US Made Harley's ???? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 26 Old Dec 8th, 2010, 9:27 pm Thread Starter
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Thumbs down US Made Harley's ????

Does anyone know what % of a Harley is manufactured outside the US? I must admit I sometimes (not often) feel guilty about driving/riding non-US manufactured vehicles. My current 05 LT, an 07 X3 and my wifeís new love, her Z4. It is the one Harley vs. BMW debate I donít have a good answer for. If I was to purchase a new ride I most likely would get a new GT/L 1600. I canít help but feel a little guilty considering the miserable unemployment rates right now. Of course in addition the being US built, I want to buy US products but sometimes itís tough to do. Of course, Harleys come with the advantage of not having to wear protective gear and full face helmets Ė just a tee shirt, jeans, and something resembling a boots. Guy - help me feel better about my decisions.

Doug Sorchilla
La Quinta, CA
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post #2 of 26 Old Dec 8th, 2010, 9:51 pm
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Re: US Made Harley's ????

How about USA made BMW?
check it out. if the link works
http://www.bmwusfactory.com/manufact...y/bmw-history/

In Solon Ohio one of Swagelok's manufacturing customers is BMW Germany. So you're helping Ohio too. This is a global economy.

Just Go
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post #3 of 26 Old Dec 8th, 2010, 10:10 pm
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Re: US Made Harley's ????

Well, it's like most car parts made in other countries...

It's all about the yen/pound/dollar.

Ride what gives you the best bang for your money.

The only "advantage" to "buying American," IMHO is that some Americans can feed their families... for now... usually.

Years ago it was rumored that HD management looked in their parking lot and realized many of their workers were NOT driving or riding "US" vehicles.. They made it an issue and within short order, the trend changed. I don't know what it is today.

I wonder how many of us really know who runs the corporation ... or any corporation...

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post #4 of 26 Old Dec 8th, 2010, 10:36 pm
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Re: US Made Harley's ????

H-D will be opening an assembly plant (of U.S.-built components) in India in early 2011. And with that, one could imagine a scenario when it is their only assembly plant. A "business decision", you know...

And if that happened, what would all those H-D owners say about "buying American"?

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post #5 of 26 Old Dec 9th, 2010, 12:25 am
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Re: US Made Harley's ????

Well boys! Looks like curry's on the menu! Budschwiller, curry and nan at the old clubhouse. Who woulda thought?

Loren

Quote:
Originally Posted by hschisler
H-D will be opening an assembly plant (of U.S.-built components) in India in early 2011. And with that, one could imagine a scenario when it is their only assembly plant. A "business decision", you know...

And if that happened, what would all those H-D owners say about "buying American"?

WAK1200LT
Loren

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post #6 of 26 Old Dec 9th, 2010, 1:55 am
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Re: US Made Harley's ????

Mercedes Benz manufactures cars a variety of cars and trucks in India, Hero Honda is the world's largest manufacturer of motorcycles in India too.

A bike like Harley Davidson shouldn't be too difficult to manufacture here, besides if well priced and marketed they will have large sales as the domestic market itself is huge with a population of 1.2b plus with an extremely rich top 20% bracket.

I guess spice and curry help increase business and employment

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post #7 of 26 Old Dec 9th, 2010, 9:18 am
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Re: US Made Harley's ????

HD like any other business buys their parts from the lowest bidder,

I understand about "buy American"
but why should you or I feel obligated to support incompetence and an inferior product?
If HD's were 100% American "their" argument would have some merit, but they're not.

Goldwings and ST1100 were assembled in Mary'sville Ohio,
Nissan built a huge plant in Mississippi yet those brands are considered "Jap"

I have no Idea what percentage of an HD Is US made verses US assembled,
I do know that when you are at the sales counter of an HD dealership
90+ % of their replacement parts are Taiwan made.


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post #8 of 26 Old Dec 9th, 2010, 11:31 am
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Re: US Made Harley's ????

It seems that BMW had better luck building in Amerika than Mercedes did.

Perhaps H-D should still consider eliminating their dealer network altogether and just sell at China-Mart?

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #9 of 26 Old Dec 9th, 2010, 8:17 pm
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Re: US Made Harley's ????

Quote:
Originally Posted by sorchilla
Does anyone know what % of a Harley is manufactured outside the US? I must admit I sometimes (not often) feel guilty about driving/riding non-US manufactured vehicles. My current 05 LT, an 07 X3 and my wifeís new love, her Z4. It is the one Harley vs. BMW debate I donít have a good answer for. If I was to purchase a new ride I most likely would get a new GT/L 1600. I canít help but feel a little guilty considering the miserable unemployment rates right now. Of course in addition the being US built, I want to buy US products but sometimes itís tough to do. Of course, Harleys come with the advantage of not having to wear protective gear and full face helmets Ė just a tee shirt, jeans, and something resembling a boots. Guy - help me feel better about my decisions.
Harley has sourced 1/2 or more of the parts for its bikes from overseas for many years now. My 1993 Ultra Classic ElectraGlide was 35-40% overseas content.

