New Harley Design - what YOU would do... - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 52 Old Jun 2nd, 2006, 10:46 am Thread Starter
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Talking New Harley Design - what YOU would do...

Hmmmm...

Been thinkin about how much I have enjoyed my LT. All the attributes that make the LT sooooo good.

Now, it is difficult to dispute that a HD is a true work of art...classic. But it is a leetle behind on technology. Two things that come to mind are the brakes and the front fork dive. Both nearly got me kilt before.

So, I would definitely change THOSE. But keep the good looks!

What would YOU change?
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post #2 of 52 Old Jun 2nd, 2006, 11:11 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawg
Hmmmm...

Been thinkin about how much I have enjoyed my LT. All the attributes that make the LT sooooo good.

Now, it is difficult to dispute that a HD is a true work of art...classic. But it is a leetle behind on technology. Two things that come to mind are the brakes and the front fork dive. Both nearly got me kilt before.

So, I would definitely change THOSE. But keep the good looks!

What would YOU change?
Mufflers that if removed would disable the engine!

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
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post #3 of 52 Old Jun 2nd, 2006, 11:41 am
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The ridiculously unsafe outfits their riders wear and enforce the ATGATT. And that goes for helmets too!!!
I like the classic look, but I probably water cool the engines, and maybe add a heat deflector so the rider is safe while waiting for the long light to change in Palm Springs in the middle of July (one of my riding buddies almost fainted).
I think I would prohibit the use of spikes at the end of handlebars, pegs, and mirrors... although these are aftermarket items...

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post #4 of 52 Old Jun 2nd, 2006, 11:42 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
Mufflers that if removed would disable the engine!
Very good idea!

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post #5 of 52 Old Jun 2nd, 2006, 11:54 am
 
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I wouldn't expect to see many changes. I was at Orange County Harley last weekend, they were rolling out 20k bikes like they were on sale (they weren't). As long as large numbers of people keep buying them, I don't think they will make many changes. Besides, they tried that with the V-Rod and it has been a big failure. I owned a V-Rod before a pickup truck spoiled my day back in 03 and it was a very nice bike... but they don't sell well at all.

I think you WILL see more bikes with the 103" motor and 6 speed trans. in the future.
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post #6 of 52 Old Jun 2nd, 2006, 12:19 pm Thread Starter
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Talking

I dunno...

Butt, I keep seeing in my mind's eye a classic Harley Road King zooming down the road as quiet as a Gold Wing or LT and upon closer inspection, noticing an inline 6 cylinder engine, telelever front end and ABS emblems!!!

Looks, speed, comfort, quiet, safe, what else could we wish for???

Don't think we can influence what riders wear...heck, the old saw about the difference between the Harley crowd and the BMW crowd, remember?

Harleys:
All bikes look different but the riders look the same.

BMWs:
All bikes look the same but the riders look different!
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post #7 of 52 Old Jun 2nd, 2006, 12:52 pm
 
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Nothing I think the bikes are ugly and nothing will change that. I think they appeal to the LCD (lowest common denominator) and that is not me. I am a snob and have no desire to assoiciate with the great unwashed masses.
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post #8 of 52 Old Jun 2nd, 2006, 12:56 pm
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rixchard
Nothing I think the bikes are ugly and nothing will change that. I think they appeal to the LCD (lowest common denominator) and that is not me. I am a snob and have no desire to assoiciate with the great unwashed masses.
You make me want to sell my BMW!
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post #9 of 52 Old Jun 2nd, 2006, 1:00 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawg
Looks, speed, comfort, quiet, safe, what else could we wish for???
An LT?



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post #10 of 52 Old Jun 2nd, 2006, 1:40 pm
 
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Hey it's an opinion and worth every penny you paid for it.
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post #11 of 52 Old Jun 2nd, 2006, 2:15 pm
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All cruisers look like ... well, cruisers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hawg

Harleys:
All bikes look different but the riders look the same.

BMWs:
All bikes look the same but the riders look different!
I beg to differ. All harleys look the same. Just putting a set of whitewall tires, deeper fenders or some chrome bolt-on snickerdoodle on the same, tired old bike; Then coming up with some lame marketing moniker like "Night Train" or "Screamin Eagle" doesn't really make me perk up and say "Oooh, Hardly came out with a new bike!".

BMW has probably the most distinctively styled variety of any manufacturer in recent history. The K1200R doesn't resemble any BMW I've seen up to it's release. My F650CS doesn't look like any other motorcycle made. And so as not to pick on just the "ugly" pups in the BMW line-up ( that includes all oil head GS's ), the R1150C was quite a mold breaker style wise. I can pick out R11##C's from 1/4 mile down the road.

