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post #1 of 35 Old Jan 8th, 2008, 12:50 pm Thread Starter
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Electable?

This question is NOT about their qualifications to lead, but....

Obama, or Hillary. Is either one of them really electable in November?

I feel Hillary will guarantee whomever runs from the right will get elected, and living in the south, I just not sure if America is ready to elect a black man.

Discuss...(as adults )


















Dragon, you asked.

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post #2 of 35 Old Jan 8th, 2008, 12:53 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoog62
This question is NOT about their qualifications to lead, but....

Obama, or Hillary. Is either one of them really electable in November?

I feel Hillary will guarantee whomever runs from the right will get elected, and living in the south, I just not sure if America is ready to elect a black man.

Discuss...(as adults )


















Dragon, you asked.
I won't vote for him, but I think he's more electable than Clinton.

Would be better for us Republicans if Clinton did get the nomination but that seems unlikely at this point...

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post #3 of 35 Old Jan 8th, 2008, 1:06 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveDragon
Hillary will be harder to elect than Obama me thinks!
Here's What you won't find in the Clinton Museum and Library

Obama only has two years of Washington Experiance and that may be his best quality; much like Abe Lincoln he is a relative new comer.

He owes nothing at this point to special interest or the "Military Industrial Complex" so I think he will be less likely to bend to their will should he be elected.
His inexperience is one of the attractions.

Political experience = political debt

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post #4 of 35 Old Jan 8th, 2008, 1:23 pm
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I'm liking Ron Paul more everyday.

I just love the way Hillary's campaign went from Experience to Change. Flip flopping, mealy mouthed politicians.

The professional politician needs to go. It's no longer for the people, by the people.



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post #5 of 35 Old Jan 8th, 2008, 1:34 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveDragon
Hillary will be harder to elect than Obama me thinks!
Here's What you won't find in the Clinton Museum and Library

Obama only has two years of Washington Experiance and that may be his best quality; much like Abe Lincoln he is a relative new comer.

He owes nothing at this point to special interest or the "Military Industrial Complex" so I think he will be less likely to bend to their will should he be elected.
I don't think it is possible to be elected to the US Senate from a large industrial state and not owe something to special interests. A recent report from the Senate itself said that the average cost of running for the US Senate in 2006 in the 10 most expensive races was $34M. You don't raise that kind of money without owing some favors. __________________

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post #6 of 35 Old Jan 8th, 2008, 1:40 pm
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Don't Forget Oprah PLUS A JOKE

Remember the Soccer Moms, well Oprah has them licked.

My SO is a relatively conservative gal. We tend to agree on most political subjects. Now Obama....

Oprah "told her" to read his books, she did. Now with Oprah's support, I think we reached a tipping point with the undecideds and independants.

My Wife and I have a little bet, I still believe the "Hillary machine" will ultimately overcome. The Clintons have many powerful friends.

Being a conservative myself, I would much rather face Hillary than Obama. But also never wanting to walk away from a good fight, Obama will be a harder match.

Funny how the main stream media is fairly silent on the implosion of Hillary.



NOW THE HILLARY JOKE (B-Ware)

Packers QB

In a news conference Deanna Favre, wife of Green Bay Packer future Hall of Fame quarterback Brett Favre, announced she will be the starting QB for the Packers this coming Sunday. She claimed she is qualified to be starting QB because she has spent the past 16 years married to Brett while he played QB for the Packers. Because of this she understands how to pick up a corner blitz and knows the terminology of the Packers offense. A poll of Packers fans shows that 50% of those polled supported the move.



Does this sound idiotic and unbelievable to you? Yet Hillary Clinton makes the same claims as to why she is qualified to be President and 50% of democrats polled agreed.

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post #7 of 35 Old Jan 8th, 2008, 1:50 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joegottberg
NOW THE HILLARY JOKE (B-Ware)

Packers QB

In a news conference Deanna Favre, wife of Green Bay Packer future Hall of Fame quarterback Brett Favre, announced she will be the starting QB for the Packers this coming Sunday. She claimed she is qualified to be starting QB because she has spent the past 16 years married to Brett while he played QB for the Packers. Because of this she understands how to pick up a corner blitz and knows the terminology of the Packers offense. A poll of Packers fans shows that 50% of those polled supported the move.



Does this sound idiotic and unbelievable to you? Yet Hillary Clinton makes the same claims as to why she is qualified to be President and 50% of democrats polled agreed.
It may be a joke but it sure illustrates the point doesn't it.

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post #8 of 35 Old Jan 8th, 2008, 2:06 pm
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No one mobilizes the conservative base more than Hillary.