Not sure I can help you feel better about your decisions since your feelings and emotions on these topics are yours, not mine. But I can share my perspective for you to consider.

I try to take the view that it's a global economy and it's virtually impossible to buy anything with more than a couple of moving parts that's wholly created, formed, machined, assembled and produced in the US. A motor vehicle is far outside the realm of possibility in that equation. Where a fork leg, brake disc, cam follower, etc., comes from is less important to me than me purchasing the end product I want in the US, and locally in my city and/or county whenever possible.

I don't feel I have a great deal of impact with worrying about a $.28 fastener and whether it's made in Pittsburgh or Poland. But when I drop $20k+ at the dealer I know he and the staff that I am counting on to support me in the long term and the larger corporation that's providing the bikes I like and prefer are making money. And the local economy is getting a boost from the taxes I paid, the business I just helped keep afloat, the paychecks I just helped fund, etc.

That's the perspective I try to take on this. Don't know if that works for you, but it may be worth thinking about in those terms. If not I can always pour beer into you at Cambria in the Spring and make you feel better about things, at least until you wake up the next day.

David Taylor
San Jose, CA
2010 R1200RT Polar Metallic
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post #10 of 26 Old Dec 9th, 2010, 9:24 pm
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Re: US Made Harley's ????

For now, and, like your comment, I specifically say, for now - that new India plant is designed to assemble bikes for the upcoming India market. Assembly onshore, of parts HD gets from where ever they get parts today - will greatly reduce the cost of a bike for a local Indian. Good for HD, good for America.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hschisler
H-D will be opening an assembly plant (of U.S.-built components) in India in early 2011. And with that, one could imagine a scenario when it is their only assembly plant. A "business decision", you know...

And if that happened, what would all those H-D owners say about "buying American"?

Brad

2008 Harley Road King Classic
2005 BMW K1200S
1983 Honda CB Custom 1000
Gone, but not forgotten:
1995 Harley FatBoy
1972 Honda CB500 Four
1983 Suzuki DR250

CCRs - Breckenridge 04, Jackson Hole 05, Braselton 06, Osage Beach 07, Midway 08, Black Hills 09, Killington 10, Boise 11, Duluth 12, Bend 13, Chattanooga 14, Coeur d'Alene 15
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post #11 of 26 Old Dec 9th, 2010, 10:00 pm
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Re: US Made Harley's ????

Gotta go with Taylor on this, more or less.

From my recent research (purchased a new HD in 2008), I understand "made in America" vs 'elsewhere' is about 50/50.

But, the line is SO blurry with today's global economy if you're looking at materials alone. Iron Ore for a cam is from Australia but processed in China, then formed into general shapes in Brazil and finally finished in USA. Where was it "made"?

What I like about HD - besides they look tough, sound great, and make me look cool ( ) , is close to 10,000 folks in USA work every day putting them together. Then, a trucker in the USA brings the bikes to my town, where my neighbor owns the dealership, and some other local guy sells me the bike. Lots of USA jobs.

What I love about HD, is it's a quality made USA product. Sadly, embarrassingly, I feel those are becoming fewer and fewer these days. Sure, some may argue it's a little low-tech, but I've never found an accessory I couldn't buy for it - and three t-shirts professing my undying devotion.

Having said that, I bought my first (used) BMW this year, from a local dealership, and feel good about owning the bike and happy about the commission the local guy got from the sale.

My next bike will most likely be a Ducati or Triumph. If I were to go to Italy/UK to buy it and shipped it to the house using an Italy/UK shipping service - maybe I'd feel a little guilty - otherwise, no way.

So, go down to your local dealer, buy your 1600, have them do the service and know you're getting what you want and pumping some cash into the USA economy at the same time.

p.s. - Take Taylor up on the free beer - just make sure it's Domestic

p.p.s - ATGATT applies to Harley ridin' too, my friend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidTaylor
Harley has sourced 1/2 or more of the parts for its bikes from overseas for many years now. My 1993 Ultra Classic ElectraGlide was 35-40% overseas content.

Not sure I can help you feel better about your decisions since your feelings and emotions on these topics are yours, not mine. But I can share my perspective for you to consider.

