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post #1 of 39 Old Jun 1st, 2006, 5:05 am Thread Starter
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Harley, BMW, Honda

If you were a motor cop which motorcycle would you choice to work off in an 8 to 10 hour day. Why would want that motorcycle. Maintenance, safety, cost, comfort, etc...... Why? Not trying to start a war or anti this or that. Trying to pick some brains. Which is more important, safety or cost and where do you draw the line???
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post #2 of 39 Old Jun 1st, 2006, 5:37 am
 
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...when it comes down to a choice that would directly have an impact on the lives and future happiness of your family, in which direction are you drawn to, safety or cost?
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post #3 of 39 Old Jun 1st, 2006, 6:21 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman587
Which is more important, safety or cost and where do you draw the line???
Here in France 1100RT always are the touring bestsellers, as will probably do the new 1200RT.
I guess BMW understood the complexity of an EVEN bike. That's what makes those bikes incredible. Great engine. Best rideability ever. German comfort...

My point is : Safety is more important. That's why you have to ride a BMW ! That's the reason why I sold my Aero. It was a heartbreaker but riding all year long, all weather with such a ride became really painfull. Sure the birth of my little girl was a cause too.

But the most important : you need to do the maintenance yourself, cause in this point, the line is so far away it's just a dart now...

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post #4 of 39 Old Jun 1st, 2006, 11:54 am Thread Starter
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What points can be made on which motors is safer and costs less????
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post #5 of 39 Old Jun 1st, 2006, 12:25 pm
 
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Ya'll have a mileage limit so considering that and the basic maintenance I'd have to go with the Harley..I don't know about now but back in the 50's and 60's the CHP had push bumpers on their Harley's to push cars off the roadway...

Also,the primary purpose of a motor cop is not to chase speeders but to control traffic and to pull over stupid drivers and chew them out ... The Harley being air cooled is far better for this kind of work... Sure the BMW, Honda have the performance but I don't buy the bad rep that Harley has for reliability, I've own over a dozen Harley's and have never ever been broke down on the side of the rode...

So if I could stay in the flow of traffic and chase speeders I'd go BMW then Honda but truth be told the Harley to me fits the roll of a motor cop better...............Regards Pete
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post #6 of 39 Old Jun 1st, 2006, 1:01 pm
 
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I few citys in So. Cal. have switched back to Harley because the maintenance was too high on BMW's. Overall, out here most are switching to the ST1300.
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post #7 of 39 Old Jun 1st, 2006, 1:39 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petepeterson
Also,the primary purpose of a motor cop is not to chase speeders but to control traffic and to pull over stupid drivers and chew them out ... The Harley being air cooled is far better for this kind of work... Pete
I have to admit you got me stumped on this one . Exactly how does an air cooled motorcycle have any functional advantage over a water cooled one in any street application let alone the ones you are suggesting? Certainly parameters such as ergonomic factors, adaptability of the platform, handling characteristics, hp/torque curves or gear ratios might be relevant but none of those are necessary dependant on the cooling system.

Just come up to Washington for the Oyster Run some time. It is an all day motorcycle traffic jam and there are hundreds of Harley's sitting on the shoulders of the road because of over heating. I should know because my Harley spent some time on the side of the road too. I took my LT last year and I pulled over to the shoulder just to keep my Harley riding buddies company .


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post #8 of 39 Old Jun 2nd, 2006, 4:46 am Thread Starter
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Does anyone know how old the push rod engine is?? Or how old the FLH frame is??
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post #9 of 39 Old Jun 2nd, 2006, 7:08 am
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman587
Does anyone know how old the push rod engine is?? Or how old the FLH frame is??
The twin cam 88 was introduced in 1999. The FLH frame was redesigned in 2002.
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post #10 of 39 Old Jun 2nd, 2006, 7:34 am
 
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If I were a MotorCop, the last bike I would want to ride in the world would be an H-D. Parking lot maneuvers are one thing, but maneuvering a Harley at highway speeds . . . you're kidding me?! And what about those brakes?!?! There's simply no comparing the brakes on a Harley, and those on the BMW, or any Jap bike for that matter.

