Work has asked me to not ride on business related trips! - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 41 Old May 5th, 2010, 7:47 pm Thread Starter
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Work has asked me to not ride on business related trips!

My boss rather awkwardly told me that my employer did not want me to ride my motorcycle on business related trips. I asked why but he wouldn't give me a reason. I'm sure the message isn't coming from him, so I didn't shoot the messenger.

My first response to him was: "I don't think that's legal".

Your thoughts?

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post #2 of 41 Old May 5th, 2010, 7:53 pm
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Re: Work has asked me to not ride on business related trips!

No solid advice for you, except to say that I'd be very curious (if I were in your situation) to know exactly why. You haven't said what your occupation is, but unless you pick up clients or transport something special what do they care? Presumed liability, perhaps? (in case you are in an accident)

A pre-emptive visit to a lawyer could be useful, as could be contacting the AMA. They may have some literature/propaganda for you to use in your "defense" if you get in a discussion with your employer.

One has to wonder if it's because they are image-conscious. Assuming you wear all the gear, maybe you are showing up with wrinkled slacks for customer meetings or something?

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post #3 of 41 Old May 5th, 2010, 7:57 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Work has asked me to not ride on business related trips!

I work in a new product development group and occasionally meet with customers that I know well and who know I ride a motorcycle. The last time I visited them, they all came out and checked out my bike and farkles.

I've got a great relationship with my employer as well, this one really surprised me.

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post #4 of 41 Old May 5th, 2010, 7:57 pm
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Re: Work has asked me to not ride on business related trips!

Hey, That's great. This means they'll be providing you with a company car...

John

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post #5 of 41 Old May 5th, 2010, 8:36 pm
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Re: Work has asked me to not ride on business related trips!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkjkwood
My boss rather awkwardly told me that my employer did not want me to ride my motorcycle on business related trips. I asked why but he wouldn't give me a reason. I'm sure the message isn't coming from him, so I didn't shoot the messenger.

My first response to him was: "I don't think that's legal".

Your thoughts?
More than likely if your company directed you to travel for business reasons, that journey would be considered work related in the event of an accident. That means Workman's compensation would kick in if you filed and the accident and any injuries would effect your companies OSHA accident statistics. Depending what type of industry you're in that could be a huge deal.

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post #6 of 41 Old May 5th, 2010, 8:42 pm
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Re: Work has asked me to not ride on business related trips!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPSpen
Hey, That's great. This means they'll be providing you with a company car...

John
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post #7 of 41 Old May 5th, 2010, 9:21 pm
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Re: Work has asked me to not ride on business related trips!

Quote:
Originally Posted by LARK
More than likely if your company directed you to travel for business reasons, that journey would be considered work related in the event of an accident. That means Workman's compensation would kick in if you filed and the accident and any injuries would effect your companies OSHA accident statistics. Depending what type of industry you're in that could be a huge deal.
I'm going to go with this answer too, so 1+ on Worker's Compensation for the reason. I have to admit it, money makes the world go around.
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post #8 of 41 Old May 5th, 2010, 10:22 pm
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Re: Work has asked me to not ride on business related trips!

As much of a rebel that I am, I am on the fence with this one. I have employed, and have been an employee. I have always felt that when you are employed, your employer is allowed to make certain rules and policies. It is your choice whether or not to take the job, or keep the job. If your employer can come up with a reasonable or valid explanation, then you seriously need to think about what you want/need to do about it.
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post #9 of 41 Old May 6th, 2010, 6:06 am
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Re: Work has asked me to not ride on business related trips!

Technically, I'm not supposed to ride on official company business. Fortunately, since they came out with that mandate, I haven't had to travel.

I think it has a lot to do with 1) insurance, and 2) image. Believe it or not there is still that stigma with some people about riding that just flat turns them off.


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post #10 of 41 Old May 6th, 2010, 7:32 am
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Re: Work has asked me to not ride on business related trips!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkjkwood
My boss rather awkwardly told me that my employer did not want me to ride my motorcycle on business related trips. I asked why but he wouldn't give me a reason. I'm sure the message isn't coming from him, so I didn't shoot the messenger.

My first response to him was: "I don't think that's legal".

