What is a 4 percenter? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 20 Old Feb 16th, 2008, 11:25 am Thread Starter
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Question What is a 4 percenter?

Okay, I'm new--I've noticed that some folks have "I'm a 4 percenter" is this a ref. to the final drive problem? Just curious...

Wade
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post #2 of 20 Old Feb 16th, 2008, 12:05 pm
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Re: What is a 4 percenter?

In short: with all of the data that has been collected here at bmwlt.com, we have estimated that the final drives were experiencing approximately a 4% failure rate. So the "4 Percenters" are those who have had a failure ... and are evidently venting. Surely it's not a brag.

I do believe that as time has passed, the failure rate has improved. Seems to me that the lion share of the failures happened on the '99 to '02 models. It also seemed that the '05 and newer models are having even more success.

For the record, my '06 GT had a failure. Then again ... BMW was experimenting with a totally sealed unit. The unit failed with 19K on the clock. I was on a cross-country trip, headed back home. BMW got it replaced the next day. You don't see me whining about it.
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post #3 of 20 Old Feb 16th, 2008, 12:40 pm Thread Starter
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Re: What is a 4 percenter?

Thanks, for your reply...and I like the odds of only 4 percent!

Wade
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post #4 of 20 Old Feb 16th, 2008, 2:59 pm
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Re: What is a 4 percenter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrmoss
Thanks, for your reply...and I like the odds of only 4 percent!
I don't know what the "accepatable ranges" are for things like this, I'm no engineer. But from what I can gather, 4% is WAY off the chart.

I'll step aside and let the pros take it from here.
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post #5 of 20 Old Feb 16th, 2008, 3:45 pm Thread Starter
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Re: What is a 4 percenter?

Well, I'm sure that it is off the charts...but I'm just happy to be here!

Wade
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post #6 of 20 Old Feb 16th, 2008, 4:17 pm
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Re: What is a 4 percenter?

A four percenter is:
1. A person who was able to get 4% financing on a new BMW.
2. A person who is only liked by 4% of this community.
3. A person who had the final drive on their bike fail.
4. A person with 4% body fat.
5. All of the above.

If you select the correct answer you win an unscheduled $800 repair bill from your local BMW dealership!!!
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post #7 of 20 Old Feb 16th, 2008, 9:19 pm
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Re: What is a 4 percenter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
In short: with all of the data that has been collected here at bmwlt.com, we have estimated that the final drives were experiencing approximately a 4% failure rate.
To expand on this briefly - the 4% was really approx 3.6% and was calculated on estimated failures thru 2002. So, imho, to be a "true" 4%er, your bike should be from model years 1999 - 2002.

Beginning w/ model year 2003 - 2007, there have been less than 5 reported LT failures on this site. Not sure how many LT's are produced each year, but the percentage of failures is probably well below 1% now (for 2003's - 2007's.

Check out this post, and read the entire thread for a fairly comprehensive report of this history:
http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showthre...20952#poststop

Ted

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post #8 of 20 Old Feb 16th, 2008, 11:41 pm
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Re: What is a 4 percenter?

Way to go Ted, now I can get a good nights sleep!! The way it is posted you would think that only 4% of them last (make that 3.6%). Think I will dream about a long trip tonight.

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post #9 of 20 Old Feb 17th, 2008, 6:51 am
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Re: What is a 4 percenter?

the way I see it is "i'll just ride the snot outa my 2000 LT' If it fails I'll get it fixed if it don't even better. What the hell it's only a state of mind for me.I have never even thought about it on a trip. Guess I'm just too busy having fun.

Stevie Shreeve
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post #10 of 20 Old Feb 17th, 2008, 7:36 am
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Re: What is a 4 percenter?

Hey All;

I see some are finally getting it. That means that 96% of us with models earlier than 2002(I have an 02 with 93000) are having a great ride.
When she breaks fix her and ride another 100K. Best bike Ive ridden in 37 years.
Enjoy the ride.



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post #11 of 20 Old Feb 17th, 2008, 9:16 am
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Re: What is a 4 percenter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by katnapinn
the way I see it is "i'll just ride the snot outa my 2000 LT' If it fails I'll get it fixed if it don't even better. What the hell it's only a state of mind for me.I have never even thought about it on a trip. Guess I'm just too busy having fun.
That's funny, I didn't know you had a mind.

