Tucson Police to get 65 new Harleys... - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 38 Old Aug 4th, 2007, 9:51 pm Thread Starter
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Tucson Police get 65 Harleys...

http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/daily/frontpage/59059.php

...they beat out BMW and Honda because? :

"People pull up next to you and say, 'Hey, you got a Harley. That's a nice bike,' " said Officer Terry Sarabia.
"It's people friendly. People like to talk to you about your Harley. It's an ice-breaker between police and the citizens."
"When we've had them out on the street, we've had pretty positive reaction," said Motorcycle Sgt. Mary Kay Slyter. "Harley is American."

..."Many of the officers who rode each bike said they preferred the Harley because of its seating comfort, braking ability, handling and performance, Schuler said." OK, so maybe the seats ARE more comfortable....


SOOOoooo Mary Kay, I guess performance takes a back seat to public relations.. I'll bet they use Colt 38 revolvers instead of Glock 40's as well.

This could never happen in Scottsdale. it would go more like this:


"People pull up next to you and say, 'Hey, you got a Bimmer, didn't know they made motorcycles." said Officer Buffy Peters.
"It's got great performance, ABS brakes and hauls butt, perfect for catching Lhamborghinis, and is people friendly. People like to talk to you about your Bimmer since just about every one in town drives one! It's an ice-breaker between police and the citizens, and speaking of ice lets go get a couple of Cosmoplitans at the Ritz!" said officer Biff Johnson.
"When we've had them out on the street, we've had pretty positive reaction," said Buffy. "BMW is German and we need to keep our streets clear of all that inferior American iron."



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post #2 of 38 Old Aug 4th, 2007, 10:10 pm
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Good news that they still use evil motorcycles.... I guess.

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post #3 of 38 Old Aug 4th, 2007, 10:28 pm
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.."Many of the officers who rode each bike said they preferred the Harley because of its seating comfort, braking ability, handling and performance"


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post #4 of 38 Old Aug 4th, 2007, 10:37 pm
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While they're at it, they should bring back the old black and white patrol cars with the bubble gum machine on the roofs.

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post #5 of 38 Old Aug 4th, 2007, 10:49 pm
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What??????????

I like to know, who on the BMW side was the spoke's person. Our BMW's outfitted with lights and siren did not cost $23000. Also what testing did they look at were they could say the liked the brakes on the Harley better than BMW or Honda. The old Harley's had a ABS unit that takes up the one of the saddle bags. Also if you closely looked at it you would see that it was make by Nissin that makes car ABS. The 07 Harleys are eating up clutches and startes because of the 103 motor.

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post #6 of 38 Old Aug 5th, 2007, 12:46 am
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I'm also told they eat starters.

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post #7 of 38 Old Aug 5th, 2007, 1:25 am
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Beemer dude, Bikes are Beemers. Bimmers are cars or was that the point? Eh, they got it bass ackwards anyway.

Kinda makes ya wonder just what else the dept has 'evaluated'.

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post #8 of 38 Old Aug 5th, 2007, 2:10 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonKMiller
"When we've had them out on the street, we've had pretty positive reaction," said Motorcycle Sgt. Mary Kay Slyter. "Harley is American."
That must be it. The Harley's come in that lovely shade of pink that you just can't get on a Beemer.

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post #9 of 38 Old Aug 5th, 2007, 6:49 am Thread Starter
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"Beemer dude, Bikes are Beemers. Bimmers are cars or was that the point? "

Yep, hence my sarcasm.


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post #10 of 38 Old Aug 5th, 2007, 7:02 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman587
I like to know, who on the BMW side was the spoke's person. Our BMW's outfitted with lights and siren did not cost $23000. Also what testing did they look at were they could say the liked the brakes on the Harley better than BMW or Honda. The old Harley's had a ABS unit that takes up the one of the saddle bags. Also if you closely looked at it you would see that it was make by Nissin that makes car ABS. The 07 Harleys are eating up clutches and startes because of the 103 motor.
I remember recently reading a comparison that was done by (I think) the Michigan State Police regarding the Harley, BMW and Honda. It was a fairly exhaustive study and compared a lot of different parameters.

The BMW easily won hands down. If I was in charge of selling 65 motorcycles for BMW in the US market I sure as heck would have had that in my back pocket!

