Are you ready for a Chinese built BMW motorcycle? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 57 Old Jan 6th, 2008, 8:35 pm Thread Starter
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Cool Are you ready for a Chinese built BMW motorcycle?

Cessna's new plane, the Skycatcher, is going to be 100% built in China:

November 27, 2007-

Earlier today in Beijing, China, Cessna Aircraft Company officials signed a partnership agreement with Shenyang Aircraft Corporation (SAC) to manufacture the new Model 162 SkyCatcher. Cessna will design the aircraft and handle ASTM compliance work, as well as provide on-site personnel to oversee manufacturing, quality assurance and program management. SAC will be responsible for the fabrication and assembly of the SkyCatcher.

As a professional pilot, I've always considered Cessna to be the epitome of light planes, and a brand name that meant quality made in America. Even though it is kind of the "Chevy" of airplanes it generally would take you there and back without too much worry. A new slave labor built Cessna will not be on my shopping list - no matter what the price.

Cessna caught so much grief on their corporate blog they had to shut it down. (and it is STILL shut down - I guess the best way to handle the shit is to put your head in the sand)

Can BMW be far behind? China builds a LOT of motorcycles.


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post #2 of 57 Old Jan 6th, 2008, 9:22 pm
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I dunno Ron. Can a Chinese-built rear drive be any worse?!

(tongue planted firmly in cheek...)
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post #3 of 57 Old Jan 6th, 2008, 9:28 pm
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Post BMW Quality made in China

or should I say....BMW质量中国制造

PROUD FATHER OF A MILITARY DAUGHTER !.
She's for sale
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post #4 of 57 Old Jan 6th, 2008, 11:31 pm
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post #5 of 57 Old Jan 7th, 2008, 2:23 am
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My first thought was "No Way I would fly one!"

Then I went to the Cessna web site to check it out. Bet you are gonna see a LOT of them in flight schools. Cessna is going to control the manufacture very well, with on-site people. You can bet Cessna will not let their reputation be ruined by allowing this to be a less than Cessna quality aircraft. I watched some of the videos about the plane, and it certainly is going to be a step up in comfort from the old 152s I did most of my private training in. Nice Garmin instrument panel too! Stick control instead of Wheel yoke.

After checking it out I would buy one if I wanted a nice 2 place, modern, comfortable plane, and the price is good. Just wondering now what the cost is going to be when they actually start selling them.

Just hope they don't use lead paint on it!

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post #6 of 57 Old Jan 7th, 2008, 4:32 am
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With the majority of my time being Cessna family Tricycle, Floats and Amphibious, I'm partial to the product family.

My wife's Uncle also sold airplanes for Cessna until his death a couple years ago (hit by DUI while riding his bicycle in a state park).

So, they are very special to my family

Over the years, the "cost increases" was due to "insurance" fees... or so we were told.

Next they told us, "It's due to cost of labor!"....

Now, what is the reason? No talent in America? I know people who have "applied" but cannot meet their qualifications.. to work for Cessna. What is different from American and other workers?

Or, do we support this?

How do we support it.. financially I mean, as a society? I'm open to understand...

EDIT: Who will we sue?

...............
J.M.J...
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post #7 of 57 Old Jan 7th, 2008, 5:26 am
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It's only a matter of time. It will be a moot point when they are all built in China (or other low cost countries). Cheaper mfg costs mean more $$ on the bottom line. Shareholders demand it and don't care. It's part of a portfolio to them, not an aircraft.

I bought a new Wesco AGM battery for the LT. Opened it up and the label said "Made In Vietnam". This 50 something did not expect to see this in my lifetime. There is no stopping it.
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post #8 of 57 Old Jan 7th, 2008, 7:24 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
I dunno Ron. Can a Chinese-built rear drive be any worse?!

(tongue planted firmly in cheek...)
I'm NOT Chinese! (and it used to be a Honda)

Speed, roadworthy trials and VIN assignment in about three weeks. Then it goes up for spring auction for a local women's shelter.

