the various wings of the party fled in different directions. And the best candidates the Christian Right could have put forward got caught up in the abuse of power that led to the Democrats retaking Congress, or other scandals. Examples of the latter are Trent Lott's praise of the Dixiecrats, George Allen's "macaca" statement, and Bill Frist's failure as a majority leader.

I expect the Christian Right will be influential in the 2010 mid-term elections. And if the Democrats take the White House this year, the Christian Right will be as powerful as ever in 2012.

If you disagree, I would love to hear your point of view.
That is probably the most insiteful political post I've read on this board.

I'm betting you are published in more depth elsewhere. Care to offer up a link to more of your work? I'd like to read it.
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post #21 of 44 Old Feb 9th, 2008, 12:17 pm
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I am a little suprised that I find so many references to right wing nuts like Ann Colter on this forum. I used to ride a Harley and most of the people I talked to in that group were just a little right of Attila the Hun. I certainly hope that people using this forum do not get into the conspiracy thing and constantly blast the Clintons for imagined stuff like the death of Vince Foster. In my opinion, Bill Clinton accomplished more for the middle class and poor than any president since John Kennedy. We could use someone with his ability to balance the budget these days.

Anyway, I had always assumed that Beemer riders were more astute than the cultist mentality of Harley riders. Perhaps we could discuss motorcycles and leave politics to the bloggers.
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post #22 of 44 Old Feb 9th, 2008, 12:51 pm
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Originally Posted by messenger13
No "maybe" about it hoogie. And all of the right-wing conservative Christians that I know are well aware of that fact as well. No secret there.

I'm not too sure someone can be a politician and a Christian at the same time.

You are correct ,again, Joe a candidate with Christian roots has less of a chance than a Muslim( and I don't mean Obama)...really, in the good ole US of A....How sad is that????

IN God We Trust......no more

Mike
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post #23 of 44 Old Feb 9th, 2008, 1:05 pm
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Originally Posted by walkingdude
I am a little suprised that I find so many references to right wing nuts like Ann Colter on this forum. I used to ride a Harley and most of the people I talked to in that group were just a little right of Attila the Hun. I certainly hope that people using this forum do not get into the conspiracy thing and constantly blast the Clintons for imagined stuff like the death of Vince Foster. In my opinion, Bill Clinton accomplished more for the middle class and poor than any president since John Kennedy. We could use someone with his ability to balance the budget these days.

Anyway, I had always assumed that Beemer riders were more astute than the cultist mentality of Harley riders. Perhaps we could discuss motorcycles and leave politics to the bloggers.
You are very welcome to your opinion of the Clinton era, however, "astute" that may or may not be. But remember that some of us "right wing nuts" also ride BMW motorcycles and have opinions, too. I personally enjoy Ann Coulter and disagree with Bill Clinton, but that does not mean that I am unwilling to ride with you or with those of my friends who ride Harleys.

Ain't it a great country where we can disagree politically and still ride motorcycles!

God bless:


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post #24 of 44 Old Feb 9th, 2008, 3:55 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walkingdude
... imagined stuff like the death of Vince Foster.
No it's true, Vince Foster did die.

Quote:
Originally Posted by walkingdude
I had always assumed that Beemer riders were more astute than the cultist mentality of Harley riders.
Unfortunately, the herd mentality runs deep through all sections of our society. Even BMW ownership doesn't exclude people who lack critical thinking skills, or who are intolerant of a contrary viewpoint from anyone who doesn't vote the same way, ride the same brand, or hasn't walked in their shoes for twenty years.

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post #25 of 44 Old Feb 9th, 2008, 4:09 pm
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Originally Posted by shadowofshoe
You are correct ,again, Joe a candidate with Christian roots has less of a chance than a Muslim( and I don't mean Obama)...really, in the good ole US of A....How sad is that????

IN God We Trust......no more

Mike
I don't think it's that bad Mike. Many Christian values are desirable in our elected officials. But an elected official has the duty to represent all Americans, and I can see how that may conflict with some Christian principles.

...and notice that it says "In God We Trust" not "In Christ We Trust"

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post #26 of 44 Old Feb 9th, 2008, 6:11 pm
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Originally Posted by hoog62
...and notice that it says "In God We Trust" not "In Christ We Trust"
Sorry Dave, I can't let it pass . . . remember, I didn't start this. According to the Bible, God and Christ are One in the same.


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post #27 of 44 Old Feb 9th, 2008, 6:24 pm
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...God and Christ are One in the same.
yes, according to the New Testament. (right?)

