Valve Stem Failure = Disaster - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 45 Old Sep 3rd, 2008, 9:29 pm Thread Starter
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Valve Stem Failure = Disaster

Thought I'd post this so everyone could see.
This is the valve stem that nearly killed Lindy and Myself.
I can't even begin to say how lucky we are to be alive. If there had been anything to hit, or if we'd have been passing a truck we'd be dead.

If you have any of these on your bike. Please get them off immediately.




Take Care.

John
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post #2 of 45 Old Sep 3rd, 2008, 9:35 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Valve Stem Failure = Disaster

Get them off Immediately,

I crack myself up..

JOhn

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post #3 of 45 Old Sep 3rd, 2008, 9:48 pm
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Re: Valve Stem Failure = Disaster

I saw those stems on A&S's website. It stated that they are for checking/filling only. I've seen angled stems on GWs, but they have some sort of "fence" welded onto the wheel to keep the stems from bending and breaking. Centrifugal force would cause those stems to really bend.

Glad to hear you came through this. Hope you heal quickly.

Lee
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post #4 of 45 Old Sep 3rd, 2008, 11:37 pm
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Re: Valve Stem Failure = Disaster

Replace the stems at EVERY tire change. I had the stock stem go on the way home from my first rear tire change. Thankfully it went just when I pulled into the garage. Pulled the wheel off and asked the dealer why in the hell they did not change the stem. The reply was (you didn't go over the parts and buy one). For the buck and some change always replace them with every new tire.....

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post #5 of 45 Old Sep 4th, 2008, 12:30 am
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Re: Valve Stem Failure = Disaster

3rd set of tires, safe as hell being the sealing portion is on the INSIDE of rim and cannot be pulled threw like shown by original poster.
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post #6 of 45 Old Sep 4th, 2008, 5:43 am
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Re: Valve Stem Failure = Disaster

Seeing that those stems have rubber mounts, they should be replaced with every new tire.

I use the stems that motorhead pictured. These are much better.
However they weigh a ton when counter balancing them.
Also, I found that they don't exactly fit the BMW front wheel.

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post #7 of 45 Old Sep 4th, 2008, 6:41 am
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Re: Valve Stem Failure = Disaster

Quote:
Originally Posted by Motomadman
Replace the stems at EVERY tire change. I had the stock stem go on the way home from my first rear tire change. Thankfully it went just when I pulled into the garage. Pulled the wheel off and asked the dealer why in the hell they did not change the stem. The reply was (you didn't go over the parts and buy one). For the buck and some change always replace them with every new tire.....
I got a new front tire put on by BMW of Salt Lake at CCR. I watched as "Z" changed the stem without me asking for it. It was included in the $25.00 service charge to pull the wheel, mount and balance, and put the wheel back on. That's what I call good service.

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post #8 of 45 Old Sep 4th, 2008, 7:00 am
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Re: Valve Stem Failure = Disaster

Just a reminder that those are not the only valve stems failing. There is a federal recall out on millions of them. Installing solid metal stems during your next tire change can be the best $10.00 you ever spend.

http://blogs.consumerreports.org/saf...stem-reca.html

I recently installed a Smarttire system. It is scary to watch the rear tire temperature. Two up on a hot day it goes to 180 degrees. That is after increasing the pressure to 52 pounds. I am not sure how accurately it shows the real tire temperature. But first thing in the AM it reads the exact ambient temperature. The front tire never gets above 130. I don't think that regular automotive rubber valve stems are designed to run at 180 degrees for hours on in.

