analysis of a crash - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 14 Old Jul 18th, 2007, 2:55 pm Thread Starter
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analysis of a crash

Being the safety officer for a club and an Abate chapter I am continually trying to come up with notions that will educate us all on how to ride more safely. It has occurred to me that when someone is involved in a crash we ask, "is he OK, is the bike OK" and that is about it. We don't force the issue, asking about details and what they could have done to help prevent it. We don't call them on the fact that they contributed to the crash. (Notice the word accident has not been used, there is no such thing as an accident. Accident implies that no one is at fault.)

To the point ... I am wondering if it would be a good idea to set up a club discussion in one of our meeting to analyse our mistakes. OKOK everyone's ego is going to get melted a bit, but if we can learn something and save some road rash isn't it worth a bruised ego.

Perhaps a forum discussion on how we could analyze crashes would be of interest and help me to implement or not implement the idea.

I am not interested in re-hashing any particular traffic mishap here but maybe we could talk about the structure of how I could put together a panel ...or ...??

This will also be posted on other forums.

Sam Jones
2007 BMW R1200RT
& 11 other Motorcycles <I am not brand religious.>
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post #2 of 14 Old Jul 18th, 2007, 3:02 pm
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Sam, I am right with you on this one. I do not appreciate the terms "accident" or "get-off" at all. I think CRASH is much more appropriate. I crashed back in '95, and haven't since. I learned a LOT in 5 seconds. And for the record, that crash was ALL MY FAULT. I get sick-n-tired of riders blaming everyone and everything but themselves.
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post #3 of 14 Old Jul 18th, 2007, 3:15 pm
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Sam,

Have you seen "face plants" at the adv rider site?

Shortcut to: http://www.advrider.com/forums/forum...sprune=30&f=17

I enjoy this site even though some of the contributions may get a bit whacky.

Rob Nelson

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More than 132,000 (recently corrected higher) motorcycle riders have died in traffic crashes since the enactment of the Highway Safety Act of 1966 and The National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1966. Be careful out there.
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post #4 of 14 Old Jul 18th, 2007, 3:42 pm
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NOW YOU DID IT ROB!!! You linked a respectable guy over to 'THE DARK SIDE'!
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post #5 of 14 Old Jul 19th, 2007, 7:55 am
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I tend to analyze every close call and my one crash (to this point) a lot. For anyone that will listen. Not sure how it would work in a club setting, but the individual sure needs to think it thru and analyze what happened. Yes I contributed to my own crash and have made adjustments to my riding style. Having hit a car followed by the pavement and several months of rehab, I do NOT want to go thru that again.

I think it's a great idea. Try it and see how it works. Maybe do a little at a time, so folks don;t get bored or overly annoyed by it. I think it's a great tool for learning. Maybe have a different member be the "focus" each time and let it develop into a group discussion for 5 - 10 minutes. Let them volunteer, since some folks may not be too willing to talk about it if it was very bad. If someone already is willing to talk, that would be a great person to start with. Keep it moderated and civil and calm and positive.

I'd be more than willing, if I were part of a club. I've "what ifffed" my crash to death, so to speak. All for someone to learn from my mistake.

Great idea; hope it works for you.
Randy
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post #6 of 14 Old Jul 19th, 2007, 11:46 am Thread Starter
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analysis of a crash

Thanks for the comments. From this posting and other forums I have come up with a couple of ideas.
Like the military I can handle the analysis of a crash as a de-briefing.
Like the Hurt report I can dissect an incident and make the information known to all.
To glean as much information as possible, like Kinsey, I should keep people anonymous and keep their responses in confidence.
And when presented in front of a meeting I should moderate it closely and keep the subject on target.

Again, Thanks for the comments.