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post #28 of 44 Old Feb 9th, 2008, 6:25 pm
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yes, according to the New Testament. (right?)
I believe that you will find them One and the same in both testaments, Old and New.


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post #29 of 44 Old Feb 9th, 2008, 6:37 pm
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I believe that you will find them One and the same in both testaments, Old and New.
Fair enough, thank you Chick. There are however, a couple other major religions that don't view them as the same, and our constitution covers them also.

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post #30 of 44 Old Feb 9th, 2008, 6:50 pm
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Fair enough, thank you Chick. There are however, a couple other major religions that don't view them as the same, and our constitution covers them also.
I totally agree Dave. That is why it is difficult, if not impossible, to mix religion and politics in these United States.


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post #31 of 44 Old Feb 9th, 2008, 7:52 pm
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I believe that you will find them One and the same in both testaments, Old and New.
I believe that is incorrect.
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post #32 of 44 Old Feb 9th, 2008, 8:09 pm
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I believe that is incorrect.
It will probably not surprise you Joel that you are not the first to have ever disagreed with me.


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post #33 of 44 Old Feb 9th, 2008, 9:32 pm
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Sorry Dave, I can't let it pass . . . remember, I didn't start this. According to the Bible, God and Christ are One in the same.
I believe the chapter and verse you are looking for is John 10:30, "I and the Father are one." There are others, but this is the most direct statement of oneness.

It should be noted, however, that there are several modern Protestant denominations that do not believe in the doctrine of the Trinity, and there is considerable evidence that the earliest Christians worshiped God and Jesus as two separate entities. So despite the seemingly clear statement recorded in John 10:30, smart and thoughtful people can reach very different conclusions.

There are as many flavors of Christianity as there are of ice cream.
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post #34 of 44 Old Feb 10th, 2008, 7:08 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTPenguin
I believe the chapter and verse you are looking for is John 10:30, "I and the Father are one." There are others, but this is the most direct statement of oneness.

It should be noted, however, that there are several modern Protestant denominations that do not believe in the doctrine of the Trinity, and there is considerable evidence that the earliest Christians worshiped God and Jesus as two separate entities. So despite the seemingly clear statement recorded in John 10:30, smart and thoughtful people can reach very different conclusions.

There are as many flavors of Christianity as there are of ice cream.
The Bible has many virtues...but clarity isn't one of them.

Bruce Hodges
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post #35 of 44 Old Feb 10th, 2008, 9:43 am
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I totally agree Dave. That is why it is difficult, if not impossible, to mix religion and politics in these United States.
And thank god for that.

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All lower 48 states plus Alaska on the K13GT in two weeks . . .

Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #36 of 44 Old Feb 10th, 2008, 10:43 am
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Hey Ken:

Your "praxis" sub-heading caught my attention. Good New Testament word:

4234πρᾶξις [praxis /prax·is/] n f. From 4238; TDNT 6:642; TDNTA 927; GK 4552; Six occurrences; AV translates as “deed” four times, “work” once, and “office” once. 1 a doing, a mode of acting, a deal, a transaction. 1a the doings of the apostles. 1b in a bad sense, wicked deed, crime, wicked doings (our practices i.e. trickery). 2 a thing to be done, business.
n n: noun or neuter

f f: feminine

TDNT Theological Dictionary of the New Testament

TDNTA Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, Abridged in One Volume

GK Goodrick-Kohlenberger

AV Authorized Version

Strong, J. (1996). The exhaustive concordance of the Bible : Showing every word of the text of the common English version of the canonical books, and every occurrence of each word in regular order. (electronic ed.) (G4234). Ontario: Woodside Bible Fellowship.


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post #37 of 44 Old Feb 10th, 2008, 12:13 pm
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I believe that is incorrect.
Joel, I agree with you. Since most scholars agree that the Old Testament was composed and compiled between the 12th and the 2nd century BC, the old testament predates the birth of Jesus.

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post #38 of 44 Old Feb 10th, 2008, 12:46 pm
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In a forum of nearly 15,000 members, looking at a thread of less than 40 posts, gives you little perspective of the makeup of this community. For the record her name has come up in a total of 6 of our nearly 55,000 threads. That means that 99.99% of all the threads in this forum have no reference at all to her. Conversely, the name Clinton comes up in 137 threads, 23 times as many threads.
Quote:
Originally Posted by walkingdude
I am a little suprised that I find so many references to right wing nuts like Ann Colter on this forum. I used to ride a Harley and most of the people I talked to in that group were just a little right of Attila the Hun. I certainly hope that people using this forum do not get into the conspiracy thing and constantly blast the Clintons for imagined stuff like the death of Vince Foster. In my opinion, Bill Clinton accomplished more for the middle class and poor than any president since John Kennedy. We could use someone with his ability to balance the budget these days.