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post #9 of 45 Old Sep 4th, 2008, 8:39 am
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Re: Valve Stem Failure = Disaster

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang
I recently installed a Smarttire system. It is scary to watch the rear tire temperature. Two up on a hot day it goes to 180 degrees. That is after increasing the pressure to 52 pounds. I am not sure how accurately it shows the real tire temperature. But first thing in the AM it reads the exact ambient temperature. The front tire never gets above 130. I don't think that regular automotive rubber valve stems are designed to run at 180 degrees for hours on in.
Just curious
I understand that the "overall" consensus is to run the higher tire pressures,
a couple of years ago my wife and I took a trip that was to last several months
http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showthre...=buffalo+roams
we were fully loaded and I was pulling a Bushtec trailer,

almost immediately I started noticing my rear tire running very hot (48/42psi) this continued for several days
until I brought the tire pressure down to (42/37 psi)
one of the things I noticed was the "sway" in the trailer was gone
and my entire "rig" handled better,

I know this subject has been greatly debated and my intention is not to re-open this debate,
I'm going to run my tires at the lower pressures,
y'all can do whatever you want to.

Rather my question to Wolfgang or anybody else running the smartire system is
have any of y'all ever tried running at lower pressures
and how does this affect the related tire temperatures?


Hans
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post #10 of 45 Old Sep 4th, 2008, 9:07 am
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Re: Valve Stem Failure = Disaster

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee510
I saw those stems on A&S's website. It stated that they are for checking/filling only. I've seen angled stems on GWs, but they have some sort of "fence" welded onto the wheel to keep the stems from bending and breaking. Centrifugal force would cause those stems to really bend.

Glad to hear you came through this. Hope you heal quickly.
The valve stem on the A&S site is an extension that is meant to be temporarily mounted - it is not the same stem as shown in the above photos. Made by Wudo. I've got one and have used it for years, does the trick without busting your knuckles.
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post #11 of 45 Old Sep 4th, 2008, 11:15 am
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Re: Valve Stem Failure = Disaster

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverBuffalo

Rather my question to Wolfgang or anybody else running the smartire system is
have any of y'all ever tried running at lower pressures
and how does this affect the related tire temperatures?
I will try a lower pressure just to test the effect. Common wisdom would be that the temperature goes up, but I am open to try.

Wolfgang

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post #12 of 45 Old Sep 4th, 2008, 12:51 pm
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Re: Valve Stem Failure = Disaster

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang
I will try a lower pressure just to test the effect. Common wisdom would be that the temperature goes up, but I am open to try.
I always carry a no touch infrared temp sensor when I'm touring so that I can spot check the bike and trailer pressures when I get gas. It takes all of 20 seconds. I pretty much have a baseline established so that if a tire is starting to deflate from a slow leak I'll know in advance.

In my experience the lower the tire pressure the temps climb dramatically... about the highest I've ever seen is 150 on the rear and 120 on the front at 48 and 42 psi. Measurements taken on the "shady" side of the tire.

I've measured 173F on a vinyl seat! ...and for comparison asphalt usually comes in at 155F or so with the sun overhead on a 95F day....
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post #13 of 45 Old Sep 4th, 2008, 1:35 pm
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Re: Valve Stem Failure = Disaster

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang
I recently installed a Smarttire system. It is scary to watch the rear tire temperature. Two up on a hot day it goes to 180 degrees. That is after increasing the pressure to 52 pounds. I am not sure how accurately it shows the real tire temperature. But first thing in the AM it reads the exact ambient temperature. The front tire never gets above 130. I don't think that regular automotive rubber valve stems are designed to run at 180 degrees for hours on in.
The ALL METAL valves stems have actually been a good thing, I also use the Smartire system. The on rim sensors mount 180* from stems making tire heavy opposite stems, the METAL stems counter this offset weight bringing tire assembly very close to a perfect balance. Only a small amount of add-on weight has been required too balance

As for temps, seen @ 185 rear / 150 front running BS 020 & Av-45 tires two up on the open road running 75ish at 42/48 pressures.

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post #14 of 45 Old Sep 4th, 2008, 1:56 pm
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Re: Valve Stem Failure = Disaster

According to the dealer, the valve stems are not normally replaced when the bike has the TPM option, because the TPM is integrated into the valve. I learned this when I got my first set of replacement tires.
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post #15 of 45 Old Sep 4th, 2008, 6:38 pm
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Re: Valve Stem Failure = Disaster

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonKMiller
I always carry a no touch infrared temp sensor
Hmmm, nice farkle,
where do we get one and how much does it cost?


