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post #1 of 11 Old Jan 8th, 2007, 10:06 am Thread Starter
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Prepared?

The whole Techno-LEO thread got me thinking.
We have given away our responsibility for feeding ourselves, for heating our shelters (for the most part, excluding you wood and solar people).
Who on this list is prepared to take care of themselves and their family?
Any city is 3 days from a full scale civil unrest, the government with all their spending of your tax dollars can do nothing.
(after all for the most part, so called leadership is populated with a bunch of mid level management types. That if they had real leadership skills would be making multi-millions heading up corporations. Since they can't do that, they take the next route and steal it from us)
So it comes down to you and what you have on hand. The blackout of 2003 put 50 million in the dark for a day. There were countless fights over gasoline.
Take it 3 days they will fight for water, make it a week and they will kill for water.
I live outside a rural community, when we were without power for 3-4 days everything was fine. Only because those that didn't have supplies could drive a short distance and get them. What if that black out had been many states like 03.
Where are you on the food chain, can you take care of your needs.
Just something to think about, by the way you can have enough food + water put by for a lot less $$$ than you think.
Rock
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post #2 of 11 Old Jan 8th, 2007, 10:20 am
 
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The end is nigh!
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post #3 of 11 Old Jan 8th, 2007, 11:51 am
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleRock
The whole Techno-LEO thread got me thinking.
We have given away our responsibility for feeding ourselves, for heating our shelters (for the most part, excluding you wood and solar people).
Who on this list is prepared to take care of themselves and their family?
Any city is 3 days from a full scale civil unrest, the government with all their spending of your tax dollars can do nothing.
(after all for the most part, so called leadership is populated with a bunch of mid level management types. That if they had real leadership skills would be making multi-millions heading up corporations. Since they can't do that, they take the next route and steal it from us)
So it comes down to you and what you have on hand. The blackout of 2003 put 50 million in the dark for a day. There were countless fights over gasoline.
Take it 3 days they will fight for water, make it a week and they will kill for water.
I live outside a rural community, when we were without power for 3-4 days everything was fine. Only because those that didn't have supplies could drive a short distance and get them. What if that black out had been many states like 03.
Where are you on the food chain, can you take care of your needs.
Just something to think about, by the way you can have enough food + water put by for a lot less $$$ than you think.
Rock
That reminds me of the Y2K bug fear that drove people from L.A. to buy guns and ammo and store food, water, fuel, and have wads of cash on hand..
Had the Y2K bug matched people's fears we would have had at the very least riots surpassing those caused by the Rodney King trial.
I didn't have a contingency plan for Y2K, but always had one in case of major earthquake taking down a big chink of California.
So Rock, what's the plan?

Gilles & Kathy
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post #4 of 11 Old Jan 8th, 2007, 11:56 am
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Disclaimer: You guys are going to think -- based on my recent & consistent replies to other threads -- that I'm a doom-and-gloom guy. That really isn't the case.

I live in a very rural area, but am only 15 minutes from town. We live in a modern home, have all the modern conveniences, etc. Rock, you've been there.

However... I've always believed in being able to get quickly ramped-up to be self-sufficient to a certain degree. We can heat our home and have fresh water indefinitely (one advantage of not being on a town water supply). The house is wired with a 200 amp transfer switch, and I have a portable 30 amp generator that can be plugged into a receptacle on the outside of the house. As long as I have gasoline I can run the generator, which can power any 2 or 3 rooms in the house at a time, and there is a 300-gallon tank on hand. The only thing the generator can't run is the heat pump and the clothes dryer -- too much electrical draw.

In the event of a loss of power, I can heat with firewood (how many cords would you like?) or kerosene. Kerosene is much more efficient and consistent, temp-wise, of course. We'll have propane installed later this year and that will add another source for heat and (more importantly) cooking.

The only thing we wouldn't have on hand is a long-term supply of food, but game can be taken out of season if the situation really, really required it. My neighbor runs a hay-and-cattle operation; I think we could buy just a few hundred pounds of beef from him. We used to have a very large vegetable garden and my wife would can the produce from it, but we haven't done much of that the past 2 years.

Funny thing is, we lose power less frequently than city-folk. 2 years ago we were without power for 36 hours. A little inconvenient but no crisis.

