ATTGAT is cooler at 110 degrees - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 31 Old Jul 25th, 2008, 2:00 pm Thread Starter
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ATTGAT is cooler at 110 degrees

After spending a week in Monterey / Carmel area, I headed down to LA for a couple of days before returning to Colorado. Riding across the desert gave me a great opportunity to conduct an experiment. Riding at 110 degrees in the desert I tried riding in my mesh jacket and compared that to riding in just a T-shirt. I definitely felt cooler in the mesh which kept the sun and blast furnace wind directly off but still allowed good air flow. I then tried riding with my helmet visor up and sunglasses for eye protection and then with no helmet at all. Again, I felt cooler in the helmet with the visor open just enough to allow ventilation. This experiment may not achieve the same results in high humidity conditions, but in the dry desert air at over 100 degrees it was unquestionably cooler with well ventilated riding gear that protected from the sun and wind than it was when openly exposed to the elements.
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post #2 of 31 Old Jul 25th, 2008, 2:02 pm
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Re: ATTGAT is cooler at 110 degrees

What mesh gear are you using? I'm trying to decide what to buy in the way of mesh gear.

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post #3 of 31 Old Jul 25th, 2008, 3:54 pm Thread Starter
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Re: ATTGAT is cooler at 110 degrees

Bob, I have a couple of different mesh jackets but this ride was on a jacket made by Bates Custom Leathers. I like it because it has good armoring and also has leather where it is most needed for protection. The model I have is not available on their website. It was a special promotion at the Moto GP race at Laguna Seca 3 years ago.
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post #4 of 31 Old Jul 26th, 2008, 12:44 am
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Re: ATTGAT is cooler at 110 degrees

I will concur with Moot's findings. Just rode about 300 miles in southern Colorado from Antonito to Taos, NM then over to Chama, NM and back to Antonito, CO. Temp's in the mid 90s. Wore a quick dry T-shirt under a quick dry L/S shirt with a Cortech mesh jacket. I had blue jeans on under the mesh pants made by Olympia. I felt better with the L/S shirt on than with just a t-shirt. However, I might try a pair of chinos or khakis instead of blue jeans.

The chili neck wrap works just fine.

Tomorrow we'll be motoring around Moab, UT. Forecast is for a high of 100 and the RH at 12%!

And yes, we were drinking lots of water. Like the advertisement says, "Hydrate or Die!" And yes, "IF you die, we split your gear!"

Take care,
Chris

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post #5 of 31 Old Jul 26th, 2008, 1:48 am
 
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Re: ATTGAT is cooler at 110 degrees

I think conventional wisdom is that if the ambient temp is higher than body temp, cover up with solid suit with vents open. Examples usually given are Arab desert dwellers who cover up head to toe, and African hunters who do the same.
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post #6 of 31 Old Jul 26th, 2008, 2:48 am
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Re: ATTGAT is cooler at 110 degrees

I rode with black Joe Rocket Phoenix mesh gear in the summer, MUCH cooler than riding in a T shirt WHEN MOVING. Stopped though is another matter.

I had a Harley rider ask me at a stoplight how I stood the heat in the gear, and I told him that at the moment I was much hotter than he was. But when we got to moving again I would be much cooler than he would be.

Basically, when moving in vented gear, you are in the shade with a breeze blowing.

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post #7 of 31 Old Jul 26th, 2008, 5:15 am
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Re: ATTGAT is cooler at 110 degrees

You've got to try wearing a cooling vest ( google it ) underneath your (preferably) mesh jackets on HOT days.
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post #8 of 31 Old Jul 26th, 2008, 5:30 am
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Re: ATTGAT is cooler at 110 degrees

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracus
And yes, we were drinking lots of water. Like the advertisement says, "Hydrate or Die!" And yes, "IF you die, we split your gear!"
LOL...Thanks, I needed that this morning! Enjoy Moab, was there in Apr...65-75 average...very nice
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post #9 of 31 Old Jul 26th, 2008, 5:32 am
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Re: ATTGAT is cooler at 110 degrees

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moot
....Riding across the desert gave me a great opportunity to conduct an experiment. Riding at 110 degrees in the desert I tried riding in my mesh jacket and compared that to riding in just a T-shirt. I definitely felt cooler in the mesh which kept the sun and blast furnace wind directly off but still allowed good air flow. I then tried riding with my helmet visor up and sunglasses for eye protection and then with no helmet at all. Again, I felt cooler in the helmet with the visor open just enough to allow ventilation....
Nice Moot! Same results with my Motoport kevlar mesh gear. Actually COOLER with your skin fully protected.