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post #16 of 45 Old Sep 4th, 2008, 8:03 pm
 
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Re: Valve Stem Failure = Disaster

I just replaced a rear stem last week. It's not only due to what type of stem you have but how rough you are when you fill up with air. If you flex the stem, take the air on and off to check the level just that flexing can cause a crack and leak.
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post #17 of 45 Old Sep 4th, 2008, 8:11 pm
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Re: Valve Stem Failure = Disaster

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverBuffalo
Hmmm, nice farkle,
where do we get one and how much does it cost?
This isn't like mine but what a great price and MUCH smaller. I bought mine a couple of years ago for about $50.00!

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=93983




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post #18 of 45 Old Sep 4th, 2008, 8:31 pm
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Re: Valve Stem Failure = Disaster

Quote:
Originally Posted by btruex373
I just replaced a rear stem last week. It's not only due to what type of stem you have but how rough you are when you fill up with air. If you flex the stem, take the air on and off to check the level just that flexing can cause a crack and leak.
That's a REALLY good point.

I've owned about 30 motorcycles in 40 years and I've NEVER had a rubber valve stem fail. Only a few flats and never a catastrophic tire failure.

I loathe to say this, but maybe - just maybe - BMW engineers have a REASON for using rubber stems? ...and I don't believe for a second that cost is a factor when you are talking about such a minor part that has such a high safety factor involved.

Anyone had an all metal valve fail?


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post #19 of 45 Old Sep 4th, 2008, 8:41 pm
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Re: Valve Stem Failure = Disaster

I'm thinking the tire vibration and acceleration/deceleration worked the rubber part until it failed. You then have the angle of moment caused by the angled design...

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post #20 of 45 Old Sep 4th, 2008, 9:59 pm
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Re: Valve Stem Failure = Disaster

In my 40 years in the business rubber valve stems never failed. Until recently when they started coming into the US by the container load from China. None of the OEM stems have failed, only the ones sold by mass merchandisers bought for a few pennies less... Maybe it's a lesson for some.

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post #21 of 45 Old Sep 5th, 2008, 7:18 am
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Re: Valve Stem Failure = Disaster

I've had my only failure this summer. It was a straight stem. I have always assumed you got new stems with a new tire from my auto experiences. I'll make sure from now on. I use a bleeder type air guage so I just shoot some air in and then bleed some off. Less hassle with the stem that way.....

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post #22 of 45 Old Sep 5th, 2008, 1:46 pm
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Re: Valve Stem Failure = Disaster

I bought some of the right-angle valves for my RT and my tyre dealer refused to fit them. . He said it was a lot of weight to have to counter-balance and if a balance weight came off (It happens) the imbalance would be too severe and could cause an accident. He would not fit them as he would be liable even if I'd told him to.
I usually use a removable adaptor, over-inflate a bit and then adjust back down after it's removed. New valves every time .


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post #23 of 45 Old Sep 5th, 2008, 3:37 pm
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Re: Valve Stem Failure = Disaster

WHERE
DO
WE
GET
THESE
PARTS
THAT
HAVE
BEEN
MADE
IN
THE
United States of America... or one of our real allies?

...............
J.M.J...
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post #24 of 45 Old Sep 5th, 2008, 4:44 pm
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Re: Valve Stem Failure = Disaster

What size hole does the LT have? So if I wanted to order a 90 degree stem that wasn't metal.
Here are some I found
http://www.motowheels.com/italian/myProducts.cfm?parentcategoryid=405|Misc.%20%26%20 Universal&productID=3371&showDetail=1&categoryID=405

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post #25 of 45 Old Sep 5th, 2008, 9:11 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Valve Stem Failure = Disaster

My tire guy today put a NICE 90 degree stem on the wheel. Two bolts on the back side. All metal. Flanges, Gaskets, Washers, nothing to flex or wear out. $6.50 Looks like it's worth it...I didn't ask him to do it, he just put it on...I was just gonna get a good old rubber straight one...

