New development in police texting while driving case - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 20 Old Dec 14th, 2010, 7:15 am Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Austin, TX, USA
Posts: 616
New development in police texting while driving case

This is the case where the officer, while working on his computer, ran a stop sign and seriously injured a motorcyclist. A new lawsuit has been filed.

http://www.statesman.com/news/local/...s-1118793.html

Note: if you haven't seen the video from the patrol car's camera, suffer through the advertisement and watch it...it is absolutely chilling.

Last edited by JimE; Dec 14th, 2010 at 12:10 pm.
JimE is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 20 Old Dec 14th, 2010, 7:59 am
Senior Member
 
cfell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Round Rock, TX, USA
Posts: 7,794
Re: New development in police texting while driving case

Many lives changed in a moment.

The goal of total productivity jammed into every waking moment seems to have been reached. We can now get our job done while ruining lives of others.

I hope the motorcyclist wins the suit. Reality though, knowing Austin and the legal maneuvering they use, perhaps the guy's family will receive a pittance....

...............
J.M.J...
Dcn Channing

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
cfell is offline  
post #3 of 20 Old Dec 14th, 2010, 9:58 am
Senior Member
 
CohesiveTechnology's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Keene, NH, USA
Posts: 280
Re: New development in police texting while driving case

This is an unfortunate situation that screams the message that today's technology is a distraction.

I am starting a company for this reason more than any other. I want to provide products that prevent this kind of thing.

A distracted driver is extremely dangerous.

David Falkenstein

Cohesive Technology - seamless is everything

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

P: (603) 283-7624
CohesiveTechnology is offline  
 
post #4 of 20 Old Dec 14th, 2010, 12:36 pm Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Austin, TX, USA
Posts: 616
Re: New development in police texting while driving case

David,

Quote:
I am starting a company
Given your role as a product developer and an entrepreneur, I am curious as to your reaction to the product liability implications of the lawsuit. Note that they named the makers of the computer as a defendant.

Obviously most cell phones now have enough smarts to be able to have a "feature" to lock out some functionality if they're moving above a certain speed; similar to the lock out on some GPS and Bluetooth-based products that will not let you do things like pair devices while moving. Most laptops do not currently have the location information, but they could certainly add it.

Here's an article I ran across that discusses the potential of product liability issues in cases such as these:
http://www.michaelbest.com/pubs/pubD...etail&pub=2413

It will be interesting to see how this all evolves, but given the litigious nature of our society, I think I know what will happen.
JimE is offline  
post #5 of 20 Old Dec 15th, 2010, 11:32 am
THE Democracy Doctor
 
jayjacobson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: We LOVE illegals and Socialists, Sunny, Southern Kommyfornia,
Posts: 5,694
Re: New development in police texting while driving case

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimE
This is the case where the officer, while working on his computer, ran a stop sign and seriously injured a motorcyclist. A new lawsuit has been filed.

http://www.statesman.com/news/local/...s-1118793.html

Note: if you haven't seen the video from the patrol car's camera, suffer through the advertisement and watch it...it is absolutely chilling.
WOW! AND the ocifer had MORE than 10 years on! I would have sworn that this was a classic "green" mistake (5 years or LESS)

With guys like this, we'll all be pulling over to do the slightest thing on the MDT!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jayjacobson is offline  
post #6 of 20 Old Dec 15th, 2010, 3:27 pm
Senior Member
 
CohesiveTechnology's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Keene, NH, USA
Posts: 280
Re: New development in police texting while driving case

Technology is very cool. Technology will save your life and keep you informed. Technology poorly developed will kill you.

The problem is that most developers don't know how to write code for the unique human factors of vehicular use. This one fact alone will make what I am doing successful.

Human Factors - the study of how people would, could, should use technology - is an infancy discipline in engineering. Years ago I was a flight check-out officer in Palmdale CA. The most important thing about my job was understanding if what I see inform or interrupt the crew.

I honestly am getting into a business that addresses this very thing. I want to create technology appropriate to our use.