Who would have thought the H-D boys could be so WRONG!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracus
....I had blue jeans on under the mesh pants made by Olympia. I felt better with the L/S shirt on than with just a t-shirt. However, I might try a pair of chinos or khakis instead of blue jeans....
100% nylon shorts under your riding pants will keep you a lot drier than cotton jeans.

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #10 of 31 Old Jul 26th, 2008, 6:56 am
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Re: ATTGAT is cooler at 110 degrees

I learned the secret of staying cool in the heat years ago working in the woods of northern Michigan in the summer. Always wear a long sleeve shirt as it will keep the sweat from evaporating thus cooling the body and the slightest breeze feels like an air conditioner was turned on. It also helps prevent dehydration. Thats why I wear a long sleeve T-shirt under my mesh jacket keeps me alot cooler and slows down sweat evaporation which helps prevent dehydration.

Don't forget to keep drinking water.

Pat Rourke
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post #11 of 31 Old Jul 26th, 2008, 8:12 am
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Re: ATTGAT is cooler at 110 degrees

It also helps if you get the shirt you are wearing wet before putting on your jacket. Some riders even soak their jacket in water before a ride.

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post #12 of 31 Old Jul 26th, 2008, 8:24 am
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Re: ATTGAT is cooler at 110 degrees

We figured out the ATTGATT is cooler a few years ago,

another thing (that works for me) is when riding long hot days on the LT,
I always used to keep the windshield at its lowest settings
while experimenting I found out that rather than having a blast furnace "blowing in my face"

putting the windshield all the way up (for a while) actually feels "cooler"
as I seem to get more indirect windflow from underneath.

It works although I still don't like looking "through" a windshield


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post #13 of 31 Old Jul 26th, 2008, 11:11 am
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Re: ATTGAT is cooler at 110 degrees

I also close the side air wings when the temp gets over 90 degrees. That also reduces the heat blast.

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post #14 of 31 Old Jul 26th, 2008, 1:12 pm
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Re: ATTGAT is cooler at 110 degrees

Greetings, Students!

The last week of June I brought QuickSilver home from Los Angeles via Phoenix. I rode through Palm Springs at 5:00PM QS's thermometer was reading 116 ! I had my cool vest on underneath my Joe Rocket Phoenix jacket. That combination worked well at 80 mph plus. The problem was my shins above my Sidi Vertebra boots were roasting! I could only take it for aout an hour at a time before I had to get off the freeway to cool the legs off. I couldn't find any practical way to cool my shins on the road. The tan colored jeans I wore would not hold water. I took advantage of the frequent stops to resoak the cool vest (amazing how quickly it dried out) and to drink approximately a quart of ice water at the fast food places I stopped at. (amazing how fast *I* dried out) When the elevation rose near Joshua Tree National Park and the temp dropped to around 110, the baking of my shins quit. I found when I undressed in the hotel that night I had first degree burns with blisters on my shins where I felt the burning. I'm convinced it was the pressure of the slipstream pressing my jeans up against my shins thus allowing the extremely hot air to burn my shins. Otherwise, no ill effects.

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post #15 of 31 Old Jul 26th, 2008, 1:38 pm
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Re: ATTGAT is cooler at 110 degrees

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmurphy165
Greetings, Students!

I found when I undressed in the hotel that night I had first degree burns with blisters on my shins where I felt the burning. I'm convinced it was the pressure of the slipstream pressing my jeans up against my shins thus allowing the extremely hot air to burn my shins. Otherwise, no ill effects.

Hobblin' Karl
Were you wearing mesh overpants? I find that the Mesh is a must during hot summer riding as it keeps an insulating barrier between the air and jeans.

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post #16 of 31 Old Jul 26th, 2008, 2:46 pm
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Re: ATTGAT is cooler at 110 degrees

I just picked up a Vanson Air Max III What a difference over my old First Gear Mesh Tex II. I road about 300 miles this morning with Olympia Air Glide pants, Under Armer shorts and shirt. The first half of the ride was with the First Gear the last 150 mile with Vanson. The Vanson was much cooler even with the temp 15 degrees hotter the the first part of the ride

Stevie Shreeve
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post #17 of 31 Old Jul 26th, 2008, 4:59 pm
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Re: ATTGAT is cooler at 110 degrees

Quote:
Originally Posted by rspyder
Were you wearing mesh overpants? I find that the Mesh is a must during hot summer riding as it keeps an insulating barrier between the air and jeans.
No. Just the jeans.

