VIN Numbers & Titles for parts - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 22 Old Aug 31st, 2013, 10:29 am Thread Starter
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VIN Numbers & Titles for parts

I was browsing on Ebay and happened to look at the 1100 and 1150 motors that are up for sale (among others), even though I don't need one. What struck me was that there were no titles to accompany the complete engines. The Vin for my RT is stamped on the engine block, so that essentially means that the title goes to the engine, and not the bike if they are separated, the same as my '26 Buick. I would imagine that many are unaware of this... although I suspect that very few people are buying replacement engines, except for parts, especially with the prices! Just thought it was interesting...

1970 BSA 441
1979 Yamaha 350 Exciter
1952 Ariel 350 Red Hunter
1946 Ariel 500 Red Hunter
1949 Velocette 350
1950 AJS 500
2001 Harley Softtail
2004 BMW R1150rt
2006 883 Sportster
2007 Vstar 1100

another 2004 RT
1972 Moto Guzzi Eldorado
1969 Moto Guzzi 750
1970 Moto Guzzi 750
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post #2 of 22 Old Aug 31st, 2013, 2:41 pm
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Re: VIN Numbers & Titles for parts

I enjoy calling folks on Craigslist with "questionable" parts and frames, and ask for the VIN. It's usually followed by a clicking sound, then, for whatever reason, the call goes dead. Wonder what that's all about?
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post #3 of 22 Old Aug 31st, 2013, 2:55 pm
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Re: VIN Numbers & Titles for parts

The VIN numbers can be on several locations on the bike. The title should go with the frame & the engine would just need a receipt.

Dave Selvig
2004 Black LT
2000 Canon Red LT



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post #4 of 22 Old Aug 31st, 2013, 3:27 pm
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Re: VIN Numbers & Titles for parts

Always good to call local law enforcement and ask them to run the VIN for stolen.
And to say "VIN number" is incorrect. VIN stands for vehicle identification number.
Pet peeve, but I'll get back on my meds now.
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post #5 of 22 Old Aug 31st, 2013, 7:32 pm
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Re: VIN Numbers & Titles for parts

I believe that the ID number is associated primarily with the frame rather than the motor. On both my BMWs the # is stamped on the main frame and subframe. When I looked at frames on ebay, many of them come with a title if you buy both parts (usually salvage of course). Engines are occasionally replaced for one reason or another, doing this is a huge job, but take a look at the procedure to replace the frame, the engine is just one of the steps.

Now on bikes where the motor is part of the frame (like Victory) I suppose it becomes a little more confusing.

-Steve

2000 BMW K1200LT
2000 BMW R1200C
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post #6 of 22 Old Sep 1st, 2013, 8:16 am Thread Starter
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Re: VIN Numbers & Titles for parts

That all makes sense. Brings up another question... where is the frame number on my '04 1150RT? Is it somewhere to be seen without removing painted parts? I am always curious about these things.

1970 BSA 441
1979 Yamaha 350 Exciter
1952 Ariel 350 Red Hunter
1946 Ariel 500 Red Hunter
1949 Velocette 350
1950 AJS 500
2001 Harley Softtail
2004 BMW R1150rt
2006 883 Sportster
2007 Vstar 1100

another 2004 RT
1972 Moto Guzzi Eldorado
1969 Moto Guzzi 750
1970 Moto Guzzi 750
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post #7 of 22 Old Sep 1st, 2013, 1:00 pm
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Re: VIN Numbers & Titles for parts

VIN hasn't been on BMW motorcycle engines since about 1980.

Kent Christensen
Albuquerque
'12 R1200RT, '02 R1100S, '84 R80G/S
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post #8 of 22 Old Sep 1st, 2013, 1:59 pm
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Re: VIN Numbers & Titles for parts

Quote:
Originally Posted by fpmlt
And to say "VIN number" is incorrect. VIN stands for vehicle identification number.
How do you feel about ATM machine?

Ken
Pacific NorthWet
'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles and counting...
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles miles and counting...
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#143, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032


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All lower 48 states plus Alaska on the K13GT in two weeks . . .

Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #9 of 22 Old Sep 1st, 2013, 2:01 pm
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Re: VIN Numbers & Titles for parts

Quote:
Originally Posted by lkchris
VIN hasn't been on BMW motorcycle engines since about 1980.
Yep, but there is an engine number stamped into the casing.

Ken
Pacific NorthWet
'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles and counting...
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles miles and counting...
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#143, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032


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All lower 48 states plus Alaska on the K13GT in two weeks . . .

Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #10 of 22 Old Sep 1st, 2013, 2:25 pm Thread Starter
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Re: VIN Numbers & Titles for parts

Quote:
Originally Posted by lkchris
VIN hasn't been on BMW motorcycle engines since about 1980.
If there is no VIN, then why does my title have the engine number (and refered to as the VIN)? The gal at the Motor Vehicle Division got down on her hands and knees with me and shined her flashlight on that number... only then could I title the bike. Try doing that without a number. The VIN is the engine block number, it would seem.

1970 BSA 441
1979 Yamaha 350 Exciter
1952 Ariel 350 Red Hunter
1946 Ariel 500 Red Hunter
1949 Velocette 350
1950 AJS 500
2001 Harley Softtail
2004 BMW R1150rt
2006 883 Sportster
2007 Vstar 1100

another 2004 RT
1972 Moto Guzzi Eldorado
1969 Moto Guzzi 750
1970 Moto Guzzi 750
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post #11 of 22 Old Sep 2nd, 2013, 11:43 am
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Re: VIN Numbers & Titles for parts

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
How do you feel about ATM machine?
Same as I do "PIN number"!!!!
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post #12 of 22 Old Sep 2nd, 2013, 11:43 am
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Re: VIN Numbers & Titles for parts

And while we're at it, why do we "roll down" electric windows in our cars?
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post #13 of 22 Old Sep 2nd, 2013, 12:34 pm
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Re: VIN Numbers & Titles for parts

Rear taillight

Kent Christensen
Albuquerque
'12 R1200RT, '02 R1100S, '84 R80G/S
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post #14 of 22 Old Sep 2nd, 2013, 12:39 pm
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Re: VIN Numbers & Titles for parts

VIN on my R1200RT is on the steering head, visible sitting on the bike.

VIN for vehicle made in Germany starts with "W."

Don't know where it is on OIlheads, but it can't be on the engine as you'd never find it on an RT.

Albuquerque has best BMW motorcycle dealer in the country (or equal best)--call service department and ask them where an Oilhead VIN is.

Kent Christensen
Albuquerque
'12 R1200RT, '02 R1100S, '84 R80G/S
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post #15 of 22 Old Sep 2nd, 2013, 2:29 pm Thread Starter
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Re: VIN Numbers & Titles for parts

Quote:
Originally Posted by lkchris

VIN for vehicle made in Germany starts with "W."

Don't know where it is on OIlheads, but it can't be on the engine as you'd never find it on an RT.
Wow... are you way off! If you don't know where it is on oilheads then how can you say that it can't be on the engine? It is on the engine block on my RT and can be clearly seen by peering between the cylinder head and the fairing. My VIN starts: WB104... meaning that it is German made, from Jan 2004. The number on the engine is identified as the VIN on my New Mexico title. Hey, you're the one that said that BMW engines after 1980 don't have VINs, right? I am sure it is the engine,,, well, mostly. It is the part that has oil inside and two big knobby things that stick out on the sides that go clickity click, right? I see that the challenge has been declared, and I am ready to defend my VIN. I think we should square off with titles at ten paces. Although I just had a horrible thought! Suppose I am the victim of a black market in Beemers with lawnmower engines? I know for a fact that mowers have engine numbers...

1970 BSA 441
1979 Yamaha 350 Exciter
1952 Ariel 350 Red Hunter
1946 Ariel 500 Red Hunter
1949 Velocette 350
1950 AJS 500
2001 Harley Softtail
2004 BMW R1150rt
2006 883 Sportster
2007 Vstar 1100

another 2004 RT
1972 Moto Guzzi Eldorado
1969 Moto Guzzi 750
1970 Moto Guzzi 750
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post #16 of 22 Old Sep 2nd, 2013, 2:50 pm
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Re: VIN Numbers & Titles for parts

Quote:
Originally Posted by saddleman
The VIN numbers can be on several locations on the bike. The title should go with the frame & the engine would just need a receipt.
As an old auto theft detective that is correct. An engine or transmission in any vehicle can be replaced but it's still the same vehicle.

On side not I used to love the officers who would get on the radio and call us to ask "Can you tell me where to find the confidential VIN on this car?" "ummmmmm NO!"

Chris Ehlbeck
2002 BMW K1200LTE Toscana Green Retired with 85,391 miles
2014 BMW R1200RT Quartz Blue Metallic

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post #17 of 22 Old Sep 2nd, 2013, 3:04 pm
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Re: VIN Numbers & Titles for parts

Some VIN trivia?
  • The U.S. went to a standardized VIN system if 17 characters for motor vehicles in 1981.
  • There is no "I" or "O (oh)" in a VIN, they are 1 and 0 (zero)
  • On passenger cars and light trucks (at minimum) the VIN plate, by regulation has to be where a police officer standing at the "driver's door post" can see the plate. In other words, it is not always on the dashboard.
  • No matter what anyone tells you, the VIN does not contain the color of the vehicle.
  • Engines and transmissions do not have VINs, they have serial numbers. But they may contain both.

