Speed Limits, "What Are They Good For?" - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 56 Old Nov 11th, 2005, 8:19 am Thread Starter
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Speed Limits, "What Are They Good For?"

The recent thread re: "THE LEO SAID..." prompted some lively discussion and made me wonder about this somewhat conservative group's attitudes towards speed limits and their enforcement.

Rhetoric regarding revenue generation, etc. should be avoided.

I will start:

Speed limits as posted should be enforced. A 10% (firgure anyone can do the math) variance is acceptable to accommodate erroneous speedometers. Interpretation of the law by LEO's creates confusion and inequities resulting in penalizing some and rewarding others. Add to that the sovereignty of State governments and inconsistent speed limits across State lines and you have what we have now, a subjective mess.

John
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post #2 of 56 Old Nov 11th, 2005, 8:29 am
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Dang, John...you like opening a can of worms, doncha???? Heh, heh....

Well, here goes nuttin...

I have ranted about 80-100mph drivers around these parts for the last year and a half! Hell, I have to ride 5mph over their speed to stay out of their blind spots....that is INSANE!

I for one wish the LEO's would enforce the freaking speed limits! Maybe then I wouldn't have to worry about my wife driving around here because she is NOT a driver that can handle higher speeds. Not to mention my poor ol MG only has a top speed of 105 and a sweet spot just south of 70!!! Sheesh...

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post #3 of 56 Old Nov 11th, 2005, 8:44 am
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For the most part, humans are self limiting. We tend to drive at a speed that we are comfortable and restricted sight lines, weather conditions, etc, will affect our comfort level and slow our speeds. Speed limits that are set at the 85th percentile, of actual speeds observed, tend to be well adhered to. Blowing down an open stretch of I-95 at 90 mph in the middle of the night is one thing, trying that at rush hour is completely different. The LEOs know this and from my experience use good judgement on who to just pull over and who to actually ticket. They absolutely should have that discretion.

IMO, the asshole that won't get out of the left lane because he thinks 10 over is "fast enough" is more of a hazard than someone who is driving "smart" at 25 over.

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post #4 of 56 Old Nov 11th, 2005, 9:25 am
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I think most folks are pretty sensible when outside of traffic. Many are courteous and genuinely respectful. Put 'em in the middle of rush-hour traffic and for some reason they turn into CRAZIES.

At the risk of sounding immature (now there's an opening you could drive a tractor-trailer through) speed limits are to protect society from itself. Can't help but feel that if I want to get to FL from NY that I should be able to crank-it-up as long as I am able to anticipate the actions of others, the road is clear, and avoid compromising situations. Wanta go slow - get over in the right lane where ya belong. Can't count the times I'm stuck behind some 'poke-mon' doin 35 in a 55 trying to pass a trucker in the climbing lane going up hill doing 35.

Give me a break! Just leave me some room to go around and I'll be back up to 85 in no time. Just a big kid on a bike! (I know that I should take this more seriously, just can't help it. Ouch) Give me the open country road anyday.

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post #5 of 56 Old Nov 11th, 2005, 9:50 am
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In Europe they drive much faster then here. They have fewer accidents by far. However they do not not give away drivers licenses like they do here. Also their cars are better handling.(Smaller and more performance orientated) All my vehicles perform well and I take driving seriously. I have been driving fast for over 27 years with only one 2 mph fender bender that had no damage except a broken fog light. I was driving a suv and some one cut off the lady in front of me. Since my big heavy suv couldnt stop in time I kissed her bumper lightly. I sold it and bought something that stops better! I am tired of having to cater to the weakest link. If you can't drive, stay off the road or take driving lessons. We keep making laws to protect the stupid. I think a cop should use discretion when handing out tickets. Consider the driver, his accident record, and the vehicle they are driving. I do understand that bad drivers can and will pose a danger to me. Its my choice to drive faster and I'm okay with the risk. I am responsible for myself, Don't need or want big brother doing for me.......