I personally think she'd make a much better president than Bush, but then again, so would my rescue-shelter mut.

Obama, on the other hand, seems to be connecting with independents. Plus he has tremendous charisma, and he comes across as honest and open.

Hillary does not have the charisma, and she comes across as "handled."

Regarding race, holy crap, this IS 2008, isn't it?
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post #9 of 35 Old Jan 8th, 2008, 2:06 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grifscoots
I'm liking Ron Paul more everyday.

I just love the way Hillary's campaign went from Experience to Change. Flip flopping, mealy mouthed politicians.

The professional politician needs to go. It's no longer for the people, by the people.
+1, Grif. But then again, I seem to recall you liked Kinky, too. And how come the news media doesn't cover Ron Paul? Heck, ABC has interviewed each candidate one on one.....except Ron Paul.


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post #10 of 35 Old Jan 8th, 2008, 2:33 pm
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I am a southern boy and I don't feel race is an issue with Obama. I think not saying the Pledge of Allegiance and putting you hand over you heart during the National Anthem is a MAJOR ISSUE and I am having a real problem with this NOT seeming to be an issue. There is something very wrong with this guy. My gee - haw meter went off the first time I heard him and every time since - and if you lend money, you learn to trust your meter.

Hillary is a raving socialist and borderline communist. We need less government not more. She has a lot of baggage and I am sure we have not even seen the tip of the iceberg - which I am sure is being saved up somewhere for the real election.

I am really disgusted that not one candidate from either party (that I have heard) has flatly stated they are against illegals (from anywhere) living here and getting benefits they are not intitled AND said they want ENGLISH as our official language. Spineless bunch - all.

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post #11 of 35 Old Jan 8th, 2008, 2:50 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lnowell

. . . AND said they want ENGLISH as our official language. . .
So when you'all gonna learn to speak it - seriously, as a Brit, I find the whole American electoral process bizarre - you seem to have this process where the people (and peopleesses) who can generate the most money stand a chance of getting voted for, then, once you've decided who's got the most money (or most money behind them), you then decide to have a Presidential election - THEN, if the public vote doesn't go the way that's wanted, you arbitarily ignore the total votes of entire states - and afterwards, you don't complain about the results. BIZARRE

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post #12 of 35 Old Jan 8th, 2008, 3:08 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwsdad
+1, Grif. But then again, I seem to recall you liked Kinky, too. And how come the news media doesn't cover Ron Paul? Heck, ABC has interviewed each candidate one on one.....except Ron Paul.
Because he's scary to the machine.

What I can't understand is how the average American doesn't see what's going on with the government and especially with politicians. Once they (try) to disarm us, we're really sunk.



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post #13 of 35 Old Jan 8th, 2008, 3:11 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woolly
So when you'all gonna learn to speak it - seriously, as a Brit, I find the whole American electoral process bizarre - you seem to have this process where the people (and peopleesses) who can generate the most money stand a chance of getting voted for, then, once you've decided who's got the most money (or most money behind them), you then decide to have a Presidential election - THEN, if the public vote doesn't go the way that's wanted, you arbitarily ignore the total votes of entire states - and afterwards, you don't complain about the results. BIZARRE
No arguments from me. Lots of us find it bizarre ... as is evident from our recent election results.
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post #14 of 35 Old Jan 8th, 2008, 3:24 pm
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The facts regarding Obama and the "Star Spangled Banner":

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/anthem.asp

and regarding his refusal to say the plege of allegiance:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp
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post #15 of 35 Old Jan 8th, 2008, 3:30 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalLT
The facts regarding Obama and the "Star Spangled Banner":

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/anthem.asp

and regarding his refusal to say the plege of allegiance:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp
I saw those awhile back. Really pisses me off. That guy does not deserve to lead this country. We do not need that kind of CHANGE....

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post #16 of 35 Old Jan 8th, 2008, 3:32 pm
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Until about 2 years ago, USMC recruits (in civilian clothing or uncovered) were taught to stand at attention and face the flag during the national anthem-and specifically told not to place their hand over their heart. So I have to cut Obama some slack on no hand over the heart during the national anthem.

As for Ron Paul, he would get much more national coverage of his campaign if he didn't attract every fringe nut case conspiracy group in country.

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post #17 of 35 Old Jan 8th, 2008, 4:03 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalLT
No arguments from me. Lots of us find it bizarre ... as is evident from our recent election results.
You mean the Democrats getting control of congress?

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post #18 of 35 Old Jan 8th, 2008, 5:45 pm
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Originally Posted by hoog62
You mean the Democrats getting control of congress?