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post #12 of 52 Old Jun 2nd, 2006, 2:18 pm
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Wink The name

Quote:
Originally Posted by hawg
What would YOU change?
I'd change the name. To something like "Victory".

-----------------------------------------

The word motorcycle is a verb.

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post #13 of 52 Old Jun 2nd, 2006, 10:59 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawg
What would YOU change?
Nothing. Harleys do nothing for me. The few times I've ridden one, I just kept thinking "I don't get it." They're not bad bikes, they just don't fit how I ride, and the "style" doesn't carry any weight with me, so I'm not really bothered by whatever direction they may take. But HD knows exactly how to please their target market. Since that's not me, I doubt they care what I think either.

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post #14 of 52 Old Jun 5th, 2006, 10:58 am
 
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i think a modern harley should look a lot like the new suzuki M109R ... more than 100 HP and more than 100 ft lbs of torque in a modern package. you get the panache of a v-twin and modern performance. very appealing.
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post #15 of 52 Old Jun 5th, 2006, 11:19 am
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
Mufflers that if removed would disable the engine!
David...be VERY afraid! I was going to type the exact same thing. Word for word!



Quote:
Originally Posted by rixchard
Nothing I think the bikes are ugly and nothing will change that. I think they appeal to the LCD (lowest common denominator) and that is not me. I am a snob and have no desire to assoiciate with the great unwashed masses.
I don't agree that the bikes are ugly...but this post made me laugh out loud. Hilarious!
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post #16 of 52 Old Jun 5th, 2006, 1:37 pm
 
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Unhappy Tis better to remain silent and be thought a fool...

Than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rixchard
Nothing I think the bikes are ugly and nothing will change that. I think they appeal to the LCD (lowest common denominator) and that is not me. I am a snob and have no desire to assoiciate with the great unwashed masses.

A three sentence post that speaks volumes. Your last sentence is restating the obvious, as demonstrated by the second. the first is a matter of opinions and you managed to prove the old saw about those too.

You clearly have never gotten to know many cruiser riders, HD or otherwise.

My only real problem with riding a Beemer is that people might think I'm like you.
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post #17 of 52 Old Jun 5th, 2006, 1:50 pm
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawg
Hmmmm...

Been thinkin about how much I have enjoyed my LT. All the attributes that make the LT sooooo good.

Now, it is difficult to dispute that a HD is a true work of art...classic. But it is a leetle behind on technology. Two things that come to mind are the brakes and the front fork dive. Both nearly got me kilt before.

So, I would definitely change THOSE. But keep the good looks!

What would YOU change?
Liquid cooling, FI (some have this, I believe), anti-dive control (ditto), better brakes for sure. Oh, one other thing...PRICE! Way too expensive for what they are.

Someone once wrote that except for handling, accelleration, braking, reliability and rider comfort Harley is a great bike! They have come a long way since then but there is still a long way to go.
Funny thing is I have ridden metric cruisers for years now and have engaged in my share of (good natured) Harley bashing...I've never spent so much energy defending them as I have here recently.
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post #18 of 52 Old Jun 5th, 2006, 1:57 pm
 
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Thanks, As you can tell I prefer to pack as much information as I can in as few words as possible.

Please don't worry what other people think of you, especially strangers. I doubt that most people who see you on your beemer will realize I wrote of my own snobbishness and fewer still will think it applies it to you.
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post #19 of 52 Old Jun 5th, 2006, 1:58 pm
 
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If H-D DID listen to any of this . . .

Their sales would PLUMMET! Folks...they're doing something right.

Their bikes are filled with tradition.
They're sexy.
They're shiny.
And once you buy one . . . you instantly have friends.

But most of all, H-D has done a great job at marketing.

The V-Rod is proof-positive that their followers don't want technology.
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post #20 of 52 Old Jun 5th, 2006, 2:05 pm
 
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Should I quit my day job? Maybe start doing standup at rallies, Well not the ones where they camp out. I mean when we talk of camping we are truly getting onto the great unwashed masses. Public showers, toliets without running water, dirt everywhere. No thanks, just book me into the rallies with AC and a concierge( that's french for you common folk)
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post #21 of 52 Old Jun 5th, 2006, 4:24 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron82much
------------ A three sentence post that speaks volumes. -------My only real problem with riding a Beemer is that people might think I'm like you.
I think most of us saw the implied smilies in his post. How did you miss them?


I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
No bike now, but maybe in the future.
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post #22 of 52 Old Jun 5th, 2006, 4:41 pm
 
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Originally Posted by dshealey
I think most of us saw the implied smilies in his post. How did you miss them?