Film at eleven.


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post #9 of 57 Old Jan 7th, 2008, 7:31 am Thread Starter
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"EDIT: Who will we sue?"

Good one Channing!!

Thank goodness we still have expertise at something that has not been out sourced...

(YET)





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post #10 of 57 Old Jan 7th, 2008, 6:15 pm
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If I can remember correctly we had the same hysteria about 'Made in Japan' in the 50s and 60s. If the Chinese government can fix the graft, corruption issues and the total disregard for the environment we may be 'substituting' a current fourth world country for the word 'Chinese' in a few decades.

We all know how good governments are at those tasks..

As a side note EuroSpeed USA will be assembling Chinese M/Cs in the US about 5 miles from my home in Ansonia Connecticut. I was going by the showroom last weekend and I looked into the window... If the price is right there will be lots on the road. However if I remember even a 'right priced' Yogo didn't last..

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post #11 of 57 Old Jan 7th, 2008, 7:02 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonKMiller
Thank goodness we still have expertise at something that has not been out sourced...
I can't help but think that the sue-happy mentality and exorbitant legal fees have a lot to do with why certain things end up being out sourced . . .

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post #12 of 57 Old Jan 7th, 2008, 7:34 pm Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by meese
I can't help but think that the sue-happy mentality and exorbitant legal fees have a lot to do with why certain things end up being out sourced . . .
An excellent observation!

Me thinks that the resulting manufacturer's liability insurance is a rather large component of the cost of just about everything made in the US these days that flies, floats, runs on two wheels, etc....

in short, everything that is FUN.


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post #13 of 57 Old Jan 7th, 2008, 7:52 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackd
If I can remember correctly we had the same hysteria about 'Made in Japan' in the 50s and 60s. If the Chinese government can fix the graft, corruption issues and the total disregard for the environment we may be 'substituting' a current fourth world country for the word 'Chinese' in a few decades.

We all know how good governments are at those tasks..

As a side note EuroSpeed USA will be assembling Chinese M/Cs in the US about 5 miles from my home in Ansonia Connecticut. I was going by the showroom last weekend and I looked into the window... If the price is right there will be lots on the road. However if I remember even a 'right priced' Yogo didn't last..
And that country will be Viet Nam.

The Japanese innovated and actually gave a damn about quality - that's exactly why Toyota just took over Ford as the number two car company in America. That's also the reason that Mr. Honda was named in the early 80's as one of the world's most fascinating people - a "Japanese" Henry Ford.

The Chinese only care about producing cheap look alike clones as fast as they can, subjecting their laborers to sub-human working and living conditions, and paying them just barely enough money to exist on.

Oh yeah, they also want to steal as much of our
technology as they can to build better weapons.

Although the Yugo was a frequent target of late night comedians due to its notorious reliability problems, it is one of the only cars never subject to a recall.
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post #14 of 57 Old Jan 7th, 2008, 8:04 pm
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OK, so when Cessna saves a bunch on labor, will they reduce the price of their products accordingly? I'm guessing not. More quarterly dividends for the shareholders, and the executive whose idea it was will get a hefty bonus.

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post #15 of 57 Old Jan 8th, 2008, 9:30 am Thread Starter
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OK, so when Cessna saves a bunch on labor, will they reduce the price of their products accordingly? I'm guessing not. More quarterly dividends for the shareholders, and the executive whose idea it was will get a hefty bonus.
The new "Chessna" will have to be price competitive with the dozens of other new certificated "beginner" planes that are now making their way to market. My guess is that it will come in around $100K in order to gain market share rapidly - they are already WAY behind the curve.

They'll probably do quite well until the first one crashes and there is a question of engine or structural failure. Bound to happen at some point - it has happened to almost EVERY new plane on the market from the beginning of aviation.

A risky business for sure.


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post #16 of 57 Old Jan 8th, 2008, 3:31 pm
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The Chinese only care about producing cheap look alike clones as fast as they can, subjecting their laborers to sub-human working and living conditions, and paying them just barely enough money to exist on.
If my memory serves me right ... Japan started off like this too.