My best guess it that the Tucson motors felt more comfortable with the much lower (and wider) seats, since they were coming off the mid-1970's designed Kawi police 1000s - which frankly feel like a mini-bike compared to most modern street motorcycles. I hope the Tucson PD opted for the optional anti-lock brakes...


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post #11 of 38 Old Aug 5th, 2007, 8:38 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
That must be it. The Harley's come in that lovely shade of pink that you just can't get on a Beemer.
You should hear what people say about our 1200. What I like about comments are the young people (motorcyclist) that come up to you and start talking, which never happened when we had Harley's. Harley is American?? If could tear that motor down, how many pieces are really true American??

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post #12 of 38 Old Aug 5th, 2007, 8:48 am
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Do they get a discount on rear jugs ? WTF would a police force in one of the hottest parts of the country want an aircooled motorcycle that is already notorious for overheating.

Follow the money I guess, obviously some of the cash was passed under the table. IMHO.

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post #13 of 38 Old Aug 5th, 2007, 8:58 am
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Some did not do their homework.

When we had our meetings about getting motors it came down to Harleys and BMWs. Honda did not bid and sure that it would've been close with them also, but the BMW was the cheapest, not by much.

What people do not realize that Harley does not come with lights and siren. A BMW out of the box is ready to enforce. Once you add the lights and siren on the Harley, the Beemer is cheaper. Also the BMW has the longest service maintenance (6000 miles) and warranty. I was also able to talk my fleet into bidding off the motor every three years, that way the motors will have 6 months of warranty left and only ride the motors under full warranty. As long as I have been on motors, the cost start raising when motor's warranty is up.

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post #14 of 38 Old Aug 5th, 2007, 1:51 pm
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Alot of agencies buy HD because it is American. No other reason. Some will say the handling is better on the HD. What they are referring to is the slow speed handling. However, how often does a police bike go around town under 5 mph.

Many people buy HD for the image, not riding. I think it is sad when police agencies buy HD for the image. I'm not saying to not buy HD, but to fairly evaluate the bikes, and choose the best one that will do job and provide the officer with the best safety.

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post #15 of 38 Old Aug 5th, 2007, 4:21 pm Thread Starter
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Here's the comparo I talked about earlier - interesting stuff!

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ms...s_182665_7.pdf


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post #16 of 38 Old Aug 5th, 2007, 5:22 pm
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Cost of 65 new HD's for the police Dept.? $1.5mil
Cost of Maintaining 25 BMW's over 5 years? Ehh.. About the same.

Value of knowing your rear drive, slave cyl. Clutch, electrical system or ABS computer aren't going to just up and die on you? Priceless.


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post #17 of 38 Old Aug 5th, 2007, 5:40 pm
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HD cop bikes

Would be interesting to know what they actually paid for the bikes.When I worked at the Na[les.Fl HD store I helped with the bids from both the city and county.The city always bought where as the county leased.Leasing is the only way to go.Three year lease included a new bike every year with all maintanance included.Don't remember the lease fee,but it was pretty cheap.Some depts. get them for almost nothing,the dealer can depreciate the product and then bring them back in every year and sell them with very low miles on them.I've driven the new Brembo equipped bikes with ABS,very impressive,finally,they stop.
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post #18 of 38 Old Aug 5th, 2007, 7:34 pm
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Not true

Quote:
Originally Posted by KMC1
Cost of 65 new HD's for the police Dept.? $1.5mil
Cost of Maintaining 25 BMW's over 5 years? Ehh.. About the same.

Value of knowing your rear drive, slave cyl. Clutch, electrical system or ABS computer aren't going to just up and die on you? Priceless.

Ride them for three and sell, only paid for maintenance.

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post #19 of 38 Old Aug 5th, 2007, 7:37 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptRich
Would be interesting to know what they actually paid for the bikes.When I worked at the Na[les.Fl HD store I helped with the bids from both the city and county.The city always bought where as the county leased.Leasing is the only way to go.Three year lease included a new bike every year with all maintanance included.Don't remember the lease fee,but it was pretty cheap.Some depts. get them for almost nothing,the dealer can depreciate the product and then bring them back in every year and sell them with very low miles on them.I've driven the new Brembo equipped bikes with ABS,very impressive,finally,they stop.
Leasing cost more than buying if you do it for 10 years. Does the lease include the lights?? If not than you are putting old lights on a new motor every year to two years whatever the lease is. After about 5 years you will need new lights and light package on HD was about $4000. When put on paper, buying and selling about three years was the cheapest and BMW won out.

