IBR slams BMW - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 35 Old Sep 5th, 2007, 1:58 pm Thread Starter
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IBR slams BMW

Just ran across this:

The Tarnished Blue and White Roundel
A disproportionate number of the DNFs fall on the shoulders of BMW. BMW
failed several riders, demonstrating that they are no longer capable of
building motorcycles that can run 11,000 miles in 11 days without a
significant fraction experiencing a catastrophic drivetrain failure of
some sort. BMW of North America has requested contact information for
the riders who experienced failures. The riders BMW should be more
concerned about are the thousands of unsuspecting souls who will
breakdown in the future because the company has lost its previous
ability to either design durable drivetrain components or (more likely)
adequately monitor production and assembly quality. It's way, way past
time for BMW to fix its drivetrain reliability problems. A good start
might be to acknowledge that there is a problem.

For the entire article:
http://www.ironbuttrally.com/IBR/2007.cfm?DocID=45


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post #2 of 35 Old Sep 5th, 2007, 3:53 pm
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Well said Iron Butt assoc. !!!!!!!

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post #3 of 35 Old Sep 5th, 2007, 4:13 pm
 
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post #4 of 35 Old Sep 5th, 2007, 4:24 pm
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Unfortunately I'm with Joe on this one.

This would be a good subject for a poll..

"How many of you believe BMW will EVER do anything about their flawed final drive."


I for one don't think they give a rats a$$ about any of us.

It's been proven on too many occasions.


John

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post #5 of 35 Old Sep 5th, 2007, 4:28 pm
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I'm just wandering why there is not final drive failures on the older models and just on the newer ones when they jumped to 1200 cc's. Last year I put 9,030 on my 1100lt in 13 days and had no problems with the bike itself just my clutch cable started ripping, but held up from Boise, ID to home straight through. Of course I was skipping some gears when driving to baby it home. I'm still kind of debating selling my 1100 because it is so reliable. I've already lost a driveshaft seal on my 1200 and my rear drive is leaking oil at a seal. Not too difficult things to fix but my 1100 has 3 times the miles and no problems but using a bit of oil when revved at high rpm's. I still love my 1200. I got it cheap and can afford to put some money in to it.

Would it be possible at all to inclose a belt drive system? I was just pondering this idea. If they only negative is it slips in the rain.

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post #6 of 35 Old Sep 5th, 2007, 4:40 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPSpen
Unfortunately I'm with Joe on this one.

This would be a good subject for a poll..

"How many of you believe BMW will EVER do anything about their flawed final drive."


I for one don't think they give a rats a$$ about any of us.

It's been proven on too many occasions.


John
That was pretty much my opinion in this earlier post:

http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showpost...6&postcount=56

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post #7 of 35 Old Sep 5th, 2007, 6:04 pm
 
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There has been so much BS on this forum and others, like BMW MOA about the FD failure rate... One poll after another,, its enough to make ya want to puke!!!!!!!

A very,, very small number of people have had FD failure over the past few years but really...........

Any, and I mean any one of you with anything resembling a fact, post some information about how many FD have really failed..... Your 4% is pure laughable phony bull......

BMW sold a little over one hundred thousand bikes last year,,Now I know the 650's are belt and all that but there wasn't nearly 4 thousand FD failures on 06's........

In the last five years there would have to bee close to 20 thousand FD failures to reach your 4%......... That, I just don't buy........

These threads are really getting old when NONE of you have any facts about this subject unless you had a FD failure then your only sure about 1......

And if you have had yours fail more than once its because whoever repaired it didn't have the skill to do it right.....If you are unaware or don't know how to measure and adjust tolerances you will never get it right.........

Anyway someone show some 4% proof would ya????
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post #8 of 35 Old Sep 5th, 2007, 6:27 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveDragon
... Since our collective voices aren't loud enough for BMW acknowledge the issues; who's voice do you feel would be loud enough to force them to acknowledge the issues? ...
I would hope that an organization like the IBR might just have enough clout to be heard. Obviously, we would all love for the FD problem to be acknowledged, given attention, and resolved -- whether the real failure rate is 4%, or any other percentage.

I'm not an engineer and have no claims of having any real knowledge on these subjects, but it seems odd that BMW can build a sophisticated collection of engineered components, one of which fails (OK, seems to fail) at a higher-than-expected rate.

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post #9 of 35 Old Sep 5th, 2007, 9:21 pm
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petepeterson
There has been so much BS on this forum and others, like BMW MOA about the FD failure rate... One poll after another,, its enough to make ya want to puke!!!!!!!