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post #17 of 57 Old Jan 8th, 2008, 3:44 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
I dunno Ron. Can a Chinese-built rear drive be any worse?!
It's sad to admit, but the parts couldn't be any worse than a lot of the crap German or "American" parts.

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #18 of 57 Old Jan 8th, 2008, 4:37 pm
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You Know.............

I worked (had a cup of coffee more truthfully) at Honda for a few months and seeing their management/productivity skills-it was amazing!!
Then I hear what REALLY goes on in our Steel Plants(Wheeling-Pitt) or our car assembly plants(GM) from those who work there-

It's disheartening and spells doom for our Heavy Manufacturing base!!!!

Mike
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post #19 of 57 Old Jan 8th, 2008, 5:08 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonKMiller
-----------------------------------
Although the Yugo was a frequent target of late night comedians due to its notorious reliability problems, it is one of the only cars never subject to a recall.
The Yugo had a lot of high tech frills. IT even had a heated rear window, to keep your hands warm when you were pushing it.

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post #20 of 57 Old Jan 8th, 2008, 5:10 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonKMiller
The new "Chessna" will have to be price competitive with the dozens of other new certificated "beginner" planes that are now making their way to market. My guess is that it will come in around $100K in order to gain market share rapidly - they are already WAY behind the curve.

They'll probably do quite well until the first one crashes and there is a question of engine or structural failure. Bound to happen at some point - it has happened to almost EVERY new plane on the market from the beginning of aviation.

A risky business for sure.
The engine will likely be a Continental or Lycoming O-200, so the engine reliability should not be an issue, unless Continental and Lycoming start building thise in China also!

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
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IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
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post #21 of 57 Old Jan 10th, 2008, 11:06 pm
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The plane will never get off the ground once it's painted there, to much lead!!

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post #22 of 57 Old Jan 10th, 2008, 11:40 pm
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The plane will never get off the ground once it's painted there, to much lead!!
Yes, BUT, it will LOOK GREAT on the ground FOREVER!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #23 of 57 Old Jan 11th, 2008, 7:02 am
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BMW is already using a Taiwan motor in the 450 dirtbike. It is made by Kymco. Anyone know how reliable these motors are? I think I read they were shooting for 50 HP. That will be a powerful bike.

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post #24 of 57 Old Jan 13th, 2008, 9:19 pm
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A chinese BMW? Not for me. As for Cessna, the beancounters will give a damn when Americans can no longer buy their products because their jobs went to China.
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post #25 of 57 Old Jan 14th, 2008, 4:49 am
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A chinese BMW? Not for me. As for Cessna, the beancounters will give a damn when Americans can no longer buy their products because their jobs went to China.
Yes, BUT by then it will be too late! When W-M came to town, we had a choice--and made it. So I don't wanna' hear any F'G wining when it all comes back on us.

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #26 of 57 Old Jan 14th, 2008, 8:23 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
I dunno Ron. Can a Chinese-built rear drive be any worse?!

(tongue planted firmly in cheek...)
Joe,

Don't feel bad. AutoZone is selling brakes from China loaded with copper, called Duralast. There is a ten year study out now proving that copper from brake dust is killing the San Francisco Bay. It kills the food chain. San Francisco has already banned copper use in architectural appplications such as roofing and gutters/downspouts. Some companies just do not give a damn about the USA workers or their planet. All they want is their profit margin selling cheap stuff made in low cost/low enviro knowledge markets.

Rob Nelson

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More than 132,000 (recently corrected higher) motorcycle riders have died in traffic crashes since the enactment of the Highway Safety Act of 1966 and The National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1966. Be careful out there.
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post #27 of 57 Old Jan 14th, 2008, 8:37 pm
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San Francisco has already banned copper use in architectural appplications such as roofing and gutters/downspouts.
Thats just because they were tired of people ripping it off in the middle of the night and taking it to get recycled

Neil '00 K1200LT '08 KLR
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post #28 of 57 Old Jan 15th, 2008, 5:27 am
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AutoZone is selling brakes from China loaded with copper, called Duralast.
Yea but...I heard with those one can stop on a penny.
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post #29 of 57 Old Jan 15th, 2008, 5:54 am
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I'll make sure to stay away from this fine piece of equipment.