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post #6 of 56 Old Nov 11th, 2005, 10:34 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjaun2
In Europe they drive much faster then here. They have fewer accidents by far. .......
One would normally think that, but for me "empirical" data says otherwise. My wife and I drove around southern Germany and a little in Switzerland a few years ago, and very surprisingly in the 6 days we were driving in Germany we SAW three BAD accidents on the Autobahn! I don't SEE three accidents here on SoCal freeways in a year with far more driving time. On my many cross country rides and drives, I have seen only 2 or three accidents in several years. I put well over 120,000 miles on my LTs, and don't remember seeing more than 2 accidents. Then again, I had three myself in that time!

So, judging from my sight experience given the time on the various highways I would have to empirically concur that there are more accidents on the Autobahn per mile/time than here.

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post #7 of 56 Old Nov 11th, 2005, 11:14 am
 
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Nit picking time

That is not empirical evidence(hence the quotes one would assume), that is anecdotal evidence
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post #8 of 56 Old Nov 11th, 2005, 11:34 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpalamaro
Rhetoric regarding revenue generation, etc. should be avoided.
And why the qualifier, John? Is it implicitly admitting that is part of the problem, and that people tend to rant about it accordingly?

Yes, speed limits are necessary. Yes, they could be enforced (or just adhered to) more than they are now. And yes, there are those drivers that are easily capable of exceeding the posted limits in may cases, just as there are those drivers who are dangerous at the posted limit or even below. But how do you define different rules for different drivers? You can't, so there are one-size-fits-all speed limits. The discretion of the individual LEO does help in these cases by giving some room to account for individual circumstances. Of course, there are those who will abuse that power (drivers and LEOs both), and there are those who will try and weasel out of any citation given.

Over my 35-year driving career I've had more than my fair share of warnings, more tickets than I'd like to admit to, and I could probably complete a traffic school course from memory alone. Sure, I tend to run at slightly higher speeds than the average driver, but it is a conscious decision made when the conditions allow it. My experience driving and riding as a passenger with others tells me that I'm generally more aware of my surroundings and of the potential dangers than many other drivers, and so I react accordingly to minimize those risks. Being clueless doesn't make you a safer driver, being aware and actively scanning the road and predicting dangers does. It's too bad that more people haven't developed that skill.

And yes, there are some municipalities that take the fines too far. There was a recent story about a small township off I-5 in Oregon that was reprimanded because 25% of their general fund came from speeding fines, whereas the average was around 4% for most cities. And several Oregon towns have enacted 24 hour school zones, with no regard to whether children may be present or not. (If kids are at school at 3 a.m. then you have other problems to deal with.)

But speeding is bad, and dangerous in all circumstances, so who's gonna argue that? For the record, it's not the excessive speed that causes accidents and injuries, it's the sudden stop. Airbags and ABS are well and good, even on motorcycles, but how about increased driver training requirements and a tougher skills testing so that fewer accidents occur in the first place?

Generally, the system seems to work though. And unless someone else can come up with a better system, then this is what we've got. Of course, we could always set the speeding fines related to a person's income, as they do in Finland. Ask the Director of Nokia, who was fined $103,600 for riding his Harley at 47 mph in a 31 mph zone.

Personally, I'd rather see a zero tolerance approach to drunk driving. Maybe it's because I never drink and drive, under any circumstances. But this is a known problem, with innocent people being killed daily, and with a known solution that just isn't being enforced. But then again, the alcohol lobbies spend a lot of money and therefore carry a lot of weight . . .

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post #9 of 56 Old Nov 11th, 2005, 11:49 am Thread Starter
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The qualifier was added to avoid the rhetoric re: lining the coffers with traffic violation revenue. I accept that as a given and was more interested in this group's views on speed limits.

An interesting question is raised with regards to cycles being special vehicles. A fundamental right (we can argue this one until we are blue in the face and I am always leery of 'fundamental rights' arguments) of a human is its ability to 'protect' oneself. Some gunowners will covertly carry illegal firearms in their belief that they can exercise that right. An extension of that logic is that I believe I am more safe if I have the abililty to go 'slightly' faster than the general traffic flow, believing I am more in control and less of a victim. Tell that one to a LEO with my flawed logic!

