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post #1 of 12 Old Mar 14th, 2014, 12:01 pm Thread Starter
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Interesting Countersteering Video

This video gives a simplified explanation of how countersteering works:

The Physics of Countersteering

Ken
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All lower 48 states plus Alaska on the K13GT in two weeks . . .

Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #2 of 12 Old Mar 14th, 2014, 1:48 pm
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Re: Interesting Countersteering Video

I wonder why there was no discussion of gyroscopic precession.
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post #3 of 12 Old Mar 14th, 2014, 2:49 pm
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Re: Interesting Countersteering Video

I would say that it is not mentioned because, in the front end of a motorcycle, it is a relatively weak force.

Were it not, your bike would have a strong tendency to steer to the left, increasing as speed increases.

Since it does not we can intue, empirically, that the force is weak and has no discernible effect.

We can also demonstrate the magnitude of the force with physics and show its magnitude relative to the other forces, but that won't change the answer above.

Tom

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post #4 of 12 Old Mar 14th, 2014, 4:34 pm
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Re: Interesting Countersteering Video

I'm still trying to "intue" whether or not you're serious.
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post #5 of 12 Old Mar 14th, 2014, 6:14 pm
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Re: Interesting Countersteering Video

Quite serious.

Gyroscopic precession is a real force, but in the face of the other forces involved it is small and doesn't have a measureable effect on motorcycle handling.

Think of it this way - the gravitational pull of the sun and the moon are real forces that effect the world around us. They pull on our bodies, but we don't lean over in their presence as the effect of those forces pale in comparison to the earth's gravity, the wind, and even inebriation. OK, I suppose I might be affected by the moon's gravity when sufficiently inebriated. Perhaps it is what causes me to fall over. But I digress...

There has been quite a bit of work done on how two-wheeled vehicles stay upright and how they turn, much of it on bicycles. One fellow went so far as to mount a counter-rotating front wheel on a bicycle to negate the effects of "gyroscopic forces" and pretty well showed that the gyroscopic forces weren't what held the bike up.

The topic is a most excellent way to start an argument with cycling physicists. Or people who cycle and frequent Holiday Inns...

I have an interesting book, written some time ago, called "Bicycle Science". It delves into matter quite deeply and, I always thought, somewhat inconclusively. Interesting none the less.

Tom

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post #6 of 12 Old Mar 14th, 2014, 11:42 pm
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Re: Interesting Countersteering Video

I never realized, until that video, that countersteering created a force throwing you out of one arc and into another. Learn something new every day


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post #7 of 12 Old Mar 16th, 2014, 11:32 am
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Re: Interesting Countersteering Video

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12R12RT View Post
Quite serious.

Gyroscopic precession is a real force, but in the face of the other forces involved it is small and doesn't have a measureable effect on motorcycle handling.

Think of it this way - the gravitational pull of the sun and the moon are real forces that effect the world around us. They pull on our bodies, but we don't lean over in their presence as the effect of those forces pale in comparison to the earth's gravity, the wind, and even inebriation. OK, I suppose I might be affected by the moon's gravity when sufficiently inebriated. Perhaps it is what causes me to fall over. But I digress...

There has been quite a bit of work done on how two-wheeled vehicles stay upright and how they turn, much of it on bicycles. One fellow went so far as to mount a counter-rotating front wheel on a bicycle to negate the effects of "gyroscopic forces" and pretty well showed that the gyroscopic forces weren't what held the bike up.

The topic is a most excellent way to start an argument with cycling physicists. Or people who cycle and frequent Holiday Inns...

I have an interesting book, written some time ago, called "Bicycle Science". It delves into matter quite deeply and, I always thought, somewhat inconclusively. Interesting none the less.

Tom
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post #8 of 12 Old Mar 16th, 2014, 9:36 pm
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Re: Interesting Countersteering Video

Why was the motorcycle on the wrong side of the road?!? If the bike had been in the proper lane, the pothole would have been a non-issue.

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post #9 of 12 Old Mar 16th, 2014, 10:42 pm
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Re: Interesting Countersteering Video

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarinPhil View Post
Say What.
Gyroscopic precession:


All the other forces:


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post #10 of 12 Old Mar 16th, 2014, 11:01 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Interesting Countersteering Video

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee510 View Post
Why was the motorcycle on the wrong side of the road?!?
I heard the guys at the Cambridge Science Centre (that's Cambridge, England) who made this video, actually ride and drive on the left side of the road, not the right.

Something to do with having your sword handy when passing a random stranger all those years ago . . .

The funny accent should've clued you in.

Ken
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'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles miles and counting...
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
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All lower 48 states plus Alaska on the K13GT in two weeks . . .

Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #11 of 12 Old Mar 17th, 2014, 10:01 am
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Re: Interesting Countersteering Video

Cool, thanks for posting, Ken. Never thought about the physics of the counter steer, only that it works very well.

Benny C. (Central Texas)
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post #12 of 12 Old Mar 17th, 2014, 12:59 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Interesting Countersteering Video

I actually figured out countersteering when racing BMX bikes as a kid, though I didn't know what to call it back then. Spent many days experimenting on different corners to get it right, and many hours running the same corner over and over again.

It was quite a rush the first time I flew high into a berm at full speed and shoved that inside grip down hard to drop straight down the berm, passing 3 other bikes to take the lead. Maintaining my momentum and pedaling straight down the berm gave me enough of an edge to keep the lead over the finish line.

Years later I studied Robotics and Control Systems and learned the physics behind it all, and that there were actually equations that described everything in great detail. Fascinating.

These days, it's a simple push on the inside grip and fast but smooth twist of the throttle to get that same thrill.

Ken
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'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles and counting...
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles miles and counting...
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#143, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032


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All lower 48 states plus Alaska on the K13GT in two weeks . . .

Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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