Another Testimonial to ATGATT - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 16 Old Nov 26th, 2007, 8:45 pm Thread Starter
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Another Testimonial to ATGATT

Greetings fellow BMW riders! A friend of mine just recently totaled his bike. Will cost him six weeks with a broken ankle. He did "well" considering that he was not wearing proper equipment. He was wearing a full helmet.

He wanted me to share his thoughts on the T/C (names/places changed to protect the innocent) so other riders might learn from his mistakes.

"On Nov 16, 2007 at around 6:30pm, I was on my way home from work. As I approached the I/S of xxxxx and xxxxx, City of San Fernando, the light turned yellow. I did not have enough time to stop w/o locking up the brakes. I was only a few feet from the I/S so I went through the yellow light.

The guy turning left did not see me and made a left turn in front of me. I hit the rear passenger Q/P and was thrown over the car. My jeans protected me from road rash on my lower body (mostly due to lack of speed). I received a half dollar sized amount of road rash on my right elbow. I broke my right ankle and severely sprained my left foot. I also have severe pain and bruising to my right hip, where I slid on the pavement.

The advice I would give to other riders is to wear proper riding gear--especially proper boots. I was wearing jeans, a T-shirt and tennis shoes. I came out of it in pretty good shape, all things considered.

Additionally, when you ride in Mexico (referring to the demographics of where he rides), if you can alto at a yellow light, do so. That way the guy that bought his D/L from the guy on the street corner (referring to the lack of licensed drivers in his riding area) won't turn left in front of you."

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #2 of 16 Old Nov 26th, 2007, 8:52 pm
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Glad your buddy survived (mostly) intact! He learned a lesson without having to put too much skin into the game.

Brian
CCR: 2008, Midway; 2011, Boise; 2012, Duluth; 2014, Chattanooga. MOA: Billings, 2015; SLC, 2017
CCR-R: 2018, Russellville
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post #3 of 16 Old Nov 26th, 2007, 9:15 pm
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Damn!

Amazing! The stories just don't end...

My 30 year old son was just out for a casual ride on his K1200S to see some friends close to home. He was rear-ended on a secondary road on Long Island. (A Hit & Run)

I've been preaching (and wearing) ATGATT since I can remember...He had on an old leather jacket, jeans, sneakers, but luckily a full face helmet. He has a New Olympia AST Jacket and Pants in the closet!

Dislocated left foot, road rash on left leg, back, and hands, usual bruises, aches and pains. He's freakin' lucky. Damn, I hate those phone calls...

J. Averill Townsend
Bloomfield Hills, MI


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post #4 of 16 Old Nov 27th, 2007, 7:55 am
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I read stuff like that and look for the "out". In this case, rider states that road rash was avoided due to slow speed. But was going too fast to stop for light? A bike will slow or stop dramatically quick if proper technique is used. Did he see the left turner waiting to bust the yellow light also? He hit the rear q/p. Couldn't have swerved at that point to avoid? ATGATT is oonly one part of a strategy to avoid crashes on the motorcycle. In this case, in my opinon, not having been there (enough qualifiers yet?), I would think more could have been done to avoid the accident.

With that said, I hope the rider heals quickly and everything works out for him. I try to learn from every accident I read or hear about and try to think what could have been done to avoid it in the first place, just as was stated, that others could learn from rider mistakes.

Randy
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post #5 of 16 Old Nov 27th, 2007, 11:15 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rando
I read stuff like that and look for the "out". In this case, rider states that road rash was avoided due to slow speed. But was going too fast to stop for light? A bike will slow or stop dramatically quick if proper technique is used. Did he see the left turner waiting to bust the yellow light also? He hit the rear q/p. Couldn't have swerved at that point to avoid? ATGATT is oonly one part of a strategy to avoid crashes on the motorcycle. In this case, in my opinon, not having been there (enough qualifiers yet?), I would think more could have been done to avoid the accident.

With that said, I hope the rider heals quickly and everything works out for him. I try to learn from every accident I read or hear about and try to think what could have been done to avoid it in the first place, just as was stated, that others could learn from rider mistakes.