Made in China, you know it's gotta be good.

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post #30 of 57 Old Jan 15th, 2008, 11:27 pm
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....There is a ten year study out now proving that copper from brake dust is killing the San Francisco Bay. It kills the food chain....Some companies just do not give a damn about the USA workers or their planet. All they want is their profit margin selling cheap stuff made in low cost/low enviro knowledge markets.
WOW! Autozone? Nice! If I had known, I would have ridden my brakes harder and changed them a lot more often!

Speaking of W-M, AGAIN, we had a choice when they came to town. We could have continued to patronized the corner store, where everything costs half again as much, BUT, you get 10 times the service. NO! We wanted it cheap! Who gives a F'K if it's made in China--as long as it's cheap--right?! Who gives a F'K if people are out of work and out of business, right?! Who gives a F'K about the environment, right?!

People "voted" with their wallets. We get exactly what we deserve!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #31 of 57 Old Jan 16th, 2008, 10:52 am
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Well when there is very little wallet left, what other choices are you going to make?

I cant fix all that is broken so I need to buy what I can afford to, and if that means WM,I will do what I have to to cut cost.

When I was young I drove VW, and Honda, and La Cars , and even had a Yugo I put 70,000 on with no issues. People used to ask me why I did not drive American. Well I would tell them, "How can I afford to buy something that people are being paid 28.00 an hour to put together, when I only make 10.00 and hour?"

It has not changed. There is no way to compete with foreign labor, period.

Do I like it, HELL no, but reality is I need to pay my bills. And if I want extra stuff I need to get what I can afford.

Now I do try and buy American when I can, but even that is very muddy waters now. Is it American made, American Assembled, American Manufactured?

Made in the USA is no guarantee on ANY item any longer.

I don't know how to fix it, but I do know we all have to deal with it.

The thing that really steams me is I see that because of this Mortgage and Credit crises we are in, Foreigners of all Nationality's are buying up America faster then ever. Where is that going to leave us 20 years from now?

Foreigners in our own Country? Strangers in a strange land?

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post #32 of 57 Old Jan 16th, 2008, 3:32 pm
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....When I was young I drove VW, and Honda, and La Cars , and even had a Yugo I put 70,000 on with no issues. People used to ask me why I did not drive American. Well I would tell them, "How can I afford to buy something that people are being paid 28.00 an hour to put together, when I only make 10.00 and hour?"....

The thing that really steams me is I see that because of this Mortgage and Credit crises we are in, Foreigners of all Nationality's are buying up America faster then ever. Where is that going to leave us 20 years from now?

Foreigners in our own Country? Strangers in a strange land?
Lee, for the first TWENTY YEARS that I bought motor vehicles, I DID BUY ONLY AMERICAN. Well, I spent a lot of time sitting on the side of roads waiting for tow trucks. Last year I did something that I thought I would NEVER do: I bought my FIRST Toyota. Shameful! Earlier this year, I did something that I thought I would NEVER do: I bought my FIRST Honda. Double shame!

Three years ago, I went to buy my very first M/C. I wanted to buy a H-D. But the performance (or should I say lack of it), especially the brakes, put me off. So I bought a Suzuki. When I was looking to upgrade several years later, I AGAIN wanted to buy a H-D. But, AGAIN, the performance--especially the brakes, put me off. So I bought a BMW.

Now, about that sub-prime credit NON-crises....