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I sure hope it's better if it ever goes flat than the Pirelli was...

I just hope it never goes flat.. That was NO fun....

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post #26 of 45 Old Sep 9th, 2008, 11:33 am
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Re: Valve Stem Failure = Disaster

Well, Wolfgang, the turkey has come home to roost with Discount Tire http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/home.doI took the wifes ML in to fix a slow leak (Aug 08). They responded that the car had been fitted with a set of defective Valve stems when we last got a set of tires, and that they needed to replace them...so all four tires came off and new stems installed. No charge for them or the tire fix, of course.

His quote was, "We got a batch of bad stems during the period (2007) your tires were installed." Dono any more.

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post #27 of 45 Old Sep 9th, 2008, 7:47 pm
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Re: Valve Stem Failure = Disaster

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonKMiller
I always carry a no touch infrared temp sensor when I'm touring so that I can spot check the bike and trailer pressures when I get gas. It takes all of 20 seconds.
Thanks for the great idea Ron,
I just happened by Harbour Freight this afternoon
and they had this little "goody" in their display case, another "gadjet" I just couldn't live without.

I'll be vary-ing my tire pressures
and recording the related temperatures for a while,
I'll post the resulting findings when I get it all figured out.

Meanwhile I'm having fun with my "new toy",
the Heineken in my fridge is at 39 degrees.


http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...unction=Search item # 96451
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2002 K1200LTE
"Silver Buffalo" Totaled 5/06
2005 LT
"Esperanza"
BushtecGenesisTrailer
"Our preferred long distance carrier"



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post #28 of 45 Old Sep 9th, 2008, 8:13 pm
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Re: Valve Stem Failure = Disaster

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverBuffalo
Thanks for the great idea Ron,
I just happened by Harbour Freight this afternoon
and they had this little "goody" in their display case, another "gadjet" I just couldn't live without.

I'll be vary-ing my tire pressures
and recording the related temperatures for a while,
I'll post the resulting findings when I get it all figured out.

Meanwhile I'm having fun with my "new toy",
the Heineken in my fridge is at 39 degrees.


http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...unction=Search item # 96451

Yep, also great for figuring out my wife's PMS temperature - I just point it at her forehead and if it's over 150F I go for a looonnnnnggg ride.


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post #29 of 45 Old Sep 9th, 2008, 8:15 pm
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Re: Valve Stem Failure = Disaster

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjessen
Well, Wolfgang, the turkey has come home to roost with Discount Tire http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/home.doI took the wifes ML in to fix a slow leak (Aug 08). They responded that the car had been fitted with a set of defective Valve stems when we last got a set of tires, and that they needed to replace them...so all four tires came off and new stems installed. No charge for them or the tire fix, of course.

His quote was, "We got a batch of bad stems during the period (2007) your tires were installed." Dono any more.
Discount Tires must have been the largest buyer of the Chinese valve stems. We did not use any, but if we run across a customers car with the issue we replace them for free. I don't want a car to leave our dealership and have a flat tire or even an accident shortly thereafter. It's just not right and bad PR.

Wolfgang

K1200LT 1999 Champaign SOLD
R1100RS 1994 Teal SOLD
R1150RT 2003 Blue (Sold)
R1100RT 1997 Blue


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post #30 of 45 Old Sep 9th, 2008, 9:32 pm
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Re: Valve Stem Failure = Disaster

I wonder--could this temperature sensor be used to monitor/predict final drive failure?

'02 Silver R1150RT

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post #31 of 45 Old Sep 10th, 2008, 4:16 pm
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Re: Valve Stem Failure = Disaster

Quote:
Originally Posted by tumbleweed
I wonder--could this temperature sensor be used to monitor/predict final drive failure?
Good question, it could certainly be used to monitor the temperature of the final drive or any other part of the motorcycle,

I suppose once you've got a baseline temp range of a "healthy" final drive established you could predict failure if it suddenly started running hotter than usual,

but that would take dedicated and constant monitoring.