A very,, very small number of people have had FD failure over the past few years but really...........

Any, and I mean any one of you with anything resembling a fact, post some information about how many FD have really failed..... Your 4% is pure laughable phony bull......

BMW sold a little over one hundred thousand bikes last year,,Now I know the 650's are belt and all that but there wasn't nearly 4 thousand FD failures on 06's........

In the last five years there would have to bee close to 20 thousand FD failures to reach your 4%......... That, I just don't buy........

These threads are really getting old when NONE of you have any facts about this subject unless you had a FD failure then your only sure about 1......

And if you have had yours fail more than once its because whoever repaired it didn't have the skill to do it right.....If you are unaware or don't know how to measure and adjust tolerances you will never get it right.........

Anyway someone show some 4% proof would ya????
Ive pretty much avoided these conversations because it seems like a lot of strong opinions on both sides. Up until the IBR i pretty much felt the same way as Pete... like things were just getting blown out of proportion. But i gotta say that the IBR really swayed my opinion. Thats just too small of a concentration of riders to have that many of the same type of failures.

ive got 2 1200's and other than a seal going bad on one with ~40k miles i havent had any problems **knock on wood** but im really getting scared of my GS. I love the bike, and will take the FD failure with the grain of salt if it happens. But it does baffle me as to why BMW wont address the issue at all.
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post #10 of 35 Old Sep 5th, 2007, 9:27 pm
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Pete take a deep breath




and exhale slowly



repeat as necessary

Mike in Pittsburgh

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post #11 of 35 Old Sep 5th, 2007, 9:29 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torpedo
But it does baffle me as to why BMW wont address the issue at all.
THAT is simple to explain. Short of replacing a fair amount of FD's BMW has no option. Now the question becomes: Even *IF* BMW would own up. What to replace those FD's with? With the new and improved that has the same number of failures? Try to go down that path, that train of thought. If they have nothing to replace it with, they just CANNOT do anything other than maybe stop selling bikes alltogether. WHICH would fall into the category of throwing the baby out with the bath water.

So,,, in good corporate bahavior the problem gets ignored (at least publically) because even IF someone would get hurt paying that individual off (given that you can prove that a failing FD was the cause, and the BMW knew and knowingly did nothing) is cheaper than all the other alternatives.

Quite simple in the end, isn't it?

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post #12 of 35 Old Sep 5th, 2007, 9:36 pm
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy
THAT is simple to explain. Short of replacing a fair amount of FD's BMW has no option. Now the question becomes: Even *IF* BMW would own up. What to replace those FD's with? With the new and improved that has the same number of failures? Try to go down that path, that train of thought. If they have nothing to replace it with, they just CANNOT do anything other than maybe stop selling bikes alltogether. WHICH would fall into the category of throwing the baby out with the bath water.

So,,, in good corporate bahavior the problem gets ignored (at least publically) because even IF someone would get hurt paying that individual off (given that you can prove that a failing FD was the cause, and the BMW knew and knowingly did nothing) is cheaper than all the other alternatives.

Quite simple in the end, isn't it?
But in the long run arent they losing tons of business because of it??? stuff like this IBR has to hit them in the wallet and the long term effects from this on BMW's long reputation of dependability has to be huge.
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post #13 of 35 Old Sep 5th, 2007, 9:42 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torpedo
But in the long run arent they losing tons of business because of it??? stuff like this IBR has to hit them in the wallet and the long term effects from this on BMW's long reputation of dependability has to be huge.
Still less damage than stop selling bikes. Right?

I am positive that a group of engineers is feaverishly trying to solve that problem in the fatherland.

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post #14 of 35 Old Sep 5th, 2007, 11:43 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petepeterson
Any, and I mean any one of you with anything resembling a fact, post some information about how many FD have really failed..... Your 4% is pure laughable phony bull......
You are right - the 4% figure that is constantly being thrown around is from BMW - it was THEIR estimate.

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post #15 of 35 Old Sep 6th, 2007, 12:04 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petepeterson
There has been so much BS on this forum and others, like BMW MOA about the FD failure rate... One poll after another,, its enough to make ya want to puke!!!!!!!

A very,, very small number of people have had FD failure over the past few years but really...........

Any, and I mean any one of you with anything resembling a fact, post some information about how many FD have really failed..... Your 4% is pure laughable phony bull......

BMW sold a little over one hundred thousand bikes last year,,Now I know the 650's are belt and all that but there wasn't nearly 4 thousand FD failures on 06's........