John
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post #10 of 56 Old Nov 11th, 2005, 1:11 pm
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Nope not going to get caught up on that one. Staying out of it.
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post #11 of 56 Old Nov 11th, 2005, 1:12 pm Thread Starter
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Ok, spending more time on the farkles and less time on the web page . . . just took a look and DO NOT see the 376C added to the CHANGES!

Have a good weekend . . . wx just great!

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post #12 of 56 Old Nov 11th, 2005, 1:16 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rixchard
Nit picking time

That is not empirical evidence(hence the quotes one would assume), that is anecdotal evidence
I disagree:

From Miriam Webster:
Main Entry: em∑pir∑i∑cal
Pronunciation: -i-k&l
Variant(s): also em∑pir∑ic /-ik/
Function: adjective
1 : originating in or based on observation or experience
2 : relying on experience or observation alone often without due regard for system and theory

Anecdotal evidence is non-observed based on anectotes heard or read.

Since I based my "conclusion" on direct obversations related to time/distance, it is empirical. As an engineer, I often have to make decisions in system and automation design based on empirical data, which is observed data used without full scientific evaluation.

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post #13 of 56 Old Nov 11th, 2005, 1:21 pm Thread Starter
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I think you win the empirical vs anecdotal argument . . . but, in another post you referred to a device that measures amperage as an AMP METER. Tsk, tsk, we all know it's an AMMETER. Damn French can't spell anyway (Ampere).

Just pulling your leg . . . TN still in the crosshairs?

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post #14 of 56 Old Nov 11th, 2005, 1:22 pm Thread Starter
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post #15 of 56 Old Nov 11th, 2005, 1:44 pm
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Roadway Engineering Theory

Two factors in road design affect safety (i.e., accident rates) above all else:

- A single direction for traffic flow.
- All vehicles traveling at similar speeds.

These factors are why US instates have wide medians (or strong barriers in the median), minimum and maximum speeds, and no at-grade intersections.

This factor is the primary reason for having minimum and maxim speeds on large highways (which is the only type of road I will address in this post), but it is neutral in regards to what the speed limits should be. There are a number of safety and conservation groups who advocate for lower speed limits to reduce gas consumption and the violence of crashes, but these arguments are about what the speed limit should be rather than if a limit should exist at all.

At least one group has, over the past 15 years or so, pushed for setting speeds at the 85 percentile of observed speeds. Their argument is that this will result in more vehicles traveling at similar speeds, thus reducing accidents.

So, to answer John's query, setting minimum and maximum speeds is good for safety. On the highway I stay close to the limit if the flow of traffic allows. I strongly support enforcement against drivers whose speeds are far from the flow of traffic.

Nathan
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post #16 of 56 Old Nov 11th, 2005, 2:09 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpalamaro
I think you win the empirical vs anecdotal argument . . . but, in another post you referred to a device that measures amperage as an AMP METER. Tsk, tsk, we all know it's an AMMETER. Damn French can't spell anyway (Ampere).

Just pulling your leg . . . TN still in the crosshairs?
Amperage Meter, Amp Meter, Ammeter, all perfectly acceptable. Ammeter is a shortened version that has wide usage, but amperage meter would be the "real" term. I knew you were kidding.

Tennessee is in the cards, but the crosshairs are on a really powerful scope now. We had a contingency contract on a home there, but the contract on ours here in California fell out of escrow. Starting over now. The SoCal real estate market is really slow right now, with both the holiday season and pricing scares. We missed the peak. We will just have to wait and see .

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post #17 of 56 Old Nov 11th, 2005, 3:35 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
One would normally think that, but for me "empirical" data says otherwise. My wife and I drove around southern Germany and a little in Switzerland a few years ago, and very surprisingly in the 6 days we were driving in Germany we SAW three BAD accidents on the Autobahn! I don't SEE three accidents here on SoCal freeways in a year with far more driving time. On my many cross country rides and drives, I have seen only 2 or three accidents in several years. I put well over 120,000 miles on my LTs, and don't remember seeing more than 2 accidents. Then again, I had three myself in that time!