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LOL! Too funny.

We'll see whose laughing in November.
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post #19 of 35 Old Jan 8th, 2008, 6:37 pm
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Oh my god! Obama is a radical Muslim, who attended an ashram (school), and won't recite the Pledge of Allegiance or hold his hand up during the National Anthem. And his middle name is Hussein! If we elect him, the terrorists have won!

Seriously, does anyone believe this crap? OK, maybe those folks who petitioned to ban DiHydrogen MonOxide, or those so entrenched in the culture of fear currently being propagated by the current CiC and his cronies that they've lost all ability to think for themselves and make up their own minds.

Come to think of it that does seem to be a majority of the populace, at least based on the last couple of major elections. Maybe we are all doomed.

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post #20 of 35 Old Jan 8th, 2008, 7:03 pm Thread Starter
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I'm sorry, did you answer the original question there? I couldn't tell.


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post #21 of 35 Old Jan 8th, 2008, 7:38 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalLT
LOL! Too funny.

We'll see whose laughing in November.

You mean when the Republicans win back control because the Democrats didn't manage to produce anything that could be remotely considered progress?


Now, before some half-wit comes on here and accuses me of talking out of both sides of my mouth again, let me say that I'm an Independent and just as likely to vote Dem as Rep. I definitely don't want another member of the "good old boys" club. Don't be fooled, the skirt is a member.

I personally think we should vote everyone out, every election, for the next 6-8 years. Maybe then, when all those hard earned dollars being spent by special interest groups don't bring the long term dividends they used to, we could actually get some progress out of our elected officials. Progress for the good of the country as a whole, driven by moderate thinking and common sense, not just what's good for the money men and any sheep they might have drinking the Kool-aid that week.


All joking aside, treating politics as a team sport is (IMHO) THE problem with our election process. Passion is good, blind passion is just that...blind.

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post #22 of 35 Old Jan 8th, 2008, 7:41 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoog62
I'm sorry, did you answer the original question there? I couldn't tell.
I was just about to do that. Thanks for the segue...

Yes, I think both Hillary and Obama are electable. I don't think much of the country has a "problem" with a female President or an African-American President.

I won't be voting for either of them, though. It's not the gender or the race, it's the kind of person they are, or what they stand for... or at least appear to be after countless speeches, photo ops, etc.

Hillary's handlers need to tell her that when she raises her voice, she gets shrill and bitchy. Once she starts sounding strident in a speech all I can hear in my mind are the Martians from "Mars Attacks". Go get the movie, FF to any scene where Martians speak and you'll know what I'm talking about. "WRACK RANCK WRANCK... WRAAANCK!!!!"

Obama's handlers need to tell him that when he gets excited during a speech he starts to sound like Jesse Jackson. Ugh.

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post #23 of 35 Old Jan 8th, 2008, 7:52 pm
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Well, I do think it interesting that the front runners so far are a woman and a black man. Guess the Dem's think people are so fed up with the good ol' boy network that they can pretty much put anyone forward. Of course, they majorly miscalculated the gullibility of the voters the last time out, so who knows?

The biggest strikes against Obama seem to be that he's black (even if folks don't say it directly) and that he's "inexperienced" whatever that means. Hillary carries a lot of baggage that they like to call "experience" and I do think her gender works against her (even if folks won't say that, either).

For me, neither of those issues matters much but then again I'm not a "typical" voter. I do think that the only reason these two are making the progress they are is because the other side hasn't really come up with a decent challenger yet.

So yeah, I think either of them are electable, but neither is a shoe-in by any means. Still, November is a long way away.

But then again I didn't think they'd elect W twice, so what do I know?

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post #24 of 35 Old Jan 8th, 2008, 8:39 pm
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It is hard to imagine that Senator Clinton will be able to overcome negatives in the high 40s. I guess we will see.

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post #25 of 35 Old Jan 8th, 2008, 8:48 pm
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As of this moment (9:50 pm EST), Hillary has a slight lead over Obama in the NH primary.

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post #26 of 35 Old Jan 8th, 2008, 10:59 pm
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I still think Obama will get the nomination. And the general election.
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post #27 of 35 Old Jan 9th, 2008, 10:14 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoog62
........ and living in the south, I just not sure if America is ready to elect a black man.
I hope you are wrong, I realy thought America was past all that. I am shocked.
Looks like the big guns have tried to smear him as well
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/22/obama.madrassa/

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Madrasah (Arabic: مدرسة) is the Arabic word for any type of school, secular or religious (of any religion).