In the last five years there would have to bee close to 20 thousand FD failures to reach your 4%......... That, I just don't buy........

These threads are really getting old when NONE of you have any facts about this subject unless you had a FD failure then your only sure about 1......

And if you have had yours fail more than once its because whoever repaired it didn't have the skill to do it right.....If you are unaware or don't know how to measure and adjust tolerances you will never get it right.........

Anyway someone show some 4% proof would ya????
Pete, you have not been here when the FACTS were developed, and mostly from BMW reps mouths.

First of all, the 4% rate was for LT's ONLY, not BMW models across the board. There have certainly been FD failures on other models, but not nearly at the rate of the LT.

The rate for LT's is probably NOT that high overall now, as the failure rate seems to have dropped off considerably since 2003.

At CCR Santa Fe, the BMW reps stated that at that time a total of 7,200 LTs had been sold in the USA, with around 260 Final Drive failures. That is 3.6%. When mine failed on the way to CCR Gatlinburg, we had many discussions with the BMW Tech Rep, and he begrudgingly admitted that it was "around 4%" at that time.

The 4% rate has just been parroted since then, although among all the LT's sold since the introduction in 1999 until now the rate is probably less than that. Some may have stated that for ALL BMW models, but it was never stated for those of us in the know at the time to be for anything but LT's.

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post #16 of 35 Old Sep 6th, 2007, 7:45 am Thread Starter
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I know the FD failure is scaring some people off. I've seen way too many comments on other boards about it and you just can't convince them it's really not that bad. Kinda like the cracked frame on the Wing a few years ago. That hurt Honda's sales, but Honda was forced to fix it.

What I like to hear is that BMW is going to those in the IBR and asking them about their failures. That shows they do want to do something about it - at least to me it does.

Andy does bring a good point. So what if they do a recall? What replace it with another poorly designed unit that will fail also?

I think it's a crapshoot. Buy the bike and see what happens. It may never fail.

What IS interesting is that I've never heard of one single FD failure on any other brand. You'd think BMW would grab one of those and tear it down to see how they differ.


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post #17 of 35 Old Sep 6th, 2007, 7:53 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
At CCR Santa Fe, the BMW reps stated that at that time a total of 7,200 LTs had been sold in the USA, with around 260 Final Drive failures. That is 3.6%. When mine failed on the way to CCR Gatlinburg, we had many discussions with the BMW Tech Rep, and he begrudgingly admitted that it was "around 4%" at that time.

The 4% rate has just been parroted since then, although among all the LT's sold since the introduction in 1999 until now the rate is probably less than that. Some may have stated that for ALL BMW models, but it was never stated for those of us in the know at the time to be for anything but LT's.
David;

One slight correction....

Tom, the BMW rep attending at Santa Fe, gave the number of 260 as the total number of claims (LT only) filed by dealers for repairs related to the rear drive. If you remember he could not separate how many were actual drive failures as they could have been a mix of repairs, replacement, checks for noise, etc. 260 was not necessarily the number of actual failures. I asked him if a complaint of noise from the rear drive that was actually caused by a cupping tire could be written up as a rear drive problem, he said it depended upon how the dealer wrote the claim.

While you may have been given a number at Gatlinburg, I was never able to get any hard data out of that rep.

The reality is that we have no real numbers because BMW won't provide them. So far, while the newer style drive is failing, according to the few dealers I have spoken with and according to the natuional service manager for BMW Motorrad USA, the numbers are far fewer thatn we experienced in the early LTs. It also seems that the numbers of LT drive failures was reduced after the bearing change sometime in the 2002 model year.


I have not had one fail so far, so I guess I am a 96 percenter.

Randy Prade
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post #18 of 35 Old Sep 6th, 2007, 8:12 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwsdad
What I like to hear is that BMW is going to those in the IBR and asking them about their failures. That shows they do want to do something about it - at least to me it does.
I agree. There has been a change of the guard and an apparrent change in attitude by BMW Motorrad USA during this year. I am hopeful that thius change will bear fruit in the next year or so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwsdad
What IS interesting is that I've never heard of one single FD failure on any other brand. You'd think BMW would grab one of those and tear it down to see how they differ.
They do fail in other brands, but very infrequently. The GL1800 has had a few according to the Honda dealer I visit with. They are a small dealer and have changed one under warranty. Obviously the units that are not single-sided will not have the same loading on the crown bearing and will necessarily be less prone to failure. Of those designs I would bet the failures are as infrequent as automotive differentials. While it is no excuse for the number of failures we experience, the average BMW gets ridden longer, harder, faster and probably with greater gross weight than most other brands.

