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post #1 of 12 Old Aug 13th, 2011, 10:52 pm Thread Starter
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Angry last chance

Got my Lt back yesterday from the bike shop after having the fd rebuilt, now looks like the 1100gs fd is on its way out. If this is the case its goodbye to bmw bikes for good, four. fd rebuilds in 40 thousand miles is just too much to bear, so Ithink its back to europe or japan for the next bike. Why dont they admit that the final drives are crap and get them sorted once and for all?
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post #2 of 12 Old Aug 14th, 2011, 3:30 am
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Re: last chance

4 FD's in 40 K sucks! Are you sure they are being rebuilt correctly? There is a lot of speculation on this side of the pond that incorrect pre-load on the crownwheel bearing seems to be responsible for a large percentage of the failures.

It has been speculated that by shimming the crown wheel bearing the correct amount the bearing will not fail. Improper shimming at original build is why some bikes fail at 10 to 20K miles while some can go 100K+ without failure.

Has the shop that has been doing your rebuilds carefully measured the assembly and calculated the proper shim thickness to establish correct pre-load? If not this may very likely be the problem. If it was shimmed too tight from the factory and the same shims are used with a new bearing the failure is just going to re-occur.

Loren

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post #3 of 12 Old Aug 14th, 2011, 6:42 am
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Re: last chance

If the same bloke is doing the rebuilding each time, I suggest you find another mechanic. If done properly the FD will last a long time. MHO

Bill
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post #4 of 12 Old Aug 14th, 2011, 9:41 am
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Re: last chance

Quote:
Originally Posted by wa1200lt
4 FD's in 40 K sucks! Are you sure they are being rebuilt correctly? There is a lot of speculation on this side of the pond that incorrect pre-load on the crownwheel bearing seems to be responsible for a large percentage of the failures.

It has been speculated that by shimming the crown wheel bearing the correct amount the bearing will not fail. Improper shimming at original build is why some bikes fail at 10 to 20K miles while some can go 100K+ without failure.

Has the shop that has been doing your rebuilds carefully measured the assembly and calculated the proper shim thickness to establish correct pre-load? If not this may very likely be the problem. If it was shimmed too tight from the factory and the same shims are used with a new bearing the failure is just going to re-occur.

Loren
Interesting hypothesis. I have not been following the FD failure issues closely since selling my GS back in 2009. Your post infers there is only an issue in the US and attributable to improper shimming.

I am not an expert on this BMW situation by any means, but I am an experienced engineer in the auto industry and I know production and maintenance all too well. From what I know, I don't think the pre-loads are set any different for the US as any other part of the world since the parts are installed in the same factory by the same build techs. With that, is there really a country by country breakdown of the FD failure data that shows the US has higher incidents? The US is BMW's third largest market which means there are 2 others that are larger. What is the FD failure rate in those markets?

regards,
Dan

2006 K1200GT - the Jagdpanther has arrived as of 5-Aug-2011
1999 Harley-Davidson Ultra Classic

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Last edited by dceggert; Aug 14th, 2011 at 10:03 am.
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post #5 of 12 Old Aug 14th, 2011, 10:00 am
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Re: last chance

Sorry to hear of your troubles.

Four failures on four different bikes, or what? Please specify.

It only took one failure for me to sell my GT and buy a Concours14. Haven't regretted my decision for a single second. However, I am hoping the new K1600 proves to have this issue resolved. I'd like to replace my C14 with a K1600 in a year or two ... time will tell.

- Joe
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post #6 of 12 Old Aug 14th, 2011, 11:39 am
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Re: last chance

Quote:
Originally Posted by dceggert
Interesting hypothesis. I have not been following the FD failure issues closely since selling my GS back in 2009. Your post infers there is only an issue in the US and attributable to improper shimming.

I am not an expert on this BMW situation by any means, but I am an experienced engineer in the auto industry and I know production and maintenance all too well. From what I know, I don't think the pre-loads are set any different for the US as any other part of the world since the parts are installed in the same factory by the same build techs. With that, is there really a country by country breakdown of the FD failure data that shows the US has higher incidents? The US is BMW's third largest market which means there are 2 others that are larger. What is the FD failure rate in those markets?

I think Loren is saying exactly what I believe, and what I know happened to my bike. The FD comes from the factory with excess pre-load. It fails, and a BMW mech or tech will simply replace the failed bearing and reinstall the factory shims without measuring. The rebuilt FD is destined to fail. I agree that I'd be looking at whomever is doing the rebuilding and asking some pointed questions.
But then again, I could be completely full of it
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post #7 of 12 Old Aug 14th, 2011, 12:10 pm
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Re: last chance

Quote:
Originally Posted by fpmlt
But then again, I could be completely full of it
Nope, you've gotten it exactly right. This is a known problem with a known solution, but some guys still just swap bearings and call it good. But a properly built or rebuilt final drive will easily last the lifetime of the bike.

Ken
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post #8 of 12 Old Aug 14th, 2011, 12:17 pm
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Re: last chance

Quote:
Originally Posted by dceggert
Your post infers there is only an issue in the US and attributable to improper shimming.
I don't think Loren is trying to say this is just a US thing.

We do tend to overload our bikes, and to ride longer distances and more miles, thus exacerbating the problem. That just means that we've seen more failures, and thus been able to diagnose things more thoroughly.

The excessive pre-load has been found on final drives all over the world. But a couple of guys here in the States have taken the time to dig into this problem, and to come up with a proper solution. It's not difficult, it just takes a bit of care when rebuilding these drives to bring them back up to where they need to be. Or rather, where they should have been when they left BMW . . .

Ken
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'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#143, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032


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post #9 of 12 Old Aug 14th, 2011, 7:51 pm Thread Starter
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Angry Re: last chance

My Lt has just had its first diff rebuild, the guy who did it is a very experienced bmw trained mechanic ( worked on police bikes). and checked to make sure it is shimmed correctly. the other failures are on my 1100gs, I bought it with 26000 miles on it, the diff failed at 30000 ish miles , this was done under warranty, it failed 2500 miles later and the bmw dealers repaired it again ( after a big argument with bmw) and the guy who did the repair said the previous repair had not been done properly and somehow one of the shims was kinked and that caused the failure its now coming up to 50000 miles and starting to growl again in corners. Both bikes are brilliant but I just cant trust them anymore.
Cheers Dave
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post #10 of 12 Old Aug 14th, 2011, 8:09 pm
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Wink Re: last chance

Dave, you don't happen to have Metzler ME-880's on the bike that is "Growling" in the corners do you? Because those tires are infamous for just that. Maybe it is not the FD?

Just hoping here buddy.

John
Quote:
Originally Posted by hovis
My Lt has just had its first diff rebuild, the guy who did it is a very experienced bmw trained mechanic ( worked on police bikes). and checked to make sure it is shimmed correctly. the other failures are on my 1100gs, I bought it with 26000 miles on it, the diff failed at 30000 ish miles , this was done under warranty, it failed 2500 miles later and the bmw dealers repaired it again ( after a big argument with bmw) and the guy who did the repair said the previous repair had not been done properly and somehow one of the shims was kinked and that caused the failure its now coming up to 50000 miles and starting to growl again in corners. Both bikes are brilliant but I just cant trust them anymore.
Cheers Dave

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post #11 of 12 Old Aug 14th, 2011, 11:08 pm Thread Starter
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Re: last chance

The growling is on the 1100gs running on almost new tourances, and getting the telltale vibes througk the footrests
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post #12 of 12 Old Aug 14th, 2011, 11:19 pm
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Red face Re: last chance

Oh. Sorry to say that you may be on the right track after all.

John
Quote:
Originally Posted by hovis
The growling is on the 1100gs running on almost new tourances, and getting the telltale vibes througk the footrests

John & Marilyn Fisher
'00 K1200LTC "Katie"
'95 Triumph "Tigger"
'12 Triumph 800XC "Tigger II" (RIP)
'12 Triumph 1200 Explorer "Shadow Tigger"
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