Saluting the Flag - Attn Active Duty and Vets - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 14 Old Sep 3rd, 2007, 10:28 am Thread Starter
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Saluting the Flag - Attn Active Duty and Vets

WASHINGTON, D.C. - U.S. Senator Jim Inhofe (R-Okla..) today praised the passage by unanimous consent of his bill (S.1877) clarifying U.S. law to allow veterans and servicemen not in uniform to salute the flag. Current law (US Code Title 4, Chapter 1) states that veterans and servicemen not in uniform should place their hand over their heart without clarifying whether they can or should salute the flag.

"The salute is a form of honor and respect, representing pride in one's military service," Senator Inhofe said. "Veterans and service members continue representing the military services even when not in uniform. "Unfortunately, current U.S. law leaves confusion as to whether veterans and service members out of uniform can or should salute the flag. My legislation will clarify this regulation, allowing veterans and servicemen alike to salute the flag, whether they are in uniform or not. "I look forward to seeing those who have served saluting proudly at baseball games, parades, and formal events. I believe this is an appropriate way to honor and recognize the 25 million veterans in the United States who have served in the military and remain as role models to others citizens. Those who are currently serving or have served in the military have earned this right, and their recognition will be an inspiration to others."

This Bill was passed July 25, 2007. Let your veteran friends know about the Passage of this Bill.


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post #2 of 14 Old Sep 5th, 2007, 9:55 am
 
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Thanks for the info Steve, its about time, i will pass on to other Vets here...Mark
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post #3 of 14 Old Sep 5th, 2007, 10:34 am
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I have to ask:

1) What happened before this law when a veteran saluted the flag?
2) What would happen to me (with no military service) if I saluted the flag?
3) If the answer to both of the above is, "Not a damn thing," then what is the purpose of this nugget of legislation, other than political grandstanding?

Am I missing something?
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post #4 of 14 Old Sep 5th, 2007, 10:47 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalLT
I have to ask:

1) What happened before this law when a veteran saluted the flag?
2) What would happen to me (with no military service) if I saluted the flag?
3) If the answer to both of the above is, "Not a damn thing," then what is the purpose of this nugget of legislation, other than political grandstanding?

Am I missing something?
1) Nothing ever happened to me. 3) I think you hit the nail on the head. And I wonder what riders have been slipped on on the bill?

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post #5 of 14 Old Sep 5th, 2007, 10:53 am
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Well, Dave, I salute the flag too. But I don't think I need Congress' approval to do so.

I didn't know there was contention. Thanks for clearing that up.
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post #6 of 14 Old Sep 5th, 2007, 11:56 am
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Feel good legislation is good for votes. Don't analyze it, or you'll lose the high. It's a lot easier than solving any serious problems.

It has the added advantage of clogging the law books, and giving the state the power to bust the head of someone it doesn't like for saluting the flag when they're not a vet. Of course, it'll never be used. Trust us (so why is it a statute then?). Unless we need to trump up some charges on someone (oh, that's it).

I guess that's that freedom we're always at war for. To tell people how they're allowed to honor, if they choose to, a symbolic representation of something. A guideline is one thing, but this is not that; it's the force of law, enforced through aggression, should the state so choose. We're careless with how we use state force.

I don't even know what the flag represents: the history of the country, the government (yuck), the people, the military, ... I think everyone just picks what they want it to stand for, and honor it for that, which is probably a good thing.

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post #7 of 14 Old Sep 5th, 2007, 11:57 am
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Without getting into the history of the military salute or trying to start a rules and reg debate, it is just a matter of protocol. Prior to this legislation proper protocol for service members and retirees was right hand over the heart while in civilian clothing. No one would say anything to you if you did salute. Just a matter of protocol. Kinda like flying the flag at your house. Protocol says you should have it properly lit if you fly it at night. I don't think the flag flying police will come get you no more than the salute police would get you. For my part showing genuine respect for the colors even if your protocol is a little off is what matters.