So, judging from my sight experience given the time on the various highways I would have to empirically concur that there are more accidents on the Autobahn per mile/time than here.
Hmmmm....BAD wreck like this?

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post #18 of 56 Old Nov 11th, 2005, 3:47 pm
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Dave,
I have seen actual studies in print that say we (Americans) have way more accidents and fatalities per mile than our European neighbors. However I did not save this info, So I will not argue with ya. I Lived in the greater La area for a couple of years. They seem to have a little more skill than the average driver. I have also lived in the NE, SW, and Now NW. I invite you to visit the Seattle Tacoma area and listen to the traffic reports. You will find at least a dozen accidents on a good day. I still standby my driving record and my ability to stand on my own feet.

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post #19 of 56 Old Nov 11th, 2005, 3:56 pm
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P.S. Most people up here think California drivers are the worst. This is because they can't understand driving fast because they themselves lack the skill. And yes, It bugs me to compliment you left coasters but I do give credit where credit is due. Now if you want to talk friendliness..... I would have to leave the WHOLE left coast out!!!

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post #20 of 56 Old Nov 11th, 2005, 4:42 pm
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Some may have thought I was saying that ACTUALLY there are less accidents/mile in the US than Europe. I have no way of knowing. I was only saying that comparing bad accidents I actually SAW versus time/miles, there were "empirically" more in Germany. Not likely in actuality though. Probably just "luck of the draw" during the time I was in Germany.

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post #21 of 56 Old Nov 11th, 2005, 4:54 pm
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I am always amazed at the number of single car accidents I see in California...especially flipped cars. I saw a driver in front of me flip his car on an open road. Perhaps drivers get distracted or turn to the back seat and turn the wheel. After growing up in snowy Chicago, I generally find that many Californians can't drive if someone spits on the pavement.

Traveling cross country in September, I saw more left lane slow drivers in the midwest. Nebraska is the only state where I was passed by many 18 wheelers, some who were at least 15 over the limit of 75 on the interstate. These truckers are reckless and you can tell the other truckers don't want to be near them.

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post #22 of 56 Old Nov 11th, 2005, 4:58 pm
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Being originally from the East coast, and having driven ridden a lot all over the country, I feel that for the most part drivers are a overall little "better" in a lot of California. Better in the sense of being a little more aware of traffic, allowing merging, and not getting quite as up tight in traffic. Yes, fast driving seems to be a somewhat developed "skill" here that is lacking for much of the rest of the US. I have noticed though that in the last 3-4 years there seem to be more and more aggressive and clueless drivers here.

I do know that when lanes come together, on highways or even in parking lots, Californians are pretty universal in allowing the merging lane to alternate into traffic, Zipper like. In other states I have been in, it is a war, with little quarter given. I was in Tennessee recently, and was amazed at how aggressive merging traffic was to push two or more cars in front of you no matter what! Even merging onto freeways there I would sometimes have a car blatantly speed up to keep me from getting in front of them, for no logical reason! Seems to be more of a "challenge" attitude there.

If I do get moved to Tennessee, there are things I will sorely miss about California. Number one if I get another motorcyle will be LANE SPLITTING! We sure have everyone beat hands down on that one!

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post #23 of 56 Old Nov 11th, 2005, 5:13 pm
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Knowing your originally from the East coast, I may need to retract my cheap jab at those left coasters. Certainly wouldn't want to offend our social instigator.

Brian Ley
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post #24 of 56 Old Nov 11th, 2005, 5:20 pm
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Dave,

Perhaps it is time you got your eyes checked, man :-)

By "see accidents" I take that to mean accidents that you come upon, not necessarily that occurred right in front of you. Commuting to work in Denver, I bet I see an accident every other day and then there are those that the traffic reporters spot that are on entirely different routes from my commute. But then it has got much worse here since the Californians began migrating east.

