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post #1 of 22 Old May 31st, 2008, 10:21 pm Thread Starter
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Helmet crash test....

Interesting thread pertaining to "Flip-up" helmets
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=347210

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post #2 of 22 Old Jun 1st, 2008, 6:53 am
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Re: Helmet crash test....

I guess it is just me but it looks like the helmet did its job. It looks like it took sever impact to the right side and the guy got a black eye out of it. From the scraping I think one of those concrete posts were involved in that scraping and breaking of the helmet. I mean impact and sliding are two different things and I don't know a full face would hold up to impact on a concrete pole any better. Everything has a breaking point.

I feel the pain of a down rider but I don't think his bitch is valid on the helmet/style.

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post #3 of 22 Old Jun 1st, 2008, 6:58 am
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Re: Helmet crash test....

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAF
I guess it is just me but it looks like the helmet did its job. It looks like it took sever impact to the right side and the guy got a black eye out of it. From the scraping I think one of those concrete posts were involved in that scraping and breaking of the helmet. I mean impact and sliding are two different things and I don't know a full face would hold up to impact on a concrete pole any better. Everything has a breaking point.

I feel the pain of a down rider but I don't think his bitch is valid on the helmet/style.
I agree...looks like the helmet did its job! He's still got a face!

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post #4 of 22 Old Jun 1st, 2008, 8:06 am
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Re: Helmet crash test....

I'm not an engineer, but it seems to me that the purpose of a helmet is to absorb as much impact as possible while protecting one's head. To do this the helmet must crumple and literally self destruct. For supporting evidence take a look at what happens to race cars when they hit the walls. If the helmet doesn't collapse then all of that energy is transferred to the skull and its contents, that is; your brain. Now your brain is a gelatinous mass of about three pounds suspended inside your skull. Without the energy absorption of the helmet collapsing that 3 pound mass is going to get violently shaken. Thus resulting in patients being in what doctors refer to as, "a permanent vegetative state."

IMHO - I'd be sending a letter of thanks to Schuberth.

'nuff said,
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post #5 of 22 Old Jun 1st, 2008, 8:48 am
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Re: Helmet crash test....

Well, technically, I guess the helmet did its' job--the rider is alive with relatively minor injuries. I would PREFER that the helmet stay in tact, however.

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #6 of 22 Old Jun 1st, 2008, 8:52 am
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Re: Helmet crash test....

So now the guy is going to wear a full face Arai instead - one of the least safe helmets on the market? You would think after surviving this he would spend some time doing research instead of just tossing the dice.

There IS a pecking order in terms of helmet design, and a flip up is marginally better than an open face...

... for him to blame Schuberth for his misfortune is ludicrous - its always someone else's fault!

He's damn lucky to be alive. If you perform an unscheduled landing on a motorcycle guess what hits the ground first!
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post #7 of 22 Old Jun 1st, 2008, 9:23 am
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Re: Helmet crash test....

Ron,

How do you know that the Arai is one of the least safe? Just curious since I would like to find a new helmet. I'd like to get the safest one possible that will fit my LARGE head.

Thanks,
Kevin

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post #8 of 22 Old Jun 1st, 2008, 9:35 am
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Re: Helmet crash test....

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevincook
Ron,

How do you know that the Arai is one of the least safe? Just curious since I would like to find a new helmet. I'd like to get the safest one possible that will fit my LARGE head.

Thanks,
Kevin
This article is lengthy, but worthwhile reading. Near the end you'll see the "rankings" in terms of G-force transmitted to your head. Lower numbers are better - much, much better. While there is certainly plenty to debate I think this is the most rational analysis ever published.

It requires reading the entire article to understand what is going on, but the bottom line is that most helmets are not soft enough and price/brand has nothing to do with how well a helmet protects your noggin.

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/ge...iew/index.html

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post #9 of 22 Old Jun 1st, 2008, 9:54 am
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Helmet crash test

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonKMiller
....price/brand has nothing to do with how well a helmet protects your noggin....
So, Ron, if I'm understanding the article, I could have gotten a $100 Z1R and gotten BETTER protection than my $550 Arai?

For some reason I'm feeling like a bigger moron than usual.

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #10 of 22 Old Jun 1st, 2008, 10:01 am
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Re: Helmet crash test

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayjacobson
So, Ron, if I'm understanding the article, I could have gotten a $100 Z1R and gotten BETTER protection than my $550 Arai?

For some reason I'm feeling like a bigger moron than usual.
I'm right in the retard line with you Jay - you'll never guess what it sitting on top of my seat. (at least I didn't pay $550.00!)

I'm probably going to go with a new Schuberth, I've got a good friend in Germany that can get me one at a fairly decent price and ship it over as a "birthday present".

My wife DOES have a brand new Scorpion - but then again she's the only one in the family with any brains worth protecting in the first place!


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post #11 of 22 Old Jun 1st, 2008, 10:02 am Thread Starter
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Re: Helmet crash test

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayjacobson
So, Ron, if I'm understanding the article, I could have gotten a $100 Z1R and gotten BETTER protection than my $550 Arai?

For some reason I'm feeling like a bigger moron than usual.
If you have a $10.00 head wear a $10.00 helmet I wonder how many of the people involved in that testing are wearing "plastic" helmets? I do agree that the Snell standards are a little off.

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post #12 of 22 Old Jun 1st, 2008, 10:17 am
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Re: Helmet crash test

This Schuberth has my attention - I've always felt that the limited peripheral vision of a full face is a real negative, and after a few hours in the saddle I always feel like I'm living inside a tunnel...