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post #18 of 31 Old Jul 26th, 2008, 5:12 pm
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Re: ATTGAT is cooler at 110 degrees

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverBuffalo
We figured out the ATTGATT is cooler a few years ago,

another thing (that works for me) is when riding long hot days on the LT,
I always used to keep the windshield at its lowest settings
while experimenting I found out that rather than having a blast furnace "blowing in my face"

putting the windshield all the way up (for a while) actually feels "cooler"
as I seem to get more indirect windflow from underneath.

It works although I still don't like looking "through" a windshield

I dont know how to put this without offending you, but you and I appear to be build the same (Im probably a lot bigger). either way I was wondering where you get your riding gear. I am at least a 3X in a jacket and a 50" waist for riding pants. I cant find much in the way of riding gear, especially pants.

If you are not the sizes I am I do apologize I am only judging by the picture on your avatar. For the record Im 6' 330lbs (full-on fat guy, I am what I am)

Tom
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post #19 of 31 Old Jul 26th, 2008, 5:14 pm
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Re: ATTGAT is cooler at 110 degrees

BTW your wife appears lovely, I think its a secret that the ladies deep down LOVE us big ol bears

Tom
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post #20 of 31 Old Jul 27th, 2008, 4:21 am
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Re: ATTGAT is cooler at 110 degrees

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmurphy165
No. Just the jeans.
I wear my Aerostitch Darien pants even when the temps climb. As you've found out, you still need proper leg protection at 100+.

I do convert my jacket from full-coverage to mesh, plus I swap out my gloves to maintain airflow. And if the outside temp is above body temp then I'll use a cool vest which helps at least for a while.

And I never travel without my CamelBak handy. In fact, I've taken to strapping it on the bike and leaving it there full time. Dehydrations creeps up on you, and on a moving bike can be quite deadly. Downing a lot of water only at fuel stops every 3 hours simply is not going to keep you hydrated. And avoid sugary caffeine drinks and those over-priced, over-sweetened, over-caloried "sports" drinks. A continuous supply of plain old water does the trick just fine.

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post #21 of 31 Old Jul 27th, 2008, 1:02 pm
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Re: ATTGAT is cooler at 110 degrees

Quote:
Originally Posted by ahpd1992
I dont know how to put this without offending you, but you and I appear to be build the same (Im probably a lot bigger). either way I was wondering where you get your riding gear. I am at least a 3X in a jacket and a 50" waist for riding pants. I cant find much in the way of riding gear, especially pants.

If you are not the sizes I am I do apologize I am only judging by the picture on your avatar. For the record Im 6' 330lbs (full-on fat guy, I am what I am)

Tom
Damn I look that fat?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahpd1992
BTW your wife appears lovely, I think its a secret that the ladies deep down LOVE us big ol bears

Tom
She's a sweatheart but I think you're just "buttering me up" after calling me fat.

I am a pretty big boy, 6' 270# with a size 40 waist,
strong as a bull and built like a dozer.

My riding gear is 2X long and the First gear Kilimanjaro (cold weather) and Mesh teck (warm weather) jackets fit me pretty good, also the HT overpants work well, I haven't been able to find mesh pants that fit right yet.
There have been some other threads in the past about gear for big boys,
you could try a search or maybe somebody else can elaborate.


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post #22 of 31 Old Jul 27th, 2008, 1:57 pm
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Re: ATTGAT is cooler at 110 degrees

I am 6'1" 255 and have a 40 inch waist and 32 inseam. I have the First Gear HT 2 Air overpants, but I found I had to order the size 42 waist as the 40 is a bit too tight. The velcro waistband adjust allows me to adjust to fit.

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post #23 of 31 Old Jul 27th, 2008, 2:49 pm
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Wink Re: ATTGAT is cooler at 110 degrees

Hans, I am also a big guy and I have both the Joe Rocket Phoenix mesh and the Olympia mesh pants. I use the Phoenix mesh pants as overpants for my daily work commute and at 2XL they fit just fine over my Dockers or Levis. The Olympia Air mesh in 40 work fine for my normal riding pants over shorts of liners. I can get them over Levis, but just don't for long trips.