Maybe because they were implied. Or, quite possibly because I decided to open my mouth and remove all doubt? I'm not sure which.

The problem with the written word is that there are no indicators for sarcasm or dry wit, other than the ones we specifically add. If I should have known that he was joking then I apologize...but a simple might have been helpful.
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post #23 of 52 Old Jun 5th, 2006, 8:02 pm
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Thumbs down Truthfully...

Quote:
Originally Posted by hawg
Hmmmm...

Been thinkin about how much I have enjoyed my LT. All the attributes that make the LT sooooo good.

Now, it is difficult to dispute that a HD is a true work of art...classic. But it is a leetle behind on technology. Two things that come to mind are the brakes and the front fork dive. Both nearly got me kilt before.

So, I would definitely change THOSE. But keep the good looks!

What would YOU change?

I would NEVER ride a HD, even if'n you paid my my normal hourly rate or $125.00 per hour.

poor brakes, poor handling, (and wicked poor dealer network here in Maine........)

Mark Conlogue
MCSE, MCT
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CBCP


I take Life with a grain of salt......and a slice of lime and a shot of Tequila
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20 grand & 2K miles don't make you a biker
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I COULD TELL THEY WERE BIKERS,
IT SAID "LIVE TO RIDE" ON THEIR TRAILER
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post #24 of 52 Old Jun 5th, 2006, 8:09 pm
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Unhappy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron82much
Maybe because they were implied. Or, quite possibly because I decided to open my mouth and remove all doubt? I'm not sure which.

The problem with the written word is that there are no indicators for sarcasm or dry wit, other than the ones we specifically add. If I should have known that he was joking then I apologize...but a simple might have been helpful.

I am not a snob (even if I would like to be...)

Recognize sarcasm, and move on!
I wouldn't ride a harley (am I an elitist???)

I like my K12, I am not in the least interested in riding a harley or anything else!


if you prefer a HD, (or KAW, OR Yamaha, or suzuki, or....) just smile, and move on......................

Mark Conlogue
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20 grand & 2K miles don't make you a biker
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I COULD TELL THEY WERE BIKERS,
IT SAID "LIVE TO RIDE" ON THEIR TRAILER
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post #25 of 52 Old Jun 5th, 2006, 9:13 pm
 
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Hd----lt

Just got back from a short 200 mi. afternoon ride,Lovley riding all over western Ky.Went up to Sturgis,Ky for lunch.Got to admit my oi FLHTCI rode much more comfy than my 05 LT.Granted not the stopping power or high speed handling,but I tend to ride close to speed limits at all times,I've been down once at high speed,not fun.For the type of riding I do,the Glides are very comfy,also wife had better wind protection on the Glide.I've added footpeg lowering kit,J-Pegs,Mick-o-pegs,Bak-Up back rest and still have problems with hips and knees.Next I will try an after market seat,probably a Kontour.I feel that if I can get up about1-1/2" and back bout an inch hopefully that will do it.Otherwise we'll have to see what HD does in 07.I know they are up to something,but won't know till dealer show in June or July. For the last several years ,when I own a bike I don't own a car.Rain or shine the bike goes,course living in Fl the last 21 years just required good rain gear.
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post #26 of 52 Old Jun 5th, 2006, 10:01 pm
 
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Speed and handling

I went to the LT for the speed and handling, including braking. I loved the look of my Ultra, but looks don't get you down the road the way I want to travel. So I guess what I would change, you wouldn't be abe to call them HOGS anymore.
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post #27 of 52 Old Jun 5th, 2006, 11:01 pm
 
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I would get some sort of exorcism for the bikes. It seems something needs to stop them from leaking oil and shaking off parts.

It is interesting to watch the universal reaction to HD. I have a Honda VTX as well. The VTX riders point out the same things and enjoy the same ironies. The only difference is there seems to be more eloquence here.
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post #28 of 52 Old Jun 5th, 2006, 11:57 pm
 
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Why would they change when sales are like this???.

Fiscal Year-End December
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post #29 of 52 Old Jun 6th, 2006, 7:24 am
 
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No apology needed ( but the thought is appreciated). I am, and always will be a smartass. I am also a bit pedantic and have a low tolerance for poor thinking skills. Not the best traits for posting but you work with what you have. One thing I have learned about posting is to never take anything anyone says about me personally. Because, after all is said and done ,I know I am a really nice guy even if no one else does.
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post #30 of 52 Old Jun 6th, 2006, 7:46 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buddoggin
Why would they change when sales are like this???.