I spent a week in France a few years back in an area about an hour from Geneva, Switzerland. What I observed was pretty light to moderate traffic, no accidents and the only cars in the left lane of the highway were those passing and they do so with the left blinker on the entire time they occupy the passing lane - once clear of the object vehicle being passed it's right back over into the right lane and off goes the blinker - a pretty considerate and communicative philosophy over there when it comes to roadway manors.

Conversely, in California, every damn fool in a car believes the left lane is for camping which forces nearly all passing to take place to the right of the left lane. I spent my early childhood in California and the So. Cal drivers behave totally different from the No. Cal drivers. Don't care for either style myself.

I haven't travelled nearly as extensively as you appear to have, but in this country I would say that rural Texans display the most considerate driving behavior - they pull over onto the shoulder to let faster traffic get by and, when safe, they will pull into th oncoming lane when making a left turn so as not to disrupt the flow of traffic behind them.

The traffic on the turnpikes in New England - now that's some scary shit!

Brian
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post #25 of 56 Old Nov 11th, 2005, 6:16 pm
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Yes, I was speaking of accidents I actually saw happen or that had happened in the last few minutes before I passed them. I saw one happen in Germany, the other two had been so recent that emergency crews/LEOs had not even arrived yet. Because of the speeds on the Autobahn, they were all pretty nasty accidents. Fortunately, only one of them involved another car.

Hey, listening to the radio in the morning here in San Diego there can be 3-4 in one commute time, more if it is raining. When it first starts raining, they tell everyone to only call law enforcement if someone is injured. There can be so many that first couple hours of rain that the law enforcement agencies are overwhelmed. But in my many hundreds of hours commuting over the past 14 years here I have only seen about half dozen, maybe ten of them.

I was comparing apples to apples though, accidents I actually saw happen or the relatively immediate results of based on miles/time driven. If I drive 6 hours in one state, see three accidents, then drive 6 hours in another state and see one, "Empirically" the first state has three times as many accidents. Longer term actual data would be entirely different though. That is why I said "empirically".

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post #26 of 56 Old Nov 11th, 2005, 6:17 pm
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If you want to see bad drivers come to my neck of the woods. Going at or below the speed limit in the left lane, You have a four lane highway and the only two cars that separates you and a speeding ticket, are side by side going the speed limit blocking traffic.
No turns signals are used, red lights are constantly being run, people love to ride my "bumper" (I guess they have never seen a BMW motorcycle before).

If you are going down the road at a good clip, everybody plays catch-up and wants to be your back door!

So, the SOUTH has the WORST drivers! Hands down.

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post #27 of 56 Old Nov 11th, 2005, 6:36 pm
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"An interesting question is raised with regards to cycles being special vehicles."

Motorbikes can accelerate better than the best sports cars, in general, but cannot stop as predictably or as short. My theory because of the above is to find a 'clear area' of highway that keeps other vehicles away from my zone of safety. It works, but, of course I speed to get around the slow vehicles to find my 'clear area'!

Our biggest frustration on our rides is the double yellow. They look like they are painted with the passing distance required by a Yugo. A bike can pass Safely in many, many double yellow areas. This is an area it would be nice to see a "motorcycles may pass in double yellow areas if it is possible to do so safely" ...yeah, right!

Enforcement of posted speed limits these days seldom has ANYTHING to do with safety. It is ALL about revenue. Just check where they set up speed traps and when...good weather, straight stretches of road, good shoulders to park on, not too much traffic. The ability to equitably administer justice on speeding has long been gone...it is very hit or miss. Too costly, and too much other work to do any speeding enforcement...unless the revenue is factored in. Answer: you cannot separate the two today. jmho

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post #28 of 56 Old Nov 11th, 2005, 11:05 pm
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.[/QUOTE]
I am tired of having to cater to the weakest link. If you can't drive, stay off the road or take driving lessons. We keep making laws to protect the stupid.

The last sence here pretty much sums up reality here in the US. Few laws here really change behavior for the most part.