As with any "new toy" I've checked everything around the house etc,
I found a ceiling fan motor in my garage running @ 135 degrees
(Guess that explains why it's noisy) a new fan will probably reduce my power bill by what I paid for the meter.


Hans
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post #32 of 45 Old Sep 10th, 2008, 5:47 pm
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Re: Valve Stem Failure = Disaster

Incidentally, just FYI, you should note that these optical pyrometers gives a read-out of temperature by averaging the temperatures of everything within a circular area. The size of that circle is a function of how far the target is from the meter.

Hans, I am fairly sure that the one that you had just bought is a 1:10 meter, which means that when the target is 10 feet away, the spot is 1 foot in diameter, and the read-out is the average temperature of everything within that 1-foot circle. The further you are away, the larger that circle gets in direct proportion to the distance. The manual should give you this information.

The point is that, most likely the temperature of that fan motor that you had read is probably higher than the reading being shown on the meter, unless you took the reading really close to it! It is a really neat device to have though. I have had one of these thing for quite sometimes now. The one that I have is a 1:6 meter, but it also costs quite a bit more than what you had paid, and I often use it in my work as an engineer.

Pad. Gajajiva
Solon, OH, USA

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post #33 of 45 Old Sep 10th, 2008, 6:58 pm
 
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Re: Valve Stem Failure = Disaster

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverBuffalo
Good question, it could certainly be used to monitor the temperature of the final drive or any other part of the motorcycle,

I suppose once you've got a baseline temp range of a "healthy" final drive established you could predict failure if it suddenly started running hotter than usual,

but that would take dedicated and constant monitoring.

As with any "new toy" I've checked everything around the house etc,
I found a ceiling fan motor in my garage running @ 135 degrees
(Guess that explains why it's noisy) a new fan will probably reduce my power bill by what I paid for the meter.

I think it was John Bowles who had one of those on a ride and was hitting all our final drives at breaks....I'm sure he'll chime in. I don't know what the temps were or if there was any significant difference between the model years ????

Mike
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post #34 of 45 Old Sep 28th, 2008, 8:54 pm
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Re: Valve Stem Failure = Disaster

John, I don't know whether I should reply to your thread (as I'm doing now) or start a new thread on the same topic, but we had a valve stem failure just last night, with THE EXACT SAME valve stem you show in your original post. I'm copying your picture here so others can benefit from your accident, and our inconvenience.




I checked the tire pressures before we left for the day, adding a few pounds to the rear tire because it was low and because I wanted to take it up to 48 psi two-up. When we left the restaurant 3 hours later I knew something was wrong; pulled over to check the rear tire and it was HOT, and no pressure registered on the tire gauge.

We filled up the rear tire at a friendly neighbor's and rode carefully home, refilling the tire at every little town's gas station along the way. In the back of my mind I had a nagging suspicion that the valve stem issue had been discussed recently on this site. It didn't take long to find this thread, and now I'm feeling a little sick call that I didn't call for a tow and a ride home last night.

Long story short, we had a new valve stem installed -- an all-metal valve stem. The tire was due to be replaced anyway, and the new one arrives Wednesday.

Thanks for bringing this problem to our attention. For all of you who have this valve stem installed: change it.

Howard Schisler
2015 BMW K1600GTL
2009 BMW K1200LT - 60k miles
2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
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post #35 of 45 Old Sep 28th, 2008, 9:26 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Valve Stem Failure = Disaster

Glad you got home ok Howard, And I'm also glad the LT has decently rated tires on it... I've got some Avon's on my CLC now.. Hopefully we'll fare better if we have another issue.. I have a good stem on mine now as well.

See, you can run the LT two up with a flat and not have it throw you like a mule..

Lindy say's hey and she's glad things worked out. And hey to Caitlin as well..

John & Lindy..

