New Haven, CT and Illegal Immigrants get ID Cards, What do you think about this? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 24 Old Jul 23rd, 2007, 2:29 pm Thread Starter
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Question New Haven, CT and Illegal Immigrants get ID Cards, What do you think about this?

By Lucy Nalpathanchil Sun Jul 22, 8:36 AM ET

NEW HAVEN, Connecticut (Reuters) - As many U.S. cities and states arrest illegal immigrants in raids and toughen laws against them, a Connecticut city is offering to validate them under a controversial, first-in-the-nation ID card program.


Starting Tuesday, New Haven will offer illegal immigrants municipal identification cards that allow access to city services such as libraries and a chance to open bank accounts.

Supporters say the cards will improve public safety and give undocumented workers protections now afforded legal residents. Critics contend it will unleash a flood of illegal immigration, straining services and wasting taxpayer money.

New Haven officials overwhelmingly approved the program last month in a 25 to 1 vote.

Backers and detractors alike say the program appears to fill a vacuum after Congress failed to act on immigration reform, leaving many towns and cities to struggle with how to deal with a growing undocumented population.

Kica Matos, a leader of local Latino advocacy group Junta for Progressive Action, said undocumented workers are often targeted by thieves and robbed because they carry cash, a result of not being able to open a bank account.

"Part of the reason they can't open bank accounts is because they don't have forms of identification that were valid," she said.

She said two banks had already agreed to accept the new city card, which will be offered to all New Haven residents, as legitimate identification sufficient for opening an account.

Matos estimates 3,000 to 5,000 illegal immigrants live in the city of 124,000 people, many from Mexico, Ecuador and Guatemala.

Yale University Law School, based in New Haven, helped research the city's idea and volunteered legal services. Several immigrants' rights groups also helped build up local support for the identification cards.

PROTESTS

Opponents hope to rally the public against it. Southern Connecticut Citizens for Immigration Reform says the ID cards will change "the entire country as we know it" and is organizing a protest on Tuesday at city hall.

"There are millions of illegal aliens right around us that when these ID cards are available to them, they will rush to them and get some identification that will allow them to go to other cities," said Ted Pechinski, who leads the group.

North Carolina-based Americans for Legal Immigration PAC has circulated a flier in 40 states urging illegal workers to move to New Haven, said its president William Gheen.

"Maybe New Haven needs to learn, if they want the illegals, then they'll get the illegals," he said.

His flier, in English and Spanish, says: "Come to New Haven CT for sanctuary. Bring your friends and family members quickly."

Officials in several cities including New York and San Francisco have expressed interest in possibly starting similar programs, said Matos at Junta for Progressive Action.

The new ID, she added, does not easily identify a person as an illegal immigrant. "That is the last thing that we want to have happen," she said. The card was created with several features to appeal to all residents, including a debit component and access to city services such as parks.

Fatima, an illegal immigrant from Mexico, said she is eager to apply for the card. "The ID will help me because it's a way to be in this country and get people to know who you are, especially for people who crossed the border and lost their papers," she said. "I feel safe here in New Haven."

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post #2 of 24 Old Jul 23rd, 2007, 2:41 pm
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Thought you needed a SSN to open a bank account (IRS Reg?)

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post #3 of 24 Old Jul 23rd, 2007, 3:11 pm
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Jim, are you trying to give me a tune-up???

This is one of the most insulting, slap in the face, over the top, namby-pamby ultra liberal, subversive, treasonous, perfidious, disintegrative, insulting, insidious and ruiness acts ever perpetrated against a populace. And to add insult to injury, the entire country has just finished voicing it's opposition to this issue overwhelmingly a few short weeks ago.

The irony here is that constantly we hear from the ultra-left about how the neocons and right-leaners run the show and cause the left to suffer untold injustices as a result of their unconscionable, morally destitute policies.

Hardeee, har, har, har.

P.S. I had heard about this issue a couple weeks ago, but I didn't realize there was a protest planned. Looks like tomorrow will be a sick day so I can attend. (technically this does make me sick, so it's not lying )

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post #4 of 24 Old Jul 23rd, 2007, 3:15 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PMitchell
Thought you needed a SSN to open a bank account (IRS Reg?)

Bank of America has been running ads nation wide saying that undocumented people can open bank accounts and transfer money at no cost.

Res ipsa loquitur, sed quid in infernos dicet?