Your thoughts?

Lots of different thoughts, but initially, I would follow their suggestion if you like your job. They could have not said anything and then used another reason to eliminate your position. Not necessary right or wrong, just the reality of it.

I remember a drill instructor, quite a few years ago, on the first day saying that our mere existence was always in violation of something.

In my previous life I would have been pissed and probably carried a chip on my shoulder. Ready, Fire, Aim!

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post #11 of 41 Old May 6th, 2010, 7:39 am
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Re: Work has asked me to not ride on business related trips!

Quote:
Originally Posted by LARK
More than likely if your company directed you to travel for business reasons, that journey would be considered work related in the event of an accident. That means Workman's compensation would kick in if you filed and the accident and any injuries would effect your companies OSHA accident statistics. Depending what type of industry you're in that could be a huge deal.
I think this is spot on and in my experience this would hold up legally. In my opinion if you like your employer and your job I believe I would comply with their wishes on business related travel. The exception would be if your motorcycle is your only means of transportation, in which case your employer should provide you with suitable transportation for required company travel.

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post #12 of 41 Old May 6th, 2010, 8:10 am
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Re: Work has asked me to not ride on business related trips!

Where I run my business the employer is liable for the employees wellfare on the shortest route to and from work.

In other words, if one of my employees has a traffic accident going home, my company is liable to pay damages if they are injured, as well as the costs of employing him/her whilst they are off work.
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post #13 of 41 Old May 6th, 2010, 2:10 pm
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Re: Work has asked me to not ride on business related trips!

Its bullshit, pure and simple.

So who died and made a cage the primary mode of transportation as dictated by the gods or whatever...good grief.

I don't fly. I ride. Or I don't go. How about that? if they wanna fire me, so what and get ready for a lawsuit.

really irks me when a bunch of wuffo's try to tell me how to best live my life but hey, thats nothing new when you feed on adrenalin...cheezz..
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post #14 of 41 Old May 6th, 2010, 2:54 pm
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Re: Work has asked me to not ride on business related trips!

I'm a retired manager for Verizon and it was specifically spelled out in our HR guidelines for company travel that you can't do 2 things:

1- Ride a motorcycle.
2- Pilot your own aircraft.

I'm sure that it has to do with liability.

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post #15 of 41 Old May 6th, 2010, 3:14 pm
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Re: Work has asked me to not ride on business related trips!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiderRay
I'm a retired manager for Verizon and it was specifically spelled out in our HR guidelines for company travel that you can't do 2 things:

1- Ride a motorcycle.
2- Pilot your own aircraft.

I'm sure that it has to do with liability.
Many of my clients have the same restrictions, even though I am contracting to them typically, I still fall under their travel guidelines. Of course I am not happy with either of those restrictions.

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post #16 of 41 Old May 6th, 2010, 4:51 pm
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Re: Work has asked me to not ride on business related trips!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiderRay
I'm a retired manager for Verizon and it was specifically spelled out in our HR guidelines for company travel that you can't do 2 things:

1- Ride a motorcycle.
2- Pilot your own aircraft.

I'm sure that it has to do with liability.
Or perhaps some old-school ignorance. Many years ago the American Red Cross used to ask blood donors if they worked in a dangerous occupation. That question went away years ago, but I was always curious what was behind it.

I wonder if European employers - where motorcycle/scooter use is greater (my assumption) - have the same restrictions on employee travel?

My company has me traveling frequently between 2 cities in Ohio, 3 hours apart. Most of the year I do it on the LT, and get paid mileage for riding because they would otherwise pay for a rental car. If I drove my personal car they would pay the same mileage for that, but I prefer to put miles on MY bike and THEIR rental.

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post #17 of 41 Old May 6th, 2010, 6:38 pm
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Re: Work has asked me to not ride on business related trips!

Howard, back in my working daze I had a buddy who said, "If the company wants you to drive somewhere, rent a car". His point: if your rental car craps out, call the rental agency and they'll deliver you a new car. What do you do if your personal vehicle craps out on a business trip ??

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post #18 of 41 Old May 6th, 2010, 6:55 pm
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Re: Work has asked me to not ride on business related trips!