Sam Jones
2007 BMW R1200RT
& 11 other Motorcycles <I am not brand religious.>
Life Member of AMA HOG ABATE NRA
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post #7 of 14 Old Jul 21st, 2007, 4:39 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebjones906
Being the safety officer for a club and an Abate chapter I am continually trying to come up with notions that will educate us all on how to ride more safely. It has occurred to me that when someone is involved in a crash we ask, "is he OK, is the bike OK" and that is about it. We don't force the issue, asking about details and what they could have done to help prevent it. We don't call them on the fact that they contributed to the crash. (Notice the word accident has not been used, there is no such thing as an accident. Accident implies that no one is at fault.)....
Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
Sam, I am right with you on this one. I do not appreciate the terms "accident" or "get-off" at all. I think CRASH is much more appropriate. I crashed back in '95, and haven't since. I learned a LOT in 5 seconds. And for the record, that crash was ALL MY FAULT. I get sick-n-tired of riders blaming everyone and everything but themselves.
Yes, guys, I'm with MADD on this one. A little analysis of a "crash" will reveal that it is almost always no accident--but more of a certainty!
Quote:
Originally Posted by rando
I tend to analyze every close call and my one crash (to this point) a lot. For anyone that will listen. Not sure how it would work in a club setting, but the individual sure needs to think it thru and analyze what happened. Yes I contributed to my own crash and have made adjustments to my riding style. Having hit a car followed by the pavement and several months of rehab, I do NOT want to go thru that again.
+ 1. Ight!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #8 of 14 Old Jul 21st, 2007, 10:40 am
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analysis of a crash

Sounds like a good concept. I'd like to see it in action.

To encourage participation, have people write down the details of their crash at the beginning of the session. Near the end, have them trade the details with someone else for analysis (nothing like your peers checking your work). Using the information that they just learned, have them write a an analysis response to the crash details.

The suggestion that I have to keep the session moving:

Tell people up front that "We are dissecting crashes and in order to get you all of the information, we don't have time for you to interject during the presentation."

Tim Barstow

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post #9 of 14 Old Jul 21st, 2007, 11:31 am
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Need a Crash Forum

The Naval Aviation News Magazine had "Grampaw Pettibone", who would analyze aircraft "events".

http://www.history.navy.mil/nan/gramps/grampshome.htm

The common theme was not paying attention to the situation, or not respecting the potential dangers in a situation.

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post #10 of 14 Old Jul 21st, 2007, 7:21 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbarstow
Sounds like a good concept. I'd like to see it in action....
Well we have had a similar concept with "Droppers Anonymous" (D/A).

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #11 of 14 Old Aug 3rd, 2007, 9:18 pm
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Crash analysis

I like the ideal constructive critisiom is a good thing . I remember someone
telling me when I first started riding the day you think you,ve mastered the ride, your in for a rude awakeing !
When do you plan on starting this ?
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post #12 of 14 Old Aug 4th, 2007, 3:53 am
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I like the ideal constructive critisiom is a good thing . I remember someone telling me when I first started riding the day you think you' ve mastered the ride, your in for a rude awakeing !
When do you plan on starting this ?
Speaking of crash analysis guys: how about that jetliner off the end of the runway in Brazil? Preliminary on that is looking UGLY!

Did I just hijack another thread?

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #13 of 14 Old Aug 4th, 2007, 2:46 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayjacobson
Speaking of crash analysis guys: how about that jetliner off the end of the runway in Brazil? Preliminary on that is looking UGLY!

Did I just hijack another thread?
Jay,

For years I was in the aircraft brake business. Knowing what I have seen, that flight was doomed. Heavy bird, short runway with construction, one of the thrust reversers MIA.....did you see the shot of the plane on approach VERY high above the runway. After my stint in the aircraft business, I avoid lots of certain aircraft AND certain airlines.

Back to the thread, the best thing I have learned about driving after multiple race schools is the opportunity to learn how to be better never ends.

I enjoy FACE PLANT on the ADV site.

Rob Nelson

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Grey Goose
2002 K1200LTC [now lives in Georgia]
Toscana Temptress

More than 132,000 (recently corrected higher) motorcycle riders have died in traffic crashes since the enactment of the Highway Safety Act of 1966 and The National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1966. Be careful out there.
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post #14 of 14 Old Aug 5th, 2007, 9:25 am
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Originally Posted by fas
Jay,

For years I was in the aircraft brake business. Knowing what I have seen, that flight was doomed. Heavy bird, short runway with construction, one of the thrust reversers MIA.....did you see the shot of the plane on approach VERY high above the runway. After my stint in the aircraft business, I avoid lots of certain aircraft AND certain airlines....
Also, Rob, there was something about the Black Box recordings showing a control MISTAKINGLY being in the "takeoff position." This supposedly DID NOT allow the wing flaps to be in the proper position for maximum slowing! Also, the runway was was very slick from a fresh rain. Sounds like these pilots nutted up bad!

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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