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post #5 of 24 Old Jul 23rd, 2007, 3:20 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PMitchell
Thought you needed a SSN to open a bank account (IRS Reg?)
It seems that only applies to US Citizens. Actually I think they want two forms of identification, pass a credit check and have a clear Check Systems report (a banking system only report). Of course, OUR federal government may have waived that specific requirement - just for them. AND / OR the banks see a way to make some more money. They sure don't do anything for free.

Does not pass the smell test does it?

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post #6 of 24 Old Jul 23rd, 2007, 4:14 pm
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Thumbs down

And why would any city "protect" illegal immigrants when they cannot protect legal citizens? And why would any city allow illegal immigrants to have free access to municipal services paid for by legal citizens via taxes??? I don't want a bilingual library!!!

That is beyond unbelievable!!!

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post #7 of 24 Old Jul 23rd, 2007, 4:39 pm
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(Fatima, an illegal immigrant from Mexico, said she is eager to apply for the card. "The ID will help me because it's a way to be in this country and get people to know who you are, especially for people who crossed the border and lost their papers," she said. "I feel safe here in New Haven.")

Lost papers. Yup. Happens all the time.
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post #8 of 24 Old Jul 23rd, 2007, 4:44 pm
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Quote:
CRITERIA FOR ACCEPTABLE DOCUMENTS FOR MUNICIPAL ID
Two requirements: 1) proof of identity; 2) proof of residency


ACCEPTABLE FORMS FOR PROOF OF IDENTITY:
ONE of the following (CATEGORY “A” ID’s):
• Passport;
• U.S. Driver’s License;
• Birth Certificate; (for kids ok; for adults this plus photo id)
• Consular ID Card;
OR TWO of the following:
National identification card (must have photo, name, address, date of birth and expiration date;
• Foreign Driver’s license (current - NOT expired);
• Voter registration card
Military identification card (U.S. or foreign)
• Visa (current)
• ITIN card (must be accompanied by an id with a photograph)
At least one identification card must have a photo under either category A or B.
ACCEPTABLE PROOF OF RESIDENCY DOCUMENTS
• Rental or purchase agreement;
• Two or more utility bills with name and address;
• Insurance bill, bank statement, check book;
• Employment pay stub;
• Local property tax statement;
Proof of a minor enrolled in public or private school;
• Voter registration card:
• Library Card;
• Original documents from a health or social services organization attesting to the fact that the applicant is a New Haven resident

Hmmmm... doesn't sound so bad.
Let's see.. for hypothetical reasoning we'll use a North Korean in our example. We don't want to be accused of racial profiling, right?
So, our North Korean, ex-military ("nucular" scientist type) gets to Nuevo Haveno illegally... I'm sorry, I meant to say "undocumentorally" just in time to deliver a beautiful little ancho... I mean baby... and immediately sets upon our welfare system to collect welfare, foodstamps, WIC, housing assistance, heating assistance, and of course the piece de resistance - Blue Cross / Blue Shield... of course on top of the already 10's of thousands the actual birth cost. Then, he puts his beautiful little ancho... I mean baby into our public schools, hey, why not it's FREE right? But then of course, it will someday make HIS life better and really, that is what matters, isn't it?

So now our North Korean "friend" can go to Nuevo Haveno Town Hall and show:
-Foreign National I.D.
-Foreign Military I.D.
-Proof of child (ren) enrollment
-Proof of receiving health and social services.

As the saying goes "work harder, millions on welfare are counting on you"

Of course, this is also assuming (and you know what that stands for, right ) that our "friend" didn't actually come here to blow anything or anyone up, committ espionage, or train others to do the same.....

http://www.cityofnewhaven.com/

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post #9 of 24 Old Jul 23rd, 2007, 4:48 pm
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Would you like the City of New Haven to keep confidential your name and residential address as listed in this application to the extent permitted by law?
Yes______ No_____
"

Hmmm... that's funny. If I'm not mistaken, I can go the the Town Hall and get ownership and tax records on YOU because of the Freedom of Information Act.
But if you're here illega.. I mean "undocumentally", you are exempt from our laws..... interesting.....

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post #10 of 24 Old Jul 23rd, 2007, 4:51 pm
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In addition to serving as an identification card, the Elm City Resident Card will have multiple uses, including 1) serving as a library card; 2) providing access to municipal services and sites including the public beach (free), the golf course (resident discount) the city dump; 3)offering a Parcxmart debit card component, which allows the user to load up to $150 to the card to be used to pay for parking meters and for goods and services at approximately 50 participating stores.
Kica Matos
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City of New Haven
165 Church Street
New Haven, CT 06510
(203)946-7909
[email protected]
Oh.. and you get to use the public beach for free, get the citizen discount at the golf course, use the city dump, use it as a debit card....

