Insurance co may total my bike - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 17 Old May 24th, 2006, 11:44 pm Thread Starter
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Insurance co may total my bike

After spending a week in the hospital I went to look at the Buffalo yesterday at Big Twin BMW in Boise,
she was scratched and battered and banged all over her beautiful body, kinda like the rider and passenger.
Then today I got the estimate,
the shop says the insurance company will probably total the bike as it will cost as much to fix her as she is worth.
damn all I did is hit just one little ole Elk,
I stood next to her, turned the key and she started right up like she was ready for our next adventure,
I just don't think I've got the heart to put her down.
I know some of you guys have been through this kinda stuff,
what are my options,
how does it all work,
what would you do?


Hans
St. Petersburg FL

2002 K1200LTE
"Silver Buffalo" Totaled 5/06
2005 LT
"Esperanza"
BushtecGenesisTrailer
"Our preferred long distance carrier"



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post #2 of 17 Old May 25th, 2006, 12:51 am
 
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Truly disappointed to hear about your accident Hans . There have been a lot of people following along on your trip and this is the LAST thing any of us wanted to hear.
How is your wife ?
If Boise has a new one in stock I would take it and start over at 0 miles-------IMHO.
Let us know how your recuperation goes .
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post #3 of 17 Old May 25th, 2006, 6:37 am
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Unhappy

Dammit, Mang!

Must a been asleep at da wheel and missed this post:

"Not so good right now Dick, and friends
hit an Elk north of Boise,
been in hospital for a week
wife's got a broken ankle
I got 4 broken ribs and a broken finger
Buffalo's banged up some.
Hope I killed the damn Elk

just checked in to a motel next to hospital
we got a lot of pain right now
I'll get the details out to ya when I'm able

This trip ain't over but it looks like there might be an intermission while we get things patched up.

without the gear it would a been a lot worse, I'm a believer."

Sure hope you and your wife are doing okay. That is a real downer, believe me, DAMHIK. May God bless you both.
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post #4 of 17 Old May 25th, 2006, 6:58 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverBuffalo
After spending a week in the hospital I went to look at the Buffalo yesterday at Big Twin BMW in Boise,
she was scratched and battered and banged all over her beautiful body, kinda like the rider and passenger.
Then today I got the estimate,
the shop says the insurance company will probably total the bike as it will cost as much to fix her as she is worth.
damn all I did is hit just one little ole Elk,
I stood next to her, turned the key and she started right up like she was ready for our next adventure,
I just don't think I've got the heart to put her down.
I know some of you guys have been through this kinda stuff,
what are my options,
how does it all work,
what would you do?
well IF the shop will work with you, You might have some options, but anymore once a INs company totals something it's title is destroyed and can not be rebuilt not even if you buy back from the ins company. at least in FL it's working like that anymore. i think it is sitting right at 75 % repair to value on vehicle and that depnds on how old it is, i still haven't figured out HOw they get % yet. heck they don;t know!

you might be able to get the shop to write the estimate lower and fix some minor stuff yourself,

BUT from what i have heard these K bikes in fact all the bmw's total easy! they have a tecdancy to crack the engine where the upper frame mounts to it, front end damage alone can be very expensive, I hit a pothole in NYC and it was a 4500 dollar repair bill in front end parts!!!

these are not near as sturdy as a HD in a accident so trying to rebuild a K LT wreck is costly particulary if there is any frame damage, and since it is all sub frames built around a engine ........ well you get the point.

my biggest fear with my K1200Lt is my bike being wrecked, i have 121k miles on her now the ins would total it in a heartbeat, which would mean I would be out about 13k dollars for her that would BITE! since I have a warranty till 2009.

TO ME, the bike is still worth much more than that, it would cost me a ton to replace her.

it is the down fall of owning a expensive vehicle, if it gets totalled you loose your tail, it's the reason I won't buy another new car ever. We had a 6 month old car totalled and lost about 40% on it, heck i had to pay off the bank after the insurance paid! and we put a good chunk down on the car!

Tom

Tom

'07 GS Adv (mine), '06 GS <(My brides)
(the only bmw's in the stable)
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post #5 of 17 Old May 25th, 2006, 9:48 am
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I just went through this with my RT. Now I have an LT!

My neighbor backed into my RT one morning about three months ago, and the bike tipped over. She left a note. Neither one of us expected the repair estimate would be $5000! Apparently, the subframe that holds the fairing in place was bent ONE-HALF INCH to the side, thus driving the cost way up. Whatever.

The retail on the bike was $6-$8000. That put us right at the 80% cut-off for this insurance company's totaling threshold. I was able to avoid having them total it, still got the full $5000 damages, and I fixed the bike myself for $800 (sans the subframe). I then sold the bike and bought an LT with the residual proceeds from the insurance and the sale. It was basically a free upgrade.