David Falkenstein

Cohesive Technology - seamless is everything

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

P: (603) 283-7624
CohesiveTechnology is offline  
post #7 of 20 Old Dec 15th, 2010, 4:12 pm
Cat Herder
 
andy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Posts: 5,852
Re: New development in police texting while driving case

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayjacobson
With guys like this, we'll all be pulling over to do the slightest thing on the MDT!
And if texting is dangerous, and Joe Blow can't handle it you should, because there is no reason why ossifer Joe Blow should be able to.
andy is offline  
post #8 of 20 Old Dec 15th, 2010, 4:32 pm
Senior Member
 
robasay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Gilbert, AZ, USA
Posts: 445
Re: New development in police texting while driving case

This is not something new. 20 yrs ago when I was working the street this was stressed to patrol officers all of the time and usually calls for service are sent via the MDT and the officer had to read the message and drive and give a response to acknowleging the message. Now also think about this. Some times an officer can have a drink between his legs, berger in the hand driving looking for the bad guy and reading the MDT and possibly talking on the radio. Sometimes things happen, is it OK, no, but that is sometimes the nature of the job. Now I hear the Government, again wanting to get into our lives even more, want to have cell phone makers disable the phone while someone is driving in the car. So what happens if your wife or kids are being chased by someone in the car and they cannot call 911 as the phone has been disabled. Or if you are following a person in a car trying to talk to the police and give information on the subject. If they disable the phone none of that works. We have other laws on the books that cover stupidity and irresponsiblility. So how do you regulate that woman in the car trying to put on makeup and drive or someone shaving or, talking to someone in the car or lighting a cigarette? When does the regulation stop?

Rob Asay
99 Canyon Red Lt
"The True Red Dragon"
1982 Honda "Silver Wing"
1986 Gold Wing Interstate "Blue Babe"
1978 Gold Wing
1976 Kawasaki 900
1967 Honda 305 Scrambler
robasay is offline  
post #9 of 20 Old Dec 15th, 2010, 4:46 pm
Senior Member
 
bowlesj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Glen Alpine, NC, USA
Posts: 1,431
Re: New development in police texting while driving case

FWIW - the rider certainly failed to apply defensive skills when entering that intersection. The cop was driving very slowly.


On another note. I do not believe there is a technology that can be made that isn't a distraction to vehicle operation.

Don't get me wrong, I use the technologies, including adjusting the HVAC, audio, blowing the horn, or whatever, but they are still distractions.


JMTCW

John

2004 - LT - Anthracite
bowlesj is offline  
post #10 of 20 Old Dec 15th, 2010, 6:57 pm
Senior Member
 
mwnahas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Bedford Hts, OH, USA
Posts: 4,217
Re: New development in police texting while driving case

Not sure what I saw there. Did the cop run a stop sign? I didn't see it.

Just Go
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Mike
Cleveland Ohio
2014 K1600 GTL Grey Wolf.
mwnahas is offline  
post #11 of 20 Old Dec 15th, 2010, 8:12 pm
THE Democracy Doctor
 
jayjacobson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: We LOVE illegals and Socialists, Sunny, Southern Kommyfornia,
Posts: 5,694
Re: New development in police texting while driving case

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy
And if texting is dangerous, and Joe Blow can't handle it you should, because there is no reason why ossifer Joe Blow should be able to.
I was NOT talking about "Ocifer Joe Blow," AND I'll let him asses his own skills, thank you! The reason why the vehicle codes allow ocifers to use a MDT while driving is because an ocifer has HUNDREDS of hours of training re vehicle op's--including multi-tasking and high risk/speed driving.

Now, that being said, each ocifer MUST know his own skills and abilities, and continuously asses them. Just as you continuously control your speed during high risk driving based on your own limitations and external factors, such as the amount of traffic, etc, you also control other multi-tasking while driving, such as MDT use.

What we do NOT need more of is the "one size fits all" R and R's.

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jayjacobson is offline  
post #12 of 20 Old Dec 15th, 2010, 8:23 pm
THE Democracy Doctor
 
jayjacobson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: We LOVE illegals and Socialists, Sunny, Southern Kommyfornia,
Posts: 5,694
Re: New development in police texting while driving case

Quote:
Originally Posted by CohesiveTechnology
Technology is very cool. Technology will save your life and keep you informed. Technology poorly developed will kill you.