I try to take the view that it's a global economy and it's virtually impossible to buy anything with more than a couple of moving parts that's wholly created, formed, machined, assembled and produced in the US. A motor vehicle is far outside the realm of possibility in that equation. Where a fork leg, brake disc, cam follower, etc., comes from is less important to me than me purchasing the end product I want in the US, and locally in my city and/or county whenever possible.

I don't feel I have a great deal of impact with worrying about a $.28 fastener and whether it's made in Pittsburgh or Poland. But when I drop $20k+ at the dealer I know he and the staff that I am counting on to support me in the long term and the larger corporation that's providing the bikes I like and prefer are making money. And the local economy is getting a boost from the taxes I paid, the business I just helped keep afloat, the paychecks I just helped fund, etc.

That's the perspective I try to take on this. Don't know if that works for you, but it may be worth thinking about in those terms. If not I can always pour beer into you at Cambria in the Spring and make you feel better about things, at least until you wake up the next day.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sorchilla
Does anyone know what % of a Harley is manufactured outside the US? I must admit I sometimes (not often) feel guilty about driving/riding non-US manufactured vehicles. My current 05 LT, an 07 X3 and my wifeís new love, her Z4. It is the one Harley vs. BMW debate I donít have a good answer for. If I was to purchase a new ride I most likely would get a new GT/L 1600. I canít help but feel a little guilty considering the miserable unemployment rates right now. Of course in addition the being US built, I want to buy US products but sometimes itís tough to do. Of course, Harleys come with the advantage of not having to wear protective gear and full face helmets Ė just a tee shirt, jeans, and something resembling a boots. Guy - help me feel better about my decisions.

Brad

2008 Harley Road King Classic
2005 BMW K1200S
1983 Honda CB Custom 1000
Gone, but not forgotten:
1995 Harley FatBoy
1972 Honda CB500 Four
1983 Suzuki DR250

CCRs - Breckenridge 04, Jackson Hole 05, Braselton 06, Osage Beach 07, Midway 08, Black Hills 09, Killington 10, Boise 11, Duluth 12, Bend 13, Chattanooga 14, Coeur d'Alene 15
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post #12 of 26 Old Dec 10th, 2010, 12:04 am
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Re: US Made Harley's ????

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarleyBrad08
....p.p.s - ATGATT applies to Harley ridin' too, my friend.
STOP the presses! HOOLLLLDDDDDDDD up!!
Since when does a "pirate" costume qualify as ATGATT?!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #13 of 26 Old Dec 10th, 2010, 3:24 am
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Re: US Made Harley's ????

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayjacobson
STOP the presses! HOOLLLLDDDDDDDD up!!
Since when does a "pirate" costume qualify as ATGATT?!
When your skin is as tough as leather.
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post #14 of 26 Old Dec 10th, 2010, 12:24 pm
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Re: US Made Harley's ????

Quote:
Originally Posted by saddleman
When your skin is as tough as leather.
Let that be a lesson to me! I forgot how "bad-ass" those Hardley guys are!

Make that "leather" Kevlar, and I'm down with da sickness!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #15 of 26 Old Dec 10th, 2010, 2:59 pm
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Re: US Made Harley's ????

Quote:
Originally Posted by saddleman
When your skin is as tough as leather.
+1

Brad

2008 Harley Road King Classic
2005 BMW K1200S
1983 Honda CB Custom 1000
Gone, but not forgotten:
1995 Harley FatBoy
1972 Honda CB500 Four
1983 Suzuki DR250

CCRs - Breckenridge 04, Jackson Hole 05, Braselton 06, Osage Beach 07, Midway 08, Black Hills 09, Killington 10, Boise 11, Duluth 12, Bend 13, Chattanooga 14, Coeur d'Alene 15
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post #16 of 26 Old Dec 10th, 2010, 3:01 pm
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Re: US Made Harley's ????

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayjacobson
STOP the presses! HOOLLLLDDDDDDDD up!!
Since when does a "pirate" costume qualify as ATGATT?!

Maybe I should have said "should apply".

Brad

2008 Harley Road King Classic
2005 BMW K1200S
1983 Honda CB Custom 1000
Gone, but not forgotten:
1995 Harley FatBoy
1972 Honda CB500 Four
1983 Suzuki DR250

CCRs - Breckenridge 04, Jackson Hole 05, Braselton 06, Osage Beach 07, Midway 08, Black Hills 09, Killington 10, Boise 11, Duluth 12, Bend 13, Chattanooga 14, Coeur d'Alene 15
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post #17 of 26 Old Dec 10th, 2010, 4:16 pm Thread Starter
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Re: US Made Harley's ????

Great responses. I will take Dave up his offer for a beer in Cambria. No beemers in my neighborhood so I occasionally ride with a few HD friends, albeit short rides. Good guys but I'm getting tired of their US Made argument. I'll let BMW know you guys help sway me to getting a new GT/L 1600. Would you mind convincing my bride that my 05LT with only 89K miles needs replaced?

