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post #1 of 10 Old Nov 2nd, 2010, 4:26 am Thread Starter
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engine not starting

This may be in the wrong bit if the forum, but here goes.
last week Slammer was happily riding along without a care in the world and chanced upon a stand selling charcoal roasted chestnuts.
Can't pass one of those, they have the huge sweet North Italian ones.
Stopped the beemer (LT 1100, 93 mod) put it on the side stand and had to catch the bugger as it fell over. The screw holding the stand had mysteriously vanished.
I set a course for the nearby bike shop, there the guy had her on her stand again in a few minutes.
Lots a thanks and a handful of Franks later and I was on my way again.
For about a Kilometer, then the engine stopped and we chugged to a shuddering halt.
Checked the stand, Yup! Still there.
Micro-switch, Still switching.
Lots'a head scratching.
Turn the key, pumps whirr, hit the button, zilch!
Lights work and some of the instruments.
What I did notice though was that the gear indicator was not showing anything.
Anybody got an idea?
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post #2 of 10 Old Nov 2nd, 2010, 8:03 am
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Re: engine not starting

Sidestand switch....
Or bent gearshift....or damaged gear selection wire by the sidestand ... could be inside the wire bundle.. (not visible).... if you can pull in the clutch, does it crank?

...............
J.M.J...
Dcn Channing

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post #3 of 10 Old Nov 3rd, 2010, 5:33 am Thread Starter
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Re: engine not starting

You could be right, gonna try that.
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post #4 of 10 Old Nov 3rd, 2010, 9:31 am
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Re: engine not starting

Slammer, here is a bit of tech background - it should let you figure out what is screwing you up. I edited this out of a write-up I did for the R12GS, but the starting logic is the same for most of BMW bikes.

Here it goes - read it through and see where your symptoms fit.

- - - - - -

The clutch switch is a part of the safety interlock system, utilizing transmission gear sensor, side stand switch and clutch switch. On the R12GS, it follows principles that are very much like those of most other bikes. Most problem causes can be deduced by observing behavior of the bike in situations described below.

Side stand down:

When the sidestand is deployed and transmission is in gear, the ignition is cut off and start inhibited (regardless of clutch position). This is to prevent riding with stand down.

Moving transmission into neutral will enable ignition and starter, regardless of sidestand position.


Side stand up (retracted):

When the transmission is in gear, starter is disabled - unless clutch lever is depressed. Depressing the clutch lever allows starting in gear. This is to prevent cranking while the engine is connected to the drivetrain.

Moving transmission into neutral enables starter, regardless of clutch position and of sidestand position.



TROUBLESHOOTING YOUR SYMPTOMS.

- Gear indicator / neutral light OK? If not, the gear-position switch is your culprit. By the way, if it is, check the connector for the gear-position switch. It is exposed to water spray from rear wheel and could develop bad contact. If you are lucky, just tugging on the connector or disconnecting/reconnecting may work enough to clean it - it worked for me earlier this year. The position switch and connector are located at the back of transmission case, immediately ahead of the bottom mount of the rear shock.

- Once started, does the engine run in gear? If the motor turns off the moment you drop in gear, you have problem with side-stand switch, not with clutch.

- You can crank in Neutral, but cannot crank in gear, even though you are pulling the clutch in. However, once it fires up, you can put it in gear and drive away. If so, it is related to clutch safety interlock. Go to next question.

- Did you recently drop the bike? If so, you may have "tweaked" the hand-guard and now it is preventing the clutch lever from retracting fully. Check that you can fully release the clutch lever without it hitting the guard. If the guard interferes, twist it until it aligns with the lever and allows it to release.

- Last check: listen for the click of the microswitch in the clutch lever. You should hear it about half-way through movement of lever. Turn engine off - it is quite faint. For comparison, you should hear a similar click from the handbrake lever.