So, here are seven ideas for your consideration:

1. Be VERY POLITE to the insurance rep. Joke around, ask about the weather there, etc. Communicate well and follow up. It turned out that the insurance company wanted to total my bike, but the rep recommended not doing so because "she thought I wouldn't want that." Heck, they didn't even send an adjustor out - just a check for the full amount requested. It's good to cultivate a double-agent on the inside.

2. Ask how they value vehicles. The company I dealt with used NADA guides. Look up the NADA guides and find the range for your vehicle ($6-$8k for my RT).

3. Determine how you're going to push the upper limits of that range of values. The higher you can push the value of your bike, the smaller your repair estimate will be in comparison. Most companies have a percentage threshold at which they will automatically total the bike. For example: if you have a bike with a $10k retail value and $5k in damages, you're at 50%, which is below the totaling threshold for most companies. Conversely, if your bike is worth $6k, that same $5k repair estimate is now 83% of the value of the bike, which is sure to be totaled. So, start adding up the farkles you've installed permanently. Lights, GPS, shelf, etc etc etc etc.... get that value HIGH. Be ready to send in pics of your farkles along with print-outs of retail values IF requested.

4. Explicitly ask them not to total your bike. But don't sound needy on the issue, either. Weakness is an invitiation to open negotiations. You might get lowballed by an insurance rep who is aspiring to a management position.

5. Document everything. If you talk to an insurance rep, write down what that person told you & when. If there is a later discrepancy (as I had... a $500 "omission"), you can politely refer back "to you conversation of the 15th, wherein you indicated that the HID lighting was correctly included in the valuation of this vehicle."

6. If it appears they might total the bike, start calculating your collateral damage. You might be entitled to the cost of a rental vehicle from the time of the collision until they cut the check. You might have medical coverage issues. Be sure to include the cost of the repair estimate itself. Transportation to the hospital? Towing and storage costs of the battered LT? See what hidden costs you come up with upon reflection.

7. If they do total the bike, any farkle not permanently installed should disappear. I'll leave it to you to determine the definition of a "permanent" install.

And I note that if the bike is totaled, you'll get the full retail value of the bike as it was on the date of loss. Thus, you will not have any economic loss by way of the accident. LT's are showing up in the classifieds here at great prices. So, totaling the bike is not the end of the world.

I wish you and your wife a very speedy recovery.

Good Luck
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post #6 of 17 Old May 25th, 2006, 10:36 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmgs
... but anymore once a INs company totals something it's title is destroyed and can not be rebuilt not even if you buy back from the ins company. at least in FL it's working like that anymore....
I was surprised to see that, so I did some poking around in the Florida statutes. Indeed, there are some restrictions akin to the one quoted above. Since I'm extremely wary of giving legal advice here - which I am NOT permitted to do - let me just recommend that you locate, read and understand the following before you talk with the insurance company:

Fla. Stat. Secs. 319.30(2)-(3)

With particular attention to the pivotally important language in:

Fla. Stat. Sec. 319.30(3)(a)(2)
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post #7 of 17 Old May 25th, 2006, 11:02 am
 
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Ins. in Florida

Yuo're right about Fl.We got caught in a hailstorm on our way to our summer place in Ky.Older chrysler mini van.Cost to repair was equal to value of van and we can'nt keep it.If titled in Ky,wecould have.
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post #8 of 17 Old May 25th, 2006, 9:35 pm
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Red face

Hi Hans , That is a bummer . I hope you both heel up fast . I don't have any words of wisdom for as what to do , other that hang in there ,... it will get better .
On a nether note , My wife and enjoyed meeting you two last winter in Florida wile we were playing snow bird . Maybe we will see you there next winter ...Patric...

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2010 R1200GSA ...1987 Helix...
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post #9 of 17 Old May 25th, 2006, 10:06 pm Thread Starter
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thanks for all the help guys, especially Michael for pointing me in the right direction.
I quit taking the pain meds, I would rather have the pain than the way they make me feel.
My head is finally starting to clear up a little, this is what I learned

Pursuant to section 319.30(3)(b), Florida Statutes (1995), once a vehicle has been declared nonrebuildable, the Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles is prohibited from issuing any title for the vehicle other than a "nonrebuildable" title, and the vehicle cannot be legally operated on Florida's public roads.

and more of the same

Section 319.30(3)(a)(2), Florida Statutes, reads, "A motor
vehicle or mobile home shall not be considered a "total
loss" if the insurance company and owner of a motor
vehicle or mobile home agree to repair, rather than to
replace, the motor vehicle or mobile home. However, if the
actual cost to repair the motor vehicle or mobile home to
the insurance company exceeds 100 percent of the cost of
replacing the wrecked or damaged motor vehicle or mobile
home with one of like kind and quality, the owner shall
forward to the department, within 72 hours after the
agreement, a request to brand the certificate of title with the
words "Total Loss Vehicle".Ē This addition to the Florida
Statute applies to DMV procedure TL-36 ďTotal Loss
Settlements Involving Insurance CompaniesĒ.��


I still have a couple more questions because I'm suspicious of insurance companies even reputable ones like State Farm which has all of my policies.