I've NEVER liked wearing a full face helmet, yet ever since my first Bell Star at the age of 18 I've been a believer. Only landed on my face ONCE!
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post #13 of 22 Old Jun 1st, 2008, 10:30 am
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Helmet crash test

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonKMiller
....you'll never guess what it sitting on top of my seat. (at least I didn't pay $550.00!)....
Yeah I could of gotten it for 2 benny's cheaper online, BUT, the dude at my local shop did a good job of making sure the Arai XL would fit my huge, fat head! So only fair to give him the business.
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.Kinsey
If you have a $10.00 head wear a $10.00 helmet I wonder how many of the people involved in that testing are wearing "plastic" helmets? I do agree that the Snell standards are a little off.
Oh so I better find a $5.00 helmet than?! On second thought, I'll just get a salad bowl the the gay lil straps that the H-D boys wear!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #14 of 22 Old Jun 1st, 2008, 6:19 pm
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Re: Helmet crash test

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonKMiller
This Schuberth has my attention - I've always felt that the limited peripheral vision of a full face is a real negative, and after a few hours in the saddle I always feel like I'm living inside a tunnel...

I've NEVER liked wearing a full face helmet, yet ever since my first Bell Star at the age of 18 I've been a believer. Only landed on my face ONCE!
Ron if you can ever source that helmet. and can get two, I would love to have one!!!!

I read an article on it and it looks like a great helmet.

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post #15 of 22 Old Jun 1st, 2008, 6:28 pm
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Re: Helmet crash test

He also had the original Schuberth Concept, not the C2. Schuberth changed the chin bar and the locking mechanism significantly. Much more secure, with a positive lock indicator.


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post #16 of 22 Old Jun 1st, 2008, 7:04 pm
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Re: Helmet crash test

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAF
Ron if you can ever source that helmet. and can get two, I would love to have one!!!!

I read an article on it and it looks like a great helmet.
Get ready to set your American Express on fire. It looks like the cost is going to be - gulp - about $700.00.



My friend Kurt says that they are cheaper in Canada - and my other friend "Herman the German" in Toronto is going to check into them for me...

The only big problem - as usual - is making sure it fits right, and I've never bought a helmet without trying it on first.

Big issue when you're a fat head like me.

It still looks like a compromise ... I doubt if it comes close to the strength of a dedicated full face.


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post #17 of 22 Old Jun 1st, 2008, 7:55 pm
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Re: Helmet crash test....

I take a black eye, +1 on the helmet.............

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post #18 of 22 Old Jun 1st, 2008, 8:06 pm
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Re: Helmet crash test....

Ya reckon there's a reason all the pro guys wear full face all the time?


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post #19 of 22 Old Jun 1st, 2008, 8:56 pm
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Re: Helmet crash test

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonKMiller
Get ready to set your American Express on fire. It looks like the cost is going to be - gulp - about $700.00.



My friend Kurt says that they are cheaper in Canada - and my other friend "Herman the German" in Toronto is going to check into them for me...

The only big problem - as usual - is making sure it fits right, and I've never bought a helmet without trying it on first.

Big issue when you're a fat head like me.

It still looks like a compromise ... I doubt if it comes close to the strength of a dedicated full face.
I ain't scared

Seems I did read in the article and it was Canadian related or referenced.

As far as compromise and it's protection factor, The chin piece/bar is supposed to be very strong and approach and exceed flips in protection.
On Topic: we can see from the photos that it is very obvious a chin strike was involved somewhere in that tumble. I am not oblivious to that, or those ugly % strike/area Anatomy Charts that some guy posts and scares the crap out of me

As you, I can not wear a full face for any length of time, and as you said vision sucks in a lot of them. So to me a trade off, more vision area for less protection. At 51 I still am betting my vision may lesson my need for the protection.

Sizing, I have a Nolan flip for winter and a HJC full face for my son and they are both the same size and fit well. I must be lucky. I think I will need to just go try on a open face, as I have never worn one and am not sure how it should feel/fit.

Oh and we will need to source DOT stickers as they exceed DOT but do not carry a sticker.

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post #20 of 22 Old Jun 1st, 2008, 10:16 pm
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Re: Helmet crash test....

Intersting picture. Funny thing about dissipating force. That which gets the the job of absorbing energy has to put it somewhere. (Which is why we are supposed to replace helmets that get bumped hard.) Looks like a bit when to the black eye and the rest went off into the structure of the helmet. Yes, the helmet was broken apart by the force of the impact, but it did not, from the look of things, transmit the force to the head, which is what the helmet is there for.

I guess we will never know if a full face helmet would have been better or worse.

But I sure am glad he came through it.

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post #21 of 22 Old Jun 2nd, 2008, 10:06 am
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Re: Helmet crash test....

Sometimes it doesn't make any difference if you helmet full face or a flip up . A Friend of mine , ... who use to race professional dirt track , was practicing ice racing one day . He was out with a few other guys , Jay Springsteen was one of them ..anyway ... He was wearing a full face helmet , when someone ended up stopped in a corner . My friend comes tarrying around the turn , and sees the guy right in his path . He ended up sliding in to him , and the guys foot peg when into his face shield . It caved in his skull just above his eye ,...in a sinus cavity . it took a few try's to get that to heal , ...they pack his sinus cavity with bread to hold in out ...that didn't work ... Anyway , Sometimes it's not going to matter if you helmet full face or a flip up .

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post #22 of 22 Old Jun 2nd, 2008, 11:04 am
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Re: Helmet crash test

Oh and we will need to source DOT stickers as they exceed DOT but do not carry a sticker.

I ain't scared of no DOT Cop!

(I jest loves them little white/black vinyl stick on letters you can buy in a sheet for $2.79 at your local office supply store. You can get into all kinds of trouble with 'em. . Like on the frame rail underneath my seat in the attached picture!)

I'll see what Herman comes up with... he's part of my German posse.
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