I wonder who is paying for all this niceties..........oh wait.. I know.... just us IDIOTS who actually PAY FOR THEM!

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post #11 of 24 Old Jul 23rd, 2007, 5:06 pm
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But what is the City of New Haven doing for felons ?
or is it just some illegal activities that they support.

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post #12 of 24 Old Jul 23rd, 2007, 6:59 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STARFIGHTER
But what is the City of New Haven doing for felons ?
or is it just some illegal activities that they support.
In the "unlikely" event that a felon is also an illegal immigrant, does he collect twice?

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post #13 of 24 Old Jul 23rd, 2007, 7:54 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astuber
Bank of America has been running ads nation wide saying that undocumented people can open bank accounts and transfer money at no cost.
What a pile of horse, mule, kangaroo, elephant, hippo, dog, whale and any other mammal CRAP!
I'm going to cancel my B of A plastic!

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post #14 of 24 Old Jul 24th, 2007, 7:38 am
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Why do you need papers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkMeister
(Fatima, an illegal immigrant from Mexico, said she is eager to apply for the card. "The ID will help me because it's a way to be in this country and get people to know who you are, especially for people who crossed the border and lost their papers," she said. "I feel safe here in New Haven.")

Lost papers. Yup. Happens all the time.
In a so called free country why do you need papers?, Ver AR der papers?
Thought that was a Nazi thing from the past
Rock

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post #15 of 24 Old Jul 24th, 2007, 8:35 am
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Originally Posted by PMitchell
What a pile of horse, mule, kangaroo, elephant, hippo, dog, whale and any other mammal CRAP!
I'm going to cancel my B of A plastic!
My wife works for a local bank and said that they have opened a number of accounts of BOA (former) account holders because of this very thing. I got an email from a friend several months ago urging everyone that had one to close their accounts at BOA AND tell them why they closed them. Obviously BOA thinks that they can make money of this kind of policy.

The Bank should face criminal charges for helping people violate the law.

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post #16 of 24 Old Jul 24th, 2007, 8:53 am
 
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Thanks for this thread - I'll be closing my BoA account shortly.

On a separate point... On a BBC program this week (Panorama) they looked at illegals in Slough - the town right next to Heathrow airport. According to the government, the town's population has shrunk over the past 10 years, but the reality is quite the reverse. The problem this creates is that 'federal' funds are allocated on the basis of population, so Slough gets less government support for education, health-care, housing, rubbish collection etc. etc. The problem is that no-one knows how many illegals are living there - heck, they don't even know how many legals there are! My guess is that the 'legal locals' have actually moved on and out and been replaced by many more illegals - hence the government's numbers.

Not that I'm condoning illegal activity but how do you really control it? The borders are like sieves, so maybe a scheme like this will at least bring a load of them out of the woodwork and then you can start tackling the problem? Shoving them underground doesn't work, and they screw the welfare system anyway - illegals go to hospital and get treated and the taxpayer picks up the bill, they will always find ways around 'the system' (usually aided by citizens who see yet another way to make a fast buck - what do you plan to do about them?) and we pick up the tab. Maybe the CT scheme goes too far, but at least they're looking at the problem from a different point of view...
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post #17 of 24 Old Jul 24th, 2007, 9:10 am
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Originally Posted by UncleRock
In a so called free country why do you need papers?, Ver AR der papers?
Thought that was a Nazi thing from the past
Rock
I've always thought that the Department of Homeland Security had a lot in common with the Department of Fatherland Security.

Res ipsa loquitur, sed quid in infernos dicet?

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post #18 of 24 Old Jul 24th, 2007, 10:31 am Thread Starter
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Wow, I really stirred the pot. So I am waiting at the local oil change place watching CNN and guess who comes on? Fatima from New Haven. The camera does not show her face. Next scene is the MAyor of New Haven complaining that the Immigration Dept has unfairly targeted New Haven because of the ID program and arrested 32 Illegals. WTF?