Yesterday a real nice girl from the ins co called and wanted to talk to my wife, to hear her side of the story, she said that if I was negligable my wife could file a case against me for damages and she just wanted to make sure we were getting all we are entitled to.
Am I just paranoid or does that sound kinda fishy?

Today the ins adjuster from Idaho left a message on my machine in FL saying that they will probably total the bike since the estimate came in over 13K and they need my permission to move the bike to their salvage yard for evaluation.
If its totaled what do they need to evaluate.
I still haven't talked about if my permanently installed upgrades are covered like my $750 three piece leather Rick Mayer seats, HID headlight etc. etc.
I know these are question for my agent but I would like to hear about your experience/opinions also.
Is protective gear, helmets, jackets covered how about anything that's attached to the bike like a trailer?
some of that stuff like the seats I'd like to keep as I plan on getting another K12 as soon as I'm physically able.
I'm at a real disadvantage being so far away from home


Hans
St. Petersburg FL

2002 K1200LTE
"Silver Buffalo" Totaled 5/06
2005 LT
"Esperanza"
BushtecGenesisTrailer
"Our preferred long distance carrier"



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post #10 of 17 Old May 25th, 2006, 11:49 pm
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What happened to the Elk? Hopefully the hotel you are staying at has a BBQ grill by the pool and you are getting your satisfaction with a bottle of A.1. All joking aside I am with everyone here in wishing you and the Mrs. a speedy recovery and resolution on the Ins situation. Take care.

Elk Burger Dumpling Stew
1 1/2 lbs game, meat, lean, ground
1 1/2 teaspoons salt
1/8 teaspoon pepper
onion juice
1/3 cup fat, your choice
1 tablespoon flour
2 cups hot water
1 cup tomato juice
1 tablespoon chili sauce

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post #11 of 17 Old May 26th, 2006, 8:08 am
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Hans,
From my experience with State Farm, anything permanently attached to the bike will be covered. That includes a trailer damaged as it is being towed by the insured vehicle. You may have needed aditional coverage to cover your riding gear. Not sure about that. You may also be covered for hotel expenses, per diem and a flight home.
I, like everyone else, was sad to hear of the accident. Take care..

Don Mosley MSgt, USAF, Retired
Colorado Springs, CO
05 K1200LT, 06 F650GS

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post #12 of 17 Old May 26th, 2006, 9:17 am
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I know the feeling! I only saw my bike a little after the accident, while we were at the side of the road. After I got out of the hospital my wife and I went by the tow yard on the way back to San Diego, but the owner said the insurance company had just taken the bike to Phoenix. That really tore me up! I never got to tell the bike goodbye, and it had been my cherished companion for 4 years and 110,000 miles.

Now I wish I had bought it back from the insurance company. Would have taken quite a while, and searching for a lot of used parts, but I would have kept it's soul intact and be riding again. I still get misty eyed thinking about it.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
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post #13 of 17 Old May 26th, 2006, 10:49 am
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Riding a repaired LT

Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
Now I wish I had bought it back from the insurance company. Would have taken quite a while, and searching for a lot of used parts, but I would have kept it's soul intact and be riding again.
David, do you think that, in these instances of extensive damages, there would be a residual risk of malfunction, even after a full-repair? I would hate to see my bike go to the bone yard, but then again, I'd hate to think that there remains some latent defect like a cracked/bent frame, weakened steer tube, etc., just waiting to fail. But I'm uninformed on these issues; what's your take?
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post #14 of 17 Old May 26th, 2006, 11:41 pm Thread Starter
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I can relate to losing an old friend even though I only had the LT one day shy of a year, it was a 28 thousand mile year.
The first time I went and looked at her she didn't look that bad, must have been the drugs, because when I went back 2 days later she looked rough, the whole "nose" was pushed over to the right and there was not a single piece of tupperware that didn't need to be replaced and that's just the visible things, I removed some things, took a longing look at that rear tire with less than a hundred miles on it and silently said goodby.
I can't get any answers from the insurance company, my agent in Florida knows nothing except when my payments are due, the Idaho adjuster claims not to know Florida policy (probably true) but said that helmets and gear are covered when required by state law.
That makes sense except I don't know of any laws requiring gear other than helmets anywhere. Florida allows helmet-less riding providing you have medical insurance, I don't know where that leaves me?
I question the logic of helmets are covered where they are required, does that mean if I'm riding in a helmet law state they're covered and not in a non-law state?
Or am I just beating myself up trying to mix logic and insurance?