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #33 of 57 Old Jan 16th, 2008, 3:53 pm
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Hey boys and girls you might as well wake up and smell the tea....Everything you see today, well most everything, is built or made in China. I went into a department store this weekend at the mall looking for a cashmier sweater....Macy's , Nordstrom's, Sax.......and guess what........everyone they had was in the $195 to $300 range and made..................you guessed it, in China. You can hardly escape it. China, China, and more China. And that's not all........some time real soon, they will take over the world and cause the US to go back into the dark ages........If you have ever heard of the Winchester Theory ( the more of something you have will eventually lead you to victory over your enemy)....in our case.......sending our our jobs and allowing them to import our technology.....for free or cheap labor.

Think about it......a $25 pair of tennis shoes or sneakers as some would say, now cost over $100! but they are made in ......China where the labor laws are almost non-exhistant......You know what I call it..............the typical American GREED for the almighty dollar....except for Europe where they got smart and banded together.....now they can gang up on the dollar, drive it down, while always remembering it was that same $ that saved their asses in WWI and WWII.

Oh well, I guess I'll have to teach my grandson Chinese instead of Spanish as a second language.........except for one fact....we live in Southern California..........maybe I'll teach him English as a second language and hope he still has a chance for a job after college.

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post #34 of 57 Old Jan 16th, 2008, 4:18 pm
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....the typical American GREED for the almighty dollar....

we live in Southern California..........maybe I'll teach him English as a second language and hope he still has a chance for a job after college.
O.K., you swerved into something that I did not want to cover in my above post, due to brevity--the sub-prime mortgage NON-crises. A simple monster created by GREED! Too many people wanted way too much house--that they could in NO WAY afford--helped out by loan sharks (scam mortgage lenders). C/W, the fifth largest mortgage lender in Amerika, closed down their ENTIRE sub-prime division--and laid off 12,000 people! In a word, GREED.

Now, the monster must be killed. But, there is a lot of "collateral damage" that comes along with it. Namely, the trend toward recession.

Since Spanish is now the official language of Amerika, my boy was taught to speak it before he even knew the difference. Illegal immigration costs LOS ANGELES COUNTY OVER 1 BILLION DOLLARS ANNUALLY (that's JUST LA County). I also have "third world country" practice day with my boy. That way, he is used to, and adjusted to, Amerika as a third world country.

We have the country that we have created--and deserve!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #35 of 57 Old Jan 16th, 2008, 4:25 pm
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Funny you say that because the School District I work in may offer Chinese to go with Latin, French, and Spanish. And of course our mandated ESL(English as a Second Language) for No Child Left Behind, for our Vietnamese, Arab, Indian, Egyptian kids and we are a 1300 kid total, School District. No Busing, a walking district. I know my children would be afford all of these things in any Country around the World, NOT!!!!!!!

It is not even a Global Economy anymore, it is a Chinese Economy.

Funny thing is, it is like Matrix, we see what we see, and it really is just this big illusion. Way too late to turn back now.

We see SS saying I may not have my benefits after 35 years of paying into it, and another 12 to go. Stocks are just dumping at a ridicules amount, and Oil hitting a 100 a barrel. My heating oil delivered Monday was 3.39 a gallon.

We are in for some " Big Trouble in Little China", and what kills me is it has been forecasted by economists for a lot of years, yet it continues. Anytime you are importing more then exporting and giving breaks to the imported goods, you are getting porked big time.

I did have a bright spot today, I rode the LT to work and saved money on gas

Lee
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post #36 of 57 Old Jan 16th, 2008, 5:14 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayjacobson
O.K., you swerved into something that I did not want to cover in my above post, due to brevity--the sub-prime mortgage NON-crises. A simple monster created by GREED! Too many people wanted way too much house--that they could in NO WAY afford--helped out by loan sharks (scam mortgage lenders). C/W, the fifth largest mortgage lender in Amerika, closed down their ENTIRE sub-prime division--and laid off 12,000 people! In a word, GREED.

Now, the monster must be killed. But, there is a lot of "collateral damage" that comes along with it. Namely, the trend toward recession.

Since Spanish is now the official language of Amerika, my boy was taught to speak it before he even knew the difference. Illegal immigration costs LOS ANGELES COUNTY OVER 1 BILLION DOLLARS ANNUALLY (that's JUST LA County). I also have "third world country" practice day with my boy. That way, he is used to, and adjusted to, Amerika as a third world country.