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Have you
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post #12 of 20 Old Feb 17th, 2008, 4:02 pm
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Re: What is a 4 percenter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronk1200lt
A four percenter is:
1. A person who was able to get 4% financing on a new BMW.
2. A person who is only liked by 4% of this community.
3. A person who had the final drive on their bike fail.
4. A person with 4% body fat.
5. All of the above.

If you select the correct answer you win an unscheduled $800 repair bill from your local BMW dealership!!!
Near 100% of us will not fit into category # 4!

I got .9% on my 03LT

I am not sure if I know 4% of this community

No FD failure (yet)

Brett
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post #13 of 20 Old Feb 17th, 2008, 8:35 pm
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Re: What is a 4 percenter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmatson
Way to go Ted, now I can get a good nights sleep!! The way it is posted you would think that only 4% of them last (make that 3.6%). Think I will dream about a long trip tonight.
Thanks Doug - I'm just tired of some folks throwing around percentages that really do not apply anymore!

Ted

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post #14 of 20 Old Feb 18th, 2008, 8:35 pm
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Re: What is a 4 percenter?

Feel the same way!

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post #15 of 20 Old Feb 18th, 2008, 8:44 pm
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Re: What is a 4 percenter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted
Thanks Doug - I'm just tired of some folks throwing around percentages that really do not apply anymore!
It sadly still applies to those of us who have..like a K2000 LTC

That's one club I don't want to join !

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post #16 of 20 Old Feb 18th, 2008, 9:19 pm
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Re: What is a 4 percenter?

naw... a "4% er" here is 4 times the BaddA$$ as a 1% er. They take on the Germans and anyone else who "needs" a whuppin'... just for fun or to keep things going their way...

Nah... really the Reardrive failure 4% is NOT good....

...............
J.M.J...
Dcn Channing

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post #17 of 20 Old Feb 22nd, 2008, 10:35 pm
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Re: What is a 4 percenter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
.... Surely it's not a brag...
Me, me, me! (on my '00 LT).

And, of course, it is A BRAG - what did you think?

Robert in Northern NJ

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post #18 of 20 Old Feb 23rd, 2008, 2:53 am
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Re: What is a 4 percenter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted
To expand on this briefly - the 4% was really approx 3.6% and was calculated on estimated failures thru 2002. So, imho, to be a "true" 4%er, your bike should be from model years 1999 - 2002.

Beginning w/ model year 2003 - 2007, there have been less than 5 reported LT failures on this site. Not sure how many LT's are produced each year, but the percentage of failures is probably well below 1% now (for 2003's - 2007's).
The original failure rate was told to us by BMW at a CCR meeting. And that happens to roughly fit the rate we calculated based on input from this site and the total number of LT's sold at that point.

I remember failures tapering off as of the '03 bikes, but not disappearing. I also remember a rash of failures on '05 bikes with very low miles. Or was that clutches? It gets kind hard to keep all these failure modes straight after a while.

And don't forget that many of BMW's other bikes are showing the same failure at perhaps a slightly lower rate (GS's, CL's, RT's, etc.).

I think the biggest concern here is the real possibility of injury from a failure, and a secondary concern about being stranded and then being hit with a huge repair cost for many older LTs which are now far out of warranty regardless of the miles ridden.

And the fact that the new design drives on the R-bikes and slant/4 K-bikes are also showing excessive failures, albeit of a slightly different nature.

I know for a fact that BMW has lost a lot of sales over this issue alone, and a lot of long-time die-hard Beemer riders have simply given up and walked away.

Ken
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post #19 of 20 Old Feb 23rd, 2008, 10:35 am
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Exclamation In fairness... So that others may have a voice!

Finally, a way to let the 96%ers let their freak flag fly!
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post #20 of 20 Old Feb 23rd, 2008, 11:06 am
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Re: What is a 4 percenter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
For the record, my '06 GT had a failure. Then again ... BMW was experimenting with a totally sealed unit. The unit failed with 19K on the clock. I was on a cross-country trip, headed back home. BMW got it replaced the next day. You don't see me whining about it.
I'll bet you didn't have to pay for the repair either.

Bob Chapman
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