I do not believe speed limits are set here in the US with real saftey in mind but to generate revenue for local govt. If they really wanted to be concerned about safety how about a real test by the DMV instead of a test any 6th grader can pass. How about real driving test like for motorcyclist with emergency maneuvers and stops. Bet that stops tons of drivers out there from their next license.

How about real DUI laws 1 strike and your out for 5 years. instead of big $$$ and your off scott free.

Speed limit what are they good for NOTHING! they are a crock of steaming horse feathers.

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post #29 of 56 Old Nov 12th, 2005, 12:57 am
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Try driving in Korea some time. They are very aggressive, but also very slow, so you can see it all play out in real time. And I hear that's one of the more "civilized" Asian countries.

Ah well, at least I can claim to have ridden a bike over there.

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post #30 of 56 Old Nov 12th, 2005, 5:42 pm
 
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Do away with speed limits. Go to a graduated incident structure. If you cause an incident that kills someone, we send you to a Texas death chamber. If you maim someone 10-15 years. If we had serious penalties, the bad drivers would be taken off the road, leaving it to those of us who think we are great drivers. Why is killing someone with a car not as bad as killing them with a gun. OK I'll agree to second degree murder since there was no intent. Or was there, if you are driving beyond your capabilities.

I guess it comes down to how the fine citizens of this country want to handle things. Hold it, the fine special interest groups want to handle things. After all what's over 40,000 highway deaths a year anyway. Maybe CNN or FOX (naw) will take up the challenge and show each persons name that died in a traffic incident that week. Wait that would bring everybody down and they would start using zoloft and the drug companies would profit pissing off the oil... whoa, this is one big circle, vicious or not. If I were KING...

Please note the writer never used the word accident, since it really is someones fault. Until folks start taking responsibility for their actions, not much will change. Oh yea, M13 I don't street race, it's against my faith.
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post #31 of 56 Old Nov 12th, 2005, 9:26 pm
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Years ago it was okay to drink and drive, Now its not. They are actually throwing people in jail when they kill. So maybe in the future........ They will hold people responsible for themselves. What an idea

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post #32 of 56 Old Nov 13th, 2005, 8:28 am
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I was going stay out of the post, buttttttttttttttt.

First: Because you do not see a crash there are a lot. In my city, Tallahassee, Florida we ,the city police department, work on a day 10-15 crashes a day. When it rains the crashes double.

Second: We do put people in jail for killing others in car crashes, but there has to a criminal cause to the crash. Example and the best example is DUI. Here and it looks like the rest of the county is if someone is killed in a red light crash and there was no criminal cause, it is a ticket. In Florida you have to go in front of judge for those fatality type crashes. Just can not sign up for driving school. I know what you are thinking, What? just a ticket for taking a life of another, but how many red light crashes to we work and nobody get kills? Should charge those with attempted homicide?
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post #33 of 56 Old Nov 13th, 2005, 11:13 am
 
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Motorman 587 asked: Should charge those with attempted homicide?

A big YES!

There are some places that think red means: go really-really fast.
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post #34 of 56 Old Nov 13th, 2005, 11:32 am
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It's a carry over

Quote:
Originally Posted by black1200lt
Motorman 587 asked: Should charge those with attempted homicide?

A big YES!

There are some places that think red means: go really-really fast.
Which in response to the yellow light which means: Hurry up the red lights comng!!

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post #35 of 56 Old Nov 13th, 2005, 11:37 am
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John in Jacksonville opined "Speed limits as posted should be enforced. A 10% (figure anyone can do the math) variance is acceptable to accommodate erroneous speedometers. "

I aint giving anyone a ticket for 33 in a 30!....or 71.5 in a 65! I gotta live with myself, for Pete's sake!

Hey, I got a photo radar ticket in Washington DC for 55 in a 45. My Fraternal Order of Police tags showed nice and bright in the photo. I paid th C-note and learned a lesson. Stay out of DC!