I don't mean to bash Harleys here, but this thread has everything to do with function. And when it come to functionality, that is a Harley's secondary objective. They look good, and they sound good (to some). But relatively speaking, their functionality is a joke.

Choosing between the Honda, BMW, and Yamaha . . . that's where the lines get a little (LOT) more blurry.
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post #11 of 39 Old Jun 2nd, 2006, 9:38 am
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My two cents

My first BMW was a R1200C in 1998.....LOVED IT. In traffic HATED IT. It got hot plain and simple. Otherwise the most stylish, most admired bike I have ever had.

My second BMW was a R1150RT in 2004....LOVE IT. In Atlanta Traffic......HATE IT....It got hot plain and simple. I even made the modification and install the Fan which comes standard on the RTP but it still its a Air/Oil cooled bike and in situations were a motorcop would find him/her self.....NEVER. Otherwise the most confortable highway two up mile burner, and twisties fun riding bike I have ever had.

Now I have an 2002 LT. Would not trade that bike for any other..... its just the BEST.

Where am I going with this. I consider myself a BMW guy. They are the first bikes I look at whereever I go, whenever I am looking for a new bike and this is the truth. Now in between 1998 and 2004 I owned a 1993 Honda PC800 and that was also a very good bike. And before I bought my RT I test drove for many miles I friend of mine's ST1300, which I thought was an awsome bike.

But I honestly beleive that for power, cost of maintenance, cost of buying, comfort AND those situations mentioned above in traffic jams and congested city situations......as a biker.......and as a BMW guy......

I would buy a FLEET of ST1300's and NEVER look back.

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post #12 of 39 Old Jun 2nd, 2006, 12:18 pm Thread Starter
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Couple of reasons why we did not like the ST1300P was the heat and seating position, too forward, plus the lack of dealership on the knowledge of the ST1300P.
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post #13 of 39 Old Jun 2nd, 2006, 1:25 pm
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman587
Couple of reasons why we did not like the ST1300P was the heat and seating position, too forward, plus the lack of dealership on the knowledge of the ST1300P.

Many agencies in California are making the switch.
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post #14 of 39 Old Jun 2nd, 2006, 9:15 pm
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Hayabusa? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WOW! I was just reading through my new Cycle World magazine, and on page 38 there us a little blurb saying that Oklahoma State Police are getting HAYABUSA Police Interceptors!!!!!!!! They will be trained on them at California Superbike School! There is a small picture of one, black, with "State Trooper" on the side of the front fender.

Ok guys, slow down in Oklahoma now!

Who wudda thought OK would be the state to start something like this?

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post #15 of 39 Old Jun 2nd, 2006, 10:50 pm
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Guess you gotta have a ZX-14 to outrun one now.

Wasn't there a poster in the eighties with a Lamborghini painted up in CHP black & white?

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Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #16 of 39 Old Jun 2nd, 2006, 11:04 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
WOW! I was just reading through my new Cycle World magazine, and on page 38 there us a little blurb saying that Oklahoma State Police are getting HAYABUSA Police Interceptors!!!!!!!! They will be trained on them at California Superbike School! There is a small picture of one, black, with "State Trooper" on the side of the front fender.

Ok guys, slow down in Oklahoma now!

Who wudda thought OK would be the state to start something like this?
I'm signing up for duty in OK first thing Monday morning. Already been to Keith's school so I figure I'm a shoe in.

Now I'll FINALLY have a legal mount to keep up with the new 480 hp, zero to 60 in 3.4 seconds (with the automatic tranny, faster than popping gears and no explanation given why) Porsches.

I figure we're both about equal with a near 200 mph top speed.

I can just see flashing a badge and giving them a signal to pull over while I pass them at say... oh..... 175!


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post #18 of 39 Old Jun 3rd, 2006, 1:57 am
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I dunno, looks photoshopped to me. Try this link.