Fiscal Year-End December
2005 Sales (mil.) $5,342.2
1-Year Sales Growth 6.5%
2005 Net Income (mil.) $959.6
1-Year Net Income Growth 7.8%
2004 Employees 9,580
1-Year Employee Growth 8.9%

Well, the main reason I started this thread was because when I started ridin, it was on a Harley. If ya wanted a new one, ya waited 6 months to a year after you put in yer order.

Nowadays, Dealers are swimmin in used bikes and it is really easy to find one in a day, now...no mo waitin!

Bad news is that most buyers are what? BABY BOOMERS! You know...those like me who are gettin older and probably won't buy but ONE Harley. So, once the marketing bubble deflates, who is gonna be left to buy Harleys? 70 and 80 year old wannabe bad asses?

Just been thinkin of what HD is up to because nobody can out-Harley Harley Davidson.

Just hope they get their future products right.

As for me, I wouldn't mind a Panhead...one that RUNS...tmgs, ya listening???
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post #31 of 52 Old Jun 6th, 2006, 9:19 am
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawg
Well, the main reason I started this thread was because when I started ridin, it was on a Harley. If ya wanted a new one, ya waited 6 months to a year after you put in yer order.

Nowadays, Dealers are swimmin in used bikes and it is really easy to find one in a day, now...no mo waitin!

Bad news is that most buyers are what? BABY BOOMERS! You know...those like me who are gettin older and probably won't buy but ONE Harley. So, once the marketing bubble deflates, who is gonna be left to buy Harleys? 70 and 80 year old wannabe bad asses?

Just been thinkin of what HD is up to because nobody can out-Harley Harley Davidson.

Just hope they get their future products right.

As for me, I wouldn't mind a Panhead...one that RUNS...tmgs, ya listening???
I agree, but I don't think the future is as dark as some like to paint it. I still own a Harley and thus still have alot of contact with the 'Harley' crowd. I'm seeing alot of late 20's early 30's folks buying Harleys... ALOT of women are buying them. At least this is what I'm seeing in So. Ca.
Harley did try a fairly radical change with the V-Rod and it did not sell well. I think part of the problem with the V-Rod was that Harley priced it out of reach of the very market they were trying to attract.
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post #32 of 52 Old Jun 6th, 2006, 9:23 am
 
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Angry

Quote:
Originally Posted by rixchard
No apology needed ( but the thought is appreciated). I am, and always will be a smartass. I am also a bit pedantic and have a low tolerance for poor thinking skills. Not the best traits for posting but you work with what you have. One thing I have learned about posting is to never take anything anyone says about me personally. Because, after all is said and done ,I know I am a really nice guy even if no one else does.
Richard! STOP QUOTING ME!!!
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post #33 of 52 Old Jun 6th, 2006, 10:14 am
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Richard! STOP QUOTING ME!!!
Sheesh - that smiley icon thangie needs a nap or sumpthin'!!! He's gonna be wore out come time for evening vespers!!
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post #34 of 52 Old Jun 6th, 2006, 10:29 am
 
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Sheesh - that smiley icon thangie needs a nap or sumpthin'!!! He's gonna be wore out come time for evening vespers!!
Reminds me of my mother-in-law!

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post #35 of 52 Old Jun 6th, 2006, 11:28 am
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptRich
Just got back from a short 200 mi. afternoon ride,Lovley riding all over western Ky.Went up to Sturgis,Ky for lunch.Got to admit my oi FLHTCI rode much more comfy than my 05 LT.Granted not the stopping power or high speed handling,but I tend to ride close to speed limits at all times,I've been down once at high speed,not fun.For the type of riding I do,the Glides are very comfy,also wife had better wind protection on the Glide.I've added footpeg lowering kit,J-Pegs,Mick-o-pegs,Bak-Up back rest and still have problems with hips and knees.Next I will try an after market seat,probably a Kontour.I feel that if I can get up about1-1/2" and back bout an inch hopefully that will do it.Otherwise we'll have to see what HD does in 07.I know they are up to something,but won't know till dealer show in June or July. For the last several years ,when I own a bike I don't own a car.Rain or shine the bike goes,course living in Fl the last 21 years just required good rain gear.
I know exactly where you are coming from. I just spent the last 2 years on a Ultra and I miss the comfort (but little else). I have SOLVED the problem. After trying the J-Pegs, Mick-O's and lowered pegs, I just installed the Sportboard floorboards and am VERY pleased. The first time I rode with them, my foot instinctively reached back for the heel shifter (which wasn't there). That's how close it is to the Ultra feel! They aren't cheap but well worth it IMO.

I would like to install a heel-toe but from what I've read on this site, the weak linkage on the K12 can't handle it. Does anyone know if this is true?