Most of the companies I worked for would not let me pilot a plane, or ride a motorcycle on any business trip. It had nothing to do with the company's policies, but rather insurance company restrictions.

Basically, if the company management even wanted you to ride, they would likely be constrained by their insurance carrier.

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post #19 of 41 Old May 6th, 2010, 9:44 pm
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Re: Work has asked me to not ride on business related trips!

My employer says no motorcycle on company travel . Some BS about riding a MC is entaining . So it is their ball game , in short if you have no work contract and what they want you to do is not illegal , immoral or unsafe it is their way or the highway.

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post #20 of 41 Old May 6th, 2010, 10:08 pm
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Re: Work has asked me to not ride on business related trips!

They are 'protecting' you.. rrrrright...

Golden rule, Bro..

who has the gold makes da rulez.

Sucks to be an American sometimes.

However, if you want to start the change, how about contacting the local "Greenies" and say.. "company X won't allow me to reduce my Carbon Footprint.. instead they insist we all drive cars!"

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post #21 of 41 Old May 7th, 2010, 4:12 am
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Re: Work has asked me to not ride on business related trips!

Before you spend money on a lawyer or think of getting rebellious I'd suggest that you have a read of your contract. The answer could well be there.
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post #22 of 41 Old May 7th, 2010, 11:38 am
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Re: Work has asked me to not ride on business related trips!

Howard, you see a lot of kids on scooters and motorcycles, but they are not part of the working population ( what´s left of it ). Most people still use a car or public transport.

I would agree that one does see more and more larger scooters in the 250 to 600 cc range, but that is because in large cities parking is so difficult and expensive.
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post #23 of 41 Old May 7th, 2010, 1:36 pm
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Re: Work has asked me to not ride on business related trips!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiderRay
I'm a retired manager for Verizon and it was specifically spelled out in our HR guidelines for company travel that you can't do 2 things:

1- Ride a motorcycle.
2- Pilot your own aircraft.

I'm sure that it has to do with liability.
I feel fortunate as my company only has #2 as a limitation, so far...

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post #24 of 41 Old May 7th, 2010, 2:31 pm
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Re: Work has asked me to not ride on business related trips!

I'm sure liabilty is one of the reasons, but the main reason is the stigma around motorcyclists. We are know to be "bad guys". Damn harley riders giving us a bad rep

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post #25 of 41 Old May 7th, 2010, 4:21 pm
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Re: Work has asked me to not ride on business related trips!

I'm very fortunate in this respect. I ride 50k/year and a lot of that is due to work (and of course I go through the mountains, et el as much as possible).

I have broken down a few times. It costs me out of pocket, I do not infringe upon my employer whatsoever regarding time used to ride and/or other issues. I do not charge for motels I use if my route takes any longer than a flight.

In turn, they leave me alone for the most part. There was some concern after my oct crash but I still managed to work 4 hrs/day from home during the first month or so.

It simply amazes me that TRANSPORTATION you use can be dictated by an employer unless you are a salesman or something, regarding the perception issue.

Honestly, if that was a policy I had to live with, well, I wouldn't. Unless you are making millions (NFL, etc) or something (who knows where the cut line should be, if at all), it just ain't right.

oh, by the way, before my first ever crash/total with 265k on bikes, my worst injuries ever were on a mountain bike, which I rode to work every day for 5 years (except winter), 25 miles/day. No one ever said anything about that, even though I hit or got hit by cars at least 2x per commuting season (was in MI at the time). And I had 15k miles on just one of my bicycles. Now you know why I switched to motorbikes again!
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post #26 of 41 Old May 7th, 2010, 11:11 pm
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Re: Work has asked me to not ride on business related trips!

I guess I should start feeling fortunate, then, (seriously) that my employer doesn't mind that I ride to/from the other city where I work. As I mentioned, they will pay for a rental car, or reimburse me at the standard IRS rate if I drive or ride my own vehicle. I have run the numbers and I can show them that the personal mileage reimbursement is a little cheaper than the rental car - especially if the trip is 3 days or more. That said, I will continue to "lay low" and not make a deal of riding on these trips. They know that I am but nothing has ever been said. Let's hope it stays that way.

