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post #1 of 21 Old Apr 16th, 2009, 7:21 pm Thread Starter
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Preventing accidents

Has any study ever been done about accident prevention on bikes? I'm not talking about the rider being at fault. I am absolutely convienced that just because a person is not "at fault", that they could not have prevented the accident. For instance, if a car makes a left turn in front of a biker at an interestion, the car driver is clearly at fault. However, could the biker have anticipated the action, slowed down, used another lane or even sped up at the right time to remain safe?

I'm not the most experienced rider around. I dare say that in this forum, I'm one of the least experienced. I'd like to hear what others have to say on this. I just got back into riding last year after 20 years in a cage and its changed me in a lot of ways. I ride with the assumption that car drivers will do stupid things and I spend my entire time figuring out how to not be killed if they live up to my assumptions.

I don't want to be guy in the hospital that people say "... and it wasn't even his fault..." when I know damn well that I could have prevented the situation that lead to an accident.
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post #2 of 21 Old Apr 16th, 2009, 7:43 pm
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Re: Preventing accidents

To paraphrase my old flight instructor, never ride to where your head hasn't been 7 seconds earlier.

Drive in the future, anticipate what might happen and plan a way out. Always know what is around you, is there a car in back, side, front? What direction speed are they going. In short pay attention.

Sometimes you just have to trust your spidey sense. I'll bet that car moves over, where will I go, cover the breaks or hit the throttle. Will that dragging car ramp fall off the truck? What if that tire blows on that trailer, do I want to be along side? Maybe I shouldn't stay there that long.

Don't assume they see you. Look into their eyes. Are they in the same world you are? Are they paying attention or day dreaming. Are they driving or texting.

Just Go
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post #3 of 21 Old Apr 16th, 2009, 8:47 pm
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Re: Preventing accidents

Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffy109
Has any study ever been done about accident prevention on bikes?

Go look up the Hurt report. It's the most extensive study of motorcycle accidents ever conducted, lead by Dr. Harry Hurt.
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post #4 of 21 Old Apr 16th, 2009, 9:00 pm
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Re: Preventing accidents

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottly
Go look up the Hurt report. It's the most extensive study of motorcycle accidents ever conducted, lead by Dr. Harry Hurt.
.... and some might argue that a "review" is overdue...
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post #5 of 21 Old Apr 16th, 2009, 9:51 pm
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Re: Preventing accidents

David Houghs book has a few items from the Hurt report in it (what a name for a report on MC accidents- hurt)..
LOts of decent reads out there as well.

I did take up a suggestion from a poster here- Jerry Paladinos RIde Like a pro series..
All are good primers for Motorcycle control and recognizing hazards.

But as suggested- DO NOT think they see you...EVEN if they have, chances are they will do whatever is going through those little brain cells at that point in time..

THe ride is enjoyable but frought with danger..

ANd another thing these ladies and guys have me doing- WEAR your PPE your gloves/helmet/jacket and pants with armour included, Boots as well.
I cannot tell you what to do, but I care for you and I havent even met you yet.

Good riding there..

Don't be afraid to say what you feel, as those that matter DOnt mind and those that mind Dont matter.
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post #6 of 21 Old Apr 16th, 2009, 10:27 pm
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Re: Preventing accidents

Ok, I am not the most experienced but some of my friends have been riding more than 30 years. This is what he advised me.

1. ATGATT, It took one accident where he was leaning and hit gravel, the bike slid from under him and gor bad road-rash

2. When coming into the intersection, look at the tires of the car in the left turn lane that will potentially turn in front of you. The position of the tires may give you a clue on what the cager is trying to do.

3. Look in the back window and drive mirrors of the cars in front of you. If you see their head turn, they are more than likely to be moving over a lane and not see you.

4. Watch for freeway entrance or exits. You may have the DA that slides over 3 lanes fearing he will miss his exit. Keep an eye to your left when you approach freeway exits to see if a car is looking to cross multiple lanes.