So all those posters that think that a Madrasah is some kind of anti-American establishment are just ignorent.

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post #28 of 35 Old Feb 1st, 2008, 9:25 am
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post #29 of 35 Old Feb 1st, 2008, 11:58 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grifscoots
I'm liking Ron Paul more everyday.

I just love the way Hillary's campaign went from Experience to Change. Flip flopping, mealy mouthed politicians.

The professional politician needs to go. It's no longer for the people, by the people.
As a long time registered Libertarian I agree. Most Americans are Libetarians, they just dont know it. If you dont believe me, take the one minute quiz and look at the program:

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

http://www.lp.org/issues/introduction.shtml

You see...Libetarians are not the fringe lunetics that we are often made out to be - with a few exceptions-

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post #30 of 35 Old Feb 1st, 2008, 6:22 pm
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Wikipedia

"Polls indicate that 10 to 20 percent of voting-age Americans have libertarian views, with "libertarian" being understood as agreeing with conservatives on economic issues and with liberals on personal freedom"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism

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post #31 of 35 Old Feb 1st, 2008, 6:45 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StillJustJerry
"Polls indicate that 10 to 20 percent of voting-age Americans have libertarian views, with "libertarian" being understood as agreeing with conservatives on economic issues and with liberals on personal freedom"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism
I think 10 to 20 percent is on the low side but certainly a great start. If more people would look into libertarianism that number would go up.

If we could ever gather 20% at the polls, political discussion in the country would change for the better. The main obstacle has been the lack of a strong presidential candidate.

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post #32 of 35 Old Feb 1st, 2008, 9:35 pm
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Change?

So do the Obama supporters feel that partnering up with the Kennedy's will bring "change" to the White House?

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post #33 of 35 Old Feb 1st, 2008, 10:39 pm
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Prediction: In the weeks prior to the Democratic Convention, Al Gore will swoop in with his fatherly, "I can save America just like I saved the world from global warming". It will cause a disturbance in the force nearly like Chicago in 1968.

I don't care what the rules and tradition are regarding primary delegates. The delegates can (and I believe will) turn on Hillary and Obama as the campaign machines start to cause the Democratic Party to "eat their own young".

McCain is such a centrist that he will make a grand showing. He's conservative enough to satisfy Republicans and liberal enough to satisfy Democrats. At this point, it's about bringing people together rather than driving additional wedges between us.

At this point, I don't give a flying flip who wins. Just as long as the opposite side controls Congress. In terms of economic growth, having the party of the President opposed by the party of Congress is good for the economy (most of the time). Some of the greatest growth this country had in the past 50 years occurred when Clinton faced a Republican Congress and Reagan faced a Democratic Congress.


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post #34 of 35 Old Feb 2nd, 2008, 8:47 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljeffe
Prediction: In the weeks prior to the Democratic Convention, Al Gore will swoop in with his fatherly, "I can save America just like I saved the world from global warming". It will cause a disturbance in the force nearly like Chicago in 1968.
Lost five bucks on Gore; I had him coming in by Thanksgiving.

Dave Hoogerland

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post #35 of 35 Old Feb 19th, 2008, 5:17 pm
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Re: Electable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoog62
....I feel Hillary will guarantee whomever runs from the right will get elected....
From the right? Guess that will be someone OTHER than Mccain!
Quote:
Originally Posted by joegottberg
....Does this sound idiotic and unbelievable to you?....
Not at all! Straight out of the 90's: the decade of fraud and deceit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by grifscoots
....I just love the way Hillary's campaign went from experience to change....
Classic fraud and deceit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lnowell
....Hillary is a raving socialist and borderline communist....
Yeah, but the trains run on time! What's a little Communism in the overall scheme of things!
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveDragon
....What you won't find in the Clinton Museum and Library....
More fraud and deceit?!
Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
....Of course, they majorly miscalculated the gullibility of the voters the last time out....
Just like the prosecution miscalculated the gullibility of the "OJ" jury?!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang
As a long time registered Libertarian I agree....
Running in the circles I do, and supporting the decriminalization of all drugs, causes my compadres to get their proverbial panties in a MAJOR wad!
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.Kinsey
So do the Obama supporters feel that partnering up with the Kennedy's will bring "change" to the White House?
Sure! I would recommend a ten day waiting period for those "assault" vehicles, however!
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljeffe
....I don't give a flying flip who wins. Just as long as the opposite side controls Congress....
Whether we elect the socialist/communist Obama or Mccain, we will be just as broke just as fast!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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Last edited by jayjacobson; Feb 19th, 2008 at 6:12 pm.
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