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Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #19 of 39 Old Jun 3rd, 2006, 2:59 am Thread Starter
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Did you read some of the comments???? LOL
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post #20 of 39 Old Jun 3rd, 2006, 6:08 am
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
...Oklahoma State Police are getting HAYABUSA Police Interceptors!!!!!!!! They will be trained on them at California Superbike School! There is a small picture of one, black, with "State Trooper" on the side of the front fender.
Yea...that's the ticket! The next thing we're hear is how the evil perps killed the MotorCop, even though he was exceeding 150MPH when he slammed into the rear of the perp's car. Unless they're arming these cops with some kind of laser gun that I don't know about...I'd say they better stay on their "parade bikes".


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post #21 of 39 Old Jun 3rd, 2006, 7:48 am
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Which would I buy for the Police
Harley's- The best of 1940 technology. No Way.
BMW- Maintenance too high, too often. No Way.
Honda would be my choice.

BMW needs to work on making maintenance easier and less frequent. The clutchs are BEASTS to replace.
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post #22 of 39 Old Jun 3rd, 2006, 8:59 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buddoggin
The twin cam 88 was introduced in 1999. The FLH frame was redesigned in 2002.
FLH was redesigned in 2002. Do you know what was done to it???? I know that it still has the wobble at speed and do remember HD changing something on that frame. Can not remember if it was a different rake or trail.
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post #23 of 39 Old Jun 3rd, 2006, 9:01 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickcavanaugh
Which would I buy for the Police
Harley's- The best of 1940 technology. No Way.
BMW- Maintenance too high, too often. No Way.
Honda would be my choice.

BMW needs to work on making maintenance easier and less frequent. The clutchs are BEASTS to replace.
Maintenance to high??? on the BMW. Service is just every 6000 miles and most motor cops hardly put that many miles on them in a year.

Honda lacks dealer support and can only speak in my area. If we had a better dealer support than I would say Honda and BMW a tie.
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post #24 of 39 Old Jun 3rd, 2006, 9:01 am
 
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Originally Posted by motorman587
FLH was redesigned in 2002. Do you know what was done to it???
Knowing nothing about Harleys, I thought that the two major areas of improvement were EFI, and the braking system.
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post #25 of 39 Old Jun 3rd, 2006, 9:08 am Thread Starter
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Help me out with this???
Leasing. You lease a motorcycle for $200 a month. In four years that is $9600. In that one year you get a service and a tire for about $500. $300 service and $200 give or take. In four years that is another $2000. When you trade them in there are lights to be switched out and maybe some damage charges. Another $500 a year or $2000 in four years. You have spend $14600 in four years, Right??

Buy. $18000 with lights and siren. Ride them for about 4 years. Low milage resale about $12000. Sevice a little more because of the valve job etc........about another $4000, give a take. So in 4 years you spend only $10000. Am I missing something, any points to add????/
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post #26 of 39 Old Jun 3rd, 2006, 9:09 am Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by messenger13
Knowing nothing about Harleys, I thought that the two major areas of improvement were EFI, and the braking system.
Also suspension. They have add an anti dive sustem on the front, I beleive.
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post #27 of 39 Old Jun 3rd, 2006, 1:28 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickcavanaugh
BMW needs to work on making maintenance easier and less frequent. The clutchs are BEASTS to replace.
All new BMWs come with a sealed rear drive with no fluid changes for the life of the bike. And the new K bikes have a multi-plate wet clutch, which lasts longer and is easier to replace. I think they're getting there, ABS maintenance excepted. But the dealers need something to keep them busy.

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post #28 of 39 Old Jun 4th, 2006, 8:07 pm
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So far you all forgot about politics and how little a cop has for input when the decisions are made as to which motorcycle a municipality will buy. Biggest factor is operational cost. Not safety or manuverability. My experience with Harley is with a then new 73 amf. It was junk from the word go and when the tranny locked up for the second time I walked away with a broken elbow. The only other experience with Harley was a 63 dual point Duo Glide. Never a real problem but it vibrated so much I couldn't keep my feet on the boards over 60 and if it wasn't leaking oil it was out of oil. The guy I bought it from sold it cause his wife had a BMW and he couldn't keep up.