Anyway, I had always assumed that Beemer riders were more astute than the cultist mentality of Harley riders. Perhaps we could discuss motorcycles and leave politics to the bloggers.

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post #39 of 44 Old Feb 10th, 2008, 12:55 pm
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Joel, I agree with you. Since most scholars agree that the Old Testament was composed and compiled between the 12th and the 2nd century BC, the old testament predates the birth of Jesus.
Randy:

Not to be argumentative, but to clarify my position (realizing that you and others disagree which is fine), I agree that the Old Teastament predates the birth of Jesus Christ. The question was whether or not God and Jesus are one and the same. I believe that they are and the earthly birth of Jesus has no bearing on His pre-existance as God. His birth was not His beginning, it was His offering of a Savior to all of mankind.


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post #40 of 44 Old Feb 10th, 2008, 3:54 pm
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Originally Posted by Chick
Your "praxis" sub-heading caught my attention.
Interesting. I was unaware of the biblical usage. I actually ran across the word in a motorcycle review, believe it or not. I then traced it back to Aristotle. He believed there are three types of knowledge: theoretical, to which the end goal was truth; poietical, to which the end goal was production; and practical, to which the end goal was action. Each had their own merits and applications, and each was equally beneficial to mankind.

I kinda like the interpretation of praxis as laid out in my .sig. Basically, it's a reminder to stop over-thinking things and just do it.

Ken
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'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
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All lower 48 states plus Alaska on the K13GT in two weeks . . .

Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #41 of 44 Old Feb 10th, 2008, 4:43 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walkingdude
I am a little suprised that I find so many references to right wing nuts like Ann Colter on this forum. I used to ride a Harley and most of the people I talked to in that group were just a little right of Attila the Hun. I certainly hope that people using this forum do not get into the conspiracy thing and constantly blast the Clintons for imagined stuff like the death of Vince Foster. In my opinion, Bill Clinton accomplished more for the middle class and poor than any president since John Kennedy. We could use someone with his ability to balance the budget these days.

Anyway, I had always assumed that Beemer riders were more astute than the cultist mentality of Harley riders. Perhaps we could discuss motorcycles and leave politics to the bloggers.
This is some great insight into the Liberal thought process IMO. It is presented from a position of moral superiority towards anyone who has more Right-leaning opinions than the poster. Which is of course the Modus Operandi of most, if not all, Liberals. It's also interesting to note that in opining that you had assumed BMW riders are more "astute" than H-D riders, you show that you have been manipulated into believing the branding message of BMW wholeheartedly. LOL…. Oh, the irony!!!

R1200GSA Hi Ho, Hi Ho, It's off to Alaska I go!
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post #42 of 44 Old Feb 10th, 2008, 5:10 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
I kinda like the interpretation of praxis as laid out in my .sig. Basically, it's a reminder to stop over-thinking things and just do it.
I like yours better, too.


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post #43 of 44 Old Feb 10th, 2008, 5:11 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMC1
This is some great insight into the Liberal thought process IMO. It is presented from a position of moral superiority towards anyone who has more Right-leaning opinions than the poster. Which is of course the Modus Operandi of most, if not all, Liberals. It's also interesting to note that in opining that you had assumed BMW riders are more "astute" than H-D riders, you show that you have been manipulated into believing the branding message of BMW wholeheartedly. LOL…. Oh, the irony!!!
Well said, Kevin!


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post #44 of 44 Old Feb 11th, 2008, 4:14 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMC1
This is some great insight into the Liberal thought process IMO. It is presented from a position of moral superiority towards anyone who has more Right-leaning opinions than the poster. Which is of course the Modus Operandi of most, if not all, Liberals. It's also interesting to note that in opining that you had assumed BMW riders are more "astute" than H-D riders, you show that you have been manipulated into believing the branding message of BMW wholeheartedly. LOL…. Oh, the irony!!!
I should have said that I assumed BMW riders were a little more astute than some of the Harley Riders I have known. Actually, I probably should have not said anything. It is just that I cannot abide the lies and innuendo that Ann Colter spews fourth. I think that the vicious, undocumented attacks of the right wing bloggers such as Colter and Limbaugh are what is wrong with politics in this country. Can you imagine anything more arrogant that "How to talk to a liberal if you really must." And if my opinion offends, then so be it.
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