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post #36 of 56 Old Nov 13th, 2005, 5:27 pm Thread Starter
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[...I aint giving anyone a ticket for 33 in a 30!....or 71.5 in a 65! I gotta live with myself, for Pete's sake!]

The point is moot. Unless I am wrong, the Police Department's job is to enforce, not interpret. Too much interpretation (take a look at the revisionists' interpretation of the U.S. Constitution) going on without authority (not just talking about LEO's now)

I as a law abiding citizen don't get the [luxury] to interpret laws and regulations, why should a law ENFORCEMENT officer?

John
Jacksonville, FL (USA)

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post #37 of 56 Old Nov 13th, 2005, 7:52 pm
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Are you going to tell us that you drive exactly 30 mph or less in a 30 zone? Well, I don't believe you and if you are such a goody-two-shoes citizen,when you see your speedometer go over the limit do a citizen's arrest on yourself. I'll even send you a spare set of handcuffs to use on yourself!

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post #38 of 56 Old Nov 13th, 2005, 8:19 pm Thread Starter
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Yeah Dave, I do drive 30 mph (remember, I can go up to 33) in a 30 mph zone. And I am dead serious. Unless I was driving in 65 in a 55 mph construction area as I said in an earlier post.

And BTW, my complaint is not with speed limits but their not being enforced consistently by law ENFORCEMENT officers. I stand firm that law enforcement officers are not doing anyone any favors by interpreting the law according to their own internal barometer as to what's right vs what's wrong.

And, if I am going over 33 in a 30 mph zone, so be it. But it will only happen once if every officer cited someone going over 33. Hell, most of the law enforcement officers I have seen driving in their cruise cars break more laws in one mile than I do in a year! But then again, I don't have the protection they do!

John
Jacksonville, FL (USA)
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post #39 of 56 Old Nov 13th, 2005, 8:43 pm
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Cops can not be at every street to enforce the speed limit. Each department has to find what priority the calls are going to be with their budget.

We have a small traffic unit, but do a lot. We educate, enforce and help with our traffic engineering department.

Most traffic officers go to areas that are hot spots due to complaints or they know that persons driver over the limit at a high rate then other locations.

Do not blame it on officers, blame it on the society that we live in.

John- I am sorry that your feel that about enforcement in your area. I can tell you that I write tickets in area that I am told or I know that people continue to travel over 15 mph.
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post #40 of 56 Old Nov 13th, 2005, 8:49 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daman858
I'll even send you a spare set of handcuffs to use on yourself!
Uhhhhh...... could you send them to us? We'll put them to good use!



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post #41 of 56 Old Nov 13th, 2005, 8:54 pm
 
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post #42 of 56 Old Nov 13th, 2005, 9:09 pm
 
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I was told by a judge, that she did not want things in court that someone could have a reasonable excuse to get out of the charges. She actually told LEO's don't even bother with anything under 10mph over. (whoa, that reads like Bushism) So maybe a lot of the LEO's are not interrupting but going with the flow.

Since I'm back in the south for awhile, I need to put some HID's pointing back to keep these people from running over me. I'm working on a correlation between how religious a place appears to be to how many laws get broken.
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post #43 of 56 Old Nov 13th, 2005, 10:06 pm
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Wow. I just read all the posts generated to date. Let me bring a bit different perspective to how the law is enforced and the reality of the speed which many of us like to use (myself included).

My take on the subject is that I don't care what the posted speed limit is or how it is enforced, where I see the biggest risk to our safey is when people (MC's and cagers) don't ride/drive in a manner consistent with the road conditions and braking distances (i.e. limited sight distances, hills, corners and the like). One of the biggest (in my humble opinion) problems is traveling at a speed that exceeds reactions distances. This can also include over taking a slower vehicle at such a high rate of speed that when they looked to see if the lane was clear, you weren't there, or, a vehicle entering the roadway where one moment the road appears clear to the driver, the next (because of the approaching vehicles' high rate of speed, there is contact). See where I"m going with this?