If I had to choose a m/c for police work today it would have to be the BMW RT or the PDGS. Second would be the Honda ST. Harley might be okay for highway work but they are more show than go for the money. But then most m/c cops are posers anyway, right?
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post #29 of 39 Old Jun 5th, 2006, 2:05 am Thread Starter
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Everyone is saying operational cost is too high??? Were do you get this from. BMW service is 600 miles, 6k, 12k, 18k etc......... One service about $300??? Motor officer average 5000 miles a year, city. So the first year you spend $300, second year you spend $550 with tire. Next year same with tire.

With HD you are spending the same. First service 1k, 5k, 10k, 15k, your are spending the same amount in sevice. So where is the maintenance high on the BMWs??????
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post #30 of 39 Old Jun 5th, 2006, 2:54 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman587
***************** Motor officer average 5000 miles a year, city. ************
CHP is MUCH higher than that, even the ones based near the cities. They typically only keep the bikes for 60K, and I think most only last 2-3 years before being sold based on what my dealer told me.

I am surprised that even city police ride that little. My dealer serviced both city and CHP bikes, don't know what the miles for the city officers was though. I would imagine the San Diego PD rides more than 5K/year.

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post #31 of 39 Old Jun 10th, 2006, 5:55 am Thread Starter
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Can not say, but it is looking good. And there are departments that listen to the little man.
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post #32 of 39 Old Jun 10th, 2006, 6:21 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman587
If you were a motor cop which motorcycle would you choice to work off in an 8 to 10 hour day. Why would want that motorcycle. Maintenance, safety, cost, comfort, etc...... Why? Not trying to start a war or anti this or that. Trying to pick some brains. Which is more important, safety or cost and where do you draw the line???
IMHO it would be a hard choice between the hd and bmw

I would think the HD would be easier to handle all day long, i mean as far as sitting on it, getting on and off, low COG not worrying about if the kickstand is up to start it, not worrying about putting the kickstand down in a hurry and the bike rolling of the damn kickstand, crap like that i would think those would make the HD a good choice for a cop bike.

safety? well heck Iwould think the beemer would shine way above the others for breaking and handling.

I guess it depends if it were mainly for city police work or highway patrol work, since hd now has ABS and depending on how it it works, hd would be the choice, maintence would not be a issue for a cop bike to me, I mean really so what if it costs more to maintain, the important issue is the cop that is riding it having much better ease of use making his life a little easier through a long hot day on a MC.

JMHO

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post #33 of 39 Old Jun 10th, 2006, 6:25 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman587
FLH was redesigned in 2002. Do you know what was done to it???? I know that it still has the wobble at speed and do remember HD changing something on that frame. Can not remember if it was a different rake or trail.

it didn't work, it still has the wobble. there is yet another lawsuit in the works so i have heard rumor of.

they tried to solve the issue with a different front end dampning cartridge, a larger rear swingarm and axle now a larger front, but the issue is a rubber mounted swing arm shorter rake and reverse trees, add all that togehter and you willget a wobble effect as soon as the rear swing arm mountings start to wear, now if they would solid mount that rear swing arm to the frame instead of to the rubber mounted engine, they may get back the solid highway bike they once had

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post #34 of 39 Old Jun 10th, 2006, 6:36 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmgs
==============since hd now has ABS and depending on how it it works, hd would be the choice, ==============
JMHO

Tom
The last I have seen posted here and elsewhere was that HD ony offered ABS for the police model, but pulled it back because it never worked well. It was an automotive unit stuck in one of the saddlebags, had RF,LF, RR, and LR outputs, with two plugged.

Also, last I have seen posted was that the CHP tried hard to give the new contract to HD, but after multiple tries HD could not pass the specification testing, so they re-newed the contract with BMW.