Doug Sorchilla
La Quinta, CA
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post #18 of 26 Old Dec 10th, 2010, 5:01 pm
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Re: US Made Harley's ????

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarleyBrad08
Maybe I should have said "should apply".
Speaking of Amerikan beer: I'll take an ice-cold Guinness!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #19 of 26 Old Dec 10th, 2010, 9:59 pm
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Re: US Made Harley's ????

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayjacobson
Speaking of Amerikan beer: I'll take an ice-cold Guinness!
Well, at least when Guiness gets real cold you use a spoon instead of gulping

Don't be afraid to say what you feel, as those that matter DOnt mind and those that mind Dont matter.
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post #20 of 26 Old Dec 11th, 2010, 10:05 am
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Re: US Made Harley's ????

Quote:
Originally Posted by saddleman
When your skin is as tough as leather.
He's "overdressed" by local standards,
he's wearing shoes!


Hans
St. Petersburg FL

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post #21 of 26 Old Dec 11th, 2010, 10:13 pm
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Re: US Made Harley's ????

It's all about "free trade". Everyone gets to trade in the USA for free. The USA has to pay huge tarriffs to import its completed HD's. So assembling Harleys in India reduces import tarriffs by a large amount and therefore makes them more competitive in India.

The Free Trade acts seems to always short change the USA. So good guys finish last again.

Ultra LT
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post #22 of 26 Old Dec 12th, 2010, 8:02 am
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Re: US Made Harley's ????

Quote:
Originally Posted by sorchilla
Great responses. I will take Dave up his offer for a beer in Cambria. No beemers in my neighborhood so I occasionally ride with a few HD friends, albeit short rides. Good guys but I'm getting tired of their US Made argument. I'll let BMW know you guys help sway me to getting a new GT/L 1600. Would you mind convincing my bride that my 05LT with only 89K miles needs replaced?

2005? 89,000 miles? You still ride that old thing? My God, what do you have, at least two rebuilt final drives in there? I'm amazed your wife hasn't demanded you upgrade, for her safety alone, if she 2-ups. I would strongly suggest puyying this good ol' girl to pasture and purchasing a newer, safer, more reliable machine.







ppssstt - hope this heps (he says in a low whisper)

Brad

2008 Harley Road King Classic
2005 BMW K1200S
1983 Honda CB Custom 1000
Gone, but not forgotten:
1995 Harley FatBoy
1972 Honda CB500 Four
1983 Suzuki DR250

CCRs - Breckenridge 04, Jackson Hole 05, Braselton 06, Osage Beach 07, Midway 08, Black Hills 09, Killington 10, Boise 11, Duluth 12, Bend 13, Chattanooga 14, Coeur d'Alene 15
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post #23 of 26 Old Dec 12th, 2010, 10:52 am
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Re: US Made Harley's ????

Quote:
Originally Posted by haughty
Well, at least when Guiness gets real cold you use a spoon instead of gulping
Spoon in Guinness.....A perfect 31 degrees!
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverBuffalo
He's "overdressed" by local standards,
he's wearing shoes!
Another great Point, Hans! When your feet are made of Kevlar, why do you need shoes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarleyBrad08
2005? 89,000 miles? You still ride that old thing? My God, what do you have, at least two rebuilt final drives in there? I'm amazed your wife hasn't demanded you upgrade, for her safety alone, if she 2-ups. I would strongly suggest puyying this good ol' girl to pasture and purchasing a newer, safer, more reliable machine.
.....
+1. 89k is a lot for a trailer!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #24 of 26 Old Dec 12th, 2010, 3:46 pm
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Re: US Made Harley's ????

Harleys are about 33% American. I know, because I worked there. For 3 weeks.


Dean and Deb
Golden, CO


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post #25 of 26 Old Dec 12th, 2010, 7:51 pm
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Re: US Made Harley's ????

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsauer608
Harleys are about 33% American. I know, because I worked there. For 3 weeks.

Amazing, Dean! I heard their retirement plan was good, but that's sick.

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #26 of 26 Old Dec 20th, 2010, 10:23 am
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Re: US Made Harley's ????

One of the wonderful things about living in the U.S. is the freedom to purchase the products you want, regardless of where they were made. I try to by the best vehicles I can afford. Back in the days of the U.S.S.R., they built some real crap cars, and the people had no other cars to choose from. If an American made car or bike is the best for the money I will buy it(I had an American made Toyota which I loved). Other wise, I will buy the foreign made one. The reason the American car companies are in such trouble is because their products were crap for so long.

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