The problem is that most developers don't know how to write code for the unique human factors of vehicular use. This one fact alone will make what I am doing successful.

Human Factors - the study of how people would, could, should use technology - is an infancy discipline in engineering. Years ago I was a flight check-out officer in Palmdale CA. The most important thing about my job was understanding if what I see inform or interrupt the crew.

I honestly am getting into a business that addresses this very thing. I want to create technology appropriate to our use.
I wonder if technology will ever be able to overcome shear stupidity OR lack of common sense?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwnahas
Not sure what I saw there. Did the cop run a stop sign? I didn't see it.
It appeared, to my eyes, to show an ocifer doing a FAST "Kommyfornia roll" through a stop sign. Mr motorcyclist, coming from the ocifer's left, and probably thinking that the ocifer will STOP, rides through the I/S. The ocifer, HUGELY HUA, T-bones Mr motorcyclist and knocks him off the M/C.

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by jayjacobson; Dec 15th, 2010 at 8:35 pm.
jayjacobson is offline  
post #13 of 20 Old Dec 16th, 2010, 7:39 am
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: New Port Richey, FL, USA
Posts: 615
Re: New development in police texting while driving case

Quote:
Originally Posted by bowlesj
On another note. I do not believe there is a technology that can be made that isn't a distraction to vehicle operation.

Don't get me wrong, I use the technologies, including adjusting the HVAC, audio, blowing the horn, or whatever, but they are still distractions.


JMTCW
When we fly, we are trained and tested on our ability to divide our attention. The average automobile driver doesn't even know of such a concept, and that's the problem.

If you are concentrating on a conversation, you are not concentrating on your driving.

If you are concentrating on your hambuger and the katsup oozing onto your shirt, you are not concentrating on your driving.

I could go on...the point is that the police have extensive driver or EVOC training, and if anyone is capable of dividing their attention, it should be them. However, they are still human and will make errors in judgement.

Thier errors are always highly publicized. But, that comes with the territory when you have the trust of the public to take their freedoms away as necessary.
Scottly is offline  
post #14 of 20 Old Dec 16th, 2010, 11:54 am
Senior Member
 
robasay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Gilbert, AZ, USA
Posts: 445
Re: New development in police texting while driving case

Quote:
Originally Posted by mwnahas
Not sure what I saw there. Did the cop run a stop sign? I didn't see it.
I am with you Michael, I did not see a stop sign as the video was bad. If there was no stop sign and it was an open intersection then the motorcyclist should have yielded to the car on the right. But maybe there was a stop sign that we did not see.

I went back and looked at the video seveal times. The intersection that the officer made a U turn in did have a stop sign on the right hand street. Making the street the officer was driving the main street. However, I could not see a stop sign on the corner of the street in which the mortorcycist was driving. So if the officer did not have a stop sign then the motorcyclist should have yielded to the police car and is at fault.

Again we are trying to make a decision from a video that is incomplete. That is why they have traffic officer to come out and look at the accident scene and complete an accident report.

Rob Asay
99 Canyon Red Lt
"The True Red Dragon"
1982 Honda "Silver Wing"
1986 Gold Wing Interstate "Blue Babe"
1978 Gold Wing
1976 Kawasaki 900
1967 Honda 305 Scrambler

Last edited by robasay; Dec 16th, 2010 at 12:01 pm.
robasay is offline  
post #15 of 20 Old Dec 16th, 2010, 1:13 pm Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Austin, TX, USA
Posts: 616
Re: New development in police texting while driving case

The officer did run a stop sign. It was not obvious on the video but there is a stop sign at that intersection:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=austin...23.19,,0,13.12

There was never any argument about that fact. This is just a civil matter having to do with attribution of liability.

Any of us who has ever operated a motor vehicle for any length of time has pulled a boner at one time or another, no matter how attentive we are. Usually we get lucky and no one gets hurt or even knows about it. Police officers, no matter how highly trained, are going to make mistakes. This is why there's liability insurance.