HTH,

John
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverBuffalo
Damn I look that fat?
She's a sweatheart but I think you're just "buttering me up" after calling me fat.

I am a pretty big boy, 6' 270# with a size 40 waist,
strong as a bull and built like a dozer.

My riding gear is 2X long and the First gear Kilimanjaro (cold weather) and Mesh teck (warm weather) jackets fit me pretty good, also the HT overpants work well, I haven't been able to find mesh pants that fit right yet.
There have been some other threads in the past about gear for big boys,
you could try a search or maybe somebody else can elaborate.

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post #24 of 31 Old Jul 27th, 2008, 2:50 pm
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Re: ATTGAT is cooler at 110 degrees

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
I wear my Aerostitch Darien pants even when the temps climb. As you've found out, you still need proper leg protection at 100+.

I do convert my jacket from full-coverage to mesh, plus I swap out my gloves to maintain airflow. And if the outside temp is above body temp then I'll use a cool vest which helps at least for a while.

And I never travel without my CamelBak handy. In fact, I've taken to strapping it on the bike and leaving it there full time. Dehydrations creeps up on you, and on a moving bike can be quite deadly. Downing a lot of water only at fuel stops every 3 hours simply is not going to keep you hydrated. And avoid sugary caffeine drinks and those over-priced, over-sweetened, over-caloried "sports" drinks. A continuous supply of plain old water does the trick just fine.
Hi, Ken. If I could have had a shield to divert the furnace blast away from my shins, I might have avoided the burns. I'm still thinking about that, but it's not likely I'll be riding at speed in those conditions.

I agree with you about the necessity of hydration. I very carefully monitored my physical condition on that ride segment at the very first sign of fatigue, feeling hot, dry lips/mouth I jumped into the first exit with a fast food joint and hydrated. I also sat under the A/C vent and thoroughly cooled off. The ultimate limiting factor was how long I could stand the pork roast on my legs. I carried a liter and a half of water in the top case and was well prepared to pull over and use it if necessary.

Hopalong Karl

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'02 LTE Silver -- Retired
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post #25 of 31 Old Jul 27th, 2008, 7:34 pm
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Re: ATTGAT is cooler at 110 degrees

Quote:
Originally Posted by ahpd1992
I dont know how to put this without offending you, but you and I appear to be build the same (Im probably a lot bigger). either way I was wondering where you get your riding gear. I am at least a 3X in a jacket and a 50" waist for riding pants. I cant find much in the way of riding gear, especially pants.

If you are not the sizes I am I do apologize I am only judging by the picture on your avatar. For the record Im 6' 330lbs (full-on fat guy, I am what I am)

Tom
Tom, I am really close to your size. I'm 6'3" 320lbs. I wear 3X in jacket and 48" waist. I got my mesh gear here.

http://www.motoport.com/

They will custom fit you. It is pricey, but is high quality stuff.

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post #26 of 31 Old Jul 27th, 2008, 8:41 pm
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Re: ATTGAT is cooler at 110 degrees

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverBuffalo
Damn I look that fat?
She's a sweatheart but I think you're just "buttering me up" after calling me fat.

I am a pretty big boy, 6' 270# with a size 40 waist,
strong as a bull and built like a dozer.

My riding gear is 2X long and the First gear Kilimanjaro (cold weather) and Mesh teck (warm weather) jackets fit me pretty good, also the HT overpants work well, I haven't been able to find mesh pants that fit right yet.
There have been some other threads in the past about gear for big boys,
you could try a search or maybe somebody else can elaborate.
Hans, if you like the HT gear, try the HT Air. I've got HT pants and a Kili jacket and HT Air pants and a Kiliminjaro Air for a jacket. The Air solution is top notch - and they come with *waterproof* liners. Really. I've ridden through torrential downpours with the HT Air gear with liners and it works very very well. As good as the Kili is in the winter, the HT Air / Kili Air combo rocks.

I've got a 44" gut and the HT Air fits just fine.

http://www.newenough.com/protective_...overpants.html

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post #27 of 31 Old Jul 28th, 2008, 7:22 am
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Re: ATTGAT is cooler at 110 degrees

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmurphy165
....I had first degree burns with blisters on my shins where I felt the burning. I'm convinced it was the pressure of the slipstream pressing my jeans up against my shins thus allowing the extremely hot air to burn my shins....
116?! OH MY! The only thing I can think of that MIGHT prevent that from happening (w/o mesh kev over pants) would be special heat shielding undergarments. Maybe Galls or 5.11 tactical.