Also which must be considered in what brand is service. Our BMW dealer will drop everything if a motor comes with a minor problem. I know that one time a motor need brakes and it was done in an hour.

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post #20 of 38 Old Aug 6th, 2007, 1:43 am
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I actually like Harley's for what they are, but whoever said they liked the brakes must have ridden an upgraded model or are being payed off because the stock brakes blow.

I was riding out in Reno last year on several new 06's and really found the HP lacking on the HD when riding two up with my petite passenger when trying to pass the big trucks and such on the interstate. The Harley had a fun presence on the road and had it not been lacking in some key areas I would have bought one.

Over the month I also rode several DUC's, (nice wow factor but wore me out too quickly with the amount of road I felt through the bars and shorter wheel base), Triumph's (liked the nostalgia aspect but something wasn't for me and they were lacking for 2 up riding), Honda's, (the GW surprised me with its power and nimbleness but I felt too removed from the road, it seemed cheap next to the LT, and my SO didn't care for it at all compared to the other bikes), I tried to rent some other Japanese bikes but the rudeness of the dealers turned me off, and of course I road several of the BMW's (the part I disliked most about these were trying to pick a favorite to handle all of my needs).

When Harley comes out with a model that doesn't require a bunch of mods for me to be happy with given the price, (increased HP, better braking, auto adjusting windshield, wheels that aren't solid so I'm not getting blown around from cross winds), I'll probably pick up some sort of HD cruiser for the stables. I had heard some nice changes where happening in 08' and can't wait to see what's coming down the road.

I've owned many models and brands of bikes over my 31 years of riding and have never understood the brand bashers. I enjoy honest reviews, but disdain blind bashing based on what someone is riding.

I know there are those out there in many camps with elitist attitudes that are quick to throw a jibe at another rider for not riding what they consider worthy, whether that be a Harley, rice rocket, BMW, some classic, or whatever, and I find those who would slander someone in this manner to have lost the spirit of the brotherhood and it bothers me when I read posts reflecting that mentality among our own ranks. It's not good taste to criticize in this manner and I discourage it as it only makes us look thuggish and close minded. While I have seen it in other threads I'm glad to see it's not prevalent here. Cheers.

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Last edited by Seattle; Aug 6th, 2007 at 1:49 am.
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post #21 of 38 Old Aug 6th, 2007, 8:53 am
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I wished I could have one of each . Love most all of them!
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post #22 of 38 Old Aug 6th, 2007, 10:13 am
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gawd thats funny!

Cause it's the truth!! Much funnier than fiction...


"This could never happen in Scottsdale. it would go more like this:


"People pull up next to you and say, 'Hey, you got a Bimmer, didn't know they made motorcycles." said Officer Buffy Peters.
"It's got great performance, ABS brakes and hauls butt, perfect for catching Lhamborghinis, and is people friendly. People like to talk to you about your Bimmer since just about every one in town drives one! It's an ice-breaker between police and the citizens, and speaking of ice lets go get a couple of Cosmoplitans at the Ritz!" said officer Biff Johnson.
"When we've had them out on the street, we've had pretty positive reaction," said Buffy. "BMW is German and we need to keep our streets clear of all that inferior American iron." "
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post #23 of 38 Old Aug 6th, 2007, 11:50 am
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Good for Tucson....Keep those bucks here in good ol USA
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post #24 of 38 Old Aug 6th, 2007, 12:56 pm
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I sure hope they don't experience the famous Harley "tank slapper" in a high speed chase. Several LEOs paid with their life for this design defect. From personal experience, it is definitely a laundry generating exercise I never want to experience again. I have spent considerable funds with True Track and Traxxion replacement front forks trying to remedy this issue on my Classic.

I wish them lots of luck!

I have seen the LEO's bikes in Scottsdale (R1150RT police) and some have had the left cylinder heads chewed up when the officer is forced into the center concrete barrier by an oblivious car/truck driver. One lady officer stated that she does not ride a civilian bike because these incidents happen even with the red lights going, so a plain bike has much less chance.
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post #25 of 38 Old Aug 6th, 2007, 3:28 pm
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Cool

why would the powers to be even consider buying a air cooled motorcycle for police duty in one of the hottest cities in the country? them suckers will barbecue themselves. can you say kickback.
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post #26 of 38 Old Aug 6th, 2007, 5:53 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danbrown
why would the powers to be even consider buying a air cooled motorcycle for police duty in one of the hottest cities in the country? them suckers will barbecue themselves. can you say kickback.
Tucson hot? Nah....

