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post #1 of 27 Old Apr 24th, 2011, 9:56 pm Thread Starter
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Dumped the bike with a new back tire

I just hopped on the bike with a new tire on the back. As soon as I started to do a bit of a cut, the back end just slid out. Minor damage to the bike. The status of my shoulder is unknown. Very sore and hard to move.

Did I do something silly? I took the sticker off the tire before hitting the road. Do I need to rough it up or something?

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post #2 of 27 Old Apr 24th, 2011, 10:47 pm
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Re: Dumped the bike with a new back tire

Common problem. A new tire needs to be 'scrubbed in'. Prior to ruffing up the tire the slick surface, mold release compound, and mounting soap can result in poor traction.
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post #3 of 27 Old Apr 24th, 2011, 10:52 pm
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Re: Dumped the bike with a new back tire

You need to run 50 miles plus to rough up the tire - all the time taking it EASY. Better to
run on concrete than smooth asphalt. Many others here have reported the same drops -
this problem is just not for the LT but for all motorcycles. New tires are SLICK and
require a rough up and several heat up periods!!

It would be easier to ride than trying to rough up the tire by other means.

BTW was it a Metzler tire . . . they are stiff and have a little less traction than the
Bridgestone.

Dan Finazzo
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post #4 of 27 Old Apr 24th, 2011, 11:09 pm
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Re: Dumped the bike with a new back tire

Glad to hear you were not hurt worse...and I hope you recover from what you have soon...alot of riding to do up ahead! +1 on the scrub in...

Wade
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post #5 of 27 Old Apr 24th, 2011, 11:32 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Dumped the bike with a new back tire

Thanks for the feedback. I thought I had read about this before, but I'm not so nimble with typing right now. I did try and gas it into a turn. While I was not being reckless, I was not taking it easy. I won't forget that lesson. Luckily, I was close to home and could ride the bike into the garage (albeit with half a brake lever and a sore shoulder).

I suspect my shoulder is just bruised, but with a lump on top, I wonder if I didn't break the clavicle. It hurts to try and lift it under its own power, but I can pull it up with the other hand and it's okay, if I go slow. Maybe I'll get an xray tomorrow. I'll get up for work in the morning and see how it feels. Somehow, I don't think it'll be better.

But all things considered, I was pretty lucky.

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post #6 of 27 Old Apr 24th, 2011, 11:56 pm
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Re: Dumped the bike with a new back tire

Yeah get it checked out. Pain is our computer telling us something is wrong. Hope everything is OK though . . .
ride safe
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post #7 of 27 Old Apr 25th, 2011, 1:22 am
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Re: Dumped the bike with a new back tire

If you have a lump on the clavical bone, then you probably did break your clavical. It is a common break when slamming the shoulder into a hard surface/object.

I hope you didn't break it, but if you did, there isn't much that can be done for it. I know athletes have surgery and have screws put it to stabilize, but the common practice is to immobalize the arm as much as possible while the callus is developing to rejoin the broken bones. The body is pretty neat it this type of break. Except for the pain you will experience when you move your shoulder and arm, the break will heal regardless.

My wife broke her collar bone/clavical while walking our dogs. They pulled her off her feet and she slammed into the sidewalk.. She didn't realize she had injured herself (other than skinned knee, elbow and shoulder) until she tried to close the front door with her right arm. That is when the pain hit. I cleaned her up. Wrapped her arm down to her side using 6 inch Ace bandages and brought her to the emergency room at the hospital. Told them what happened and that I she had mostly likely broke her collar bone in the fall. (She had a lump also) They X-Rayed the shoulder and the doc came out and asked me where I had gotten my training from. I asked why and replied survivial training and also dealing with my own self inflicted injuries from sports, motorcycle riding and other stuff? He said that it was the best wrap job to immobilize a shoulder break that he had ever seen and that yes she had broken her collar bone. Told her to stay in my wrap until the morning and then to wear her arm in a sling after that. And gave her a script for pain.

There is a wrap around brace you can get, but it is so uncomfortable that most people stop using it after a day or two.

It will take about 6-8 weeks for it to heal. The X-Rays of it broken and then healed are neat to compare.

Hope it isn't broken, but if it is, that bone is easiest one to heal and not affect anything else.

Good luck.

regards

Karl
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post #8 of 27 Old Apr 25th, 2011, 9:12 am
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Re: Dumped the bike with a new back tire

Heal quickly!

When you do, take some 200-grit sandpaper and go over the entire road-surface of the new tire until all of the "gloss" is gone, will accomplish the same thing as "50 miles of careful riding" and you won't have to be nervous. Will take about 15 minutes if you're diligent, but worth it when you have new rubber.

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post #9 of 27 Old Apr 25th, 2011, 9:21 am
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Re: Dumped the bike with a new back tire

Bob, sounds like you're going to heal up, so that is good. I scrub my new tires in at the high school parking lot down the street. Lots of low speed tight figure eights for several minutes.

Brian
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post #10 of 27 Old Apr 25th, 2011, 9:25 am
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Re: Dumped the bike with a new back tire

Bob, Sorry that you got hurt ... but you've been riding too long to make this kind of rookie mistake. The first thing I do when I get a new tire is find some gravel to ride on for a minute. Otherwise, 50 to 100 miles of "easy does it" riding.

I have a photo a 50-foot burnout that I did on my LT with a brand new rear tire. The bike almost got away from me too. Pretty scary for a few seconds ... made for one heck of a ride!

- Joe
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post #11 of 27 Old Apr 25th, 2011, 4:39 pm
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Re: Dumped the bike with a new back tire

Quote:
Originally Posted by hallzee
Bob, sounds like you're going to heal up, so that is good. I scrub my new tires in at the high school parking lot down the street. Lots of low speed tight figure eights for several minutes.


And you haven't ended up on your side doing that? That's the exact opposite of what I'd do until the tires are scuffed in.

Another warning/reminder...

I have a condor motorcycle wheel stop/chock that I mounted on the garage floor (you ride the tire in, it rolls up, holds the bike upright). Did that with a brand-new front tire and an hour later heard a crashing sound from the garage, the LT had tipped over (supposed to be virtually impossible in the Condor). The release coating on the tire caused the bike to slip in the wheel chock, slowly, until it tipped over.

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post #12 of 27 Old Apr 25th, 2011, 8:38 pm
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Re: Dumped the bike with a new back tire

Sorry to hear this, Bob, but I hope you heal quickly.

So, I have a chance to learn something here. I've read several times about the slick-new-tire syndrome, and I do take it easy on a new tire, but I have this question: If you don't ride it through gravel or if you don't use sandpaper to manually rough it up, what does just plain-old riding do to make the tire less slick / safer?

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post #13 of 27 Old Apr 25th, 2011, 10:27 pm
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Re: Dumped the bike with a new back tire

Quote:
Originally Posted by hallzee
Bob, sounds like you're going to heal up, so that is good. I scrub my new tires in at the high school parking lot down the street. Lots of low speed tight figure eights for several minutes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by petevandyke
And you haven't ended up on your side doing that? That's the exact opposite of what I'd do until the tires are scuffed in.
Pete, read it it again... "Low speed". Been doing it that way for a few hundred thousand miles of tires...

Brian
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post #14 of 27 Old Apr 26th, 2011, 9:38 am
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Re: Dumped the bike with a new back tire

Quote:
Originally Posted by hallzee
Quote:
Originally Posted by hallzee
Bob, sounds like you're going to heal up, so that is good. I scrub my new tires in at the high school parking lot down the street. Lots of low speed tight figure eights for several minutes.


Pete, read it it again... "Low speed". Been doing it that way for a few hundred thousand miles of tires...

I did read it again, multiple times.

If you have a tire that is still "slick" (i.e. hasn't been scuffed up) and you start in with heavy lean-angles, you're pushing your luck--slow or fast speed.

(In answer to Howard's question above) when you "gently ride 50 miles" you gradually scuff more and more of the outer shoulders each time you turn until the entire surface, theoretically, is scuffed. If you go to a parking lot and start full-lock slow-speed police-rodeo/MSF-type cone exercises, you're jumping right onto the slick shoulders of the tire sidewalls and you're putting a sliding force on those slick sidewalls because you're leaned over. (The weight of the bike vs. the contact patch isn't vertical, it's offsetby 12-18") Which is why I'm amazed that you've not been injured.

I ran a police motorcycle training program for Harley for six years, with 18 police Road Kings. We scuffed every new tire we put on, because when we didn't, frequently, they slid out from under the bike in slow-cone exercises (don't even ASK about high-speed braking exercises).

If it works for you, more power to you, but spending a few minutes with $.50 worth of sandpaper is a hell of a lot safer--then go to the parking lot and drag your footpegs like you've been doing!

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post #15 of 27 Old Apr 26th, 2011, 11:20 am
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Re: Dumped the bike with a new back tire

First and foremost, I hope that Bob's injuries are minor and he has a quick and full recovery.

New tires always make me nervous, despite over 30 years of near daily riding.

I read the comments above, and like some others, worry that figure 8s are not a good idea. Certainly they will scrub more of the tire width quickly, as long as you don't fall down. It seems like the perfect recipe to fall down, exactly what the dealers and tire manufacturers want you to avoid. I read Hallzee's comments, but the idea still makes me queasy.

What I do is ride verrry carefully, keeping the bike as upright as possible. When I turn at intersections, I keep the bike as upright as I can and take them very slowly at first. As I put on the miles, I gradually add a little more lean to the bike to extend the scrubbed sections. I normally take the bike out and ride a bunch of straight miles (say, down the freeway) with gradually increasing leans as I go. A freeway will give you some decent straight miles quickly. Once a few miles are on the tires, I carefully "wobble" the bike to extend the scrubbing outward on the tires. The process works for me, knock on wood.
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post #16 of 27 Old Apr 26th, 2011, 1:34 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Dumped the bike with a new back tire

Thank you for all the well wishes. I got it x-rayed, and there are no broken bones. I have a "class 2"(?) separation. This means I tore a tendon that ties the clavicle to that bone with the socket. That allows the clavicle to ride up, which is why I have a bump. Not much to about it other than ice it and keep the pressure off of it. A brace was suggested, but I think I'm just going to keep the weight off of it. I spend a lot of time at a computer, so it's easy to put a pillow under it and still type. It's getting better already. There's some numbness in my fingers which is annoying, but it could've been much worse.

As for the rooking riding mistake Joe, what can I say. I've done so many dumb things in life you'd think I'd have run through them all, but I find new ones. The GT is the best performance bike I've owned, so this problem is exacerbated by this damn, powerful bike.

My excitement got the better of me. The bike has been in the garage for months. When I started it up and it was running smooth, the thought of riding it back north (I'm commuting between orange county and the bay area) got me excited. If I'd have thought a bit, I might have remembered I had read of this issue on this forum before, but emotion is a good cure for thinking. And, my wife was watching as I rode away. I wanted to "show off" a little, so instead of just leisurely drifting to the right side of the road, I tried to lean into the turn a bit. So, it's really my wife's fault. That woman causes me no end of trouble.

Maybe I'll be in riding shape in a month. Total healing will take a few months, but I'm hoping I can ride sooner. Bowling may take longer. When I am able to ride again, I'll be a little bit wiser, and my bike looks like it has some "experience".

BTW, any good methods for buffing the plastic to take the scratches out? It doesn't need to look new, but it should at least look dark gray, instead of the streaks of white now in my fairing.

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Bob
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post #17 of 27 Old Apr 26th, 2011, 4:05 pm
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Re: Dumped the bike with a new back tire

I guess I am lucky to be alive... Different strokes as they say, but I feel that slowly riding on an empty five acre patch of asphalt is a great way to scrub off the tires. I've never had traction break loose, let alone come close to falling.

Brian
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post #18 of 27 Old Apr 26th, 2011, 5:00 pm
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Re: Dumped the bike with a new back tire

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobnoxous
Thank you for all the well wishes. I got it x-rayed, and there are no broken bones. I have a "class 2"(?) separation. This means I tore a tendon that ties the clavicle to that bone with the socket. That allows the clavicle to ride up, which is why I have a bump. Not much to about it other than ice it and keep the pressure off of it. A brace was suggested, but I think I'm just going to keep the weight off of it. I spend a lot of time at a computer, so it's easy to put a pillow under it and still type. It's getting better already. There's some numbness in my fingers which is annoying, but it could've been much worse.
My oldest son got that from a skateboarding accident. He wore a figure 8 brake for 6 weeks and it really helped the healing process. That and keep plenty of Advil around for the next couple of months.
50 miles of take it easy or 10 miles of gravel/hard dirt. BTW I hate riding the LT in gravel or dirt, That's what a GS is for.

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post #19 of 27 Old Apr 26th, 2011, 5:22 pm
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Re: Dumped the bike with a new back tire

OK... here we go...

Mold release = myth - at least right now for a majority of tire makers...

Most tire factories have molds surfaces that are made of chrome or polished stainless. Tires come out of those molds because that's the way the molds are designed. So forget about that mold release B$...

Most factories have one main thing in mind when they make a tire. The damn thing has to sell. Well, us folks who buy tires cannot stand a tire that does not have a bright shiny look. So some factories put a type of emollient on the tire. It serves two purposes... It makes it bright and shiny (and therefore attractive to the person buying the tire) and it protects the new tire from the elements (whatever those are). Call it a soap, call it a non-petroleum protectant. Almost all factories do this...

Now, you want a trackside answer? Wipe the tire down with alcohol, mount that dog and run it like you stole it. Once you get that thing on the street and over on it's side, the porosity of the rubber (i.e. silica blend) opens up and the nice smooth portion of the tire goes away.

Last year I did a full set of Avon's (yes Nancy, they are rated for late model LT's)... First 10 miles in some great twisties and I was no longer able to see the chicken strips. I just put a full set of Bridgy's on... Peg to peg for the first 25 miles... but then again... that was me...

Back to the myth... Don't believe me?

How about Pirelli?

"Pirelli does not use mold release. Tires are shiny because the general buying public demands that visually a tire look cool, smooth, shiny, and new when they shop for tires in the rack at the dealer. We rely on the smoothness of the mold to get this appearance and to help the tire let go from the mold during production."

OK... don't like the folks who own the Metzler brand? How about Dunlop...

"Thank you for taking the time to contact us with your Dunlop motorcycle
tire questions. Dunlop Motorcycle Tire does NOT use a "mold releasing
agent" during the production of our tires."


So here it is...

I am so glad Bob was not seriously injured. This kind of thing can happen and does quite often when you hear the words "Hey, watch this...". Bob obviously never said that, but his anxiousness to get on the road after being weather bound could have been a contributing factor. I just thank the lord he's safe and able to get back in the saddle when he's ready. He is one guy I have on my bucket list to shake the hand of if and when I get a chance. Just get well my friend... Healing takes a while, but the roads are patient.

So each person has to take something away from this discussion... I take the following:

Everyone has to do what they have to do and they do those things relative to their safety and the safety of others. I'd much rather see someone scrubbing a tire in a parking lot or on a track than scraping their hide off out on the street as they try and scuff in a tire.

About that "be gentle for the first X amount of miles" statement... Yeah, OK, to a point. You no doubt have heard the expression that "most accidents happens within the first 5 miles of home"? I want my tires ready to be at their best when I am out on the street. When you need to get on it, swerve around it or brake before you hit it, tippy-toeing is not my idea of being 100% ready for travel on a motorcycle.

enuf of this crapola... I'm going ridin'...

just sayin'...

Uncle Mark

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post #20 of 27 Old Apr 26th, 2011, 7:53 pm
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Re: Dumped the bike with a new back tire

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobnoxous
BTW, any good methods for buffing the plastic to take the scratches out? It doesn't need to look new, but it should at least look dark gray, instead of the streaks of white now in my fairing.
Good to hear that you were not injured worse. Thanks for reminding us to watch out for new tires.

This is my favorite for removing scratches. Made in Germany. Hopefully the scratches have only damaged the clear coat.

http://www.amazon.com/Quixx-00070-US...3865399&sr=8-1

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post #21 of 27 Old Apr 27th, 2011, 10:02 am Thread Starter
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Re: Dumped the bike with a new back tire

Thanks Sunderland. I'll get that on order.

When a government takes over a people’s economic life it becomes absolute, and when it has become absolute it destroys the arts, the minds, the liberties and the meaning of the people it governs.
- Maxwell Anderson

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post #22 of 27 Old Apr 27th, 2011, 10:10 am Thread Starter
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Re: Dumped the bike with a new back tire

Uncle Mark, what does rubbing the tire with alcohol do? Does it remove the "shiny stuff"? Is it your contention the tire is "road ready" with this procedure?