Don, pardon me for using you as as an example, but on his way to IBA, crested a hill to find a car had just pulled into his lane. As it was described on BMWLT.NET, indicated one of two things that were at fault. Either the DOT for that state made an error in placing that cross-over just over the crest of the hill and/or he was traveling at a rate of speed greater than his stopping distance.

I see this on our "group" rides. Our LTs and RTs are engineered to the point where we can exceed the expectations of highway engineers. We have the ability to carve through the corners faster than we can to see, in order to stop should there be something in the road.

Bottom line? If you can't stop with the distance you can see? Doesn't matter what the posted speed limit is.

Tom Haycraft
Round Rock, TX

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post #44 of 56 Old Nov 14th, 2005, 5:00 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grifscoots
Uhhhhh...... could you send them to us? We'll put them to good use!

Yep. But I don't seem to be able to find the key!

Dave
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and Pawleys Island, SC
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post #45 of 56 Old Nov 16th, 2005, 7:31 am
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I invite all of you to drive in Louisiana! Three accidents in a year? We have three in an hour here. I have witnessed drivers making a left turn across five lanes and it does not appear that they even looked for other vehicles. Here everyone drives as though they are the only person in the world.

Also after the lights turns red the next 6 cars go Free, so after your light becomes green you wait 10 seconds before moving into the intersection, or pay the consequences.

A few years ago we passed laws that every driver must have liability ins. Somehow that does not work either, and insurance rates increased instead of the decrease that was promised.

In La when you drive you place your life in others hands, So HAVE FUN!

Speed limits? Whats that? Oh Yeah, thats the speed you dream of reaching.

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post #46 of 56 Old Nov 16th, 2005, 7:41 am
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Well, John...like I said...you opened up a real can o' worms.

I am with you, though. 15mph over the speed limit is ridiculous!!! My wife has had to endure the last six months for [email protected]#@[email protected]# assholes riding her rear bumper in a construction zone at 5:30am in the dark, flashing their lights and blowing their horn because she actually goes 45mph as posted! I finally encouraged her to drive 50mph and it is no better....aaarrrgghhh.

Why the hell do people INSIST on driving so fast and arrive at their destination usually less than a minute quicker than we do??? This bloody society we live in really sucks. LEO's can't be everywhere but they do NOTHING where I live. (Note: Beware Peachtree City gestapo!)

Sooooo....thanks to all the rapid assholes out there, we shall have photoradar zappin everybody in a very few years. Hope they enjoy their road rage while they can.

As for me, I will keep drivin my usual 5mph over...heh, heh...if the ol MG can actually GO that fast in some areas!!!
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post #47 of 56 Old Nov 16th, 2005, 7:59 am
 
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I stand corrected (and humbled)
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post #48 of 56 Old Nov 16th, 2005, 10:07 am
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Question Attempted murder--

Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman587
but how many red light crashes to we work and nobody get kills? Should charge those with attempted homicide?
Well,if you shoot at someone---
or, what if there weren't aiming --
or "just did,t see them"--
Do we get a "new" definition"--Attempted Negligent Homicide?

ed early
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post #49 of 56 Old Nov 16th, 2005, 10:59 am
 
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I've been driving for 24 years and probably have just as many tickets, if not more. My insurance rates are very good, and the last judge I went before said (and I quote), "...you have a good driving record. You just need to slow down some."

The current "system" is ridiculous at best. But I couldn't come up with a better one if I tried. I certainly wouldn't want to get pulled over every time I did 56 in a 55. So, I'll just antie up and pay the piper every time they happen to catch me. And count my blessings when I do get to fly with the angels all the other times.
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post #50 of 56 Old Nov 16th, 2005, 1:00 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TandemCyclist
I was told by a judge, that she did not want things in court that someone could have a reasonable excuse to get out of the charges. She actually told LEO's don't even bother with anything under 10mph over......
My boyhood friend, who is now a deputy with my home county sheriff's department, has told me the same thing in regards to their traffic court judges.

Me, I'm in no hurry, and my "hoon" days are well behind me (if I ever did have any). I'm a plus or minus 5mph of the posted speed limit(s) kind of rider.

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