We have the country that we have created--and deserve!
Yep "Give us your tired and poor" has a whole new cost, uhh meaning.

I was overqualified on my own salary for a 250,000.00 mortgage, even though I only wanted a very small, not much of a house in the 125,000.00 range.

Left Coast people I know you scoff and scratch your head on those numbers but here in Pennsatucky it will get you a small 3 bedroom, maybe carport/garage, and a bit of land. Location, location, location.

Anyway not my first house so I understood how it all worked and would not buy up, only down.

Yep going to be a bunch of fallout and only the working class is getting hurt.

It boggles my mind that we can spend the BILLIONS on this oil fight in the Sand, and not our fist dance there, and we have multiple dance mates there.

Yet we cant rebuild our OWN Cities after a Natural Disaster, we feed everyone but our own country, have our elderly working to pay for medicine after working all their lives to retire, have a run away heath care system, people loosing their homes after paying on them for 20-30 years only to find out the money was never paid to it, and unscrupulous LENDERS pushing young buyers in over their heads by unrealistic debt assessment, and credit so easy to get, and with the I have to have it NOW attitude, it is a disaster waiting to be repaired.

All I can say is I AM TIRED of carrying all these illegals, If you want in, come in the front gate, just like my ancestors did! Become a productive citizen, pay taxes based on your wages, get heath care, but I will too, learn to speak my language, not I yours, carry MY flag, SERVE "your" country as we had too, or did.

Just such BS, whoever said "there is no such thing as a free ride" is full of CRAP!!!!!! Or they never knew Mexico wasn't our 51st State.

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post #37 of 57 Old Jan 16th, 2008, 5:27 pm
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Yugo Recall

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Although the Yugo was a frequent target of late night comedians due to its notorious reliability problems, it is one of the only cars never subject to a recall.
The '90 and '91 GV had recalls (same issue in both models). You can see the details on any site that publishes recalls, like the one below.

http://www.carsmart.com/content/own/.../seriesid/7091
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post #38 of 57 Old Jan 16th, 2008, 6:29 pm
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Quote:
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and unscrupulous LENDERS pushing young buyers in over their heads by unrealistic debt assessment, and credit so easy to get, and with the I have to have it NOW attitude, it is a disaster waiting to be repaired.
I agree with you Lee. Everyone always asks me why I'm not getting married. I've seen way too many people go to college waste thousands of dollars and not finding a job, but get married and wonder why they aren't making any money. I just don't want to live the rest of my life pay check to pay check.

Another thing is credit cards. People can't control themselves, because it doesn't feel like they are paying when all you have to do is swipe. Every young couple thinks they have to go out to eat a few times a week.

I wish I was born about 30 years earilier. Land went for 1,000 an acre. Now no one will even think of selling for less than 9,000.

The thing about China is pretty good in my situation. They no longer want the crappy meat their country raises. They are getting the good cuts from the US.

But I do love these interest rates!!!

Neil '00 K1200LT '08 KLR
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post #39 of 57 Old Jan 16th, 2008, 9:25 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTPenguin
The '90 and '91 GV had recalls (same issue in both models). You can see the details on any site that publishes recalls, like the one below.

http://www.carsmart.com/content/own/.../seriesid/7091
I stand corrected!..


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post #40 of 57 Old Jan 18th, 2008, 10:41 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LAF
Funny you say that because the School District I work in may offer Chinese to go with Latin, French, and Spanish. And of course our mandated ESL(English as a Second Language) for No Child Left Behind, for our Vietnamese, Arab, Indian, Egyptian kids and we are a 1300 kid total, School District. No Busing, a walking district....
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAF
....whoever said "there is no such thing as a free ride" is full of CRAP!!!!!! Or they never knew Mexico wasn't our 51st State.
I want to see just one of these worthless, elected/appointed hacks, grab their balls and tell their constituents the truth, for a change! Namely, YOU CAN'T HAVE ALL THE "FREE" BIG-GOVERNMENT SOCIAL PROGRAMS THAT YOU WANT--ALL THE TIME! For one day, the "takers" will exceed the "producers!" Then what?