Did it click? If so, either the microswitch failed or the wiring back to the ECU is damaged. You may have to whip out your ohm-meter and electrical schematics and start chasing that down.

It did not click? Assuming the lever moves freely all the way to release, the microswitch is either packed with dirt (stop dropping that bike, already...) or out of adjustment.


I hope this helps.

Robert in Northern NJ

'09 R12GS, '08 R12RT, '03 R1150RT, '01 F650GS - time to thin the herd?


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Last edited by rdwalker; Nov 3rd, 2010 at 9:42 am.
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post #5 of 10 Old Nov 3rd, 2010, 6:34 pm
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Re: engine not starting

A quick check of the schematic shows that on the K1100 (93) the side stand switch passes switched, 12volts to the fuel pump relay coil. If that switch or wire is broken you get no fuel.
This is quite different as to how it works on the K1200LT.

John
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2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #6 of 10 Old Nov 4th, 2010, 7:53 am
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Re: engine not starting

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler
A quick check of the schematic shows that on the K1100 (93) the side stand switch passes switched, 12volts to the fuel pump relay coil. If that switch or wire is broken you get no fuel.
This is quite different as to how it works on the K1200LT.
I see. It's a while since I had that generation of K-bike (a K100RS) and I did not recall anything different about the interlocking. Thanks for the correction.

So, that would exonerate the sidestand switch from being the culprit, since in such configuration it does not prevent cranking, just running. Slammer reports that he can hear the pump whirring.

Anyway, my money is on the gear sensor or associated wiring, since in his post Slammer mentions the gear indicator out of service. It is likely that in the process of installing a new bolt something got cut or a connector got pulled apart.

Bottom line: the system is very simple, but it requires a bit of thinking to analyze the symptoms - and, of course, the correct wiring diagram.


By now, I'd guess that the OP got his machine back home and sorted out. What did you find, Slammer?

Robert in Northern NJ

'09 R12GS, '08 R12RT, '03 R1150RT, '01 F650GS - time to thin the herd?


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post #7 of 10 Old Nov 5th, 2010, 5:11 am Thread Starter
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Re: engine not starting

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdwalker
I see. It's a while since I had that generation of K-bike (a K100RS) and I did not recall anything different about the interlocking. Thanks for the correction.

So, that would exonerate the sidestand switch from being the culprit, since in such configuration it does not prevent cranking, just running. Slammer reports that he can hear the pump whirring.

Anyway, my money is on the gear sensor or associated wiring, since in his post Slammer mentions the gear indicator out of service. It is likely that in the process of installing a new bolt something got cut or a connector got pulled apart.

Bottom line: the system is very simple, but it requires a bit of thinking to analyze the symptoms - and, of course, the correct wiring diagram.


By now, I'd guess that the OP got his machine back home and sorted out. What did you find, Slammer?
Found it.
The Starter motor has ceased to be one, went through all the wires and everything was in order. Looks like a case of two things going wrong at once.
Sad thing is that if I can not repair it a new starter will cost more than the bike is worth
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post #8 of 10 Old Nov 5th, 2010, 7:24 am
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Re: engine not starting

Are ya sure it aint a bad relay?

...............
J.M.J...
Dcn Channing

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post #9 of 10 Old Nov 5th, 2010, 9:06 am Thread Starter
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Re: engine not starting

Ah! Now you are screwing with my mind, just as I thought: "Awwwright! Gotcha, you open up a whole new can of worms.

I have put it in the trustworthy hands of Moto Kehl http://www.kehl-moto.ch/ if you are ever in need of a bike repair and you are in the area. I just know that this is going to be a X-Rated repair, (X as in eXpensive)
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post #10 of 10 Old Nov 6th, 2010, 8:43 am Thread Starter
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Re: engine not starting

Aaaaand the winner of the "What is wrong with Slammer´s bike" Sweepstake is......:



Cfell

Yup, one relay and 100 Franks later and she is allllliive.

Owe you a beer!
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