5. Freeway exits, be aware that cagers are not using the freeway exit lanes as a means to pass other cars and then all of a sudden, they swerve back into the freeway, maybe plowing into you.

6. The traffic lanes are broken into A,B and C. Try to stay in lane A-B, more towards lane A. This will prevent cars to assume that you are giving up your part of the lane for them to use as a passing lane. You do not want to give them the idea that you are sharing your lane with others.

Thats all I can think of at the moment

Marty Galison
Surprise, Arizona

"When the people fear the government you have tyranny...when the government fears the people you have liberty."

--Thomas Jefferson --
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post #7 of 21 Old Apr 16th, 2009, 10:27 pm
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Re: Preventing accidents

Quote:
Originally Posted by haughty
David Houghs book has a few items from the Hurt report in it (what a name for a report on MC accidents- hurt)..
Lots of decent reads out there as well. ...
+1 on David L. Hough, "Proficient Motorcycling, 2nd Edition." The 2nd edition has more up-to-date data and statistics.
When you are done reading that, try More Proficient Motorcycling by the same author.
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post #8 of 21 Old Apr 17th, 2009, 11:46 am
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Re: Preventing accidents

Basically I was taught to play the "What If" game a long long time ago.

Basically you just look at something and make a scenario of what if that guy pulls out in front of me. And go through that evasive action in your mind.

I play it all the time and for some reason some of the scenario people play along..........

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post #9 of 21 Old Apr 17th, 2009, 1:16 pm
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Re: Preventing accidents

By all means, do all those things mentioned by others. Unfortunately, there are just some times that, well, sh*t happens. You look, you anticipate, you plan, and then some moron just up and does something completely out of left field that blindsides you. It's impossible to predict everything that may happen when you ride.

Stay alert and ride within your abilities and confidence level, and you'll probably be able to avoid 99% of the bad situations out there. ATGATT for that other 1%, and hope it's something relatively minor should it happen.

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post #10 of 21 Old Apr 17th, 2009, 2:03 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Preventing accidents

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tat_n_Telle
By all means, do all those things mentioned by others. Unfortunately, there are just some times that, well, sh*t happens. You look, you anticipate, you plan, and then some moron just up and does something completely out of left field that blindsides you. It's impossible to predict everything that may happen when you ride.

Stay alert and ride within your abilities and confidence level, and you'll probably be able to avoid 99% of the bad situations out there. ATGATT for that other 1%, and hope it's something relatively minor should it happen.
That's a pretty good summary. I do a lot of things to keep myself out of harm's way. It amazes me that more riders are not smooshed sometimes. I see a lot of riders doing things that, while not illegal or "at fault", certainly could do a better job of avoiding problems.

Yes, I am a believer in ATGATT. My co-workers call it my Power Rangers suit, but I'll take that over road-rash (or worse) any day.
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post #11 of 21 Old Apr 17th, 2009, 5:19 pm
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Re: Preventing accidents

The AMA is lobbying for a new "Hurt Report" to update the info, but the old report is still valid. The best advice I ever got was this:
"A motorcycle is a magical thing. Once you mount you become invisible. You can see them, but they can't see you. Never forget it!"

The MSF course is a huge help as well.

Benny C. (Central Texas)
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post #12 of 21 Old Apr 17th, 2009, 6:21 pm
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Re: Preventing accidents

Keeping it simple, I take responsibility for EVERYTHING that happens around me, my fault or not. If I am reacting and surprised, then I'm not in control. If I have to use my horn, generally I'm not in control. I'm invisible and very defensive. ATGATT......

I think it would be hard to study something that has not happened!

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post #13 of 21 Old Apr 17th, 2009, 6:21 pm
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Re: Preventing accidents

Quote:
Originally Posted by BennyBob
The AMA is lobbying for a new "Hurt Report" to update the info, but the old report is still valid. The best advice I ever got was this:
"A motorcycle is a magical thing. Once you mount you become invisible. You can see them, but they can't see you. Never forget it!"