Then I they start chating about the homeinvasion that killed 3 people in Cheshire. Again WTF? I just do not get people. Killed 11 YO girl, 17 YO Girl and thier 48 YO Mother. Bodies Set on fire and Father beaten to an inch of his life, all for some money that the invaders made the women take out of the bank. Thankfully, the local PD was on top of it all and arrested two men after a short chase. This is why I believe in the death Penalty. My prayers go out the Petit Family and Friends.

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post #19 of 24 Old Jul 24th, 2007, 11:25 am
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Hooo Boy Jim! You're getting better than Gerard at hitting my buttons

The New Haven protests this AM weren't really what I had hoped for, low numbers turned out for the protest. It's still going now (sort of) but I had to get back to work so I could get my taxes paid up. As for the question of what can we do?? Well, first and foremost, we could take a pro-active position and not a defeatist attitude. Things are only this bad because our elected officials are not doing anything about this situation.

First - Make employers accountable. First violation = 5 day complete shutdown of their facility. second violation = 30 day shutdown. Third violation = 90 and so on until it's either cheaper for them to hire legal citizens, or they go out of business altogether. We should not be subsidizing the exploitation of cheap, disadvantaged labor in the first place.
Second - how many illegals do you think work for our defense contractors? I don't actually know the number, but I would put good money on it being less than 1%. Why is that? And if it IS more than .001% What the hell are we thinking?? That is not tolerable, and neither should it be anywhere else.
Third - Immediate deportation to their home country for the first violation, upon conviction. We can't subvert due process. And we bill their home country for our costs. Second violation - Jail time at a labor facility where they will be paid a fair wage, until they have offset the legal costs incurred by The U.S. If they are physicall/mentally unable to work, immediate deportation upon conviction. And we bill their home country for our costs.
Fourth - No such thing as anchor babies. This is not in the spirit of our laws, and needs to be ended. This in and of itself, is a prime motivator for illegal (and legal) immigration.

These are simple, and it took me all of about 2 minutes to write down. So why can't we stem the tide again?

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post #20 of 24 Old Jul 24th, 2007, 11:35 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lzyellodog
Then I they start chating about the homeinvasion that killed 3 people in Cheshire. Again WTF? I just do not get people. Killed 11 YO girl, 17 YO Girl and thier 48 YO Mother. Bodies Set on fire and Father beaten to an inch of his life, all for some money that the invaders made the women take out of the bank. Thankfully, the local PD was on top of it all and arrested two men after a short chase. This is why I believe in the death Penalty. My prayers go out the Petit Family and Friends.
This one hit close to home. This is the kind of senseless violence no amount of incarceration or retribution can compensate for. I can only imagine what Dr. Petit and his extended family is going through, our thoughts and prayers are with them.

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post #21 of 24 Old Jul 24th, 2007, 2:36 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zippy_gg
And why would any city "protect" illegal immigrants when they cannot protect legal citizens? And why would any city allow illegal immigrants to have free access to municipal services paid for by legal citizens via taxes??? I don't want a bilingual library!!!

That is beyond unbelievable!!!



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post #22 of 24 Old Jul 24th, 2007, 9:04 pm
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Paperless Environment

Quote:
Originally Posted by astuber
I've always thought that the Department of Homeland Security had a lot in common with the Department of Fatherland Security.
Don't need papers to cross the border? OK fine dudes.
Ask me about the electronic chip technology lurking around the corner. That should ease the paper requirement.
Ask me about numerous "refugees" arriving on this continent - who had the required papers to board an aircraft, but somehow lost them before landing. They should really start closing the windows on those jumbos; damn papers fly out accidentally.
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post #23 of 24 Old Jul 24th, 2007, 10:50 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianbeemer
Thanks for this thread - I'll be closing my BoA account shortly.

On a separate point... On a BBC program this week (Panorama) they looked at illegals in Slough - the town right next to Heathrow airport. According to the government, the town's population has shrunk over the past 10 years, but the reality is quite the reverse. The problem this creates is that 'federal' funds are allocated on the basis of population, so Slough gets less government support for education, health-care, housing, rubbish collection etc. etc. The problem is that no-one knows how many illegals are living there - heck, they don't even know how many legals there are! My guess is that the 'legal locals' have actually moved on and out and been replaced by many more illegals - hence the government's numbers.
Say, aren't you the fellow that was bragging about how easy it is to open a bank account in your area? The only identification you need is a letter addressed to you? Still think that's a good idea?
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post #24 of 24 Old Jul 25th, 2007, 11:38 am
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I really like the great white north...I wonder what the impact of illegal immigration from the USA to Canada might be?
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