This might seem silly, BUT, I like a mock turtleneck collar (as close to 100% polyester as I can get it) under my mesh kev jacket. Keeps the heat and the jacket collar off my neck.

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #28 of 31 Old Jul 28th, 2008, 12:00 pm
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Re: ATTGAT is cooler at 110 degrees

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayjacobson
116?! OH MY! The only thing I can think of that MIGHT prevent that from happening (w/o mesh kev over pants) would be special heat shielding undergarments. Maybe Galls or 5.11 tactical.

This might seem silly, BUT, I like a mock turtleneck collar (as close to 100% polyester as I can get it) under my mesh kev jacket. Keeps the heat and the jacket collar off my neck.
Hi, Jay. Interestingly, the boots did a good job of protecting the lower shins. Burns only above the boot tops. The Sidi Vertebra come up about mid calf on me. My new *steel toe* Oxtar boots come almost to my knee so should I encounter those kind of temps again, I'm hoping the boot will protect my shins.

I'm fairly low tech under the mesh jack. I wear an ordinary sport shirt. With my beard, I find turtleneck type collars uncomfortable and regular teeshirts to hot and confining. The sport shirt collar does a good job of keeping the jacket collar away from my neck.

Hopalong Karl

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post #29 of 31 Old Aug 1st, 2008, 12:27 am
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Re: ATTGAT is cooler at 110 degrees

Can't say I've hit the 110+ mark, but have been riding in CO and UT for the past two weeks. Temps are in the 90s. ATGATT is no problem. Forgot to mention the BMW Airflow gloves. I have no idea how they work (IFM=It's Freakin' Magic), but they do. I've tried wearing shorts under the mesh pants, but for some reason it's like going Kommando.

Take care,
Chris

"Peculiar travel suggestions are dancing lessons from God" Kurt Vonnegut

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post #30 of 31 Old Aug 4th, 2008, 9:58 am
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Re: ATTGAT is cooler at 110 degrees

My "experiment" last week was similar. the heat at the outer banks was oppressive. Well into the 90's, high humidity, and no breeze (at the ocean no less, where there's ALWAYS supposed to be at least a breeze). We rode down in pants, mesh jackets, gloves, the usual for us.

Once down there, looking at a day of riding from point to point, short hops, moderate speeds (less than 50mph posted), I decided to go sans gear, except FF helmet required by law and good sense. First day in shorts and t shirt wasn't bad. Lower speeds, less distance between stops. Not bad. Kinda nice other than the thought of crashing in shorts and t shirt. My shins were getting a thorough roasting from the engine heat from the vents on the LT.

Second day was going to be longer ride, so I did put on pants to help insulate the shins. That helped. We were riding the bike as my mother was ferrying kids in the car, with the air on, a cooler of drinks, etc in the car. I shoulda taken my camel bak and realize that fully. This should be known as the day of a lot of mistakes, but God watches over fools. No crashes, but by the end of the day, I was feeling dehydrated, not sharp etc. The Tshirt was beating me pretty good. I was wishing I had my Rocket phoenix. I finally had to stop and just get off bike and rehydrate and rest, before something bad did happen.

IMO, if you can live with the risk, on short hops, little gear isn't bad. Like one poster said, you are pretty miserable at stoplights. But otherwise the full gear is more helpful. Would I do it again? Maybe, if the trips were less than 20 miles at less than 50 mph. I would and have ridden a bicycle at speeds of 35 - 40 in bicycle attire. Yes the bike weight is different, but the speeds are the same, no matter what you are on.

Would I look at a day of riding to get to farther destinations? Even at same speeds, I would wear the jacket and pants, boots, etc. And be sure to hydrate more often.

I learned a lot last week. Another great discussion. Now, if only others would believe....

Randy
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post #31 of 31 Old Aug 4th, 2008, 11:10 am
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Re: ATTGAT is cooler at 110 degrees

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracus
I've tried wearing shorts under the mesh pants, but for some reason it's like going Kommando.
Try wearing a LIGHTWEIGHT long underwear bottoms under your mesh pants. It'll be useful two ways .. It helps shield your legs from the hot/cold wind and it will soak up and dissipate your sweat. This helps cools you down while experiencing zero clammy feeling.

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/d/163_Men's-Long-Underwear-Bottoms.html

..... link sent serves only as examples ......
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