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #41 of 57 Old Jan 18th, 2008, 10:50 am
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Originally Posted by ironbuttwannabe
....Everyone always asks me why I'm not getting married. I've seen way too many people go to college waste thousands of dollars and not finding a job, but get married and wonder why they aren't making any money. I just don't want to live the rest of my life pay check to pay check....
Yes Neil, unless your S/O has viable skills, it's just another mouth to feed. It gets old being a human ATM machine! I say don't get married unless she makes at least twice what you make!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #42 of 57 Old Jan 18th, 2008, 5:43 pm
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Talking Answer to your question Sir

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayjacobson
.......... the "takers" will exceed the "producers!" Then what?
France.

Rob Nelson

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More than 132,000 (recently corrected higher) motorcycle riders have died in traffic crashes since the enactment of the Highway Safety Act of 1966 and The National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1966. Be careful out there.
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post #43 of 57 Old Jan 19th, 2008, 11:16 am
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France.
La, la, la, la, loli, loli, loli, loli....

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post #44 of 57 Old Feb 9th, 2008, 10:00 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayjacobson
I want to see just one of these worthless, elected/appointed hacks, grab their balls and tell their constituents the truth, for a change! Namely, YOU CAN'T HAVE ALL THE "FREE" BIG-GOVERNMENT SOCIAL PROGRAMS THAT YOU WANT--ALL THE TIME! For one day, the "takers" will exceed the "producers!" Then what?
That political hack was Ron Paul and he has been cast as a lunatic and his campaign barely got off the ground. But then he does not get $1200 haircuts or look like a used car salesman. Let us not forget its not just the exploitation of cheap labor but also the environmental activists forcing jobs from the USA. These Greenies are funding the Democrats who are also pushing global warming propaganda. I guess it is okay for China to pollute just not the USA. Is it any wonder the Chinese are are funding the Democrats. Remember the bumper sticker from the 80'S "Buy American The Job You Save May Be Your Own"?-----Rethy
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post #45 of 57 Old Feb 10th, 2008, 4:47 am
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A cessna without the 25000 dollars added premium for possible US fantacy size lawsuits would definately be of interest to me

Same would any kind or chineese airpanes that are made on licence be.

What about the engines? Will it still be powered by lycombing or continental?

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post #46 of 57 Old Feb 10th, 2008, 8:54 pm
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Let's see.....this thread is American owners of German motorcycles grousing about airplanes that will be made in China. And probably posting on computers assembled who-knows-where.

More stuff than you realize is made in Asia. I'd bet some of the parts and accessories on your BMW are sourced from Asia. I know that a heck of a lot of Harley parts are manufactured in Asia.

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post #47 of 57 Old Feb 10th, 2008, 9:25 pm
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Quote:
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Let's see.....this thread is American owners of German motorcycles grousing about airplanes that will be made in China. And probably posting on computers assembled who-knows-where.

More stuff than you realize is made in Asia. I'd bet some of the parts and accessories on your BMW are sourced from Asia. I know that a heck of a lot of Harley parts are manufactured in Asia.
I wonder if Sam's Club will add it to the business catalog?

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #48 of 57 Old Feb 10th, 2008, 9:32 pm
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I wonder if Sam's Club will add it to the business catalog?

Would well made discounted parts be a problem? I don't think so.

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post #49 of 57 Old Feb 17th, 2008, 12:42 am
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Re: Are you ready for a Chinese built BMW motorcycle?

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Would well made discounted parts be a problem? I don't think so.
Believe me W-M CAN ALWAYS find a way to screw it up!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #50 of 57 Old Feb 17th, 2008, 4:14 am
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Re: Are you ready for a Chinese built BMW motorcycle?

Right, GW is more american the Harley is

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