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post #19 of 35 Old Sep 6th, 2007, 8:25 am
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BFD
By the numbers people.
Who is the IBR in the world of motorcycling? NOBODY NOTHING MEAN NADDA .
While they mean something in this forum because of the large number of high milage riders, and we have a great respect for them. In the whole they are less than .001 of a % of riders.
BMW itself is a very small pool in the total number of motorcycles out there.
You want to do something that will get their attention, every person with a blog or web-site that has a BMW should advise not to buy them until the issue is addressed. Give links and stories of final drive failures etc.
The large number of riders on this site that have multiple BMW Motorcycles(self included) would make a collective voice that has weight behind its words, not just queef in the vagina of the mother company .
Now if you really want to do something it is your move, get it started .

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post #20 of 35 Old Sep 6th, 2007, 8:50 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy
They do fail in other brands, but very infrequently. The GL1800 has had a few according to the Honda dealer I visit with. They are a small dealer and have changed one under warranty. Obviously the units that are not single-sided will not have the same loading on the crown bearing and will necessarily be less prone to failure. Of those designs I would bet the failures are as infrequent as automotive differentials. While it is no excuse for the number of failures we experience, the average BMW gets ridden longer, harder, faster and probably with greater gross weight than most other brands.
While I can't speak to all the other brands, I can speak to the Concours. Having 125K on my, and knowing several others with that kind of mileage and higher, there have been no failures - not one. Now, it could be, and I think highly likely, that you are correct in that the single-sided swingarm puts more loading on the bearing. And granted the Connie doesn't weigh as much, but I can guarantee you they are ridden as hard as any bike out there. Now, what will be interesting is to see how Kawasaki's new design holds up under all that power and a single-sided swingarm.


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post #21 of 35 Old Sep 6th, 2007, 8:57 am
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The new Connie does not have a single sided swing arm. The rear axel is supported on both sides.

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post #22 of 35 Old Sep 6th, 2007, 9:12 am
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I personally would not have a problem with the rear end failure rate (whatever it is) on the LT if BMW would just announce that they are stepping up and extending the warranty on the rear ends to say 150,000 miles.

It would be interesting to know exactly how many replacement LT crown bearings and replacement LT rear ends have been shipped from Germany to the US in the last 6 years. That little piece of information would give a very good indication of the true failure rate.

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post #23 of 35 Old Sep 6th, 2007, 9:17 am
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"the average BMW gets ridden longer, harder, faster and probably with greater gross weight than most other brands."

Awww, shucks - I just could NOT help myself:

The names HAVE been changed to protect the innocent.
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post #24 of 35 Old Sep 6th, 2007, 9:17 am
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I personally would not have a problem with the rear end failure rate (whatever it is) on the LT if BMW would just announce that they are stepping up and extending the warranty on the rear ends to say 150,000 miles.
I agree. Taking the financial burden off the owners would go a long way to making this a non issue for most people. Additionally it would be even better if they were to share some of the failure analysis data and plans to eliminate the problem in the future.

Res ipsa loquitur, sed quid in infernos dicet?

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post #25 of 35 Old Sep 6th, 2007, 9:19 am
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I agree with you. I don't expect any of my equipment to run forever with no problems, be it my snowblower, my PC, or my LT. I did however buy a BMW because the information I had at that time, showed them to be among the best for reliability.
All I really want for my bike, is to be able to go out and ride it, without worrying about it all the time. Hard to do, when you're always expecting the clutch lever to pull all the way in to the handlebar, or when you're half-expecting the clutch to slip when speeding up, or when you're wondering "was that a tar snake, or did the rear end just wiggle".
Other than that, the bike is fine.

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post #26 of 35 Old Sep 6th, 2007, 9:32 am
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What gets me is, We have an annual get together of 300-400 bikes.

Out of that number we usually have 2-4 failures of the drive.

That's every time we throw a party. This is something that we shouldn't have to be worrying about.

I think last year was the exception with possibly only 1-2 failures. Don't remember for sure.

I could accept the failure of the drive at mileages in excess of 100K but before that it just shouldn't happen.

BMW should at least warranty this item for 100K or so...That'd make me feel better for sure.

Maybe they're thinking, Ohh! a party ! We get to sell some drives this week.