Heck, the high today has only been 76 during the heat of the afternoon, where it's 95 currently in Statesville!!

(and believe me you'll NEVER EVER see this again on August 6th)

Wait until those poor bastards are out sitting in traffic like this past July when it hit 113F, the sun is directly overhead, the pavement temperature is around 160F - and their cojones are sitting directly over the top of the rear cylinder on the 103. Makes me want to sing "Chestnuts roasting on an open fire".

I have a VERY good idea where 65 seat orders are going to be coming from in the near future. Hmmm, maybe we should just start producing Kevlar underwear!

I'll bet they test drove 'em during the winter.


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post #27 of 38 Old Aug 6th, 2007, 6:01 pm
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Notes from a motor officer

1st things 1st, I love Harleys, but as previously posted they are what they are. I trained on a road king police and thats what we still ride today. We just were looking to buy 4 new bikes after leasing for the last 8 years. My fellow motor officers and I (10 of us) all asked to consider at least one alternate brand for comparison (3 HD's and 1 Honda or BMW). We included all of the Michigan State Police materials and handed it in to the SGT who didnt even smile when he said he already ordered 4 HD's and as long as he had anything to say about it, HD will be the brand at our PD. So there you have it, common sense has no place in a government agency. I just shrug my shoulders and laugh at the close mindedness of some people.

I am not all that dissapointed because the HD's have done well for us in the past and I am very comfortable w/ the bike. It is not the best bike, but thats what the message to the poublic will be. I find it funny that Police agencies in the 80's finally started considering firearms made by non-US companies (Beretta, Glock, Sig...), and were thrilled at the high quality, but still cant update their fleet.

I suppose being only 90 miles from Milwaukee has an influence, but I still am dissapointed and my fellow motor officers are simply waiting for certain people to retire before anything else is considered.

BTW the HD craze is full-on w/ the local politicians. You cant them to listen to anything that isnt HD so if the costs are even close HD is going to win out.

Tom
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post #28 of 38 Old Aug 6th, 2007, 6:47 pm
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Happened to us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ahpd1992
1st things 1st, I love Harleys, but as previously posted they are what they are. I trained on a road king police and thats what we still ride today. We just were looking to buy 4 new bikes after leasing for the last 8 years. My fellow motor officers and I (10 of us) all asked to consider at least one alternate brand for comparison (3 HD's and 1 Honda or BMW). We included all of the Michigan State Police materials and handed it in to the SGT who didnt even smile when he said he already ordered 4 HD's and as long as he had anything to say about it, HD will be the brand at our PD. So there you have it, common sense has no place in a government agency. I just shrug my shoulders and laugh at the close mindedness of some people.

I am not all that dissapointed because the HD's have done well for us in the past and I am very comfortable w/ the bike. It is not the best bike, but thats what the message to the poublic will be. I find it funny that Police agencies in the 80's finally started considering firearms made by non-US companies (Beretta, Glock, Sig...), and were thrilled at the high quality, but still cant update their fleet.

I suppose being only 90 miles from Milwaukee has an influence, but I still am dissapointed and my fellow motor officers are simply waiting for certain people to retire before anything else is considered.

BTW the HD craze is full-on w/ the local politicians. You cant them to listen to anything that isnt HD so if the costs are even close HD is going to win out.

Tom

We had that happen to us, but us motors spoke out. We also were bullied into riding HDs, but lucky our chain and fleet came to their senses.

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post #29 of 38 Old Aug 6th, 2007, 7:55 pm
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post #30 of 38 Old Aug 6th, 2007, 9:28 pm
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Air Cooled?

Are not R1150RTP's also air cooled?
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post #31 of 38 Old Aug 6th, 2007, 10:17 pm
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The Christmas carol "Roasting Nuts over an Open Fire" comes to mind riding my Harleys during the summer months in Arizona.
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post #32 of 38 Old Aug 6th, 2007, 11:19 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by switz
The Christmas carol "Roasting Nuts over an Open Fire" comes to mind riding my Harleys during the summer months in Arizona.
I am now OFFICIALLY highjacking my own thread:

Whoa there Bing Crosby breath - wait just a cotton pickin' minute.