The thing that fascinates/troubles me about this case is the inclusion of the makers of the dispatching system and the computer hardware, claiming that they should have a lockout mechanism to prevent the use of the system while the vehicle is moving. This may just be a standard legal maneuver, and of course the suit has just been filed so there's no resolution yet. But I believe there are many attorneys out there who are looking for this kind of precedent; the slope is potentially very slippery for cell phone manufacturers, GPS makers, or anything that could potentially be deemed a distraction for drivers.
JimE is offline  
post #16 of 20 Old Dec 16th, 2010, 2:21 pm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: West TN, USA
Posts: 657
Re: New development in police texting while driving case

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimE
.......The thing that fascinates/troubles me about this case is the inclusion of the makers of the dispatching system and the computer hardware, claiming that they should have a lockout mechanism to prevent the use of the system while the vehicle is moving....
I agree totally with your argument. If our society gets any more dependent on "things" to do our thinking for us we're gonna be in worse trouble. I'd rather have a law passed that makes it illegal "to act stupid or careless". Seems that will take care of all this....oh, wait. There are ALREADY such a laws on the books to do this......in this instance, a law against running a stop sign.

Another problem with the idiocy advocated by some, is that "interlocks" and the such always have unintended consequences. Often those are much worse than the alleged problem they were supposed to solve! That's one reason I am opposed to most laws that restrict me from using my reasoning ability when I drive, eat my dinner, go shopping or walk down the street. I don't like machines that "think" for me without the ability to turn them off.

Deek aka adVentureMan
2013 BMW R1200RT

Gone:
2015 Honda Rancher ATV 4x4
2012 Triumph Tiger 800
2009 BMW R1200RT
2006 BMW R1200RT
2007 Royal Star Venture
2007 V-Strom DL1000
2006 VTX 1300R
2005 V* Classic
Deek is offline  
post #17 of 20 Old Dec 16th, 2010, 2:21 pm
THE Democracy Doctor
 
jayjacobson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: We LOVE illegals and Socialists, Sunny, Southern Kommyfornia,
Posts: 5,694
Re: New development in police texting while driving case

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimE
.....The thing that fascinates/troubles me about this case is the inclusion of the makers of the dispatching system and the computer hardware, claiming that they should have a lockout mechanism to prevent the use of the system while the vehicle is moving. This may just be a standard legal maneuver, and of course the suit has just been filed so there's no resolution yet. But I believe there are many attorneys out there who are looking for this kind of precedent; the slope is potentially very slippery for cell phone manufacturers, GPS makers, or anything that could potentially be deemed a distraction for drivers.
Correct, Jim. A "lockout mechanism" would defeat the MAIN purpose of an MDT: to get critical information to ociffers in critical situations.

Ambulance chasers ALWAYS file these type of suits. The hope here is to obtain a judgement against the equipment manufacturer. Then an additional trial or hearing can take place as to a percentage of liability against said manufacturer.

Bottom line: we ALL pay for the frivolous misuse of our legal system. Legal costs are just added to the sales price....

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jayjacobson is offline  
post #18 of 20 Old Dec 16th, 2010, 2:38 pm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Anaheim, CA, USA
Posts: 684
Re: New development in police texting while driving case

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimE
The officer did run a stop sign. It was not obvious on the video but there is a stop sign at that intersection:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=austin...23.19,,0,13.12

There was never any argument about that fact. This is just a civil matter having to do with attribution of liability.

Any of us who has ever operated a motor vehicle for any length of time has pulled a boner at one time or another, no matter how attentive we are. Usually we get lucky and no one gets hurt or even knows about it. Police officers, no matter how highly trained, are going to make mistakes. This is why there's liability insurance.

The thing that fascinates/troubles me about this case is the inclusion of the makers of the dispatching system and the computer hardware, claiming that they should have a lockout mechanism to prevent the use of the system while the vehicle is moving. This may just be a standard legal maneuver, and of course the suit has just been filed so there's no resolution yet. But I believe there are many attorneys out there who are looking for this kind of precedent; the slope is potentially very slippery for cell phone manufacturers, GPS makers, or anything that could potentially be deemed a distraction for drivers.
...and as a result, the navigation system on my wife's Infiniti has a lockout when the car is moving. It prevents the passenger from entering an address into the navigation system or entering a phone number to call while the car is in motion. There is no override screen where the operator can accept that they have read a warning message (such as found on Garmin systems) and no way to bypass it. A few limited features are enabled. For example, you can ask for the nearest restaurants (which takes multiple entry steps), but you are limited to viewing a single screen with five entries only (no scrolling to the next screen). In urban areas, that means you will see five mom 'n' pop hole in the wall restaurants that are completely unfamiliar to you.