There was a little "watch this" with the wife watching. Also, there was a visible sprinkling of sand on the roadway to the left of where I started the turn. There may have been some where I did start the turn that wasn't so visible. I'm back up north, so I cannot check the road where it happened, and I really don't care. It was a combination of factors, and I'll be more careful to not let the same combination happen again.

When a government takes over a people’s economic life it becomes absolute, and when it has become absolute it destroys the arts, the minds, the liberties and the meaning of the people it governs.
- Maxwell Anderson

Bob
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post #23 of 27 Old Apr 28th, 2011, 9:36 am
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Re: Dumped the bike with a new back tire

Glad to see Bob's injuries are not more severe.

Low speed figure 8s are a fine way to scrub in new tires.
At low speed, the tires are leaned over, but the lateral forces are low so the friction the tires can provide is not overcome.

But run in your tires however you want to. It's your bike, your tires, your decision.
Stay safe.

Dave
-2000 K1200LT
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post #24 of 27 Old Apr 28th, 2011, 11:13 am
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Re: Dumped the bike with a new back tire

Dave just nailed part of my response... Thank-you sir...

The alcohol removes any type of protectant / soap / additive / emollient... whatever you want to call it. Once that garbage is removed, the next step is to un-shine that shoe. Slow 8's are one method, cutting twisties is another... Just driving down the super slab won't completely scuff the usable radius (i.e. treaded side walls) of the tire. I love this statement that some make: "I put 150 miles on a tire to scuff it..." And 90% of that "scuffing" was on an open highway.

So if you define "road ready" as take those bad boys out and try and drag your knees, then no... It's a gradual thing and it's based on your experience. There's a curvy road above my place that is rarely used by cars. It's new black top and it's about 8 miles long. I can scuff a set in one up and back pass. That's one method I use to un-shine my tires.

IMHO, a set of tires had better be up to the job before you start risking your neck out in traffic where people are half asleep, talking on the cell phone, not looking or paying full attention, or fretting about the fight they had with the SO last night. Scuffing a set while dancing with that kind of motorized opposition could be a mistake.

Hallzee uses a parking lot at slow speed to scuff those dogs... great option.

Pete uses sand paper... another good option.

Some racers have been known to use steel wool... also a good option.

I also use a parking lot... but only to practice riding skills.

that make sense???

just sayin'...

Uncle Mark

BMW '06' 1200LT "Wild Blue"
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post #25 of 27 Old Apr 28th, 2011, 4:14 pm
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Re: Dumped the bike with a new back tire

"Mold release" or shine enhancer or just that the rubber looks and FEELS slick...I know that a tire before "scrubbin' it in" or doing the sandpaper deal, or riding it gently for a while, is a HELL of a lot slicker than one that has gone through the process.

I care about everyone on this forum, so I would recommend, based on personal experience (and that damn phantom garage tip-over in the Condor chock) that you spend a few minutes with some 200-grit on a new tire before riding.

But as I always add to these kinds of posts "If what you're doing works for you, and you're happy with it, good luck to you!"

Stay safe everyone

========================================
When life throws you a curve, LEAN INTO IT!!!
2000 R1100RT-P...R.I.P. "Old motorcycle"
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2004 K1200LT "Lick and Tickle"
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post #26 of 27 Old Aug 10th, 2013, 10:33 pm
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Re: Dumped the bike with a new back tire

I found a new way* to make a tire slippery, RuGlyde left on the tire. I put the lube on with a brush when I spooned on a new set of PR3s. Lube everywhere.

The garage was nice and cold so when I opened the door to the summer heat everything got condensation on it, including the now dried lube, and the just mounted tire.

Just glad I ran my hand over that rear tire before riding out. Washed the tire with citrus cleaner and rinsed it off well.

*new to me, I had just used that lube for the first time.
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post #27 of 27 Old Aug 12th, 2013, 4:31 pm
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Re: Dumped the bike with a new back tire

This is likely another thing that BMW ASC (auto slip control) could address, at least breaking loose via throttle.

I may ever encounter it activating, but I've retrofitted it to two R1200RTs now.

It is fabulous on cars, too.

Getting electronic control associated with brakes--ABS first--has opened up great possibilities.

Not a substitute for scuffing in, of course, just some extra protection.

Kent Christensen
Albuquerque
'12 R1200RT, '02 R1100S, '84 R80G/S
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