This is a major assembly in the bike, Which has the potential to cause serious injury or death on failure. And still our government and the "company" itself sits back and does nothing because it's cheaper to do that than to step up and solve this issue.

It's easier to just pay off someone than to make things right these days.

Oh well, I guess we can all burn our bikes in protest !


John

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post #27 of 35 Old Sep 6th, 2007, 10:30 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy
David;

One slight correction....

Tom, the BMW rep attending at Santa Fe, gave the number of 260 as the total number of claims 9LT only) filed by dealers for repairs related to the rear drive. If you remember he could not separate how many were actual drive failures as they could have been a mix of repairs, replacement, checks for noise, etc. 260 was not necessarily the number of actual failures. I asked him if a complaint of noise from the rear drive that was actually caused by a cupping tire could be written up as a rear drive problem, he said it depended upon how the dealer wrote the claim.
Thanks for the correction. I now do recall him saying that it was "final drive repairs", or something of that nature.
Quote:

While you may have been given a number at Gatlinburg, I was never able to get any hard data out of that rep.
Since mine turned out to be one of the higher profile ones, due to the fact they had NO drives in the US to replace it, I ended up talking to the tech rep quite often. In one of the conversations the "around 4%" number kinda slipped out. I am sure he was not supposed to say anything, but you know how extended conversations go.
Quote:

The reality is that we have no real numbers because BMW won't provide them. So far, while the newer style drive is failing, according to the few dealers I have spoken with and according to the natuional service manager for BMW Motorrad USA, the numbers are far fewer thatn we experienced in the early LTs. It also seems that the numbers of LT drive failures was reduced after the bearing change sometime in the 2002 model year.


I have not had one fail so far, so I guess I am a 96 percenter.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
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post #28 of 35 Old Sep 6th, 2007, 10:53 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwsdad
That hurt Honda's sales, but Honda was forced to fix it.
I don't think anyone forced Honda. There was a big outcry, similar to what we periodically get with LT final drives, and Honda responded. To their credit, in my opinion. It was an enormous expense but it showed a lot of goodwill toward the company's customers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwsdad
What I like to hear is that BMW is going to those in the IBR and asking them about their failures. That shows they do want to do something about it - at least to me it does.
Talk is cheap. Until BMW shows some loyalty as a seller I will exhibit the same level of loyalty as a buyer. Which is NONE.
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post #29 of 35 Old Sep 6th, 2007, 11:57 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleRock
BFD
By the numbers people.
Who is the IBR in the world of motorcycling? NOBODY NOTHING MEAN NADDA .
While they mean something in this forum because of the large number of high milage riders, and we have a great respect for them. In the whole they are less than .001 of a % of riders.
BMW itself is a very small pool in the total number of motorcycles out there.
You want to do something that will get their attention, every person with a blog or web-site that has a BMW should advise not to buy them until the issue is addressed. Give links and stories of final drive failures etc.
The large number of riders on this site that have multiple BMWMotorcycles(self included) would make a collective voice that has weight behind its words, not just queef in the vagina of the mother company .
Now if you really want to do something it is your move, get it started .

Rock
A dinner on Saturday in St Louis before the IBR start was hosted by BMWMOA. It was free and open to all who were present at the Doubletree. The President of BMWMOA was on hand to welcome those in attendance, BMW IBR rider, owner or spectator. I ate well.
Why did they do this? I have no idea except to speculate that they did have an interest in the IBR on behalf of their members. Why else would they be spending BMWMOA member dues.
Given the endorsement (and perhaps unofficial) of the IBR by an organization such as BMWMOA by way of their presence at the IBR, I can only guess that BMW motorcycles in the IBR was important to the membership. Their performance will certainly not go unnoticed by the membership.
Perhaps now BMWMOA will have something to say. Time will tell.

Mike,
LT owner and former BMWMOA member.

Mike
IBA #433
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post #30 of 35 Old Sep 6th, 2007, 2:01 pm
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I attended the CCR this year, and talked to several people there who have had rear drive failures on their LT's. In fact, at one table I sat at, there were two guys there--one had a 99 LT, and the other a 2000, and they both had failures on the rear drives. One of them had it fail twice. I spoke to at least 6 other people there who had failures, and again, one of them had had two drive failures. Most of these failures where within the first 35000 miles. Mind you this is a gathering of a relatively small group of people, and to have that many who have had failures is staggering in my mind--and I know I didn't talk to all the people there. I just read the other day on here, that at least on attendee had a failure on the way home. I have no idea if others did or not. Again, this a small group of people. I have a 2000, and I love the bike, but more and more I am feeling it is just a matter of time until my drive goes. I even had an opportunity to buy a slightly used rear drive off a wrecked LT and snatched it up. I figure if I never use it, I can easily sell it for what I paid for it. There is a demand! I am not gonna sell the bike, but it isn't a non issue for me. BMW should extend the warranty and make them retroactive to all models. I don't expect a bike to run forever, but I do expect one to run a reasonable time without breakage--certainly more than 35000 miles. JMO
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post #31 of 35 Old Sep 7th, 2007, 2:20 pm
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
Pete, you have not been here when the FACTS were developed, and mostly from BMW reps mouths.