Hans
St. Petersburg FL

2002 K1200LTE
"Silver Buffalo" Totaled 5/06
2005 LT
"Esperanza"
BushtecGenesisTrailer
"Our preferred long distance carrier"



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post #15 of 17 Old May 26th, 2006, 11:44 pm Thread Starter
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And I just had another realization,
This is the first time since I was 17 years old that I have not owned a bike.


Hans
St. Petersburg FL

2002 K1200LTE
"Silver Buffalo" Totaled 5/06
2005 LT
"Esperanza"
BushtecGenesisTrailer
"Our preferred long distance carrier"



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post #16 of 17 Old May 27th, 2006, 2:30 am
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Get the policy

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverBuffalo
I can't get any answers from the insurance company, my agent in Florida knows nothing except when my payments are due, the Idaho adjuster claims not to know Florida policy (probably true) but said that helmets and gear are covered when required by state law.
That makes sense except I don't know of any laws requiring gear other than helmets anywhere. Florida allows helmet-less riding providing you have medical insurance, I don't know where that leaves me?
Again, nobody in his right mind would rely on my babblings.
This is not legal advice!


The answers to most of your questions will be found in your insuring agreement, otherwise known as your "policy." Since it's unlikely that you travel with a copy of your policy, you should call a claims rep and have it faxed to you.

It's very important that everyone read their insurance policies. To drive the point home: if you had been insured by Geico and had been on an Iron Butt rally, you would have just bought your bike. There is an exclusion for those competitions... zero coverage. So you say you'll just forget to tell them of the Iron Butt participation - you'll thereby add 'fraud' to your list of problems.

My Geico policy indicates that the Helmet is covered, but all other rider wear is not covered. It also provides that no accessories or customizations are covered unless (i) reported to Geico before any accident, and (ii) the sales receipts are provided along with any claim for their reimbursement. Your State Farm policy will most likely address these issues, too. It's definitely worth the 45 minutes it will take a rider to read and understand the binding contract into which he has entered with his insurance company.

As for the "really nice insurance girl" who called your wife... she's right. If you were proven to have been negligent, your wife would have a claim for damages against you. "No problem," you might reply, "my wife won't sue me." Unfortunately, she might not have a say in the matter, as her claim for damages will likely be owned by the insurance company that paid for her medical care. In her medical insurance policy (as in your cycle policy), there's likely to be found a "subrogation of rights" provision. A subrogation provision basically says that if the insurance company pays you for damages caused by a third party, any legal rights you had against that third party now belong to the insurance company. It makes sense. If this language weren't there, the insurance company would have no way to get it's money back - it couldn't sue the wrongdoer. Keep in mind that if you are sued, your insurance policy probably provides for the duty to defend, which means that State Farm will, as part of its contractual obligation to you, pay for a law firm to represent you throughout litigation or settlement - no additional cost to you. It is for these reasons that if the "nice girl" who called is from your insurance company, she'll probably want a release from your wife, and if the "nice girl" is from your wife's medical insurance company, she'll want all the damaging details that might indicate the need to investigate further. This paragraph is intended to be educational, and not to indicate any particular prudent course of action.

At any rate, I'm speaking completely hypothetically in this post; I cannot speculate as the the probability (or lack thereof!) of any of these things actually becoming issues. But I can tell you that your main concern right now should be the physical and emotional recovery of you and your wife. Get home, get relaxed, get informed and get a new bike. Anything else can be dealt with in time.
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post #17 of 17 Old May 27th, 2006, 8:43 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midwilshire
David, do you think that, in these instances of extensive damages, there would be a residual risk of malfunction, even after a full-repair? I would hate to see my bike go to the bone yard, but then again, I'd hate to think that there remains some latent defect like a cracked/bent frame, weakened steer tube, etc., just waiting to fail. But I'm uninformed on these issues; what's your take?
That is certainly something to be concerned about. The frame is not likely to be damaged beyond the sub frame tabs breaking off though. That is one massive aluminum structure! If I had bought the bike back and found broken tabs I would have just welded them back. These are not critical at all, just support for the sub frame pieces.

I would remove the final drive and swing arm and check them over carefully for any cracks, if none found, probably no problems.

The forks would have to be checked carefully for cracks, and the inner tubes removed and checked for straitness.

Same for the fork bridges, check for cracks and straitness. If the Telelever looked straight, I would probably replace the ball joint. That is one piece I would not trust if it had been hit hard, easy enough to just replace it.

The Lt can suffer massive cosmetic damage, and still not have any real structural damages. The most likely problems will be in the front suspension.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
No bike now, but maybe in the future.
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