This scenario has been the subject of countless movies and is always an interesting "What if...?" discussion, IMO.

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post #5 of 11 Old Jan 8th, 2007, 1:47 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zippy_gg
That reminds me of the Y2K bug fear that drove people from L.A. to buy guns and ammo and store food, water, fuel, and have wads of cash on hand..
Had the Y2K bug matched people's fears we would have had at the very least riots surpassing those caused by the Rodney King trial.
I didn't have a contingency plan for Y2K, but always had one in case of major earthquake taking down a big chink of California.
So Rock, what's the plan?
Most could get by with a loaded pallet, covered in the corner of their basement.

The whole problem hinges on lack of energy, to pump water, gasoline, sewage, run refrigeration, credit card machines, etc.
Well you have to break it down to the basics, this is easy for me, because I'm somewhat of a hillbilly

Deal with things in order of importence.

Weather can kill in minutes,Dealing with just the weather, think micro climate. most of us on this list could survive quite well in just our riding gear, and body heat. Not heating a whole building just the area very close to the skin, or a small area say inside a sleeping bag.


Lack of water, days (you need a gal per day, more in severe climates, roughly 1/2 of that is for drinking, the other is for cooking and sanitary)

lack of food weeks (you need 2lb dry food,(anything made with flour) per day ave,
rice beans etc.1 lb of wet food ...mix and match we are looking for calories)

lack of viatims etc more than 6 months (If it goes this long you will be planting a garden)

Simple storage FREE, go to local recycle center, get 2 liter soda bottles. They are made of PET and will last longer than any of us. These things are almost indestructable, they are made to withstand drops, being shaken on trucks in transisit while full of carbonation pressure etc.
Wash them out good with hot water. Don't store anything in plastic milk jugs, they are a differant make up (so many are made they have to start to break down in the landfil) and will start to leak after a couple years.
You can get over 5lb of flour into a 2 liter bottle. Depending on the area, you can get 100lb of wheat flour for under $20 at the mill. If you take the time to do a little mixing you can have pancake, bisquit, flatbread, fryed Indian bread, doughnuts, bread all premixed and put away ready to go (labeled of course). Whole grain Rice 100lb $15, Dry beans etc.
Fill a couple with sugar, brown or white. fill a couple with powdered milk (or get it in the mylar pouchs) fill one with salt, one with baking powder. Stash a couple 4-5gallon oil containers, peanut oil, cooking oil (remember Eskimo's eat whale blubber because fat contains 9 cal per gram vs 4 cal for carb or protien)
A burner, some propane bottles, a fry pan + your working,
Add little things as you go along, this is a base to work from, you can make it grow when things are on sale, peanut butter, jelly, spices. etc.
I could go on and on but you get the idea.
worried about the stuff going bad, silicone the lids on, that will keep the air out.
Rock
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post #6 of 11 Old Jan 8th, 2007, 3:19 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleRock
Most could get by with a loaded pallet, covered in the corner of their basement.

The whole problem hinges on lack of energy, to pump water, gasoline, sewage, run refrigeration, credit card machines, etc.
Well you have to break it down to the basics, this is easy for me, because I'm somewhat of a hillbilly

Deal with things in order of importence.

Weather can kill in minutes,Dealing with just the weather, think micro climate. most of us on this list could survive quite well in just our riding gear, and body heat. Not heating a whole building just the area very close to the skin, or a small area say inside a sleeping bag.


Lack of water, days (you need a gal per day, more in severe climates, roughly 1/2 of that is for drinking, the other is for cooking and sanitary)

lack of food weeks (you need 2lb dry food,(anything made with flour) per day ave,
rice beans etc.1 lb of wet food ...mix and match we are looking for calories)

lack of viatims etc more than 6 months (If it goes this long you will be planting a garden)