All this is from information posted on Internet groups though, so I know it is true. Guess we will know for sure when we see CHiPs on R1200s instead of Harleys in the next year.

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post #35 of 39 Old Jun 10th, 2006, 6:51 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
The last I have seen posted here and elsewhere was that HD ony offered ABS for the police model, but pulled it back because it never worked well. It was an automotive unit stuck in one of the saddlebags, had RF,LF, RR, and LR outputs, with two plugged.

Also, last I have seen posted was that the CHP tried hard to give the new contract to HD, but after multiple tries HD could not pass the specification testing, so they re-newed the contract with BMW.

All this is from information posted on Internet groups though, so I know it is true. Guess we will know for sure when we see CHiPs on R1200s instead of Harleys in the next year.

hehehehe, I havent kept up lately.

It would be nice to see HD in our police use in this country instead of another countries bikes.

then again if I hadn;t got so tired of that new glide I bought I'd still be on HD. heck if i had never bought the new glide I would still be on hd.

Tom

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post #36 of 39 Old Jun 11th, 2006, 1:53 am
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Police motors

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Originally Posted by retiredjj
So far you all forgot about politics and how little a cop has for input when the decisions are made as to which motorcycle a municipality will buy. Biggest factor is operational cost. Not safety or manuverability. My experience with Harley is with a then new 73 amf. It was junk from the word go and when the tranny locked up for the second time I walked away with a broken elbow. The only other experience with Harley was a 63 dual point Duo Glide. Never a real problem but it vibrated so much I couldn't keep my feet on the boards over 60 and if it wasn't leaking oil it was out of oil. The guy I bought it from sold it cause his wife had a BMW and he couldn't keep up.

If I had to choose a m/c for police work today it would have to be the BMW RT or the PDGS. Second would be the Honda ST. Harley might be okay for highway work but they are more show than go for the money. But then most m/c cops are posers anyway, right?
Retiredjj hit the nail squarely on the panhead, shovelhead or any other head. My last choice in riding police motors for nearly 20 years was the H-D. Pure junk, plain and simple. Got great service from the discontinued Kawasaki KZ-1000-P, a work horse if there ever was one. Started every time and the parts stayed connected to the bike! Handling and performance far superior to H-D and maintenance was simple. Having ridden 10's of thousands of miles on my 3 LT's, I can only imagine the sheer pleasure of working 8-12 hours on a BMW rather than an H-D pachyderm! Finally, the CHP numbers for reduction in injuries to LEO's on the BMW's due largely to ABS, should seal the argument. I can't speak to the Honda issue, but they look like the Police bike of the future, if they can overtake the reigning police bike WORLDWIDE, the BMW.

Bill Hanna
Syracuse, NY
'01 K1200LT (mauve) traded
'04 K1200LT (Black Mariah) traded
'05 (Graphite)
Oh alright. . .I'll ride next to the Harley this time!
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post #37 of 39 Old Jun 12th, 2006, 5:01 am Thread Starter
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I wish I could tell you how our committee is doing. We had walk throughs on Friday and Thursday between both dealers. We sat down and voted and in two weeks again we do the finally vote. I can say anything more because of our sunshine law. I will once this is over.
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post #38 of 39 Old Jun 12th, 2006, 9:19 am
 
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Having owned every type of modern Harley except a Dyna, I can imagine that for police work there would be 2 major drawbacks of a Harley vs. a BMW or Honda:

1. They get hot. REALLY hot in slow traffic. Even with the high capacity optional oil cooler they can get so uncomfortable in the summer that it's hard to stand it.
2. Vibration. The TC88 engine found in the big touring bikes (which are the police bikes) is not the counterbalanced ("TC88B") one in the Softails. Vibrates like mad at lower speeds. Don't think that would be fun for 8 hours or so.

But, I never had a reliability problem with any of my 4 Harleys.
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post #39 of 39 Old Jun 12th, 2006, 9:21 am
 
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... of course, if you could put a big fairing, bigger gas tank, and big functional bags on a V-Rod, well then you'd have a Harley worth using for the police
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