I am frustrated with the lack of override, the inconsistency of what you are allowed and not allowed to do, the arbitrary limitations, the screwed up system where the passenger can't use it, etc. In my opinion, this "feature" is all about product liability, and not related to any level of common sense.

I wonder if anyone has patented the idea of an override button on the far side of the passenger seat, where the driver can't reach it? If not, then I am offering it to the public domain. and this note should serve as prior art if someone tries to patent it after today.
XMagnaRider is offline  
post #19 of 20 Old Dec 16th, 2010, 3:01 pm
Senior Member
 
DanDiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Posts: 4,833
Re: New development in police texting while driving case

With everything going on in an officers car while they are driving, this accident does not surprise. My surprise is that it does not happen more often, regardless of the training that they get.

I know this will be objected to, but as a rider, I place some of the blame on the bike! We all know that people run stop signs and on a bike, the responsibility is on us to avoid them. When I'm riding, I tend to assume that people WON'T stop and I'll have to avoid them. I'm alway trying to have a plan B and sometimes have to use it.

See an officer approaching an intersection, or just on the road in general, STAY AWAY! We know that they have distractions and getting too close is asking to get hit. That is REALITY as it is, not as you'd want it to be.

Quite frankly, the officer is to blame, but as riders, we take the brunt of the mistake so do you want to get hit and say I told you so, or do you want to be extra cautions and avoid their mistake?

Dano
Tampa, Fl.

12 K1600 GTL
02 K1200 LT (gone but not forgotten)
DanDiver is offline  
post #20 of 20 Old Dec 16th, 2010, 4:02 pm
THE Democracy Doctor
 
jayjacobson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: We LOVE illegals and Socialists, Sunny, Southern Kommyfornia,
Posts: 5,694
Re: New development in police texting while driving case

Quote:
Originally Posted by XMagnaRider
...and as a result, the navigation system on my wife's Infiniti has a lockout when the car is moving. It prevents the passenger from entering an address into the navigation system or entering a phone number to call while the car is in motion. There is no override screen where the operator can accept that they have read a warning message (such as found on Garmin systems) and no way to bypass it. A few limited features are enabled. For example, you can ask for the nearest restaurants (which takes multiple entry steps), but you are limited to viewing a single screen with five entries only (no scrolling to the next screen). In urban areas, that means you will see five mom 'n' pop hole in the wall restaurants that are completely unfamiliar to you.

I am frustrated with the lack of override, the inconsistency of what you are allowed and not allowed to do, the arbitrary limitations, the screwed up system where the passenger can't use it, etc. In my opinion, this "feature" is all about product liability, and not related to any level of common sense.

I wonder if anyone has patented the idea of an override button on the far side of the passenger seat, where the driver can't reach it? If not, then I am offering it to the public domain. and this note should serve as prior art if someone tries to patent it after today.
I wonder how hard it would be to remove the factory nav and install and aftermarket system? Then widely publicize your fix, of course.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanDiver
With everything going on in an officers car while they are driving, this accident does not surprise. My surprise is that it does not happen more often, regardless of the training that they get.....
Let's not lower the bar any more, please.

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jayjacobson is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the BMW Luxury Touring Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Givi E52 Top Case parts for '07 K1200GT kemmons K1200/1300GT (The Next Generation) 2 May 1st, 2007 5:20 pm
Armed Resistance Lonewuff Chit Chat 34 Apr 25th, 2007 5:28 pm
Police Model Rear Case for 1200RT Lopaca RT Series 10 Dec 24th, 2006 1:39 pm
A real police chief..? cfell Chit Chat 19 Sep 27th, 2006 8:37 pm

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome