To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question. - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 48 Old Aug 18th, 2008, 12:31 am Thread Starter
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To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

So over the weekend the thread began again over whether it should be compulsory to wear helmets on motorcycles....

My humble opinion follows:

Compulsory or not, I value my contributions to my community, the love of my family and friends, and the obligations I have made to my peers more than any statement I can make by catching metal objects with my skull or seeing how quickly my flesh can be ground down to bone. If I want the wind running through my hair, I can get that effect from running, walking, or even riding around with the windows down and sunroof open. And the local butcher shop has plenty of ground up bones and meat to satiate the need for the visuals and sound effects fix.

Too many of us, choosing to opt out of wearing the most basic of safety equipment, has put ourselves in harms way, and some of us have even paid the ultimate price or have permanently injured ourselves as a result. For what? A dream? A fantasy? A right? Pride? Vanity?

We have our own experiences with ER docs and nurses... and recent posts have suggested if we're injured on a bike and get care in an ER... they might not treat us so well on account of the fact we were on a bike. Perhaps that is true... and why might that be? Resentment? How many scrambled body parts have they collected from motorcyclists they've scraped up from the pavement? To make matters more aggravating.. how many of those bikers... sustained injuries even the most basic of safety equipment would have mitigated or prevented from occurring?

Stupid is what stupid does. Not wearing ATGATT, is asking for Darwin to come by and hand us an award we so justly deserve but haven't received yet. By the way, there are no 2nd time Darwin Award winners.

To wear or not to wear... there is no question.

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post #2 of 48 Old Aug 18th, 2008, 1:25 am
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Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.



No offense, and FWIW, I generally share your opinion. However, it seems that it doesn't go 2 days on any MC board without this topic being debated.

..."blah, blah, blah, ATGATT, blah, you're a reckless moron"...
..."well blah blah blah, the King of England can't barge in here and tell me to wear a helmet"...

While we're discussing it, with what kind of oil do you fill your tires?

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post #3 of 48 Old Aug 18th, 2008, 4:35 am
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Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

Yup this topic has been debated here a lot. I stay out of it. Add a little fuel to the fire is, should it be a law????

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post #4 of 48 Old Aug 18th, 2008, 5:28 am
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Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

What are we debating again?

Abortion?

That is what it seems like, at times.

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post #5 of 48 Old Aug 18th, 2008, 6:49 am Thread Starter
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Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

What better way to start the week than with a little worn thin redundancy! Have a great week guys!

Seriously, no morons on this site that I've ever noticed--lots of pundits though...which is good.. keeps the discourse alive and vibrant.


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post #6 of 48 Old Aug 18th, 2008, 8:53 am
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Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

"While we're discussing it, with what kind of oil do you fill your tires?"

If you really have to know, I use Amsair.

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post #7 of 48 Old Aug 18th, 2008, 8:58 am
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Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

Amsair....now thats funny.


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post #8 of 48 Old Aug 18th, 2008, 9:17 am
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Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

This is a serious topic. If the price of oil is causing the price of tires to go up, it seems like we could turn in our used engine oil to metzler and get a break on new tires. Of course, if the tire were made with used ****** it would have to cost extra because of the independent research supporting its superiority.
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post #9 of 48 Old Aug 18th, 2008, 9:42 am
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Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

Now... if we could just figure out a way to to use the used tires for head protection and oil generation we would be ahead of the game...

Helmets, to me, are part of the Darwinian model.

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post #10 of 48 Old Aug 18th, 2008, 10:15 am
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Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alindsay
"While we're discussing it, with what kind of oil do you fill your tires?"

If you really have to know, I use Amsair.
I use Mobair1

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post #11 of 48 Old Aug 18th, 2008, 10:38 am
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Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by azpilot06
While we're discussing it, with what kind of oil do you fill your tires?
You're trying to start an Oil thread arn't you? go stand in the corner of the room, you know those are not allowed round here

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post #12 of 48 Old Aug 18th, 2008, 10:59 am
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Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

I'm personally shocked that any of you would use anything other than BMW-branded tire oil. BMW tire oil is made exclusively from German dinosaurs, such as the Boxersaurus and the Flyingbrickoraptor.

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post #13 of 48 Old Aug 18th, 2008, 1:55 pm Thread Starter
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Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

is tire oil totally dehydrogenated or does it have various grades? Like VFT, WTFT, or WTFDIG?

Robert
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post #14 of 48 Old Aug 18th, 2008, 5:07 pm
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Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

All I know is that it's trans-fat free.

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post #15 of 48 Old Aug 19th, 2008, 3:38 am
 
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Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

Wearing helmets is a MUST! (And recuired by law for motorcycles, where I come from)

Just like riding a bicycle, you always wear a helmet. Vanity is when you are not wearing one.
Same with seatbelts in cars wich is also a MUST. (also recuired by law)

Please wear helmets, if not for you then for those who love you


Here we get bashed by other riders when we are not wearing ATGATT, and some clubs even ban people who dont take safety serious.

The helmet is the most important safety item to have on your bike...that and brakes
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post #16 of 48 Old Aug 19th, 2008, 12:29 pm
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Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

If I am driving my car and have an accident with a motorcycle where I am at fault, does my financial liability end when the injuries are shown to be because of a lack of helmet and proper clothing or am I responsible for injuries which would probably have not occurred had the rider used common sense? It seems to me that this is the real issue besides the cost to society. Conversely, should a liable driver be responsible for injuries that occur when a seatbelt is not used and it leads to excessive injuries?
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post #17 of 48 Old Aug 19th, 2008, 4:42 pm
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Talking Here's a solution:

States can require or not require a helmet as they see fit.

I propose that states require helmets but offer a no-fee, conditional priviledge to ride without a helmet IF AND ONLY IF the rider has "Organ Donor" checked on their driver's license.
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post #18 of 48 Old Aug 19th, 2008, 7:23 pm
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Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

Can we please tie this discussion in with abortion, gun-control, and gay marriage?

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post #19 of 48 Old Aug 19th, 2008, 8:50 pm
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Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

I'm tired of all the whining in every other post about helmets and gear. I'll just do what I want and let you people debate if I'm evil, a social deviate, a burden on society, mentally deficient, or just someone that likes to do what makes him happy. My last post on this subject.
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post #20 of 48 Old Aug 19th, 2008, 10:06 pm Thread Starter
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Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

Does anyone know where I can find some Vegemite? I hear it's a great substitute for tire oil.
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post #21 of 48 Old Aug 19th, 2008, 11:14 pm
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Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by azpilot06
Can we please tie this discussion in with abortion, gun-control, and gay marriage?
Okay. I'll give it a try. There should be a law that says:

Both partners must wear helmets to a gay shotgun wedding, but the pregnant partner is prohibited from having an abortion until after they say, "I do".

Of course, it is a bit confusing about why they were forced into a shotgun wedding, because it is hard to figure out how the couple got pregnant in the first place. Clearly the baby couldn't be his ...er... hers.
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post #22 of 48 Old Aug 20th, 2008, 7:00 am
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Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XMagnaRider
Okay. I'll give it a try. There should be a law that says:

Both partners must wear helmets to a gay shotgun wedding, but the pregnant partner is prohibited from having an abortion until after they say, "I do".

Of course, it is a bit confusing about why they were forced into a shotgun wedding, because it is hard to figure out how the couple got pregnant in the first place. Clearly the baby couldn't be his ...er... hers.
I would much rather debate why the other Bob is an evil, mentally deficient, social deviate who is a burden on society only interested in his own happiness. Just kidding.
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post #23 of 48 Old Aug 20th, 2008, 9:11 am
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Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rkimmel2
I would much rather debate why the other Bob is an evil, mentally deficient, social deviate who is a burden on society only interested in his own happiness. Just kidding.
Bob tried to respond, but his "other Bob" alter-ego is the one that has the password to bmwlt.com, and won't share it.
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post #24 of 48 Old Apr 26th, 2010, 6:59 pm
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Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

I live in Connecticut, which is a state that doesn't require motorcylists to wear a helmet. I believe that it should be your choice. I am a certified MSF Rider Coach. Many of my friends try to bait me with this issue. What I tell them, which is what I believe, is that riding without a helmet is not the worst thing you'll ever do on a motorcycle but when you do the worst thing you can ever do on a motorcycle, the helmet may just save your life.
An aside: Many view the possibilties of a bad crash as resulting in a fatality. I recently attended the funeral of a friend who died after a really bad crash. The crash occurred in 1965. He survived in his vegetive state until 2009. His quality of life was ?????
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post #25 of 48 Old Apr 26th, 2010, 8:33 pm
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Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

I'm a ATGATT kinda a guy. Glad of it. Yesterday I was heading from Phoenix to Flagstaff on my GS with the small Darth Vader fairing when I rode though a swarm of bees at 80 mph. I took about a dozen hits to the helmet and and several more to my legs and arms. Even through protective jacket and pants those little suckers stung.

I felt really bad for the Harley dude and dudette who I had just passed. They were in de rigueur Harley attire i.e. no helmets, T-shirts, and jeans.

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post #26 of 48 Old Apr 27th, 2010, 3:42 am
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Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

That's the "problem" with freedom: how do you calculate the cost?

The cost to society when Mr Pirate eats shit with no protective gear. Same with Mr Speed Racer when he's racing at double the speed limit and not wearing a seat belt. Everyone's insurance and medical costs increase.

Any different than the dude that smokes to much and eats a lot of fast food? Not really. All time bombs just waiting to explode.

Is stupidity the cost of freedom? Or just a small price to pay for freedom? Probably depends on your perspective.

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #27 of 48 Old Apr 27th, 2010, 10:46 am
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Wink Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayjacobson
That's the "problem" with freedom: how do you calculate the cost?

The cost to society when Mr Pirate eats shit with no protective gear. Same with Mr Speed Racer when he's racing at double the speed limit and not wearing a seat belt. Everyone's insurance and medical costs increase.

Any different than the dude that smokes to much and eats a lot of fast food? Not really. All time bombs just waiting to explode.

Is stupidity the cost of freedom? Or just a small price to pay for freedom? Probably depends on your perspective.
Jay, I hate it when you make sense!

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post #28 of 48 Old Apr 27th, 2010, 11:00 am
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Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

Good subject to resurrect in case the forum gets stale. Having lost a cousin to nothing more than a sub dural Hematoma (brain bruise), and a friend to severe head & body trauma (asphalt: the belt sander of the unprotected), I count myself very blessed to have survived my "invincible days." While I defend the right of those who ride to decide, I choose ATTGAT.

Jay, maybe stupidity isn't the price of freedom as much as it is the legacy self imposed ignorance.

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post #29 of 48 Old Apr 27th, 2010, 4:54 pm
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Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zippy_gg
Jay, I hate it when you make sense!
It was purely accidental! What does the village idiot and patrol moron know about "sense?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by BennyBob
....Jay, maybe stupidity isn't the price of freedom as much as it is the legacy self imposed ignorance.
"They" probably just got some bad information off the internet.

Let that be a lesson to us!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #30 of 48 Old Apr 28th, 2010, 12:31 am
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Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

If our government REALLY wanted to save some lives they would start enforcing existing DUI laws and put some real teeth into the penalties. There were more than 16,000 alcohol related fatalities in the US in 2006.

Making laws to require wearing motorcycle helmets and seatbelts would make much more sense if it were also against the law to smoke cigarettes and overeat to the point of obesity. But that would be too hard, kind of like what has happened with illegal drugs.

Allowing insurance companies to deny payments for selective 'risky behaviors' would soon be a nightmare for us and a lawyer's dream. May as well submit that DNA profile now.

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post #31 of 48 Old Apr 28th, 2010, 12:46 am
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Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpallen
If our government REALLY wanted to save some lives they would start enforcing existing DUI laws and put some real teeth into the penalties. There were more than 16,000 alcohol related fatalities in the US in 2006.

Making laws to require wearing motorcycle helmets and seatbelts would make much more sense if it were also against the law to smoke cigarettes and overeat to the point of obesity. But that would be too hard, kind of like what has happened with illegal drugs.

Allowing insurance companies to deny payments for selective 'risky behaviors' would soon be a nightmare for us and a lawyer's dream. May as well submit that DNA profile now.
Yes, all the "big-brother" laws are nothing more than symbolism over substance, feel good, plastic banana, phoney bologna, good time rock and roll, do nothing, tom foolery. Why have a helmet law, for example, when a salad bowl with flimsy straps counts as a "helmet?!"

You would be surprised how far you could go with the "risky" behavior, non-sense....

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #32 of 48 Old Apr 28th, 2010, 2:56 pm
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Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

Ok, I confess. I like to lose the helmet on nice days when riding in rural areas. I see the helmet as smart to have, but not always fun to have. Shame on me. I could care less about the politics, let those who ride decide, etc. Sometimes you just have to do what feels good.
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post #33 of 48 Old Apr 28th, 2010, 8:07 pm
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Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by macman56
Ok, I confess. I like to lose the helmet on nice days when riding in rural areas. I see the helmet as smart to have, but not always fun to have. Shame on me. I could care less about the politics, let those who ride decide, etc. Sometimes you just have to do what feels good.
No need to "confess" or apologize, Mac. What's the difference if you wear no helmet or wear a plastic salad bowl on your head?

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #34 of 48 Old Apr 29th, 2010, 10:54 am
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Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

The whole helmet debate thing has already been beat to death so why start another debate?

According to the original post all those who are stupid enough to ride without a helmet
are going to kill themselves or spend the remainder of their lives as a vegetable,
that seems like it's punishment enough for them,

what we really need to concentrate on is how to properly punish those who start helmet debate threads!

It sounds an awful lot like religion,
you've got all the answers!
and are self righteous enough to insist that "they" all follow your example.

So that about "sums it up" then, all helmet wearing faithfuls must be going to heaven
and the "vain" ones are going to go straight to hell.

For what it's worth: I always wear my helmet,
but I don't need anybody to tell me how I should live!

If you're pro helmet: wear one
If you're anti-abortion: don't have one
If you're anti gun: don't own one
etc. etc. etc.

Live your own life, mind your own business,
and stop trying to force "your ideas" on other people!


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post #35 of 48 Old Apr 29th, 2010, 1:55 pm
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Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverBuffalo
Live your own life, mind your own business,
and stop trying to force "your ideas" on other people!
Geez, Hans, we never get to have any fun! I want to know what kind of helmet to wear, radial or bias ply, and which oil to use to prevent ear chaffing.

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post #36 of 48 Old Apr 29th, 2010, 3:21 pm
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Talking Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

And if you don't like helmet threads ... don't read them? Just askin'...
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post #37 of 48 Old Apr 29th, 2010, 11:27 pm
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Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverBuffalo
....What we really need to concentrate on is how to properly punish those who start helmet debate threads!....


Let that be a lesson to us!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #38 of 48 Old Apr 29th, 2010, 11:52 pm
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Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

Hans, I believe you would be a good Supreme Court Judge. No nonsense, I like it....

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post #39 of 48 Old Apr 30th, 2010, 8:38 am
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Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razmataz
Hans, I believe you would be a good Supreme Court Judge. No nonsense, I like it....
Thanks, that's quite a compliment,
maybe a hundred or so years ago! I've got no tolerance for "today's political correctness"

I can see me "riding the plains".

A bible in one hand and a six gun in da other,
with a hangin rope on my hoss...............yee haw.


Hans
St. Petersburg FL

2002 K1200LTE
"Silver Buffalo" Totaled 5/06
2005 LT
"Esperanza"
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post #40 of 48 Old Apr 30th, 2010, 10:41 am
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Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverBuffalo
....I've got no tolerance for "today's political correctness...."

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #41 of 48 Old May 2nd, 2010, 12:21 pm
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Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

I remember a couple of years ago I worked a crash where the helmet-less rider got his bell rung pretty good. I remember talking with his mother and her saying to me, she thanked "god" that he was NOT wearing a helmet, because if he was it would have broken his neck.....................I did not even try to explain that the reason his brain was bashed and the reason he was in ICU was because of the lack of protection. He did fully recover and sold his bike.

John
Florida
2004 BMW R1150R Black
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post #42 of 48 Old May 2nd, 2010, 1:07 pm
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Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

All The Gear, All The Time!


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post #43 of 48 Old May 2nd, 2010, 1:47 pm
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Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13_ver2
All The Gear, All The Time!


Lucky my chair is low to the floor!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #44 of 48 Old May 2nd, 2010, 3:05 pm
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Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hallzee
"Stay Thirsty My Friends" I use Mobair1
Ever since I saw that commercial, I've asked myself why I would want to stay thirsty.
I dunno........doesn't make sense to me.

Nuthin' to do with the topic

Discuss amongst yer selves!

BC
MOA 144103

1971 Yahama 250 (Yep that's an old two cycle street bike)
1972 Yamaha 350 (also a 2 cycle street)

1973 Yamaha 750
1983 Honda Shadow 500
2005 BMW 1200LT

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post #45 of 48 Old May 3rd, 2010, 1:58 am
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Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1635SMR
Ever since I saw that commercial, I've asked myself why I would want to stay thirsty.
I dunno........doesn't make sense to me.

Nuthin' to do with the topic

Discuss amongst yer selves!
Sometimes it's ok to go off topic!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #46 of 48 Old May 3rd, 2010, 10:53 am
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Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverBuffalo
The whole helmet debate thing has already been beat to death so why start another debate?

According to the original post all those who are stupid enough to ride without a helmet
are going to kill themselves or spend the remainder of their lives as a vegetable,
that seems like it's punishment enough for them,

what we really need to concentrate on is how to properly punish those who start helmet debate threads!

It sounds an awful lot like religion,
you've got all the answers!
and are self righteous enough to insist that "they" all follow your example.

So that about "sums it up" then, all helmet wearing faithfuls must be going to heaven
and the "vain" ones are going to go straight to hell.

For what it's worth: I always wear my helmet,
but I don't need anybody to tell me how I should live!

If you're pro helmet: wear one
If you're anti-abortion: don't have one
If you're anti gun: don't own one
etc. etc. etc.

Live your own life, mind your own business,
and stop trying to force "your ideas" on other people!

Jerry
USAF Retired
BMWOA #80289
2009 R1200GSA
1985 K100 RT-Red
2002 K1200 LTC-Silver(SOLD)
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post #47 of 48 Old May 3rd, 2010, 10:42 pm
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Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

I like the jerry Seinfeld bit on helmets. He says "the helmet laws are for brains that are functioning so poorly they don't even want to protect themselves". I always wear a helmet for my own comfort and safety, but that's my choice. I think helmet-less riders look like morons, but that's their choice. All the bugs are on my helmet instead of my face.

2006 R1200RT
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post #48 of 48 Old May 4th, 2010, 1:28 pm
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Re: To Wear or Not to Wear... That is the Question.

All I have to say is " DON'T BECOME AN ORGAN DONOR". Always wear a lid. Even a short ride without one can be your last ride. Don't leave home without it.
Now for some great summer rides.....Hope you all have a great summer.
Cheers,
Jim

1953 Ariel 350
1970 Norton Commando
1975 Honda Excel 250
1977 Kawasaki Z1000 LT
1985 Honda V65 Magna
1989 Yamaha Venture Royalle
2006 BMW K1200 LT
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