Also, the boards will scrape on an aggressive turn, so you have to expect it when turning hard... but for most everyday riding, I'm liking them a lot!!!
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post #36 of 52 Old Jun 6th, 2006, 8:24 pm
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Quote:
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I would like to install a heel-toe but from what I've read on this site, the weak linkage on the K12 can't handle it. Does anyone know if this is true?
How about thishere

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post #37 of 52 Old Jun 6th, 2006, 9:21 pm
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If Harley would take the V-Rod engine/tranny and put it in a REAL touring bike, then a whole new market could open up for them.

The V-Rod has great straight line power, but unfortunately they did not put in a motorcycle that could really make use of it in anything other than basically straight line. I sat on one, and it was probably the MOST UNCOMFORTABLE sitting bike I ever swung a leg over. No wonder they are not selling.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
No bike now, but maybe in the future.
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post #38 of 52 Old Jun 6th, 2006, 9:28 pm
 
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Originally Posted by buddoggin
You make me want to sell my BMW!
I'll second that!
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post #39 of 52 Old Jun 6th, 2006, 9:36 pm
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
If Harley would take the V-Rod engine/tranny and put it in a REAL touring bike, then a whole new market could open up for them.
My thoughts exactly!!!
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post #40 of 52 Old Jun 6th, 2006, 9:39 pm
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMoore007
How about thishere
Yea, that's the one! I thought I read somewhere on here that the linkage on the LT couldn't handle it. I hope I'm wrong because I want that puppy.
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post #41 of 52 Old Jun 7th, 2006, 2:03 am
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There used to be a long wait on new Harleys because HD purposely limited production to maintain that elite status. Then they finally decided to just keep building them and see how many they could really sell. Add to that the brand image that can be bought on everything from t-shirts to doggie bowls, and they have taken their phenomenon to an outrageous level.

Personally I don't get it, but for a lot of people it's the ultimate status icon and proof that they can afford "the good life".

Ken
Pacific NorthWet
'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#143, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032


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Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #42 of 52 Old Jun 7th, 2006, 4:41 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
Personally I don't get it, but for a lot of people it's the ultimate status icon and proof that they can afford "the good life".
Ken, you are exactly correct and regardless of MC preference one has to recognize and applaud them for their marketing genius. Doggie bowls...ain't it the truth! What we ride is an extention of our own personality and how we would like to be viewed by others I suppose. The association with those who wear club "colors" and sport the Grizzly Adams, "I partied all night at the Clubhouse and am just now getting in" look is not for me, but to each his own.

Al Hennigan
'03 Anthracite LTE
'09 GS Adventure
Middle Tennessee
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post #43 of 52 Old Jun 7th, 2006, 5:46 am Thread Starter
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Wink

Heh, heh, heh...

Now to turn this thread around just a leetle bit:

What would you NOT change about a Harley?

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post #44 of 52 Old Jun 7th, 2006, 6:19 am
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Why, that little pouch up there on the handlebars where you keep yer shootin' iron and yer smokes!

Al Hennigan
'03 Anthracite LTE
'09 GS Adventure
Middle Tennessee
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post #45 of 52 Old Jun 7th, 2006, 6:50 am
 
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If you are selling your LT I might be interested
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post #46 of 52 Old Jun 7th, 2006, 6:54 am
 
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Is that the same engine I see in bikes where the front wheel bounces up and down like a cheap low rider when sitting at stop lights and where the hanldle bars vibrate so much you can see the fat jiggling on thier arms?
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post #47 of 52 Old Jun 7th, 2006, 7:19 am Thread Starter
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Cool

Well, here is one thang I betcha YOU wouldn't change...biker babes!!!!



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post #48 of 52 Old Jun 8th, 2006, 5:05 am
 
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While on on the subject of harley bashing

click me
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post #49 of 52 Old Jun 8th, 2006, 5:08 am
 
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My favourite web page thus far to get the HD crowd all fired up
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post #50 of 52 Old Jun 8th, 2006, 6:08 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawg
Hmmmm...

Been thinkin about how much I have enjoyed my LT. All the attributes that make the LT sooooo good.

Now, it is difficult to dispute that a HD is a true work of art...classic. But it is a leetle behind on technology. Two things that come to mind are the brakes and the front fork dive. Both nearly got me kilt before.

So, I would definitely change THOSE. But keep the good looks!

What would YOU change?

the rubber mounted swing arm assembly, and the reverse trees, the dang things just don't handle high speeds like the old 4 speed frames did! Heck I would still own the new glide if it did.



Tom

Tom

'07 GS Adv (mine), '06 GS <(My brides)
(the only bmw's in the stable)
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