First of all, the 4% rate was for LT's ONLY, not BMW models across the board. There have certainly been FD failures on other models, but not nearly at the rate of the LT.

The rate for LT's is probably NOT that high overall now, as the failure rate seems to have dropped off considerably since 2003.

At CCR Santa Fe, the BMW reps stated that at that time a total of 7,200 LTs had been sold in the USA, with around 260 Final Drive failures. That is 3.6%. When mine failed on the way to CCR Gatlinburg, we had many discussions with the BMW Tech Rep, and he begrudgingly admitted that it was "around 4%" at that time.

The 4% rate has just been parroted since then, although among all the LT's sold since the introduction in 1999 until now the rate is probably less than that. Some may have stated that for ALL BMW models, but it was never stated for those of us in the know at the time to be for anything but LT's.

Now, if you can find a barn with a tall enough door, please ride your high horse into it.
So IBR throws off on BMW, you defend anyone who uses the phony 4% BS and yet not one single LT FD failed in the IBR rally and you ignore the fact that very few FD's have really failed in the last 5 years... My horse isn't that tall, your just too used to stooping low to try and make your opinion sound like its a fact.... And your posse seems to keep chiming in with you...

Try to use facts whenever possible so I will never have a reason to post here would ya?????
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post #32 of 35 Old Sep 7th, 2007, 3:43 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petepeterson
So IBR throws off on BMW, you defend anyone who uses the phony 4% BS and yet not one single LT FD failed in the IBR rally and you ignore the fact that very few FD's have really failed in the last 5 years... My horse isn't that tall, your just too used to stooping low to try and make your opinion sound like its a fact.... And your posse seems to keep chiming in with you...

Try to use facts whenever possible so I will never have a reason to post here would ya?????
I was not defending anyone. I also said that overall number now is NOT likely anywhere near 4%, even on LTs.

I was just trying to let you know where the 4% number (pretty correct in the early years of the LT) came from, and that it has never been used for all models of BMW as you inferred, and not even correct for the LT now.

The absolute LAST thing I will do is defend this abysmal failure rate. Even though MUCH less than 4% in actuality, it is still an absolutely unacceptable failure rate for any vehicle manufacturer, except BMW, who seems to be accepting it with no problem.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
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post #33 of 35 Old Sep 7th, 2007, 4:02 pm
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No FD failures in this years IBR is completely meaningless to the overall failure rate for the LT.

I don't know and don't care what the actual rate is, but....Let's say there were 200 LTs at this years CCR, I'm willing to bet that there were at least 8 that had experienced FD failures some time in their "lives".

Dave Hoogerland

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post #34 of 35 Old Sep 7th, 2007, 10:35 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveDragon
Pete, you may want to step away from the computer for a while, and take a deep breath, ponder your belly button lint for a time, and perhaps consider the fact that Dave Shealey is a very senior member of the community with an enormous wealth of engineering knowledge in many areas, not the least of which is the K1200LT, inside and out, top to bottom and other dimensions as well.

Over years of community participation Dave has earned the respect of this community by providing accurate, factual and timely mechanical knowledge and hands on mechanical/electrical work for no more than the love of doing it.

The percentages, facts, figures, lies, damn lies and statistics being overly scrutinized by you in this thread are part of the collective common knowledge of the members that have been around long enough to remember exactly where they all came from.

You too can posses this knowledge, just by reading the thousands of threads/posts available to you in this on-line community for yourself.

That my friend would be my recommendation.
I'll happily second that recommendation.

David Taylor
San Jose, CA
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post #35 of 35 Old Sep 8th, 2007, 1:27 pm
 
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Mr. Shealey, your clarification in your last post made allot more sense to me than the way I interpreted your other post..... Thanks I suspect we are singing from the same sheet of music just in different keys............

Dave Dragon, you can get back in line so the posse doesn't look out of step.............
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