Randy
His "lack of speed" statement meant he was not speeding, but doing the speed limit (35-40 mph). I think his best advice was to watch the yellow lights and stop if you can (to avoid a T/C in the first place). Of course, in our area of So Cal, you would probably be rear ended!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #6 of 16 Old Nov 28th, 2007, 8:17 am
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It is hard to say. I live in an area of only like 40,000 people in the whole county, so traffic is light, comparatively.

But yeah, at a yellow light, ya gotta be watching for someone turning left, that has been waiting there and is going to run the light also.

Randy
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post #7 of 16 Old Nov 28th, 2007, 4:49 pm
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Just the other day a motorcyclist here in town was rear-ended by a drunk woman. No helmet. Severe head trauma.

They're crucifying the woman at least.

The riders in this town are just to cool to wear helmets.
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post #8 of 16 Old Nov 28th, 2007, 10:53 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rando
It is hard to say. I live in an area of only like 40,000 people in the whole county, so traffic is light, comparatively.

But yeah, at a yellow light, ya gotta be watching for someone turning left, that has been waiting there and is going to run the light also.

Randy
WOW! I see why you call it "Mayberry," Randy. In the San Fernando Valley, er, El Valle de San Fernando (I keep forgetting that we're part of Mexico) 40,000 people is about 1 square mile!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #9 of 16 Old Nov 28th, 2007, 11:50 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayjacobson
I think his best advice was to watch the yellow lights and stop if you can
Abso-friggin-lutely!

Moved to the SF Valley in 1981 from Boston (another interesting driving demographic - i.e. "offensive driving") and learned very quickly that you do not want to run yellow lights. The streets are too wide, and the speeds are too high - all it takes is one person trying to beat the red while another driver is timing the green light and whamo!

I will stop for yellows pretty much at all costs. Besides, if you get rear-ended in SoCal, it's $ in the bank (assuming the other driver has insurance!)

Ted

Camarillo, CA
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post #10 of 16 Old Nov 29th, 2007, 12:00 am
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if they rear-end you, with any luck, they will HIGH CENTER their vehicle on the LT and not get away...

A couple of my sons work(ed) for a local "brake-r-us" company. The stories they tell of people with $2000 rims but no brakes were almost daily occurrences. So, even if you "stop" at the intersection, be ready to "leave" in a hurry.

With the new Communist Party Web Kameraz at the traffic lights, everyone's been paying more attention....

So, when I am nearing the intersection I try to be near the center of the lane and stop near the dividing line... I figure when they say "oh.. shoot..." and have to maneuver, then at least I'll be on the driver's side and he may have room to the right.... maybe.. maybe... maybe... But ALWAYS stay in FIRST gear, ready to move to clear space when you hear the guy with Bad Brakes but great rims scrreeeeeching up behind you.

...............
J.M.J...
Dcn Channing

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post #11 of 16 Old Nov 29th, 2007, 12:14 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted
....I will stop for yellows pretty much at all costs. Besides, if you get rear-ended in SoCal, it's $ in the bank (assuming the other driver has insurance!)
Yes, Ted, I would tend to agree with you. BUT, I have to say: finding ANYONE in So Cal with a VALID DL, much less insurance....Well, let's just say that you better have "uninsured motorist." Now, I won't even go into getting them to stop after they've hit you!....

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #12 of 16 Old Nov 29th, 2007, 12:40 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfell
if they rear-end you, with any luck, they will HIGH CENTER their vehicle on the LT and not get away...

A couple of my sons work(ed) for a local "brake-r-us" company. The stories they tell of people with $2000 rims but no brakes were almost daily occurrences. So, even if you "stop" at the intersection, be ready to "leave" in a hurry.

With the new Communist Party Web Kameraz at the traffic lights, everyone's been paying more attention....

So, when I am nearing the intersection I try to be near the center of the lane and stop near the dividing line... I figure when they say "oh.. shoot..." and have to maneuver, then at least I'll be on the driver's side and he may have room to the right.... maybe.. maybe... maybe... But ALWAYS stay in FIRST gear, ready to move to clear space when you hear the guy with Bad Brakes but great rims scrreeeeeching up behind you.
Aaaahhhhhhh yes, Channing! I seem to remember using those "ghetto fabulous" wheels as PC (probable cause) to talk to quite a few upstanding members of our local community. My fav is when the wheels cost $4k, but the PoS car is only worth $1k--speaking of dangerous rides!