Oh and that funny font that GM uses on VIN plates? They own that font.

Chris Ehlbeck
2002 BMW K1200LTE Toscana Green Retired with 85,391 miles
2014 BMW R1200RT Quartz Blue Metallic

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post #18 of 22 Old Sep 2nd, 2013, 3:52 pm
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Re: VIN Numbers & Titles for parts

The Clymer Manual for the R series 1993 - 2005 states:

1. The engine serial number is stamped on a pad on the right-hand side of the crankcase below the cylinder.

2. The frame serial number is stamped on the the right-hand side of the front frame next to the steering stem.

3. The VIN label plate is attached to the right-hand side of the front frame below the frame stamped serial number.

Dave Selvig
2004 Black LT
2000 Canon Red LT



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post #19 of 22 Old Sep 2nd, 2013, 3:58 pm Thread Starter
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Re: VIN Numbers & Titles for parts

OK... the rules for VINs by NHTSA state that for Motorcycles:
"(e) The VIN of each vehicle shall appear clearly and indelibly upon either a part of the vehicle, other than the glazing, that is not designed to be removed except for repair or upon a separate plate or label that is permanently affixed to such a part."
BMW chose to put the number on engine blocks for the 1100 and 1150 RT series (I can't say for others, and this is probably because of all the shrouding by the tupperware), and it does not appear anywhere else on the bike. According to NHTSA, this is the 17 digit VIN that conforms to their rules. It is the VIN, and it is on the engine... period. Now, I have thrown down the gauntlet! When I said "it does not appear anywhere else on the bike" (although I have looked) I was talking out my ass, for I don't really know. Instead of telling me that my VIN is not really my VIN, how about telling me where else it appears? Please, no opinions or conjecture... does somebody really know? Notice, I am being politically correct and not saying ATM... Whoops, I mean "VIN Number". I started this post to determine if the VIN number... I mean, the VIN! (damn!), is located somewhere else besides the engine. Come on, you experts!

1970 BSA 441
1979 Yamaha 350 Exciter
1952 Ariel 350 Red Hunter
1946 Ariel 500 Red Hunter
1949 Velocette 350
1950 AJS 500
2001 Harley Softtail
2004 BMW R1150rt
2006 883 Sportster
2007 Vstar 1100

another 2004 RT
1972 Moto Guzzi Eldorado
1969 Moto Guzzi 750
1970 Moto Guzzi 750

Last edited by radarcarve; Sep 2nd, 2013 at 4:37 pm.
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post #20 of 22 Old Sep 2nd, 2013, 5:43 pm
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Re: VIN Numbers & Titles for parts

According to my Clymer Manual you will need to remove the right-side engine cover to find your VIN plate on the RT1100 & RT1150.

Dave Selvig
2004 Black LT
2000 Canon Red LT



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post #21 of 22 Old Sep 2nd, 2013, 7:58 pm
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Re: VIN Numbers & Titles for parts

Quote:
Originally Posted by radarcarve
If there is no VIN, then why does my title have the engine number (and refered to as the VIN)? The gal at the Motor Vehicle Division got down on her hands and knees with me and shined her flashlight on that number... only then could I title the bike. Try doing that without a number. The VIN is the engine block number, it would seem.
Did it in july. Walked in with the title and they rubber stamped it, charged me money and I walked out. they had no desire to even look at the bike.

In fact I have never had anyone inspect anything I do a title transfer on or license.. Except for a home made trailer, the guy wanted to see photos of it to see it had lights and was not made of scrap lumber.

Currently riding a 2003 K1200LTC
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post #22 of 22 Old Sep 3rd, 2013, 9:00 am Thread Starter
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Re: VIN Numbers & Titles for parts

I guess what I should have said is "Trying doing that IN NEW MEXICO without a VIN". I had to return home and find out where the VIN was located, get a flashlight and return to the MVD office.

1970 BSA 441
1979 Yamaha 350 Exciter
1952 Ariel 350 Red Hunter
1946 Ariel 500 Red Hunter
1949 Velocette 350
1950 AJS 500
2001 Harley Softtail
2004 BMW R1150rt
2006 883 Sportster
2007 Vstar 1100

another 2004 RT
1972 Moto Guzzi Eldorado
1969 Moto Guzzi 750
1970 Moto Guzzi 750
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