We gotta' get our nuts straightened out here, and this reminds me of an old bar pickup gig I used (with limited success) when I was but a young and crazy buck - and in the hunt during the early 70's, and yes, I admit it: riding an AMF Sportster. Dang, I miss those times - except for the music - and the Sportster.

If you're easily offended stop reading right now 'cause I really don't care if you aren't into ribald humor and don't need any politically correct nannies harassing me. ...and you know who you are.

ME: I'm really into intelligent women, and wonder if you would like to take
a simple and quick IQ test to see if we're simpatico?
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ME: OK, here we go.
You got nuts on a wall, whaddya' got??
HER: ... errr ...Walnuts!
ME: RIGHT! Very good!


ME: You got nuts on your chest, whaddya' got?
HER: ...Chestnuts! Tee HEE! This is fun!!
ME: RIGHT AGAIN - you're doin' just great!!

ME: You got nuts on your chin, whaddya' got:?
HER: ummm ... Chinuts?? ..... right???
ME: Chinuts?? What the hell are Chinuts?? NO, no, NO - you've got my **** in your mouth!


(I got slapped ALOT) OR......

and now, back to your regular scheduled programming.



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post #33 of 38 Old Aug 7th, 2007, 7:17 am
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R1150rtp's

[QUOTE=CaptRich]Are not R1150RTP's also air cooled?[/QUOTE
R1150RTP's are oil & air cooled. the oil lubes the engine, is sprayed on the underside of pistons,ect then run through a oil cooler (radiator) on the front of bike. i have heard it said that oil is a better cooling medium than water.
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post #34 of 38 Old Aug 7th, 2007, 8:15 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptRich
Are not R1150RTP's also air cooled?
I believe the RTP's have a fan installed behind the oil cooler to help cool them while not moving.

Fred Jewell
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post #35 of 38 Old Aug 7th, 2007, 9:57 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gr8fulfred
I believe the RTP's have a fan installed behind the oil cooler to help cool them while not moving.
There are no cooling fans on RTP's.

We did install some cooling fans years ago on the 1100RTP's if the agency requested it, but it isn't necessary any more.

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post #36 of 38 Old Aug 8th, 2007, 3:01 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedhudson
There are no cooling fans on RTP's.

We did install some cooling fans years ago on the 1100RTP's if the agency requested it, but it isn't necessary any more.
Aha, that's where I saw them. Thanks Ted

Fred Jewell
No longer president, River City Beemers
2009 R1200RT - Silver


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post #37 of 38 Old Aug 9th, 2007, 8:00 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonKMiller
....SOOOoooo Mary Kay, I guess performance takes a back seat to public relations....I'll bet they use Colt 38 revolvers instead of Glock 40's as well....
Hey, Ron, you don't think that the "chick logic" is tossed out the window cause she puts on a uniform, do you?

BTW, just so you know: Mary Kay and her pink ass weighs about 300 pounds and is 7 feet tall!

Actually, they were just trying the friendly retro thing. I went retro 7 years ago--BACK to a .45. We spent millions of taxpayer dollars in the eighties and nineties on NATO bullshit caliber weapons. Why not just stick with what workered?! Funny how newer isn't always better!
Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman587
Ride them for three and sell, only paid for maintenance.
You're so right! The CHP keeps the CVPI for 75k! That's it; done; gone; sold off; relagated to the trash heap where it belongs! BUT, we try and drive them until the wheels fall off. Which for a piece of crap like the CV, isn't much after 75k. Why would you want an emergency vehicle that IS NOT reliable in an emergency?!
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonKMiller
....We gotta' get our nuts straightened out here....If you're easily offended stop reading right now 'cause I really don't care if you aren't into ribald humor and don't need any politically correct nannies harassing me....and you know who you are....
Careful, Ron. Some of the moderators are the panty wadders in chief!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #38 of 38 Old Aug 9th, 2007, 10:16 am
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They do have cooling fans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedhudson
There are no cooling fans on RTP's.

We did install some cooling fans years ago on the 1100RTP's if the agency requested it, but it isn't necessary any more.

Just checked. My 2007 RTP sitting in the garage has a cooling fan. And my 2002 had cooling fans too.

John
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