Simple storage FREE, go to local recycle center, get 2 liter soda bottles. They are made of PET and will last longer than any of us. These things are almost indestructable, they are made to withstand drops, being shaken on trucks in transisit while full of carbonation pressure etc.
Wash them out good with hot water. Don't store anything in plastic milk jugs, they are a differant make up (so many are made they have to start to break down in the landfil) and will start to leak after a couple years.
You can get over 5lb of flour into a 2 liter bottle. Depending on the area, you can get 100lb of wheat flour for under $20 at the mill. If you take the time to do a little mixing you can have pancake, bisquit, flatbread, fryed Indian bread, doughnuts, bread all premixed and put away ready to go (labeled of course). Whole grain Rice 100lb $15, Dry beans etc.
Fill a couple with sugar, brown or white. fill a couple with powdered milk (or get it in the mylar pouchs) fill one with salt, one with baking powder. Stash a couple 4-5gallon oil containers, peanut oil, cooking oil (remember Eskimo's eat whale blubber because fat contains 9 cal per gram vs 4 cal for carb or protien)
A burner, some propane bottles, a fry pan + your working,
Add little things as you go along, this is a base to work from, you can make it grow when things are on sale, peanut butter, jelly, spices. etc.
I could go on and on but you get the idea.
worried about the stuff going bad, silicone the lids on, that will keep the air out.
Rock
Unfortunately many of these options are not available to me as I am still an apartment dweller and having no safe storage. A propane BBQ is however a possibility for cooking whatever I can store.

Gilles & Kathy
BMWMOA# 154719
IBA# 71594
2011 Ostra Gray RT
06 Mercedes-Benz E350 Estate (parts and people hauler)
2012 BMW X3 (parts and people hauler)
86 Porsche 911 Cabriolet (my "new" baby)



For her I climbed the highest mountain!
For her I swam across the deepest ocean!
For her I walked through the largest desert!
And then she left me... She said I was never home!!!


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post #7 of 11 Old Jan 9th, 2007, 8:35 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zippy_gg
Unfortunately many of these options are not available to me as I am still an apartment dweller and having no safe storage. A propane BBQ is however a possibility for cooking whatever I can store.
The most importent tool is knowledge and the can do attitude.
You could find room in the corner of a closet to put stuff that will get you through a week no problem.
Everything is a resourse.
Rock
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post #8 of 11 Old Jan 9th, 2007, 11:08 pm
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No room for a garden, but...

The emergency-storage food in #10 cans from mountainhouse.com is pretty tasty and has an alleged shelf life of 30 years. Free shipping and no tax. I've got enough on the upper shelf of my closet to last my family about a month. It's up there next to the water cans and hollow points. Peace of mind, ya know....
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post #9 of 11 Old Jan 9th, 2007, 11:35 pm
 
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We have a wood-burning fireplace, so we're covered there. We have our own well that spews forth necter from the gods. It is thee best drinking water I've ever tasted, sans filter. And I've yet to find anyone to argue with me. I do want to install a propane-powered generator for when the power goes out. But that would only last as long as we could get propane. I guess I better figure out another way to get that water outta that well. Hhmmn...
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post #10 of 11 Old Jan 10th, 2007, 7:33 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
...I guess I better figure out another way to get that water outta that well. Hhmmn...
I investigated hand pumps to mount on top of the well casing, pre-Y2K. Problem is, a 5" (diameter) casing makes it difficult to fit the working ends of both a hand pump and the electric pump into the well. Something about pi r squared...

If you ever build a new house, go with a 6" or larger casing, if possible. A little more initial cost, but lots more flexibility.

Your local health dept. will require a sealed hand pump if you install one. No more old-fashioned open pumps like Grandma had on the farm. These are readily available.

Howard Schisler
2015 BMW K1600GTL
2009 BMW K1200LT - 60k miles
2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
AMA, IBA, BMW MOA. CCRs: Braselton 2006, Osage Beach 2007, Duluth 2012


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post #11 of 11 Old Jan 11th, 2007, 6:23 pm
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A fun read along these lines is S.M. Stirling's trilogy beginning with "Dies the Fire". The second book is "The Protector's War" and the third (which I'm half way through) is "A Meeting at Corvallis". The story (centered in Oregon) considers what would happen in today's world if in a split second the world lost all electricity, internal combustion, and the ability of gun powder to go bang. Stirling does a very good job of telling the story and it's pretty thought provoking (if a little far fetched- but then it's sci-fi/fantasy) and entertaining. Amazon and the other's have it on their list. Give it a try when the roads are icy.

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