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post #36 of 45 Old Sep 29th, 2008, 7:29 am
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Re: Valve Stem Failure = Disaster

Me too! Just responding to the rubber tire valve failure question. It was a while ago and I can't remember the age of tire or if it had been replaced, so response is simply a slow valve failure.

Long story short: Symptom was a front tire wobble at very slow speed, smooth ride above 15-20 MPH. (from memory of a previous thread 2 years ago) Initially shop diagnosed the problem as front dampener failure ( it was loose and not working) reattached it after trying to sell me a new one and I rode off. Same low speed problem, front wobble, but smooth at riding speed.

Got home, after ride of about 100 miles and back tire was flat! Added air, noticed valve rubber leaking and then had valve replaced with new metal one. Problem fixed.

Dano
Tampa, Fl.

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post #37 of 45 Old Sep 29th, 2008, 5:58 pm
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Re: Valve Stem Failure = Disaster

I got a recall letter in the mail to bring in my car and truck to Discount Tires to have the valve stems replaced. They are recalling stems made by Dill Air Controls. Already had a failure on my bike this summer...........

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post #38 of 45 Old Oct 1st, 2008, 10:31 am
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Re: Valve Stem Failure = Disaster

Should those of us who have the metal valve stems replace them each time the tire is replaced?
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post #39 of 45 Old Oct 1st, 2008, 12:54 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Valve Stem Failure = Disaster

Depends on what you've got.. If they're the bolt in type that have gasket's and flanges and bolt thru the wheel, you're probably fine for a few tire changes.
They're meant to be permanent. Now I guess that depends on what your definition of "permanent" is...

If it's one like in the pix here, Go get it changed now...

John

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post #40 of 45 Old Oct 1st, 2008, 1:55 pm
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Re: Valve Stem Failure = Disaster

I had those exact same stems fail on my FJR. The rear one I chalked up to bad luck at the time (big mistake). The front failed at 80 mph on the freeway which was NOT fun, I can tell you.

From now on, it's these bad boys or nothing:



Available here

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post #41 of 45 Old Oct 1st, 2008, 2:11 pm
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Re: Valve Stem Failure = Disaster

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwhd
I had those exact same stems fail on my FJR. The rear one I chalked up to bad luck at the time (big mistake). The front failed at 80 mph on the freeway which was NOT fun, I can tell you.

From now on, it's these bad boys or nothing:



Available here
I won't use those because the nut is inside the tire. Probably never have come loose,but just the same,I prefer the nut outside.

dan
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post #42 of 45 Old Oct 1st, 2008, 5:16 pm
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Re: Valve Stem Failure = Disaster

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanMartin
I won't use those because the nut is inside the tire. Probably never have come loose,but just the same,I prefer the nut outside.

dan
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post #43 of 45 Old Oct 1st, 2008, 8:28 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Valve Stem Failure = Disaster

The one on mine is double nutted...



Couldn't resist..

John

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post #44 of 45 Old Oct 1st, 2008, 8:36 pm
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Re: Valve Stem Failure = Disaster

Quote:
Originally Posted by budzee
Should those of us who have the metal valve stems replace them each time the tire is replaced?
The shop that installed my new metal valve stem said it would last 10 years. ... is that possible?

By the way, John: just home this evening with a new tire (and with that new metal valve stem). A new tire is so sweet, and it always amazes me how much more tread is on the new one!

Howard Schisler
2015 BMW K1600GTL
2009 BMW K1200LT - 60k miles
2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
AMA, IBA, BMW MOA. CCRs: Braselton 2006, Osage Beach 2007, Duluth 2012


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post #45 of 45 Old Oct 5th, 2008, 11:36 am
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Re: Valve Stem Failure = Disaster

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverBuffalo
Hmmm, nice farkle,
where do we get one and how much does it cost?
Here is where I bought my last 2. One for the toolbox and one for in the house. The one from the toolbox goes in the bike for trips. They work great. I bought my first one back around 1993 for almost $300. They were worth the money back then. No laser though. Make sure you read the instructions so that you understand how the beam works.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=96451

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