I also understand that all it takes is one over-zealous administrator to say "hey, motorcycling is dangerous. Drive a car." Until then, I'll ride if/when I can.

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post #27 of 41 Old May 8th, 2010, 6:12 am
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Re: Work has asked me to not ride on business related trips!

Heheh, some folks think we ride to make money on trips! I dont' think they've ever paid for tires and beemer maintenance!

We get paid either the IRS rate or the plane fare, whatever is the cheaper rate. When plane fares were down, I got something like 200 bucks for a round trip to Dallas from Phoenix sometimes it's ok, sometimes not so ok but I still ride, its worth whatever it costs most of the time. Plane fares are way up so thats not much of an issue these dayz.

I mean, think about it, if motorbikes were invented before the cage, maybe we wouldn't be in this position? Sometimes I think we're light years behind Europe in these respects.

And I definitely agree about the 'green' thing, never thought about it from that angle.

I had a supervisor get in my face about riding...I told him to mind his own daym business, long as I'm at work on time, its not his concern how I get there. Maybe you can get away with that when yer old
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post #28 of 41 Old May 8th, 2010, 8:02 am
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Re: Work has asked me to not ride on business related trips!

Unless you are ready to retire or change employers not much you can do.

That said it does suck.

Unfortunately we exist in a society where litigation, and insurance statistics, dictate a company's policies on driving ones own vehicle, motorcycle or not, for work travel.

I do like the "green" approach though. But when being paid IRS rate traveling on a Motorcycle I make money, no doubt about that. Everything factored in, including the fun factor. However not something I really want to brag about to my Supervisor, or Board. But on the flip side, if I have to drive a company vehicle I have nothing invested and that has advantages also.

Sometimes life just is not fair.

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post #29 of 41 Old May 8th, 2010, 12:38 pm
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Re: Work has asked me to not ride on business related trips!

Another thought, after reading several more replies:

If your employer makes you drive a car (yours or a rental) because a car is "safer" than a motorcycle, then they better be requiring you to drive a car with the highest safety rating or else their logic goes out the window. And if they are really that concerned about your safety, they better have all workplace dangers remediated: asbestos, UV rays through windows, carcinogenic food in the vending machines, sick-building syndrome, blah blah blah...

Finally, if their reason is for potential liability, they better go with the car that causes the least damage to the other guy... whatever that is.

Maybe Ken Meese has had a positive effect on me: it's easy to point out faulty logic when it's not applied consistently.

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post #30 of 41 Old May 8th, 2010, 9:00 pm
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Re: Work has asked me to not ride on business related trips!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkjkwood
My boss rather awkwardly told me that my employer did not want me to ride my motorcycle on business related trips. I asked why but he wouldn't give me a reason. I'm sure the message isn't coming from him, so I didn't shoot the messenger.

My first response to him was: "I don't think that's legal".

Your thoughts?
Being an employer since age 19, I can assure you, as others have pointed out, it is simply a liability issue, insurance issue, safety issue, perception issue- in that order.
Lawyers are to blame as we now exist in a "cover your ass" society with lawsuits the norm.
Basically if all you did was come to work, park, clock in-clock out and leave you could fly in on a kite or skateboard as long as you are on time.
The moment I need you to go to a client using your personal transportation (or pick up toilet paper or lunch for the office for that matter) I become liable as you are acting on the companies behalf.
If it is a good job you have to choose cause somebody will gladly take your job driving a car!
Wish it wasn't so!

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post #31 of 41 Old May 10th, 2010, 3:41 am
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Re: Work has asked me to not ride on business related trips!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hschisler
....Maybe Ken Meese has had a positive effect on me: it's easy to point out faulty emotion when it's not applied consistently.
Fixed it for yah!

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post #32 of 41 Old May 10th, 2010, 8:58 am
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Re: Work has asked me to not ride on business related trips!

My company just made an interesting change in policy over the last several years. We have lots of folks that have private pilots licenses and own their own aircraft. The policy change says you cannot fly your own aircraft and be reimbursed for it. My territory coverage is basically the Southeast US, If I have the time to travel by motorcycle/car for work then I can take either one and if it's an emergency trip I fly. I'd go by train rather than plane if we had a good rail system (but that's another discussion). No matter which mode of transport I use, my manager always say "Travel Safe."

Along the same lines, if they can tell you can't ride a motorcycle for work, why can't they tell you that you can't ride a motorcycle at all? A injury from a motorcycle accident, whether it be from work or pleasure, is still going to be an insurance cost and in a serious accident affect your ability to work.

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post #33 of 41 Old May 10th, 2010, 10:20 am
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Re: Work has asked me to not ride on business related trips!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_R
Along the same lines, if they can tell you can't ride a motorcycle for work, why can't they tell you that you can't ride a motorcycle at all? A injury from a motorcycle accident, whether it be from work or pleasure, is still going to be an insurance cost and in a serious accident affect your ability to work.
Typically what they have done in the past is list "unsafe activities" under what your employer's health care doesn't cover (horseback riding, skiing, motorcycles, surfing...) The AMA and other organizations are trying to get that trend reversed.

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post #34 of 41 Old May 10th, 2010, 11:30 am
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Re: Work has asked me to not ride on business related trips!

I ride to work almost every day, but also fly a lot on company business. I usually leave directly from work to go to the airport, and often on the bike. At that point I am on Company business...for 16 miles...$8 under current reimbursement rates. In the event that the bike was banned, I would either rent a car at around $50 with taxes or take a taxi for about the same price. You are correct that money makes the world go round, so at this point the bike is a much better deal for them. It also helps that we are self-insured.

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post #35 of 41 Old May 10th, 2010, 10:07 pm
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Re: Work has asked me to not ride on business related trips!

I work for at&t & also can't ride a motorcycle if they are paying me while I ride. Whether it's a "callout", where they call me in outside my normal work schedule & start paying me from the time I get the call till I get back home. Which keeps me from riding into town to my company truck & then back home. Or travel to schools & such where they are paying my travel expenses. I didn't know it for a long time. I was riding my bike to work daily & one of the other guys mentioned that we couldn't ride our bikes in if it was a "callout" situation. I didn't question it much because it would be like fighting the government to get that policy changed in a company this big.

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post #36 of 41 Old May 11th, 2010, 10:49 am
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Re: Work has asked me to not ride on business related trips!

Yeah, would go with the company's policy. Just retired from 30 years with a Fortune 20 firm. I could ride a motorcycle to my heart's content... to HQ 1,500 miles away, to customers, to meetings, etc. Not only that, I could expense off what it would have cost me to fly instead.
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post #37 of 41 Old May 11th, 2010, 11:21 am
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Re: Work has asked me to not ride on business related trips!

Gotta make a trip to Nashville area next week. Told my boss about the Dragon and he said I could ride down to the Dragon and then meet him in Nashville then ride home.

Garry

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post #38 of 41 Old May 12th, 2010, 2:09 am
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Re: Work has asked me to not ride on business related trips!

As the other guys pointed out, where does the ass-wiping end?

What if you smoke? What about being over-weight? What if you have a pre-existing condition that makes you an increased "risk?" How about to much fast food? What if you have a poor driving record or poor credit record?

I mean we can pretty much take this tom-foolery as far as we want and virtually noone would be an "acceptable" risk.

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #39 of 41 Old May 12th, 2010, 11:19 am
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Re: Work has asked me to not ride on business related trips!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayjacobson
As the other guys pointed out, where does the ass-wiping end?

What if you smoke? What about being over-weight? What if you have a pre-existing condition that makes you an increased "risk?" How about to much fast food? What if you have a poor driving record or poor credit record?

I mean we can pretty much take this tom-foolery as far as we want and virtually noone would be an "acceptable" risk.
I nominate YOU & Hans for the new supreme court judge!

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post #40 of 41 Old May 14th, 2010, 3:31 pm
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Re: Work has asked me to not ride on business related trips!

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I nominate YOU & Hans for the new supreme court judge!
NNNNOOOOOOOO! Common sense lives.........

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #41 of 41 Old May 19th, 2010, 9:12 pm
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Re: Work has asked me to not ride on business related trips!

They probably figure since you ride a motorcycle, after work you will be raping, pillaging and burning. After all, we Beemer riders have a reputation to uphold...............

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