Seeing as how I live in Kalifornia, which is the "LEFT Coast" (Socialist/Communist central), it's only proper that we have the "big brother" Kams at ALL the red lights, yes?! But look, I totally understand. We need all that extra revenue to pay for the special universal health care that the "Governator" wants--speaking of Socialism!....Or was that to pay for all the illegals draining us dry?....Whatever!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #13 of 16 Old Nov 29th, 2007, 10:29 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfell
... A couple of my sons work(ed) for a local "brake-r-us" company. The stories they tell of people with $2000 rims but no brakes were almost daily occurrences. So, even if you "stop" at the intersection, be ready to "leave" in a hurry. ...
I have never understood this. Has anyone actually been in a situation where there was an impending rear-end collision, and then risked pulling out against the red light?

How can you tell that the difference between an aggressive driver who brakes hard at the last instant vs. a real, actual, impending rear-ender? (... and do it in time to take emergency action?)

What about cross-traffic? (Yes, I assume you will try to turn out of the way, rather than pull straight forward, but that makes the emergency maneuver even harder.)
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post #14 of 16 Old Nov 29th, 2007, 11:10 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XMagnaRider
I have never understood this. Has anyone actually been in a situation where there was an impending rear-end collision, and then risked pulling out against the red light?

How can you tell that the difference between an aggressive driver who brakes hard at the last instant vs. a real, actual, impending rear-ender? (... and do it in time to take emergency action?)

What about cross-traffic? (Yes, I assume you will try to turn out of the way, rather than pull straight forward, but that makes the emergency maneuver even harder.)


My thoughts exactly.

I've often heard to be prepared, in gear, clutch in, hand on throttle ready to shoot out of someones way. I tried this for a while and it drove me nuts trying to guess if the cell phone talking, hamburg eating driver was going to get intimate with me.

Now I don't worry too much. I typically coast (in neutral) to the stop light and pulse my brake on the way down, If I'm not in the "excessive speed" range

If I'm already stopped and there is no one behind, I'll look in the mirrors and flick the brake lights.

I haven't had one instance (YET) where I've thought about dumping the clutch to save my skin.

2005 KLT "Old Blue"

Bruno the "Bugg"


Democracy will only exist until 51% of the population believes they can live off the other 49% .
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post #15 of 16 Old Nov 29th, 2007, 5:22 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XMagnaRider
I have never understood this. Has anyone actually been in a situation where there was an impending rear-end collision, and then risked pulling out against the red light?

How can you tell that the difference between an aggressive driver who brakes hard at the last instant vs. a real, actual, impending rear-ender? (... and do it in time to take emergency action?)

What about cross-traffic? (Yes, I assume you will try to turn out of the way, rather than pull straight forward, but that makes the emergency maneuver even harder.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by joegottberg
My thoughts exactly.

I've often heard to be prepared, in gear, clutch in, hand on throttle ready to shoot out of someones way. I tried this for a while and it drove me nuts trying to guess if the cell phone talking, hamburg eating driver was going to get intimate with me.

Now I don't worry too much. I typically coast (in neutral) to the stop light and pulse my brake on the way down, If I'm not in the "excessive speed" range

If I'm already stopped and there is no one behind, I'll look in the mirrors and flick the brake lights.

I haven't had one instance (YET) where I've thought about dumping the clutch to save my skin.
In theory, guys, you have 10-12 feet of pedestrian cross walk in front of you (at least at major I/S) to pull into. Throw in a few ped's, however, and you could be SOL in a hurry!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #16 of 16 Old Nov 29th, 2007, 9:39 pm
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Atgatt

Glad to hear your friend is ok. I hope he reads your post and decides to wear the brightest, protective gear he can find. You even said, or your friend said, "he didn't see me and turned left". Not judging your friend but you also indicated, "It was too late to brake or he would have locked the brakes". I have grown VERY fond of ABS features on modern bikes these days. It has saved my #$% several times.

We can all hopefully learn to be visually loud and practice our braking and swerving skills. And those of you that know me understand that I don't mean loud pipes...
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