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post #8 of 14 Old Sep 5th, 2007, 12:08 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fedexrider
Without getting into the history of the military salute or trying to start a rules and reg debate, it is just a matter of protocol. Prior to this legislation proper protocol for service members and retirees was right hand over the heart while in civilian clothing. No one would say anything to you if you did salute. Just a matter of protocol. Kinda like flying the flag at your house. Protocol says you should have it properly lit if you fly it at night. I don't think the flag flying police will come get you no more than the salute police would get you. For my part showing genuine respect for the colors even if your protocol is a little off is what matters.
It does happen. Anti-freedom laws are enforced when people get the urge.

Here , a vet was fined for flying the US flag upside down to protest the Iraq war. Luckily, these cases are usually shot down in court. For a government rep, that's just their job, paid for by taxpayers, but for the general public, it's an added expense of time and money. It's just not right.

When a government takes over a people’s economic life it becomes absolute, and when it has become absolute it destroys the arts, the minds, the liberties and the meaning of the people it governs.
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post #9 of 14 Old Sep 5th, 2007, 12:36 pm
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Until fairly recently Marines were taught that if they were in civilian clothing that they should stand at attention and face the flag during the National Anthem. It seems that someone decided that they had been getting this wrong for a long time and changed the training to place your right hand over your heart.

Res ipsa loquitur, sed quid in infernos dicet?

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post #10 of 14 Old Sep 5th, 2007, 1:01 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveDragon
Liberal - A person so open minded that their brain fell out!
That implies there was something in there to start with

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post #11 of 14 Old Sep 6th, 2007, 1:00 am
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The Bill is one paragraph. Hardly a rider or clogged law book within sight. Here's the new text of the law:

Quote:
During the ceremony of hoisting or lowering the flag or when the flag is passing in a parade or in review, those present in uniform should render the military salute. Members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute. All other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, or if applicable, remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Citizens of other countries should stand at attention. All such conduct toward the flag in a moving column should be rendered at the moment the flag passes.
The use of "should" and "may" should tip you off that this is not a criminal statute and would not be used by the government to whack anyone over the head. The purpose of these sections is to inform Americans how to render respect to their nation if they choose to do so. Codifying this in federal law serves as an expression of The People that these symbols have meaning to us and establishes uniformity of practice.

Should you wish to read and observe these practices too, you may read the federal guidance on point here.
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post #12 of 14 Old Sep 6th, 2007, 9:39 am
 
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Do Draft dodgers, malcontents and cowards have reunions ?
If they do....what do they talk about ?
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post #13 of 14 Old Sep 6th, 2007, 10:09 am
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I see ... only one little paragraph. Thanks for the clarity. Of course, it's not clear how much time of Congress was used to draft, present and vote on that one little graph. Call me old-fashioned, but it might have been a more productive use of Congress' time to create a few little paragraphs that address bigger issues.

I generally am in favor of less government, rather than more. The idea that we need more laws is generally a liberal characteristic, isn't it?

: )
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post #14 of 14 Old Sep 6th, 2007, 3:48 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midwilshire
The Bill is one paragraph. Hardly a rider or clogged law book within sight. Here's the new text of the law:



The use of "should" and "may" should tip you off that this is not a criminal statute and would not be used by the government to whack anyone over the head. The purpose of these sections is to inform Americans how to render respect to their nation if they choose to do so. Codifying this in federal law serves as an expression of The People that these symbols have meaning to us and establishes uniformity of practice.

Should you wish to read and observe these practices too, you may read the federal guidance on point here.
Thanks for the link. Reading through it, it does appear that the only section that makes a lack of adherence criminal is using the flag for advertising, section 3. The rest does seem to be guidelines only. I stand corrected.

When a government takes over a people’s economic life it becomes absolute, and when it has become absolute it destroys the arts, the minds, the liberties and the meaning of the people it governs.
- Maxwell Anderson

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