The MSF course is a huge help as well.

I just Knew the ride was magical and it didn't even have to be a bus!!!!!

So true about how you are invisible....

WIsh that had worked for the previous 7 wives..

Don't be afraid to say what you feel, as those that matter DOnt mind and those that mind Dont matter.
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1982 SUZUKI GS1000 (GONE)
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2004 BMW R 1150 RT Sold.....
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post #14 of 21 Old Apr 18th, 2009, 10:42 am
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Re: Preventing accidents

My rules are simple; beware of :
Teens
Teens w/cellphones( now they text and drive!)
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Soccer moms in minivans w/cellphones
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post #15 of 21 Old Apr 21st, 2009, 12:46 am
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Re: Preventing accidents

Approx 20 years ago now, an old, crusty T/O said, "NEVER be right--DEAD right! Seems to work on M/C's, as well....

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #16 of 21 Old Apr 21st, 2009, 6:28 am
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Re: Preventing accidents

That all being said; perhaps someone should mention the fact that riding an m/c is a continuous learning experience...........all of your senses are working, all the time.........learning turns into a more visceral experience and it seems you never forget those little things...................it's usually those little things that come to your rescue when you least expect them........................yes, they can be called blessings........................
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post #17 of 21 Old Apr 21st, 2009, 6:46 am
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Re: Preventing accidents

Go read Proficient Motorcycling and Mastering the ride
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post #18 of 21 Old Apr 21st, 2009, 9:31 am Thread Starter
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Re: Preventing accidents

Its fascinating to me that the responses here so closely mirror another fascet of my life. I have taken a number of tactical training classes (yes, firearms training) and the language used for those classes and this discussion are very similar. Its about mindset. That mindset is to be viginant 100% of the time. Its to avoid allowing others to get too close. Its to prevent others from being able to do damage to you. Its to have proper gear at the ready in case all else fails. Its about training and practice.

For those who have taken some sort of tactical firearms training, do you see the similarity between what we've read here and Jeff Cooper's "Condition Yellow"?
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post #19 of 21 Old Apr 22nd, 2009, 4:49 am
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Re: Preventing accidents

Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffy109
Its fascinating to me that the responses here so closely mirror another fascet of my life. I have taken a number of tactical training classes (yes, firearms training) and the language used for those classes and this discussion are very similar. Its about mindset. That mindset is to be viginant 100% of the time. Its to avoid allowing others to get too close. Its to prevent others from being able to do damage to you. Its to have proper gear at the ready in case all else fails. Its about training and practice.

For those who have taken some sort of tactical firearms training, do you see the similarity between what we've read here and Jeff Cooper's "Condition Yellow"?
Yes, you're right! "Normal" people would call us paranoid .....But of course just because you're paranoid DOES NOT mean that "they" ARE NOT trying to kill you, right?

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #20 of 21 Old Apr 22nd, 2009, 6:35 pm
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Re: Preventing accidents

Quote:
Originally Posted by XMagnaRider
+1 on David L. Hough, "Proficient Motorcycling, 2nd Edition." The 2nd edition has more up-to-date data and statistics.
When you are done reading that, try More Proficient Motorcycling by the same author.
+2

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post #21 of 21 Old Apr 27th, 2009, 11:20 am
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Re: Preventing accidents

I ride like I'm invisible - meaning, I assume that no one can see me.

I have 50 watt bulbs in my moto lights - and when I see a cage (or anyone else) preparing to turn from a signal, stop light whatever, I rock gently to add a little side-to-side motion with the lights to gain extra attention. I actually do that whenever I want to direct a little extra attention my way. Side note: really pisses of pillion if I do that when she's in bed...

When I am at a stop, I leave bike in first gear, with room to escape, should the DA coming up behind me not see me in time. I also regularly release barkes, and re-apply them to allow my flashing brake modulator light to get their attention.

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